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Passions in Poetry

Guess Who is NOT Coming to Dinner

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Local Rebel
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25 posted 03-11-2006 10:41 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

Sure it blew the lid off the administration Mike -- why do you think it ended up this way?  Why were all the Republicans in the House and Senate scurrying away as far and fast as they could from the President?

Liberals aren't economic isolationists and diplomatic pluralists?

Conservatives aren't free traders and diplomatic unilateralists?

Elaborate if I'm incorrect Mike.

I think the Democrat's next move will be the move that all politicians make... spin spin spin...

Balladeer
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26 posted 03-11-2006 11:02 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Conservatives are the exact opposite -- even to the point where Conservatism says government can't do anything right

I think the elaboration lies with you, LR.

I see no lid blown off anything as far as the administration is concerned. Actually Bush comes off looking like the good guy here, ironically. He was the one, and almost only one, that stood up for the Dubai government, the one who claimed they were trustworthy enough to manage ports. While Congress was showing their prejudice and screaming that no Arab nation should be allowed such a transaction, he spoke in their defense. Now people like Dean are backtracking by claiming it had nothing to do with the fact they are Arabs which is blatantly transparent, based on all the other foreign owners of our ports. Now headlines are questioning "What have we done to damage US-Arab relations?" As far as Dubai and all other interested Arabs are concerned, Bush is the only one NOT to show prejudice. If you want to call the lid-blowing, that's fine. Dean and the Democrats, and the Republican senators who sided with them, are the ones trying to do damage control now.
Local Rebel
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27 posted 03-12-2006 10:31 AM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

If you don't think this last week wasn't the worst ever politically for the Bush administration then you're not being loyal Mike -- you're just being stubborn.

Cheny's approval rating is at 18%. Bush at 37% in the best polls.  These are horrific numbers.  The Congressional Democrats are blowing out their Republican challengers by 12 points.  Even among Republicans 25% now dissapprove of the Bush administration and 70% believe Iraq is either in civil war or about to be.  Buckley has even said that Iraq is a failed initiative and a mistake to begin with.

The main articles of American Conservative faith in the last half of the last century Mike have been small government because government can't do things well (and isn't that what you're agreeing with Ron about when he says big C Capitalism?) and that business and people need to be left alone and the invisible hand will take care of everything and everyone by itself.  (which is actually classical liberalism)

Reagan's famous line is the scariest words in the English language are 'I'm from the government, I'm here to help.'

Likewise -- American Conservatism is strongly steeped in Nationalism eschewing things like the United Nations or the World Court in a 'go it alone' foreign policy -- those are just basics Mike.

Then along comes Neoconservatism and says -- we need to intervene and we can build a nation.  It's a perversion of earlier Goldwater/Reagan principle that American military needed to be used to promote democracy throughout the world in order to buttress the advance of the Soviets during the cold war.

Do you disagree?
Balladeer
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28 posted 03-12-2006 05:58 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Well, far be it from me to claim I don't have a stubborn streak   Allow me to say that if you think the Democrats initiated the action to get the UAR out for the safety of the nation and that  it's a great victory then you are a very naiive gentleman.

I have never heard the Republicans claim that the government remain small because it can't do things well. It wants to keep the government small because it believes the less government intervention there is, the better it is for the common man. They find nothing wrong with individuals being responsible for their own lives, as opposed to liberals who claim that the populace cannot survive without the government taking care of them. Liberals believe more in a welfare state instead of the welfare of the country's citizens. Which do I choose? I prefer the responsibility. The bum on the street would prefer to be taken care of. The UN - that conglomerate whose councils contain the worst   governments in the world, the organization that does nothing to prevent the injustices in the world except to make noise and threats that they never follow through with...and the world court, who would enjoy, i'm sure, putting American servicemen throughout the world on trial for war crimes - you claim it is bad policy to stand up to these organizations? Then let's keep footing the UN bills as they continue ways to shove it to us.

