How to Join Member's Area Private Library Search Today's Topics p Login
Main Forums Discussion Tech Talk Mature Content Archives
   Nav Win
 Discussion
 The Alley
 Jose, Can You See???   [ Page: 1  2  3  ]
 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
Follow us on Facebook

 Moderated by: Ron   (Admins )

 
User Options
Format for Better Printing EMail to a Friend Not Available
Admin Print Send ECard
Passions in Poetry

Jose, Can You See???

 Post A Reply Post New Topic   Go to the Next Oldest/Previous Topic Return to Topic Page Go to the Next Newest Topic 
Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


0 posted 05-02-2006 01:43 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer


Last night I had a dream. I dreamed I sneaked into a foreign country, hid from the authorities, found work and a place to stay, thanks to some friends. Sure, I could have gone through proper channels to do it legally but who needs the hassle? Why follow rules when you don't have to? Then I demanded that the foreign government give me things like welfare, unemployment, stamps to buy food, medical attention and education for my kids. If they refused, my buddies and I marched against them in protest. We re-wrote their national anthem, omitting a lage portion of their sentences and phrases, into our own language and words, declaring it to be the anthem we would use. The government did nothing to us. The police did nothing to us. The newspapers gave us wonderful coverage. Even though our actions were illegal, even though WE were illegal, people cheered us. Was that a wonderful dream or not? Couldn't have been anything else, right?
Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 08-02-99
Posts 9130
Purgatorial Incarceration


1 posted 05-02-2006 02:37 PM       View Profile for Christopher   Email Christopher   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Christopher

you're not a criminal if you win the war...
Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


2 posted 05-02-2006 02:57 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Thank you for such an insightful comment.
Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 05-19-99
Posts 9708
Michigan, US


3 posted 05-02-2006 03:40 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

That wasn't a dream, Mike.

That was American history. Ask any Indian ...

(Which, of course, pretty much proves Chris's point, too.)
Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


4 posted 05-02-2006 06:21 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Wish I could disagree, Ron, but I can't. The Indian situation was by far the most shameful in American history. You, however, are the first to state that two wrongs don't make a right. I think that referring back a century and a half ago to make some type of correlation to the illegal immigration problem now is a real stretch...even for you and Christopher.

It does, however, allow one not to address the current issue. Let's just say what goes around comes around, pay for the sins of our forefathers, and forget about it then? Let's also tell every black to buy a good whip so that we can line up and be thrashed for the slavery days.

This is what LR refers to as the "point the finger that way" defense. I had sort of hoped to get a little input, pros and cons, concerning the illegal situation that is happening TODAY, in the news TODAY, marches and work stoppages TODAY in this world we live in TODAY. Instead I have crypticisms which would require a Caligula torture rack to stretch far enough to apply, and which you endorse as a valid point, and Indian references from the 1800's. Ah, well....at least you read and responded. That counts.
Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 08-02-99
Posts 9130
Purgatorial Incarceration


5 posted 05-02-2006 06:47 PM       View Profile for Christopher   Email Christopher   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Christopher

if you were looking for something with a little more depth, Michael, you could have presented it in a different fashion - i took this post as a sarcastic quip on curreent events... you know, since you presented it as an axiomatic dream?
iliana
Member Patricius
since 12-05-2003
Posts 13488
USA


6 posted 05-02-2006 06:57 PM       View Profile for iliana   Email iliana   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for iliana

Balladeer, that was some dream!

Now, living down here in Houston, I've developed a fair perspective on the whole thing.  I'll tell you this much.  The legal Mexican immigrants now American Citizens or American Citzens with Hispanic ancestry, for the most part, living and working here resent the illegals -- or undocumented or whatever you want to call them -- taking their jobs.  And they certainly do take their jobs.  I hired a man last year, Mexican descent and a former Navy Seal, to rebuilt my fence and gates.  His helper was anglo.  He told me he would not hire day laborers -- that it really infruiated him that the illegals came and took jobs from Citizens -- he called it "raping our country."  He hired my son for $5/hr. instead....lol.  Good deal for both of us.  
Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


7 posted 05-02-2006 08:32 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Christopher, how you could associate me with sarcastic quips is beyond me!

