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Passions in Poetry

Bush knew about Katrina

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Jaime Fradera
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Where no tyranny is tolerable


0 posted 03-03-2006 01:18 PM       View Profile for Jaime Fradera   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Jaime Fradera


]Let's see what we have here.
There's at least one forwarded e-mail circulating through the Web.
It says Bush knew about Katrina and did nothing, ie, he wanted people to die ... maybe did this on purpose.
Really now?
Like Bill Clinton knew about the USS Coral bombings in advance and let it happen?
Like Jimmy Carter knew about the hostages in advance and let it happen?
Like Ronald Reagan knew about the Challenger Accident in advance, sat on his haunches and did nothing?
Like President Bush knew in advance about 911 and just let it happen?
If the likes of Ward Churchill and that teacher in Aurora actually think the United States shouldn't have happened and ought to be blown off the face of the Earth, starting with the Pentagon, why don't they flee to North Korea or Fidel Castro's socialist paradise where everybody is happy?
How long are people going to automatically swallow such simplistic dribble?
How long will it take before the credible becomes incredible?
How many U.S. Presidents have been compared with Adolph Hitler, accused of  blowing up countries he doesn't like, accused of working in collusion with his big oil friends to trash the planet, accused
of being the world's most dangerous terrorist?
How long will this continue?
How long, O Lord, How long?

serenity blaze
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1 posted 03-03-2006 01:26 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

"How long will this continue?
How long, O Lord, How long?"

Jaime? That startled me a bit, because I just had a visitor who asked, "How long?" too. It's been six months now, and he's caring for his blind, diabetic brother in an area of New Orleans still without electricity. His brother has lost his mind. Literally.

We're still looking for bodies here--and finding them.

How long?

As long as it takes--that how long.
Huan Yi
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2 posted 03-03-2006 02:25 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi


Stupidity is eternal

vlraynes
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3 posted 03-03-2006 02:57 PM       View Profile for vlraynes   Email vlraynes   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit vlraynes's Home Page   View IP for vlraynes


What's that supposed to mean, Huan Yi?

Just who, exactly, are you calling 'stupid'?
Mistletoe Angel
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4 posted 03-03-2006 03:45 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

Absolutely agree with Karen.....as long as it takes.

I believe it was obvious from the beginning that officials on all levels of government were warned in advance and still failed to take direct action. Nagin was having a cocktail on the French Quarter, Blanco perhaps was having her best suit starched clean, "Brownie" was going on about being a Nordstrom fashion god, Cherthoff was distracted, Bush was playing guitar with Mark Willis in California, Cheney was buying a new house up in New England, Condi was shoe shopping in New York City, and other administration officials were attending a baseball game despite knowing of the National Weather Service warnings and other warning signs.

I don't believe this news that reinforces that reality means to imply whatsoever that these representatives on all levels of government really wanted people on the Gulf Coast to die. I don't believe anyone on any level of our government was that heartless. This news story is important, however, because you heard, for instance, administration official say they "didn't anticipate the breach of the levees" and the all-too-familiar Bush didn't know excuse, yet the reality is the contrary. They DID know, and this story is really about the credibility of all levels of government, and just as I argued after the Katrina tragedy, many Americans are looking back on this epic response disaster and feel as though they can't trust their government whatsoever to respond to disasters like this from here on out.

And, in understanding that Bush and others DID know, despite previous excuses claiming the opposite, it ends up questioning their overall credibility. For instance, Bush said he didn't know about the Dubai deal under after it was approved in preliminary stages. Sources now suggest he did know about that also. Previous issues too, like the Plame leak and "intelligence" used to push us into war in Iraq. Those all-too-familiar excuses with all-too-familiar pointings to the contrary.

Those wackos like Ward Churchill and the nuts on Indymedia, with their anti-Semite attitudes and exhaustive "fascist" and "Hitler" analogies, are nuts to suggest that Bush was behind 9/11, that Reagen was behind the Challenger accident, that Jimmy Carter staged the hostage crisis, etc. They're totally and inconceivably wrong.

