How to Join Member's Area Private Library Search Today's Topics p Login
Main Forums Discussion Tech Talk Mature Content Archives
   Nav Win
 Discussion
 The Alley
 "Why We Fight"
 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
Follow us on Facebook

 Moderated by: Ron   (Admins )

 
User Options
Format for Better Printing EMail to a Friend Not Available
Admin Print Send ECard
Passions in Poetry

"Why We Fight"

 Post A Reply Post New Topic   Go to the Next Oldest/Previous Topic Return to Topic Page Go to the Next Newest Topic 
Mistletoe Angel
Deputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 5 Tours
Member Empyrean
since 12-17-2000
Posts 34089
City of Roses


0 posted 03-23-2006 06:46 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

"Is War The Real National Pasttime?"

Recently, documentary filmmaker Eugene Jarecki (who also directed "The Trials of Henry Kissinger, Quest of the Carib Canoe" and "Season of the Lifterbees") premiered a new film, "Why We Fight", which asks "whether Washington's foreign policy is overly preoccupied with the idea of military supremacy, and if the military has become too important in U.S. life."

Jarecki interviewed individuals from both sides of the spectrum in this film, which observes how since World War II, the ideals for war have continually evolved to the point that it is not immediate in understanding why it is we continue to resort to this practice. Jarecki admits that the point of filming this wasn't to find a single answer, but to facillitate dialogue, consider the issues and have a greater understanding of war throughout the last century.

In using footage of Dwight D. Eisenhower's speech concerning the rise of a "military-industrial complex" in America, like Eisenhower, Jarecki believes that an "alert and knowledgeable citizenry" is the only way to actually accost military power. While promoting the film in Montreal, he also had this to say:

"We have actually developed a great amount of collective consciousness about matters like life and death and war and peace. In 1963, 13 lone Quakers marched down Fifth Avenue to protest the oncoming war in Vietnam. Thirty million people marched around the world in advance of the Iraq war. And yet many Americans will tell you it didn't make a difference, it didn't stop the war. But they are just being impatient. This is a generation's long fight. It will be played out in our individual hearts and is ultimately about preventing the strong from abusing the weak. Hopefully Americans will be a part of the long-term fight for the dignity of people. We can't give up hope because it doesn't happen before American Idol comes on."

********************************

Two questions:

1) Why do you believe we fight? Have our ideals in why we fight changed in recent years?

2) Have you seen the film? Thoughts regarding the film?

********************************

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton


"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

Mother Teresa
Ringo
Deputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Elite
since 02-20-2003
Posts 3696
Saluting with misty eyes


1 posted 03-23-2006 11:16 PM       View Profile for Ringo   Email Ringo   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Ringo

Noah, let me ask you a question:
Why do you think we fight? I know this is going to sound confrontational, and I hope you know I truly don't mean it to; however, I see you asking all these questions about why this, and how did that, and telling us why you think we are wrong when we answer, yet I never see you answer your own questions.

To answer your question, the Marines used to have a catch phrase that was "Nobody likes to fight, but somebody has to know how." Another phrase that has been used endlessly throughout the years is: "Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." Yet another is "Bring me your... huddled masses yearning to be free." If you put these phrases together, and look at the situation in Iraq just 3 short years ago, then you will understand why I believe we fight.

Do go a bit deeper than handing you a fistfull of one-liners:
This country was founded 230 years ago on the premise that all men were created equal. Since that warm Summer day in Philadelphia, those words have been changed to mean all PEOPLE are created equal, and have the right to pursue a life of freedom and happiness in this country... provided they get here. On the occasion that they cannot get here, and they have been denied these rights as we enjoy them, we have gone to them to provide it.
This is not a new occurrance, either, my friend. American servicemen have been deployed even in the 1800's to defend others' liberty and freedoms; however, let's stick with the relatively modern history... the 20th century and beyond.