Yep, it was certainly tongue in cheek but very timely in such that the march was yesterday and it's major news at this time. I could have just said "What does everyone think about the illegal alien situation?" but where's the flair? Nice to know your response was not in a serious vein

Iliana....Good for him - and you - and your son! Thanks for sharing
Mysteria
Deputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Laureate
since 03-07-2001
Posts 19652
British Columbia, Canada


8 posted 05-02-2006 11:52 PM       View Profile for Mysteria   Email Mysteria   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Mysteria

Sheesh, and here I thought you had moved to Canada!  We have the same problems here.  I can't get started on it Mike, trust me you don't want to hear.
Mistletoe Angel
Deputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 5 Tours
Member Empyrean
since 12-17-2000
Posts 34089
City of Roses


9 posted 05-03-2006 02:36 AM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

Wow, we may think differently on 95% of issues, yet somehow we had the exact same footage broadcasted in our dreams here!

This is a serious issue, fathomlessly more serious than we often acknowledge. Some label this as a national security issue, which it very well is also but is not the reason a srong majority of Americans follow this immensely closely. This is all about equality, fairness, preserving our American ideals. There are many who patiently and honorably wait often months at a time for their opportunity to be answered legally, and all because someone else chooses to walk around the system self-righteously and selfishly, the individual waiting respectfully in line to pursue and live the American dream is only postponed and blockaded. That strikes me as inequality, and just wrong.

Look, I share a rare agreement with President Bush here in that it is unrealistic to deport all those who did happen to illegally traverse our borders, including those who have or are raising families and sending their children to school. I also don't agree with H.R 4437 in that it would criminalize all the immigrants and basically allow the Minutemen to head our immigration policies.

But I also don't believe those who choose to catwalk around all that we stand for ever deserve to be entitled to amnesty or any form of special treatment. If we just passively allow this conduit to keep flowing, then it'll only encourage further erosions of our ways of life, and then they'll just cry for more and more.

I don't want to sound insensitive by any means, and some can choose to call me a bigot or a racist for saying what I've said here (I heard a number of participators in the rallies claim whoever denies them their rights is racist and such), but my understanding here has nothing to do with race or class. Many in the rallies were calling for "respect". I personally believe anyone is destined and deserving of this respect if one is willing to respect the law, respect what we hold true as a nation, as a land of opportunity, and not treat it like some 4,000 mile wide grab-bag or Free Government Services Day Give-Away. This is about the respect of the law and identity as a nation, and I don't believe anyone who cheats this opportunity deserves any of it.

One thing I'd absolutely favor is instituting tough penalties for businesses that employ illegal immigrants. It's only part of the strategy to ease this situation, but that would help a lot I believe.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton

"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

Mother Teresa

serenity blaze
Member Empyrean
since 02-02-2000
Posts 28839


10 posted 05-03-2006 05:45 AM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Shrugging..

the Mexicans kicked our ass.

They worked sun up till sundown...

I really don't know what else to say.

They kicked our asses.

one addendum? I wanna know how all these Mexican warranties are gonna prove legitmate in twenty years, as promised.

In fact, I wanna know how any warranties will prove legit--including my family's?

{anybody seen my bro? I haven't. )

Nice, ain't it?

They can all kiss my unhappy ass.

I'm madder than a mudder.
SEA
Deputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 5 Tours
Moderator
Member Seraphic
since 01-18-2000
Posts 24152
with you


11 posted 05-03-2006 12:23 PM       View Profile for SEA   Email SEA   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for SEA

if they are here illegally, send them back to where they came from. Families and all...whatever, who ever is here illegally. They knew what they were doing was illeagal, they still did it. I say that letting them stay here and giving them welfare and medical, dental, unemployment and workers comp is a load of crap. They made a choice.

I have NO problem with them coming here and working and living, as long as it's done leagally.

