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Passions in Poetry

LaFave Dropped Of Molestation Charges

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Mistletoe Angel
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0 posted 03-21-2006 11:11 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/03/21/charges.dropped/

According to the Associated Press, all child molestation charges have been dropped despite LaFave's admission of guilt for child rape.

I wonder what kind of message this sends to other child molestors. I think we can all agree her chances of making it through three years of house arrest and seven years of probation without violating them are slim. Even so, they aren't going to put her back in jail simply for a probation violation.

Isn't anyone else just alarmed, even scared by this, that it'll just encourage other sex offenders across America?

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton


"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

Mother Teresa

[This message has been edited by Mistletoe Angel (03-22-2006 08:48 PM).]

Local Rebel
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1 posted 03-21-2006 11:17 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

Given the subject matter Noah -- do you REALLY want to use that title?
iliana
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2 posted 03-21-2006 11:43 PM       View Profile for iliana   Email iliana   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for iliana

I certainly wouldn't want to let her babysit my son, Noah!

But....we only know what the media has told us.  Perhaps, she has been abused or maybe dateraped....maybe her "acting out" is from a mental illness.  Many times sexually abused girls/woman act out by being overly sexually aggressive.  I do not want to judge this girl without knowing all the facts. On the other hand, if she had not been so pretty and bright, I wonder what would have happened.

Noah, the other day, I interviewed an attorney who told me about one of his criminal cases.  The case was this:  A man in his 20s took in a girl who was about 14 at the time.  He got her pregnant and over the years they lived together, she had three children.  He worked a regular job and reared the children.  The woman, now in her 30s probably, (and he in his 40s) moved to another city a few years ago.  She left the children with him during that time.  The lawsuit this attorney had was that the woman filed rape charges against this man -- that was after close to a 17 year common-law marriage.  Where they lived "happily" together and raised three children (no allegations of child abuse whatsoever).  This man was convicted of rape and will probably end his life in prison.  I am not pro-rapist....let's get that straight!  But, it seems to me, that sometimes there are some extinuating circumstances.  In this particular case, 150 years ago, it would have been fairly normal for a 14 year old to have been married to a man in his 20s.  Nowadays, of course, 14-year-olds are much less emotionally mature, in most cases and not ready for that.  Just thought this was kind of interesting.  

LoL...Reb
LeeJ
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3 posted 03-22-2006 11:01 AM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

LOL Reb!!

Yes, I agree Illana and feel badly this person was faulsly acused...but what about those that are not.

I was just talking to my son the other night.  He is a police officer...he so wishes, the states would wise up and stop wasting money trying to rehabilitate criminals, it is their way of life, the only life they know.   He wishes instead they would build bigger prisions, getting these guys off the streets.  

I'm inclined to agree...rehab might work for a small percentage, but if you talk to the parents of the victims and the victims...I believe the majority might say the same thing, not to mention, these are repeated crimes, over and over again...

For those of you, who feel badly for this teacher, I'm sorry, but I feel worse for the 14 year old and his parents.  

I cannot think of a worse thing to have to come to terms with as a parent (other then loosing a child)...to know, that you've trusted your child with a teacher/a role model and she/he violates that trust and uses your child...?  What phsycological effect will this have on the child?  

It really, really really angers me, when an adult takes advantage of a child, a defenseless, vulnerable child...who is taught to trust adults?

Ilana, I respect your opinion, but also add...this is so grotesquely wrong, and a henous crime, we are supposed to protect our children from this?  The chances this woman will do this again are very likely...

What could she be thinking?  She is an absolute beautiful woman, and she violates a 14 year old child?  

I'm sorry, but I hold my ground on this subject, as Noah, you probably know by now how I feel...this woman gets no sympathy from me...she apologized to the boy and the family asking that they all move on.  I wonder if she will move to another area, work with children again?

Thank you, for starting this thread...Noah, and bringing attention to this subject.
Susan Caldwell
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4 posted 03-22-2006 11:46 AM       View Profile for Susan Caldwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Susan Caldwell

"I think we can all agree her chances of making it through three years of house arrest and seven years of probation without violating them are slim"

I'm pretty sure I disagree with that statement.

Here is what bothers me about this:

I sincerely believe if it had been a male teacher instead of the female teacher, no charges would have been dropped..

nor should they be, in my opinion, either.



"too bad ignorance isn't painful"
~Unknown~
LeeJ
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5 posted 03-22-2006 01:14 PM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

yanno, here is a perfect example of woman wanting equal rights...and they should have, but in this case, I feel to if she were a he, it would be more frowned upon...I'm anxious to see what others feel about this.

[This message has been edited by LeeJ (03-22-2006 02:16 PM).]