Military personnel were deployed to Nicaragua, China, Haiti, Europe, Korea, Lebanon, The Carribean, Serbia, Somalia, and the Persian Gulf prior to this little jaunt... and ALL of them were protect the lliberties of non-Americans. After WWIm the world decided that it was going to have itself a League of Nations, which the US (after setting it up) decided not to take part in. After WWII, came the United Nations. The United States decided that it ws to be involved in this organizatrion, and to provide it with the teeth it required to attempt its members and other to behave themselves. In every instance the United Nations (including the Americans.. there has never been a strictly American War since the UN started) sent in troops to protect the peace, and to help keep people free, or to free them from tyranny.
To bring this little history lesson into the present:
In Iraq circa 2003, Saddam Hussein tortured, killed, used chemical weapons on, starved, and made sure his people were kept in their place and poor while he got rich and fat. There was all this quibbling going on about the WMD, and I couldn't care less about that, to be honest. I did feel that he had them, yet I never thought he would use them. I was concerned, however, about the way the people were being treated. We sit over here, beat our chests, and brag about how great we are, and how we are free, and yadda-yadda-who-cares. If a man is rich, yet won't help his neighbors, then what kind of a man is he? Same goes with the richest nation on earth... if we are so powerful that we cannot help those who have no one to help them, and who cannot help themselves, then we are exactly like that rich man.
Plain and simple (and long-windedly) Noah, we fight because someone has to... and the world (no matter what they say publicly) looks to us to do so.



To be merciful to the cruel is to be cruel to the merciful. www.impressionsintime.net
Mistletoe Angel
Deputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 5 Tours
Member Empyrean
since 12-17-2000
Posts 34089
City of Roses


2 posted 03-24-2006 02:56 AM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

That's really the point in why I started this thread.

I honor you in that your family traditionally has served since the American Civil War, I really do. I may not agree with a passion with the militaristic and political intents behind most of the wars since then, and I am a conscientious objector, but I hold you to exception in that you and your family are willing to sacrifice something.

But I find you to be a rare, genuine exception in recent times. Everyone else in the "Can We Afford It?" thread failed to answer Jo's question, "What are you willing to sacrifice?". A vast majority of those who still support the war in Iraq now ardently are NOT making any sort of sacrifice. So it seems to me that many of them may be in favor of this war, but they really don't embrace or believe in this war.

And so, in my mind, I don't believe it's "we" that's fighting. I feel the question is more accurately, "Why do they fight?". I believe our nation fights primarily to suit corporate interests that have taken over our political process, which our own government itself is powerless to.

I believe Jarecki intentionally pretended that the film's title is a question, and directs it particularly to ordinary Joes and Janes, and, as you can expect, both sides of the aisle give differing, bewildering, head-scratching responses. It's also why Jarecki doesn't rely on the usual anti-war heavyweights like Noam Chomsky and Scott Ritter, but interviews Bill Kristol and Richard Perle as well.

Finally, the footage of Eisenhower's January 17, 1961 farewell address is absolutely significant, because here you have a mainstream Republican, a most honored war hero of the 20th Century, at the height of the Cold War, warning of this "military-industral complex", which makes this address all the more remarkable looking back.

I do believe the nightmare Eisenhower was warning us about is becoming a growing reality now, where the interests of corporations are put ahead of the interests of the people. I believe this is what I like to call "Generation L" (The Lobbyist Generation) and wars are largely fought to fulfill their interests. (Kellogg Brown Root, Halliburton, Bechtel, etc.)

Why do they fight......that's another head-scratcher altogether.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton

"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

Mother Teresa

Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


3 posted 03-24-2006 06:08 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

quote:
I was concerned, however, about the way the people were being treated. We sit over here, beat our chests, and brag about how great we are, and how we are free, and yadda-yadda-who-cares. If a man is rich, yet won't help his neighbors, then what kind of a man is he?


Amazing how many Jimmy Carter fans surface these days.

Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


4 posted 03-24-2006 07:12 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

goodintentions

quote:
U.S. military intervention in Iraq was supposed to result in the Great Transformation: the neoconservatives who howled for war reassured us with their own version of a reverse domino theory, in which, when Iraq fell to the American "liberators," the rest of the region would soon follow. Not only would repressive Arab regimes be changed, but they would be changed into their exact opposites functional democracies that would prove more conducive to peaceful relations with the West.

It hasn't turned out that way.

Take Afghanistan please! where a Christian convert faces the death penalty for abandoning Islam. Afghan prosecutors inveigh against Abdul Rahman as a "microbe," and the judge in the case has stoutly resisted any attempts by outside authorities either the Afghan government of "President" Hamid Karzai or the U.S. embassy to interfere. The alleged "constitution" guarantees religious liberty, but that, apparently, does not apply to Mr. Rahman, whose arrest and imprisonment has been defended by Mawlavi Muhaiuddin Baloch, chief adviser on religious affairs to Karzai.

