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Mistletoe Angel
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25 posted 02-22-2006 02:07 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

I too am going to throw a bubble tea party the election year a third party bursts to life and generates a catalyst in our political climate not rigidly bent on our two major parties.

I voted for Greens all the way down the ballot below the level of presidency, including Teresa Keane for the U.S Senate. I wish voting for David Cobb for President in 2004 was sufficient, as I definitely wanted to vote for him instead of John Kerry, but my purpose in voting for the first time in 2004 was to demand change from the first four years of this administration, and, sadly, Cobb didn't have a snowball's chance on the grill.

If only either one of our parties would have the courage to call for fusion balloting, that would be a huge start in the right direction.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton

"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

Mother Teresa

LeeJ
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26 posted 02-22-2006 02:52 PM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

Hi Noah, thanks so much for your input...

The way it's going is not working, it's only dividing the country causing hate and extremests...one against the other...the next President is certainly going to have their hands full...if they decide to work for the people?

Mysteria
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27 posted 02-22-2006 03:18 PM       View Profile for Mysteria   Email Mysteria   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Mysteria

It only makes sense to me if you don't like who there is to vote for, don't vote for them or the party they represent, pick the least likely to get in, so as to keep the power mongers out and increase the popularity of the underdog, no?  Remember those popularity contests in school to be class validictorian?  I sure do, and carry those race tactics with me eveyr election day.

I was thinking this morning I don't know enough about politics to get into this with you folks, and shouldn't really voice an opinion.  However, I strangely do know more about American politics than my own as most of my friends are Americans.  The simple reason for my interest is that you are a more powerful, and influential country.  To be honest, you guys scare the bejillies out of me down there, so I feel I have to know what you are up to as you are too close for comfort sometimes.     I will say this, and I am not alone up here in Canada, Bush scares me to death, and I mean that!  I did study the Civil War, and I actually see folks starting to fight amongst themselves now down there, and that is really sad and very scary.  What I admired most about the USA, (pre-Bush,) was the security I felt as a neighbour, and the sense pride felt by the citizens in America that I don't feel now.  With that having been said, I won't say another word, I promise, (in this thread anyway.) I wish someone could convince me I am dead wrong.

LeeJ
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28 posted 02-22-2006 03:31 PM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

Hey Sharon, I know what you mean, he scared me to death from the very beginning...for many reason, of which I won't go into...but Kerry was no pick either.  Another really frightening thing is our agencies, that have been depleted or are being deleted.  For instance, immigration, security, femma....it seems no one knows their job...and I'm still raging mad about the shape New Orleans and the other areas that were hit bad, are in...it's inhumane, the way these people have been living.  There are 100's of femma trailors sitting there, that were never distributed, just sitting there empty...there is a 60 year old woman, going to the bathroom in a bucket...still?????
The conditions are still deplorable, and no one is doing anything about it.  Its like everyone is pretending the problem still exists?  Its sad...sad what our country has come to, and those agencies like the Red Cross, etc. you'd think they'd get their act together...no one seems to know what to do.

I'm not talking out of my hat...as there are some news reports trying to bring attention back to the issue, to let American know what is NOT going on down there.  

Very very sad.  
Mistletoe Angel
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29 posted 02-23-2006 02:05 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

Blame it on political cronyism.

Cronyism seems to be quintessential to any form of politics, but it has especially heightened as of recently in that domestic health programs and programs designed to protect our borders and respond to natural disasters are being ran by corporate lobbyists with little professional experience to the fields in which they're hired to begin with. Many recent administrations do it for the money more than the interests of the public.

This Dubai deal strikes me as being all about the money too. The administration has made a colossal political mistake here because a number of Bush supporters that almost seemed to deify Bush ever since 9/11 to this day largely thought it didn't matter whether Iraq helped or harmed national security, whether the domestic spying program assisted or hindered surveillance of suspected terrorists, whether the Patriot Act helps get new leads against terror suspects; they thought it was appropriate because he's trying his best to do what he thinks is right, in their view, and if they agree with him on other issues, they'll be willing to forgive whatever mistakes have been made in his quest to protect the country, because he seems to care that much.