However, irresponsibility and incompetence are things we unanimously do not tolerate either, which indeed all politicians are subject to. And I do believe if Bush, Blanco, Nagin, etc. were more responsible and took the warnings seriously and helped mobilize all they could to respond to the looming disaster, though the damage would still be done and thus no one was a murderer in this, we probably could have saved a number of preventable lives in the crisis.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton

"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

Mother Teresa

Jaime Fradera
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5 posted 03-03-2006 07:19 PM       View Profile for Jaime Fradera   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Jaime Fradera

Yes, Huan Yi. I like that, stupidity is indeed eternal.
It must be so easy to think there are simple answers  and explanations for everything?
Ain't it easy to believe dark conspiracies are running the world?
That whatever happens to us is someone else's fault?
Ain't it easy to be a victim?
I can't afford to count my victimizers.
I don't even have the luxury  of blaming God.
Balladeer
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6 posted 03-03-2006 07:41 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

I agree, Jaime. If there are no conspiracies available, someone is sure to create one. Excellent post...

Reminds me of my favorite poem, Some Angry Angel, which can be found here... http://tegularius.org/keener.html

[This message has been edited by Balladeer (03-03-2006 08:32 PM).]

serenity blaze
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7 posted 03-03-2006 11:32 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Say it ain't so Mike.

You can't really think this is an "excellent" post?

Are you serious?

Say it ain't so.

BUSH knew about Katrina.

So did Blanco.

So did Nagin.

and this has got to be the most cold hearted applause I have ever heard.

I won't say that it's so, until you say it is, and even then?

It's gonna take six more months to swallow.
Balladeer
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8 posted 03-04-2006 12:32 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Yes, Serenity, I think it's an excellent post because it shows in a sarcastic way the conspiracies and lunatistic conclusions people come up with to justify whatever point they want to make.

Do you think Bush did nothing about katrina because he wanted people to die? Some will claim that.

do you think Clinton knew about the USSCoral bombings in advance and did nothing? I despise Clinton and still don't believe that.

Did Bush know about 9/11 in advance and did nothing? What brainless idiot came up with that one?

Everybody is so quick to point fingers and lay blame, come up with their own conspiratorial conclusions for everything that goes wrong in the world.

I can certainly understand your point of views concerning Katrina. You are there and who better to understand the situation much better than any of us? What decimated New Orleans? KATRINA! What could have stopped it? NOTHING. There was a hurricane, one of the strongest to ever hit the US. Yet, according to some, that little fact seems to be immaterial. Could Bush have done better? You bet! Nagin? Blanco?  No doubt about it. Could they have stopped it? You know the couldn't. It was a natural occurance whose time it was to happen and New Orleans was in its way. For the people who give the impression that stronger action by Bush could have stopped the wind and kept the levees from failing, those who claim that Bush didn't really care because there were just a bunch of poor blacks that were gonna get washed away...then i say this is an excellent post to show in a slightly sarcastic way how senseless and pointless guilt-sticking after the fact is.
vlraynes
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9 posted 03-04-2006 12:39 AM       View Profile for vlraynes   Email vlraynes   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit vlraynes's Home Page   View IP for vlraynes

Unbelievable...

"this has got to be the most cold
hearted applause I have ever heard"


Amen to that...

Love you, Karen...
serenity blaze
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10 posted 03-04-2006 12:44 AM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Six months ago I was a different person.

Three days ago, I believe my governor when she said she had "no idea."

I confess, I had qualms about the Bush administration saying the same, because I have simply always had qualms about the Bush administration.

When I read, then heard, then saw rafts being denied the citizens of New Orleans, I was ready to believe--I am this dumb--I was ready to believe that the FEMA organization believed rubber rafts couldn't survive storm rapids and debris--even as we watched our citizens ride rooftops down streets, with their babies in icechests, and I am NOT being dramatic--people died because of other people's hesitation regarding wardrobe attire?

c'mon....

PEOPLE DIED.

WE STILL HAVE NOT COUNTED THEM.

and no, Mike, I can't blow that off, and I have to tell you all here, I am enraged, seeing these tapes made public, with no feasible plans. I feel guilty because we left a car in our driveway with a full tank of gas. Eight people could have fit in there Mike. EIGHT.


I have seen many, many hurricanes. I have seen many many stupid stupid deaths. But never have I seen such a combo.