How dare they think they can come here breaking the law then demand rights. Why don't they go fix Mexico? Why don't they rally there and CHANGE THINGS THERE!

If they used their numbers to change things there, they could do great things.

ok enough from me...
Not A Poet
Member Elite
since 11-03-1999
Posts 4427
Oklahoma, USA


12 posted 05-03-2006 01:26 PM       View Profile for Not A Poet   Email Not A Poet   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Not A Poet's Home Page   View IP for Not A Poet

They don't go change things in Mexico because they are not allowed to do that. That's a large part of the reason they came here in the first place.
Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


13 posted 05-03-2006 01:33 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Noah, Serenity and SEA....thanks you for your comment. I want to respond in detail but am a little strapped for time right now...I'll be back
SEA
Deputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 5 Tours
Moderator
Member Seraphic
since 01-18-2000
Posts 24152
with you


14 posted 05-03-2006 02:20 PM       View Profile for SEA   Email SEA   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for SEA

Pete, how does that matter? It doesn't matter to them that they are breaking our laws, what is the difference?
Not A Poet
Member Elite
since 11-03-1999
Posts 4427
Oklahoma, USA


15 posted 05-03-2006 03:50 PM       View Profile for Not A Poet   Email Not A Poet   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Not A Poet's Home Page   View IP for Not A Poet

I didn't mean to imply that it matters at all. Just an answer to that one question although I knew it was rhetorical.

You are right, they broke the law to get here and should not be rewarded for doing so.

They are a large problem and the result, or evidence, of an even larger one. Unfortunately, dealing with the problem now will probably be larger than either of the above. I'm not at all sure our politicians have what it takes to fix it. I sure as hell can't imagine that the demonstrations did much to endear their cause to the vast majority of the voting citizens though.


Paul Wilson
Deputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Elite
since 07-07-2002
Posts 4023
Between Fantasy and Reality


16 posted 05-03-2006 04:27 PM       View Profile for Paul Wilson   Email Paul Wilson   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Paul Wilson

What's worse you decide

Lazy citizens that won't work and are living off the taxes we pay to the government

or

Illegal Mexican's that are willing to work and pay their fair share

Which country did our ancestors come from?

After all the only true Americans are the American Indians.

I say if a man will work and support himself & pay his fair share his nationality or color doesn't matter.


~~To share my poems with you is to share my heart with you~~
Paul
Not A Poet
Member Elite
since 11-03-1999
Posts 4427
Oklahoma, USA


17 posted 05-03-2006 06:13 PM       View Profile for Not A Poet   Email Not A Poet   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Not A Poet's Home Page   View IP for Not A Poet

A man's nationality and color are not the question here. We truly are a nation of immigrants. There is a legal way to do it though, just as there is a legal way to earn a living. If you break the law, you should suffer the consequences.
Mandamus
Junior Member
since 06-21-2005
Posts 10


18 posted 05-03-2006 06:57 PM       View Profile for Mandamus   Email Mandamus   Edit/Delete Message     View IP for Mandamus

Yeah.  I sure wish all those French and Canadian illegal immigrants would have a greater respect for the law and go home.

I guess what I'm wondering is if this is about illegal immigrants or if it is about Mexicans.

Mandamus
Mistletoe Angel
Deputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 5 Tours
Member Empyrean
since 12-17-2000
Posts 34089
City of Roses


19 posted 05-03-2006 08:29 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

I absolutely agree as we reflect on this complex issue and our national identity, we must not forget that, truly, there are Native Americans whose home has been right here across our heartland long before Europeans ever set foot on our eastern shores.

Looking back on our nation's history, and being part-Cherokee Indian myself, my heart continues to cry and is ashamed that our truest, earliest natives were victim to widespread crimes of genocide and cultural dispersal. Though I absolutely believe we have gone a long way since those dark times like during the Andrew Jackson era, I still believe there are many instances of forced assimilation being practiced upon communities nationwide, and while I'm joyed to see Native American studies and literature growing in our universities and schools so we can grow a greater, true understanding and celebration of their beliefs and culture, it's still a small, fledgling movement.