Cloud 9
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6 posted 03-22-2006 06:21 PM       View Profile for Cloud 9   Email Cloud 9   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Cloud 9

"I sincerely believe if it had been a male teacher instead of the female teacher, no charges would have been dropped..

nor should they be, in my opinion, either."

No they shouldn't be dropped. However, in my high school two male teachers were accused of harrassment at different times and only a few yrs apart. One had evidence that proved he harrassed a student. THEY DROPPED the charges against both teachers. I guess it all depends on the circumstances or who you are.
Mistletoe Angel
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7 posted 03-22-2006 08:48 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

I can understand how I probably didn't put enough thought in how I titled this thread. Most unintentional, I swear! I apologize for any misunderstanding.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton

"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

Mother Teresa

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8 posted 03-23-2006 06:31 AM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

Noah, all who know you, know, you're title wasn't in the slightest intentionally cruel or immoral...you are a gem.  
Mistletoe Angel
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9 posted 03-23-2006 05:43 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

Awwwwww, thanks, Lee!

I just didn't want to feel as though I was giving the wrong impression was all. When I originally titled it "LaFave Gets Off", I by no means meant it in a derogatory way, and meant "gets off" in that she has been let go of all charges, let go of all justice for this sort of crime.

After earlier comments specified concerns with the title, I then realized the folly and was embarrassed myself. If I had been an Associated Press writer, I would have fallen victim to this most unintentional incident and would get blasted in the press.

Guess this just proves exactly how careful you have to be with what you say.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton

"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

Mother Teresa

skyshine
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10 posted 03-24-2006 12:37 PM       View Profile for skyshine   Email skyshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit skyshine's Home Page   View IP for skyshine

Hey, we've all done that, Noah. It's happened to me too, because I know what I mean as I'm typing and I don't always stop to think, "This may not make sense to someone else."

I think it is deplorable that charges have been dropped against an admitted child molester, especially after Ms. LaFave admitted to child rape. Mary Kay Letourneau was sentenced to seven years in prison for having sex with a 12-year-old student of hers (and having two of his children). As far as I know, she's still on probation. Why is this lady any different?

~sky

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~Tim McGraw

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11 posted 03-27-2006 07:00 AM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

perhaps because its a different Judge...yanno, I remember a movie with Richard Crenna?  Don't remember the title...but everytime someone says, you have to feel sorry for the preditor, he/she had a bad life, I think of that movie.  If I remember correctly, Richard Crenna played a cop?  Who took rape very lightly...in the end, he was raped...talk about adding insult to injury.

My point is...we've got way to many bleeding hearts in America...I think we're to soft...the only way to deter crime is stiffer laws, stiffer sentenances, bigger and more prisions, that should be terrible places to go.  

Let me, if you will, say, we've all had tough lives, at one time or another, but that doesn't justify rape, molestation, robbing a store, selling drugs, or robbing from the system.  

I really really wish, and I state this because my son's a cop, and he sees it all, that people would stop going easy on the criminal...rehabilitation puts them back on the street, to once again, reak havoc...criminals, are a menace to society and do not contribute to mankind.  That's just my opinion...one of which I believe in more and more each day.

Once again, thank you Noah, for this thread.

This woman had no right, as an adult, to touch a 14 year old child...and should be made to pay for this henous crime...Period.
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12 posted 03-27-2006 02:53 PM       View Profile for Christopher   Email Christopher   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Christopher

quote:
the only way to deter crime is stiffer laws, stiffer sentenances, bigger and more prisions, that should be terrible places to go.
I agree Lee, that's a far better answer than preventing the crimes from happening in the first place...
Mistletoe Angel
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13 posted 03-27-2006 04:36 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

Absolutely agree.

Unfortunately, it's many of our own tax dollars that are going into providing these undeserved luxuries for ALL criminals; not merely the ones that have done misdemeanors, but the rapists, serial killers, etc. as well. And I fear it'll be a while before any groundbreaking reform takes place.

Love,
Noah Eaton

"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

Mother Teresa

Christopher
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14 posted 03-27-2006 05:52 PM       View Profile for Christopher   Email Christopher   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Christopher

I think my point got missed - guess I shouldn't have employed sarcasm in an attempt to get it across...

Instead of looking to treat the symptoms, wouldn't it be better to cure the disease?
Not A Poet
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15 posted 03-27-2006 06:33 PM       View Profile for Not A Poet   Email Not A Poet   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Not A Poet's Home Page   View IP for Not A Poet

Do you have a suggestion as to how we might "prevent crimes from happening in the first place?" An admirable concept but impractical at best, I submit.
Local Rebel
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16 posted 03-27-2006 06:37 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

I don't know it seems like we get to choose between implanting everyone with a GPS chip and lopping off fingers and toes and hands and feet and plucking out eyes...