I wake crying, every damned day.

I cannot believe this happened in our country and it makes me afraid.

Mistletoe Angel
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11 posted 03-04-2006 01:57 AM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

I believe we all must accept that, except for anyone else who truly coped with Hurricane Katrina along the Gulf coast, can never fully feel or really understand the immeasurable grief and frustration like our Karen has.

And I'm not saying this as a personal blasting on Balladeer whatsoever, as I know wholeheartedly when he said this was an excellent post that he wasn't taking away anything from the intense tragedy of Katrina, but I don't believe there's anything to celebrate here whatsoever. Tens of thousands are STILL running around homeless six months later, many of them off food stamps, with FEMA no longer funding their temporary housing or hotels and such, the destruction of New Orleans, Biloxi, etc. is still most visible, the Housing Authority of New Orleans is denying most citizens the right to return to their properties, there are myriads of issues. And regardless of the quality of this overall discussion, this isn't an enjoyable discussion by any means.

I'd say if there is a silver lining in all of this, it comes from the millions of hearts of Americans and millions more abroad, through their altruism and Good Samaritan touch for the families affected by this tragedy. The amount of compassion and charity that was generated in response to Hurricane Katrina is unprecedented for an American natural disaster, and this huge compassionate display is what keeps me hopeful, keeps me optimistic, that the vast majority of this nation cares, and though I have minimal confidence that any level of government will respond any better to the next Katrina, the voice of fellow-feeling among most Americans is pure and strong.

Like Karen, though I was about 2,000 miles away from New Orleans when it was hit hard, I too can't believe New Orleans looked truly like a third-world community after the damage was done even to today, and I am also afraid on many levels.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton

"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

Mother Teresa

iliana
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12 posted 03-04-2006 02:46 AM       View Profile for iliana   Email iliana   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for iliana

My father used to say, "the more you learn, the more you realize how little you really know."  For those who pass off things, calling it "conspiracy theories," I say to you (with all due respect), time indeed will tell, maybe not everything, but enough to expose the truth.  

History has shown us this repeatedly.

If you don't want to take the time to investigate the truth and just pan it off as paranoia or conspiracy theory, then that is your decision. But, it is not polite to knock those who do.
Ron
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13 posted 03-04-2006 11:16 AM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
Do you think Bush did nothing about katrina because he wanted people to die? Some will claim that.

Conspiracy theorists invariably over-complicate everything. You don't need malevolence to explain incompetence.

quote:
Could Bush have done better? You bet! Nagin? Blanco?  No doubt about it.

Incompetency isn't necessarily a crime. In the first place, voters get what they want and, arguably, what they deserve. In the second place, when it comes to leaping tall buildings and bending steel with bare hands, few of us are not incompetent.

Incompetency isn't necessarily a crime, but lying to the public -- again and again and again -- certainly should be.


Mysteria
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14 posted 03-04-2006 12:41 PM       View Profile for Mysteria   Email Mysteria   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Mysteria

I first must clarify that I am not a Bush fan at all, but I am not going to blame him for a hurricane that he had no power to stop.  He could have done way better for sure, and might next time if still in office.

You know I spend a lot of time at the link shown below learning about your history, constitution, and what makes Americans tick as I have a lot of American friends, and do this out of respect to them partly.  I have been on the 3rd floor quite a while reading the Pledge of Alliance, and the Constitution as it is explained there.  I have said it before, and will again that the one thing that separates Americans from the rest of the world is your loyalty, and dedication to your country.  I miss that right now.  My favorite sight is that great American flag blowing in the wind so proudly once I cross the border.

American  Hall of Heroes

I particularly love the explanation of the Pledge Of Allegiance as it is explained further down the page here:

Pledge Of Allegiance

What happened to the victims during and after Katrina was all based on lies from almost everyone from the head of your government on down, but that is just my own opinion.  The media perpetuated the lies, and we have to thank ourselves for keeping them alive and spreading.  There are truths to the fact that trailers sit empty, but they have to have a place to put them, hook them up and give the people working services they say?  When?  