Now many of his core supporters see this Portgate controversy and are thinking, "Hey, I thought he said in a post-911 world, you can never be too careful, what happened?". Many are also thinking, "What happened to the 'whatever it takes to defend the American people' notion?" Even beyond that, I feel many of his core conservatives will finally look back on Iraq, the Patriot Act, NSA, etc. and think that all a sudden his credibility on all those issues has eroded, because of this double standard he has taken in that he has not lived up to his notion banner he's carried since 9/11 on the port deal.

I'll go ahead and tell you this. Anyone from EITHER political party here who is running for re-election this November in a competitive top-tier race and DEFENDS this deal is likely going to lose.

Lieberman probably has made the defining boo-boo that will transform the Connecticut Democratic Senate primary into a real race with challenger Ned Lamont. In the coming days, I expect his approval rating will significantly slip from both parties and independents, and though Lamont still has an uphill battle facing him, he probably has gained a legitimate shot at replacing Lieberman.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton

"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

Mother Teresa

Alicat
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30 posted 02-23-2006 04:17 PM       View Profile for Alicat   Email Alicat   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alicat

And then there's the Bush haters in power who tried to weaken or dismantle the Patriot Act, Homeland Security, NSA activities who are all of a sudden 'tough on terror'.  Senator Clinton is going off about no foreign ownership of American ports, but where was her anger when Britain controlled those ports?  Richard Reid is British...you know him, the shoe-box bomber.  British citizens participated in the London bombings.  British mosques handled the funding.  Where was her concern or anger about British ownership of American ports?  Or Boxer's? Pelosi?  Rangle?  Kennedy?  Kerry?  Any Democratic Senator or Representative?

But the US can't discriminate because the UAE are Arabic.  Can't do racial profiling.  Can't do wiretapping.  Can't do surveillance.  Can't monitor books or online content any worker from the UAE company checks out or reads.  If the Progressives are so die-hard about according all American rights to enemy combatants and illegal immigrants, they have to be granted all employees of the UAE controlled ports, just like they were to the employees of the British ports.

Am I for this buyout?  Nope, but not against it either.  I do have some questions, but those will only be answered in time.  Besides, noone seems to care about that same British company owning property and construction enterprises in Colorado, New Mexico and Arizona.
Mistletoe Angel
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31 posted 02-23-2006 11:54 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

I think it's ridiculous for any foreign company to own our seaports, airports, military services or anything connected to our national security infrastructure. I certainly would disagree with the British deal and any preceding foreign deal.

From the first day I learned about the Patriot Act, I've said I would support it once the sections that affect civil liberties are re-written as to not limit or infringe upon them. From the first day I learned about the NSA spying controversy, I said there is a perfectly legal way of eavesdropping terrorists, but opposed and still ardently oppose the way this administration chose to conduct it by running around the law and not either allowing Congress to agree to change the FISA requirements or obtain a warrant 72 hours in advance of the wiretap. And I've recognized long before September 11th that having a strong, effective national security system is a requirement, and my opposition to the war in Iraq, mistreatment of detainees abroad and other such things are all rooted in my firm belief these things threaten our national security and our image internationally.

It's not fair that you're solely pointing fingers at Democrats in that they were passive on the British deal. I don't recall either party making a peep on that deal, no Kerry's, Kennedy's and Boxer's, and no Frist's and Hastert's and Burns's. Americans should own American security sites, just as I imagine it is wise and only common sense for Britians to own British security sites, and so on.

Both parties have perfectly legitimate reasons for opposing this deal. The Democrats have been calling for increased security of our nations ports strongly within the past decade, and the 9/11 Commission Report confirms that our ports are among the most vulnerable areas in our nation security-wise. And when the investigation to the national security implications to this deal wasn't even complete, how can you really trust the company anyway if you are not among those who believe only American companies should run American ports?

The Republicans oppose this deal also because they are looked at more trusting and stronger on the war on terror than the Democrats are, and they're not about to damage their credibility and compromise their conservative notions just because the president wants to make a business arrangement, especially ahead of the mid-term elections.

Bush supporters that almost seemed to deify Bush ever since 9/11 to this day largely thought it didn't matter whether Iraq helped or harmed national security, whether the domestic spying program assisted or hindered surveillance of suspected terrorists, whether the Patriot Act helps get new leads against terror suspects; they thought it was appropriate because he's trying his best to do what he thinks is right, in their view, and if they agree with him on other issues, they'll be willing to forgive whatever mistakes have been made in his quest to protect the country, because he seems to care that much.