I wouldn't mind discussing any of this with you but, if that's what  you want to do, initiate another thread for it, please. I created this thread specifically about the ports situation and would prefer to stick to it without shooting off into other tangents. If you feel that this decision was indeed a shining moment, then so be it. I admire that you announce your prejudice so openly.

Local Rebel
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29 posted 03-12-2006 06:24 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

quote:

Allow me to say that if you think the Democrats initiated the action to get the UAR out for the safety of the nation and that it's a great victory then you are a very naiive gentleman.



I don't recall saying that anywhere.  Did you read it somewhere?  I said I find the issue perplexing.  Everything that a politician does is political.  Right or Left.  Right or Wrong.  D or R.

If presenting an analysis, in response to an issue that brings it to light, that our two ideological houses have schizophrenic positions in the areas of trade policy and foreign policy reveals a prejudice then it must logically be that I have a general dissatisfaction with the political class.  Is that the prejudice to which you refer?

You ask for elaboration and then tell me to take it to another thread when I do?     And, sorry, but no, I don't have the time to conduct a primer in polisci...
Balladeer
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30 posted 03-12-2006 06:36 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

ok, then....I asked you to explain why a demeaning sentence of yours was presented as fact and not opinion. You responded and I answered your response. If you felt that I was asking for elaboration of the entire political structure of the country, I wasn't. The difference between Democrats and Republicans has little to do with the issue of refusing Arab port management as opposed to Chinese management. That's the prejudice I'm referring to, as you well know.
I'm very glad you don't have the time. Neither do I...Thank you for offering to teach me, though
Local Rebel
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31 posted 03-12-2006 07:59 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

Allow me to re-contextualize then because I haven't been discussing the array of differences between Democrats and Republicans.  I'll try to keep this entertaining too for Brad and Ron since I can hear them yawning between chuckles.

I didn't mention abortion, fiscal and tax policy, civil rights, gender equality, states rights, judicial activism, political correctness or whether or not Presidents should wear boxers or briefs or if they should keep things tucked inside them.

What I pointed out was the two policy problems that are directly germane to your thread Mike.  Foreign Policy, and Trade Policy.  And that the two ideological parties do not have policies in trade or foreign affairs that are internally consistent with each other.  

This creates an inherent dynamic tension that would be funny were it not for the fact that we have a country to run.  Watching politicians squirm when they face the press can be gloriously entertaining.

If I haven't been demeaning enough towards the Democrats for you Mike -- I'm sorry -- but you've been doing such a fine job I thought you'd think I was crowding your turf.  
Balladeer
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32 posted 03-12-2006 08:10 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Oh, please, crowd my turf with Democratic insults anytime you wish!

The interesting thing is here that the political differences and affiliations between the two parties, nor foreign and trade policies should have little to do with this thread since, as has been pointed out, both parties united against the administration on this one.

...and, as I pointed out, they are competing with other now to see who can proclaim the loudest that ethnic prejudice had nothing to do with it.
JesusChristPose
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33 posted 03-14-2006 06:09 PM       View Profile for JesusChristPose   Email JesusChristPose   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JesusChristPose

Clinton sold and allowed secret technological information to fall into the hands of the Chinese.

"If this grand panaorama before me is what you call God... then God is not dead."

Balladeer
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34 posted 03-14-2006 11:17 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

shhhhh....we're not supposed to talk about Clinton
Brad
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35 posted 03-17-2006 05:32 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

No, no, keep posting on Clinton. Sure, it used to be irritating, but now, well, it's just non-sensical, self parody.

God bless William Shatner!
Balladeer
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36 posted 03-17-2006 07:27 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Well, we agree on something, Brad. Clinton is indeed non-sensical (and either one of them would fit the bill).

By all means, you just keep chanting, "It's in the past! It's in the past!" and that will make it all better
Brad
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37 posted 03-17-2006 08:01 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Okay, Mike, I'll keep chanting. I defer to your superior knowledge on the subject.

You live there.

Believe it or not, we are also distressingly close on the other Clinton by the way.  
 
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