Bush has for sure given you all reason to question his ability more than any other president in American history that is for sure, but he stands firm in taking risks no other president ever has as well and therefore creates controversy in his role.  He was voted in and continues to do what you has given him power as your president to do, and will continue to do it as long as he holds office.  

He could not have stopped that hurricane, and what worries me is that there will yet be another one, due to the changing of our environment.

It's easy for me up in Canada you probably think to not "blame" someone when there are still people dead, missing, or displaced that will never return to their homes.  Not so, as I listen to the truth being told to me from Karen on how it really is down there, and it is in so many areas not "livable" for human or beast.  Now were I to blame anyone, I would blame the whole of the earth's inhabitants, for depleting Mother Nature of her stability, and then pick up a hammer, and start re-building what was taken away, and I do in my own way.

We are all angry, lacking trust as the truth is hidden and always will be.  The fact of the matter is this hurricane is over, and the solution is now what do we do to make it a better place for those suffering, and that means all of us!  Not just the citizens of America.  Everyone has to do his or her part, no matter now small to repair, rebuild, and rebirth.  

My heart goes out to everyone who feels this frustration and anger, and justly so, as you were indeed lied to, but if you had known the truth, what would it have changed realistically speaking?  What are your thoughts?  I ask this question in all due respect as I have not been able to come up with any answers myself.  Those that were able to get out did, those that could not, we indeed mourn.

What could have been done differently, and maybe we can all learn from those suggestions?
Jaime Fradera
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15 posted 03-04-2006 03:43 PM       View Profile for Jaime Fradera   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Jaime Fradera

/Well Karen I conceed Bush knew about Katrina.
I suppose he also knew about Laura?
serenity blaze
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16 posted 03-04-2006 04:07 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Jaime?

I enjoy a good conspiracy theory as much as anyone and once upon a time, I had the luxury of amusing myself by spending hours reading about them.

I apologize if I sound weary sweetie.

But if you are going to willingly go to a site online where that stuff is offered, may I politely suggest you not ask how long it will go on?

If you want to know how long talk regarding the worst natural disaster in U.S. is going to go on--read what I just typed.

In history.

Silence won't make it go away.

And god how I wish I didn't know either.

But I know this area, and if you don't think the poverty stricken people of New Orleans have good reason to be paranoid, then you are also blessed with a naivete that doesn't know the cycle of poverty, crime, and prejudice.

If stupid things on the internet bore you, then don't read them.

Now pardon me while I take my own advice.

My life here is literally killing me. I get a little irate about that.
Mysteria
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17 posted 03-04-2006 04:28 PM       View Profile for Mysteria   Email Mysteria   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Mysteria

Jaime, I hestitated on responding to this thread as I didn't want to upset anyone with my lack of first-hand knowledge of what is going on down there.  There seems to be two totally different issues being discussed as well.  However, I do hear daily from someone living down there about bodies still be found, more even that are missing, and not even being looked for until a family demands it.  Disease running rampant, and minds so messed up that reality is over for them.  That sickens me as a lot of it could have been avoided.  

I didn't want it come across that I am at all forgiving ole Bush.  I said, "He couldn't be held responsible for a hurricane."     In answer to your first question, "How long will this go on?"  I hope as long as it takes to find out the truth and the actual parties responsible for causing so many deaths in the south, and action taken on their lack of responsibility.  

There were indeed ways to get people out of cities there, and they slacked on that, why?  When the dust settles, blame will land where it may hopefully.  My hope is that it happens "soon!"  

So, I still reiterate the last question in my previous comment, "What could the administation have done better so that next time they can do a better job during a natural disaster?"  In answering this, we will all get to see the errors made, and make it easier to walk through the smoke of blame, and put it where it belongs, as well as learning some preparedness.  Thanks.

JesusChristPose
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18 posted 03-04-2006 04:55 PM       View Profile for JesusChristPose   Email JesusChristPose   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JesusChristPose

I agree with Balladeer's assessment on this situation.

What could of been done to stop Katrina?

Nothing.

If an early evacuation was deemed mandatory, how many people would of listened and evacuated and how many would of stayed in their homes, ignoring the mandatory evacuation?