-------
quote:
What this illustrates, in the most dramatic terms, is that culture rules and that the thin veneer of "democratic reforms" initiated by our Afghan sock-puppets has about as much staying power as the Soviet-style "reforms" in the area of women's rights and education initiated by the Russian-backed regime of the 1980s, i.e., zilch. The stubborn persistence of traditional norms of behavior, in the face of Jacobin efforts to wipe them out, is proving too much for even the mightiest army on earth to overcome: in the end, we "liberated" nothing and no one.


The goals are still valid, the means are not. If we want to change the world (and I still believe we should), we have to take a deep breath, dig in, and go back to the hard work of changing people's minds one word at a time.


Mistletoe Angel
Deputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 5 Tours
Member Empyrean
since 12-17-2000
Posts 34089
City of Roses


5 posted 03-25-2006 09:30 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

http://www.zogby.com/Soundbites/ReadClips.dbm?ID=12874

Here's an interesting new Zogby poll that reveals how the anti-war movement shouldn't be underestimated in influencing this November's mid-term elections and beyond:

**************

"A new national poll shows that a near majority of voters either strongly or somewhat agree with a pledge not to vote for pro-war candidates. This makes the antiwar movement's potential impact on elections larger than pro-gun, anti-abortion, or anti-gay marriage voters. Politicians will have to pay heed to this new political force.

The pledge states:

"I will not vote for or support any candidate for Congress or president who does not make a speedy end to the war in Iraq, and preventing any future war of aggression a public position in his or her campaign."


The national poll found that 45.9% of US voters agree 20.1% strongly agree and 25.8% somewhat agree. Among Democrats 67.1% agreed 33.3% strongly, 59.2% of Independents 25.3% strongly and even 25.7% of Republicans agreed 5.5% strongly. The poll was conducted by ICR Survey Research of Media, Pa., which also polls for ABC News, The Washington Post and many corporations and research organizations.

This poll demonstrates that antiwar voters are significant enough in size to affect the outcome of elections if they become organized. Just like pro-gun groups have organized, pro-choice and pro-life groups have organized now the antiwar constituency has been identified and the peace movement is ready to organize them. This will ensure that the antiwar movement will no longer be one that can be ignored."


**************

Zogby also notes one organization that's leading the way in grassroots organizing of pro-peace and anti-war voters: Voters For Peace.
http://www.votersforpeace.org/

*

The mainstream media continues to ignore the building anti-war momentum in America and appease to the administration's false optimism of Iraq, despite a majority calling for a withdrawal plan in the coming months and the nation being on the precipice of civil war.

Despite that, I believe this president has managed to further his art in lowering his approval ratings with considering us to stay in Iraq beyond the end of his second term in 2009. In doing that, he literally means, "I know I've screwedthings up big time, but why should I have to clean up this mess, that's McCain or Clinton's job!". He's simply passing the buck, claiming he has no responsibility whatsoever here. And he and pundits like Hannity and O'Reilly can continue to call those who recognize the fact we can't win this war militarily "traitors" and "appeasers of the enemy", but most swing voters don't share the pundit's viewpoint and demand a gradual withdrawal and political and economic strategy for stabilizing Iraq.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton


"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

Mother Teresa
iliana
Member Patricius
since 12-05-2003
Posts 13488
USA


6 posted 03-25-2006 09:59 PM       View Profile for iliana   Email iliana   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for iliana

Glad to see this, Noah.
Goldenrose
Member Elite
since 05-30-2003
Posts 3637


7 posted 04-05-2006 08:41 PM       View Profile for Goldenrose   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Goldenrose

Noah.. if i may go back to your original question...of why we fight..i think the touch paper was maybe 911..it gave a reason for going to war..even if the people chosen to go to war against was the ''wrong'' enemy ..but it WAS enough to merit going to war to find the terrorists...??????

Look at this link and let me know what your thoughts are after reading it?
http://www.physics.byu.edu/research/energy/htm7.html

May your day be filled with sunshine and clouds of silver..

Goldenrose.
 
 Post A Reply Post New Topic   Go to the Next Oldest/Previous Topic Return to Topic Page Go to the Next Newest Topic 
All times are ET (US) Top
  User Options
>> Discussion >> The Alley >> "Why We Fight" Format for Better Printing EMail to a Friend Not Available
Print Send ECard

 

pipTalk Home Page | Main Poetry Forums

How to Join | Member's Area / Help | Private Library | Search | Contact Us | Today's Topics | Login
Discussion | Tech Talk | Archives | Sanctuary



© Passions in Poetry and netpoets.com 1998-2013
All Poetry and Prose is copyrighted by the individual authors