*

Having said that, while I absolutely believe there's much more we can do in having the fullest rights and liberties of our truest natives recognized, while I believe our earliest ancestors cheated and wronged themselves just as illegal immigrants do now, it doesn't change the reality that we are a nation with established principles and ideals.

I'm all for immigration in the legal sense, for I believe we are a nation of immigrants, a cultural melting pot molded and built on diversity, and immigrants have truly brought color and inspiration to the culture and character of our national community. I myself absolutely love enjoying a nice vegetarian mole burrito and a nice tall glass of Tampoco fruit juice every Cinco De Mayo, and love celebrating the traditional beliefs and festivities in which many south of the border have held true to heart for hundreds of years.

Like I've said, my concerns on this issue have nothing to do with race or class. This is about equality, about preserving our national principles and ideals, in showing the world that anyone has an opportunity to live and lead the American dream, and it can absolutely happen if you are patient and respect our ideals. There is always a legal way about making that dream reality, and I'm all for keeping legal immigration at its current level  to see to it this opportunity endures.

But the bottom line is, there are tens of thousands who choose not to do so, and cheat opportunity merely to exploit our services and the opportunity of others. I have no sympathy for that, as it only stalls the hard-earned and deserving opportunities of others and promotes inequality, even injustice, and while I do recognize that this huge issue is also due in part to their home governments not tackling and resolving the social issues that encourage tens of thousands to migrate northward, the fact that instead of choosing to stay and challenge their local leaders and promote positive social change in their own communities, and prefer to just take advantage of some other nation's services just strikes me as selfish.

I don't want or mean to sound insensitive here by any means, but I feel there's too much at stake here, and if we allow ourselves to continue moving down this path, what value will our principles and values have, what will being the "land of opportunity" mean if anything?

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton

"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

Mother Teresa

Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


20 posted 05-03-2006 11:35 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Noah, I agree with you completely. One is torn both ways on this topic. I've lived in Latin countries for many years. I know the people, their way of life, the good and the bad. I know the poverty many live in. I've seen small children hide behind cars and bushes at outdoor cafes, waiting to run up and grab a scrap of food off a plate and run away. I've seen their eyes shine at the mention of America. Fine, some of our more illustrious alley participants may speak of how the world views America with disdain and how we have  fallen in the eyes of the world but, believe me, for average people, especially the poor, America is still THE great hope, the vision that all things are possible. They respect and appreciate the United States more than many of the Americans who live here do, those who demand based solely on their birthright. These people do not have that birthright and yet they do have the desire to work to better their lives and support their families....

...and yet there are indeed rules and laws to be followed. I don't believe the government is harsh in these rules. They do not forbid foreigners from coming in to try to better themselves. They only require that it is done orderly and properly, fill out the forms and make the request. Is that so hard to do? There are many who pay more to smugglers who promise to get them in than they would pay to apply for a green card. Illegal immigrants are here ILLEGALLY.  It is ludicrous that they can march as illegals and make demands. They have no right to make demands. As Ron has happily pointed out to me many times, right actually matters. Laws actually matter, be it sleep deprivation at Gitmo, Bush lying or coming into the country illegally. It's wrong.

There would still be a situation, though, even if every immigrant here were legal. They would still get the jobs, willing to do things others wouldn't, willing to work for less. What would be the solution to that? There is only one feasible one that I don't think we will ever see in our lifetimes. Americans who sit home with their welfare checks and food stamps, declaring they won't work for less than this or that or whatever might actually have to change their way of thinking and take these jobs, might have to stop expecting to be taken care of and begin taking care of themselves. As i said, i don't expect to see that happening. But that's a completely different situation.