Sure, it could of been handled better. The first person I would blame would have to the mayor of NO. Next, would be the governer of LA. If those two had their acts together, more could of been saved, but how many more, I just don't know. I don't think too many more anyway.

"If this grand panaorama before me is what you call God... then God is not dead."

iliana
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19 posted 03-04-2006 05:10 PM       View Profile for iliana   Email iliana   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for iliana

For anyone who doesn't think that the disaster which resulted in this horendous situation could not have been prevented by the Bush administration, please read:   http://www.nobody-knows-anything.com/2005/09/a_short_katrina_timeline.html and then think about it with a little logic!

Serenity has first-hand knowledge about the state of affairs there now and I'd like to know what is being done to help the continued suffering, the treatment for PTSD and those darn trailers that are sitting undistributed and rotting, just to name a very few of the problems.  What are they doing about disease control and who is in charge of that.  I would think with as much concern about the bird flu, there might be a little more concern about the types of diseases which could create pandemics coming out of a situation as exists there in NO.  
JesusChristPose
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20 posted 03-04-2006 05:19 PM       View Profile for JesusChristPose   Email JesusChristPose   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JesusChristPose

I thought about it with much logic [upon reading that timeline], and my mind still hasn't changed. Hindsight is always 20/20. That webpage doesn't prove anything.

"If this grand panaorama before me is what you call God... then God is not dead."

iliana
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21 posted 03-04-2006 05:24 PM       View Profile for iliana   Email iliana   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for iliana

With all due respect, it does prove and it has been proven repeatedly that the administration knew as early as 2001 that the levies were one of the top three potential disasters and what was done, they cut funding!  Call it incompetency, stupidity or conspiracy theory....the result and the facts are the same!  And...lol, nine minutes to repost....geeeeezzzz, you must be a super genius to have checked out the validity and all...!  
JesusChristPose
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22 posted 03-04-2006 05:37 PM       View Profile for JesusChristPose   Email JesusChristPose   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JesusChristPose

~ I read the timeline, if it took me 9 minutes to read it and reply, then that was too long.

~ I just happen to know about politics, having studied it in grad school. Once again, hindsight is always 20/20 - Always!



"If this grand panaorama before me is what you call God... then God is not dead."

Mistletoe Angel
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23 posted 03-04-2006 06:12 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

One thing is an absolute truth; hindsight is always clearer than foresight.

I would strongly disagree that hindsight is always 20/20, though. I believe if that were true, then we wouldn't be arguing here all the time and would never be repeating history's follies. I believe to most the dust is still very slowly settling and most of us don't realize many of the trials and adversities many on the Gulf are being faced with, just like no one but those who are serving in or have visited Iraq know exactly what the situation is there.

I feel our Karen is the closest here to 20/20 on this particular event in terms of understanding the nature of all that has happened. I believe just about everyone beyond the Gulf is compassionate and cares about all that is happening, but in terms of understanding the full issue here, I think we all have one lazier eye.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton


"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

Mother Teresa
iliana
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24 posted 03-04-2006 06:52 PM       View Profile for iliana   Email iliana   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for iliana

Amen to that, Noah!  

You know what?  The thing that gets me is all this about whose fault is or isn't -- it's almost an antrocity that this is the focus of a thread.  Deer, most obviously, Bush couldn't stop the wind....lol.  That's ridicuous and that is not the point.  Now, whether or not something could have been done to stop the levy break, any sane person knows it could have been prevented...it was technically feasible!  And it had been asked for!  And those who turned their backs after 9/11 to the vulnerabilities of the infostructure of our nations biggest oil shipping center (not to mention the people who populated it) should be held into account for it.  That should not even be the focus here -- that should be investigated by our representatives or an independent council.  That's like questioning whether or not Ken Lay and the rest of the Enron chronies should have been held to account for the disaster their decisions caused?

I really do believe the administration and whoever else is still sitting on their duffs about the situation resulting from Katrina should get up off 'em and do something.  Some act like there is not a problem to deal with...that it is all over...and now those poor folks down there (and spread all over the US) have to just shut up and put up with their situation.  What is really bothering me is that kind of attitude.  If it can happen to them, then it can happen to you.  

[This message has been edited by iliana (03-04-2006 09:48 PM).]

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