Stricter drug laws and stiffer sentences and mandatory sentencing have certainly cured the drug problem in America.



(see Chris -- you just needed to use that little guy)
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17 posted 03-27-2006 07:13 PM       View Profile for Christopher   Email Christopher   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Christopher

heh, no doubt.

Reb just said it, Pete - where has enforcement gotten us? If anything, it seems there's a rapidly rising increase. Is it because we pander to criminals and give them the "high life" as Noah seems to suggest, or is it because we're trying to do the equivalent of battling HVN1 with chicken soup? I propose that we've reached epidemic status already and the only truly viable method of response is to attempt preventing further occurrences.

Do I have suggestions? Sure, I can probably come up with a couple of ideas, but I won't deny that it's not my area of expertise. Does this mean that I think I know better than those whose area of expertise it is? No, but I do think that people have a tendency to "follow the money" as it were, and focus their time and talents on what the big birds want, which, in many cases, is a more resolute form of punishment rather than any attempt at initial inhibition. This is the reason why a large factor of my voting decisions weighs toward those who promote programs and legislations that help people who would otherwise "logically" follow a criminal path.

My ideas, for what little they may be worth:

I think an equalization (or at the least a minimization) of economic disparity would go a long way toward eliminating a fair amount of certain types of crimes. I recognize the unlikelihood of this, as, historically, the rich stay rich and the poor stay poor and those in between get stepped on by both.

I think “help” programs should no longer be voluntary, but a mandatory part of public schools – why do we push so much funding into dealing with existing drug addicts, who statistically (overwhelmingly so) fall off the proverbial wagon and begin using again, when we could focus that money into prevention programs in school? I would much rather see a few million taxpayer dollars taken out of the local 12-step program and put into increased police presence around schools, public gathering places and residential neighborhoods – if the kids can’t get the drugs, they very well might never use them.

Stop focusing on the “wrong” stuff. For example, between 1989-2003, California spent $406,000,000 on adolescent anti-smoking programs. I am not for a second suggesting that children (or anyone, for that matter) should smoke. It’s not illegal, however, and I don’t recall hearing of any criminal or morally deficient acts committed due to being a smoker. That’s 406m dollars that could have been focused on counseling for families to prevent abuse.


Just a few thoughts, I am sure I can think of many, just as others could, but, then, I guess that’s the problem – we all have our own ideas… I just think it’s silly to spend all our money on rehabilitation, instead of preventing it from happening in the first place.

Here’s a suggestion – lets take anyone who has even the remotest possibility of being a criminal and put them on an island (no, Australia’s already taken). Then we can cut the rot out at the root and start over fresh and squeaky clean! (better, Reb? )
Not A Poet
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18 posted 03-27-2006 08:52 PM       View Profile for Not A Poet   Email Not A Poet   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Not A Poet's Home Page   View IP for Not A Poet

It's true there was very little crime in the USSR or China, until they recently began loosening up a bit, that is. I still believe I prefer to take my chances by locking up the perps rather than that sort of system.

Of course, there's little internal crime in the Arab countries too. That may be related to the severity of the deterent though.

As for the money spent on the anti-smoking campaign, I don't have the numbers but I would not be at all surprised if smoking causes about as much harm as crime. In any event, I believe it to be a well worthwhile effort and money well spent.

I think your last suggestion may have more merrit although I would be very leery of who might be the ultimate authority for making that decision. I mean, I can't claim to have always been a saint

Chris, I don't mean to belittle your ideas at all. To the contrary, they are all admirably thought out. In an ideal world, I would agree completely. In an ideal world though, that would surely not be necessary. If we all had the foresight of a Gene Roddenberry maybe we could learn to live together peacefully. But then, that time as not yet come.
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19 posted 03-27-2006 09:09 PM       View Profile for Christopher   Email Christopher   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Christopher

No, it hasn't come yet...

I want to clarify that I don't suggest we stop locking up perpetrators - that is a necessary function; if someone does commit a crime, they should be punished for it and/or put in such a place where they are not free to repeat until rehibilitated (asomething I'm not wholly convinced of).
quote:
It's true there was very little crime in the USSR or China, until they recently began loosening up a bit, that is. I still believe I prefer to take my chances by locking up the perps rather than that sort of system.

Of course, there's little internal crime in the Arab countries too. That may be related to the severity of the deterent though.
All you do here, Pete, is redefine criminality. Take earlier Russia and judge it on [our] standard of criminality and they wouldn't seem so idyllic.

Ah well - I won't lie, I think it's they're some good ideas and would love to see that kind of world... but my inner activist is a fairly inert organ, which is why I try not to complain too loudly, believing that if you aren't attempting to resolve an issue, you don't have much room to complain about it.
Local Rebel
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20 posted 03-27-2006 09:32 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

Or, we can let a judge and jury decide what the best application of the law is on a case by case basis.