As far as the immigrants are concerned, as i said, my first point is that they are here illegally. My second point is the one that makes my blood boil and that is that these people here illegally demand rights, demand governments benefits, education, medical coverage, driving privileges, etc.........and what makes my blood boil even more is that they get it.  How ludicrous can it get?  The government is saying 'You cannot be here illegally....BUT, if you manage to make it past the security we will reward you and give you benefits.' Beam me up, Scotty. I can respect someone who even sneaks into the country to better their lives or earn money to help their families but I have NO respect for those who do that and then demand to be taken care of by the American government and taxpayere dollars. They demand what their own country will not give them. Not only do they take from the funds legal citizens contribute to, they are also detrimental to the economy. Money revolves. That's how the economy works. You earn money, you spend it which goes to companies that use it to pay employees who spend it, etc, etc, etc. Right now Mexico's largest source of revenue, over even tourism, is money sent there by immigrants here, many of them illegal. This is money taken out of the country which breaks the chain of circulation our economy depends on.  My third point involves their unwillingness to learn our language, incorporate themselves into our way of life, the lack of allegiance to our flag and anthem.....but i don't  even want to get started on these points.....I could go on forever! Countries are splintered and decimated by points like these.

Can illegal immigration be stopped? Not likely. There are too many ways to get in. Can employers be stopped from hiring them? Again, not likely. Can they be stopped from receiving government aid, drivers licenses, medical benefits, education, etc.....yes, they can. We simply need a government that will do it.
Alicat
Member Elite
since 05-23-99
Posts 4277
Coastal Texas


21 posted 05-03-2006 11:42 PM       View Profile for Alicat   Email Alicat   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alicat

Several felonies have been committed, with only Illegal Entry being a misdeamnor.  The rest are federal prison felonies for anyone else apparently.  Those being falsification of federal and state documents: birth certificate, social security number and driver license.  No hablez Angles?  No problemo!  You're an American?  Up against the wall and spread em, bud!  How's that for a nice perversion of legality.  Here illegally, get a pass.  Here legally and get a Miranda recitation.

Shame not many of you were in Arizona last year during the massive sting operation against ADOT for illegal licenses.  There were many state employees who were brought up on federal charges for issuing driver licenses, state ID cards and CDLs based on falsified applications, birth certificates, social security numbers, and faked authorized presence documents for payment/favors under the table.  One crazy thing was learning of 32 foreign nationals all living out of the same PO box in San Luis.  That was listed as their residence, with the Mailboxes Inc phone number as their home number.

I hear ya Noah and understand your view, as I'm 1/8 Texas Comanche.  Howsoever, let's keep Native American issues to another thread, since if I espoused my own View that would be a thread hijack.  Trust me on this.  

Break a federal law to get here, then several federal and state laws to stay here, then demand that your demands be met or you will attempt to hold the host nation's economy hostage.  Call me silly, but that sure sounds like blackmail to me.  And as far as our National Anthem being in Spanish, I've no issue with that at all.  The Anthem has been sung in many languages.  But none of those other renditions ever changed the words to suit their own political message.  And that's what burns my butt.

By the by, most illegals don't 'pay their way' as they do not pay income taxes which fund those social/medical programs from which so many here illegally enjoy.  If paid in cash or personal check, there are no withholdings.  If paid on a false or multiple SSN, yes there's withholdings but that methodology is highly illegal.  Does anyone really believe that all identity theft is used for credit manipulation and not for illegal immigrants to have Authorized Presence?
Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 08-02-99
Posts 9130
Purgatorial Incarceration


22 posted 05-04-2006 02:17 PM       View Profile for Christopher   Email Christopher   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Christopher

For what it's worth, here's my take on your dream Michael:

Firstly, I don't believe it's such an easy issue that we can blithely take a firm stand on either side. You may discount the connection between our past and present circumstances, yet it is not only applicable, but plays a role as well.

One can form the analogy, as Ron did, to the Native Americans of the past - though I still don't believe it's that direct; where we pushed out the Native Americans by brute force, decimating their lands, their food sources, killing them by the thousands, today, this is a much more passive form of encroachment.

Another mention from the past, in regard specifically to Mexicans: we're still sitting on land that we took from them in the past as well... remember how history tells us of kicking the Mexicans out of several southern states? Perhaps this attempt is nothing other than a less violent, more subversive manner of reclamation?

A side note, before I forget - it's easy to lay down the claim that anyone opposed to allowing immigrants amnesty is prejudiced against Mexicans. This is a more narrow view than actually proclaiming prejudice: by far the largest majority of illegal (and legal, for that matter) immigrants are Mexican or Latin American nationals. When you're the poster child for a group, you're going to be the face people put up when they discuss the group. For the record, I am as opposed to amnesty for ALL groups of people, whether they be Mexican, Indian, French or Martians - too many people spend too much time in line, attempting to "do the right thing" to enter this country legally to allow those who bypass the formal, legal route, thus cheating the system and denigrating the value of those who work to the same ends.

Amnesty isn't the answer. If someone enters the country illegally, they are criminals. If the laws are changed, that too might change - but at this moment, the laws are clear on the matter; there is a right way and a wrong way to enter the country.

Sending "them" home isn't the answer either. Despite what many may like to think, we do need the immigrant labor we have here - no disrespect intended to anyone here or elsewhere, but as a society, we don't want to do the jobs that many immigrants do - we want the cush, high-paying jobs. I'm not suggesting that no natural or legal Americans will take less than a cush job, but them's the them's - how many natural Americans do you think you'll find picking strawberries on the side of the road?

My proposed solution is to go the route that buys time for those already here, allowing them to pay back taxes for the time that they've been here illegally. Force them to register for a work visa, with the same time limits requiring it to be renewed like everyone else. They would then have a proscribed period of time (I think 3 years was thrown out) to study for the citizenship exam. If they passed, they could then become American citizens. If they failed (the first time), they could have another opportunity in a year. Failing that second opportunity, they would then be deported, with harsh consequences should they be found returning illegally. In regard to those who aren't currently in the country, but would like to? They can go by the same route as everyone else has. Anyone who chooses to illegally cross our borders should be immediately deported and turned over to the authorities of their country (the exception being those seeking political asylum).

In this manner, we can bypass the whole amnesty farce, validating those who've worked to get into the country, while maintaining, for the most part, the status quo of our economic dependence on immigrant labor workers. Finally, it would send the message that, while we value people coming from outside our borders (as someone mentioned, we are a nation of immigrants), there is a correct way to go about and we will no longer brook those who choose to flaunt our laws.

Just my thoughts on the matter.
Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


23 posted 05-04-2006 06:49 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Thank you for the input, Chris.

I still believe that the American Indian comparison serves no other purpose than a "What goes around comes around" comparison and I certainly don't think it's a conspiracy to reclaim lost lands, although I'm fairly confident there was a little tongue in cheek there. They come to live a lifestyle they do not have in their own country, to earn more than they could ever earn back home and to be able to send money back to their families and loved ones.....lofty ambitions and easily obtainable. We only ask that they do it legally.

As far as the rest of your thoughts, I agree wholeheartedly and you stated them very well.  It's good to know that, even when there are small disagreements, when the big issues come around you are wise enough to agree with me completely.

(I shall now don my suit or armor and wait..)
Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 08-02-99
Posts 9130
Purgatorial Incarceration


24 posted 05-04-2006 11:30 PM       View Profile for Christopher   Email Christopher   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Christopher

aw, c'mon Michael - it's just as unlikely that i'd make a tongue-in-cheek statement as it is that you'd make a sarcastic quip!
 
 Post A Reply Post New Topic   Go to the Next Oldest/Previous Topic Return to Topic Page Go to the Next Newest Topic 
All times are ET (US) Top
  User Options
>> Discussion >> The Alley >> Jose, Can You See???   [ Page: 1  2  3  ] Format for Better Printing EMail to a Friend Not Available
Print Send ECard

 

pipTalk Home Page | Main Poetry Forums

How to Join | Member's Area / Help | Private Library | Search | Contact Us | Today's Topics | Login
Discussion | Tech Talk | Archives | Sanctuary



© Passions in Poetry and netpoets.com 1998-2013
All Poetry and Prose is copyrighted by the individual authors