Double standards are being discussed here -- and well -- it just so happens that there are differences.  

quote:

She had sex with him five times in four days in the classroom, at her house, and in her SUV.

Call me old fashioned but, that's spoiling a kid

-- Bill Maher



Not far from here a male teacher ran off with a 14 year old female student a couple of years ago -- we all think differently about that because it is different -- isn't it?

What is the justice in LaFave sitting in prison and the kid getting high-fived in the locker room?  Our culture celebrates this fantasy -- didn't VanHalen have a hit song/video with Hot For Teacher?  Or there's the more recent hit 'Stacey's Mom Has Got It Goin On'

I don't see that our society is going to hell in a handbasket because this young woman is serving house arrest instead of doing hard time. I don't think it sends the message to any grizzly 40-year-old male football coaches that it's ok to molest junior-high cheerleaders in the showers after the game.

[This message has been edited by Local Rebel (03-27-2006 10:03 PM).]

Christopher
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21 posted 03-27-2006 10:27 PM       View Profile for Christopher   Email Christopher   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Christopher

It may not for the grizzly old man, Reb, but what about the next female teacher who thinks one of her students is hot?

I have a tendency to agree with you about the severity - when I was fourteen I was "with" a 23 year-old and her sister - and never once even remotely considered it a bad thing.

But I was fourteen and, well, let's just say a fourteen-year-old boy's sexual judgment isn't exactly what we'd call, uhm, objective. I'm not throwing a stink about it happening, I don't regret that it happened. It doesn't make it right, though.

What if they'd have been one of my teachers and there was a suggestion that I might not do too well in class if I didn't comply? I suppose I could rat them out, though it's quite likely it wouldn't be believed - I mean, really, what grown woman would want to have sex with her underage student, much less feel compelled to resort to forcing him? What if I just didn’t like her? What if I found her unattractive? What if I was already with someone I cared about and they found out? What if my parents found out? What if my peers found out – sure, they might be high-fiving him, but they’re also looking at him every time he passes by, judging him, looking at him as an extension of the impropriety, not as a person himself. What if my teacher had been male? What if he had been "grizzly" (which, at that age if I remember correctly, started somewhere around the age of 35 )? What if he had been into some of the rougher stuff?

Sure, in this case, it’s quite possible (and even likely, considering how attractive she is) that the boy is extremely happy to have had the experience. But, aside from the legality, should that instance be allowed despite all the countless others that might not go so “good?” And this is all from a male’s perspective, the gender that is much less likely to be forced into sexual acts. Jump over to the other side of the fence and switch the sexes, where the teacher could even more readily take advantage of his student. In a small way, it’s like avoiding relationships at work – especially for the boss. If one’s in a position of authority, with the ability to influence another’s success or failure, they shouldn’t also be able to coerce the end results.

I think there are possibilities of good experiences with younger people and their [elders], but the potential harm it can cause far outweighs that remote likelihood. Those laws, I believe, are there for a good reason and should equally cover both sexes – the woman committed a crime and should pay for it accordingly…

Ok, I’ve been fighting it, but can’t help it – she should pay for her crime and be under house arrest… I happen to have an extra room. (ok, it’s just a joke, take the rest seriously please!)
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22 posted 03-27-2006 10:29 PM       View Profile for Christopher   Email Christopher   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Christopher

oh, and I can't believe I missed the big one... what if she got pregnant?
Local Rebel
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23 posted 03-27-2006 10:49 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

yep

And all of your 'what ifs' are case by case decisions.  
Not A Poet
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24 posted 03-27-2006 10:50 PM       View Profile for Not A Poet   Email Not A Poet   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Not A Poet's Home Page   View IP for Not A Poet

Of course you are right Chris but, as Reb said, there is and always has been a double standard. Try as I might to view the incident from a strictly legal point, I still can't get away from the old double standard. I had a couple of teachers who were "pretty hot" and can remember well enough to, oh well, you get the point.

On the other hand though, had the sexes been reversed, I would agree the the perp should have been locked away for a very long time. After all, a young girl does have a lot more to lose than a similar aged boy. I seem to recall that pretty much all of us spent most of our waking hours trying to get it. Had it been from a beautiful and experienced woman, again, you know where I'm going.

There was a great old movie a few years ago, "The Summer of '42" that explains the whole thing. It will surely bring back some pleasant memories and maybe make you feel a little younger for a little while. Oops, I forgot, you aren't yet old enough to need to feel younger And, believe me, that's a good thing.

So yes, she was wrong and deserves to be punished accordingly. I can't say that what she got was proper, probably not. But I could never punish her as severly as I would a man for taking advantage of a young girl.
 
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