Now many of his core supporters see this Portgate controversy and are thinking, "Hey, I thought he said in a post-911 world, you can never be too careful, what happened?". Many are also thinking, "What happened to the 'whatever it takes to defend the American people' notion?" Even beyond that, I feel many of his core conservatives will finally look back on Iraq, the Patriot Act, NSA, etc. and think that all a sudden his credibility on all those issues has eroded, because of this double standard he has taken.

THAT'S why the Republicans are opposed to this deal, and they are wise to be doing so.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton

"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

Mother Teresa

Goldenrose
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32 posted 02-26-2006 06:26 PM       View Profile for Goldenrose   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Goldenrose

From my very limited knowledge of this subject i wouldnt worry too much about this issue. The company involved in the arab deal is a british company named P&O they are about to be taken over by a United Arab Emerates company. Now the emerates is not recognised as a rogue state, quite the opposite. UAE is run by the ruling family of the Maktoums who have lots of business deals in the US already through their love of thoroughbred racehorses. They have had business dealings with america for over 20 years now and no body has ever said a thing about their business dealings until they buy into a shipping firm. Sheik Mohammed al Maktoum of the UAE is the defence secretary of his country, educated in England and able to fly jets including fighter jets, he regularly flies to Kentucky for the thoroughbred sales and would be shooting himself in the foot by allowing ANY impropriety to happen to american ports, this man is an honourable man who employs lots of workers on his stud farms in England, Ireland and America, no person involed with any UAE country would harm american ports or be involved with terrorism.
As an act of goodwill the UAE firm involved has agreed to delay things until it has been discussed properly, most of the UAE arms will have been purchased fron american defense firms..

There is nothing to worry about here...if these UAE citizens ever wanted to attack america in any way they could have done so years ago, safe as houses..

Hope everybody has a great week and may God bless everyone at PIP..

Goldenrose.

Desire for nothing except desirelessness,hope for nothing except to rise above all hopes, want nothing and you will have everything.avatar Meher Baba.

Balladeer
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33 posted 02-26-2006 07:51 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

It's not fair that you're solely pointing fingers at Democrats in that they were passive on the British deal. I don't recall either party making a peep on that deal, no Kerry's, Kennedy's and Boxer's, and no Frist's and Hastert's and Burns's.

I think that is Alicat's point, Noah. Now the Kennedys, Boxers, Kerrys and Clintons ARE screaming about foreign ownership...where were they on the British ownership? Did slick Willie have a problem with that?

Did you even know that the British own them at this point? I confess I didn't. Why? I don't recall the press or congress making it any big deal...now all of a sudden they go bonkers. Is it over foreign ownership, is it over Arab profiling, or is it over Bush (yet again)?
LeeJ
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34 posted 02-27-2006 07:40 AM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

this is exactly my point...we are constantly fueding...with opinions directed at the other party and party members...we are contaminated by this divide and will continue to be as such until we understand a bigger picture...and expanded states of awareness...we constantly feel the need to defend corruptness...basically b/c as humans, we hate to be told we're wrong, so we argue a point, kicking the dog until it's dead and still keep kicking it.

These problems which are occuring have been created.  We are supposed to be caretakers...but we've become a lazy nation of money mongers...fighting amoungst our selves over political rights...opinions, etc.  

The US was once a powerful nation, in military, manufacturing, technology, etc.

We are not only selling our ports here...we are selling off our rights...and everything our forefathers lost their lives over...

I had no problem with a British Based Country owning our ports...but to sell our ports to the Saudi's in my opinion, is digging our own graves.  The Saudi's may seem friendly now.  As in every culture, there are good and bad people, just like here in the US, but what happens if someday, that good faith is violated.  We are not only dealing with a country that is tied to terrorist connections...money, etc...but, a primitive culture...one of which will take years and years to change. (not that I think we should change it) (and I think we're finally starting to realize that by our prensence in Iraq)  

You cannot change a culture in months, it takes years of evelution...and if the Saudi's become irritated by something we do...remember, we have outsourced most of our manufacturing to other countries...it would be a darn good way to cut off the US from receiving those containers of products we have now become dependent on.

We're giving everything away in this country, b/c we are soft bleeding hearts....and it will one day, result in our own demise...b/c we are to fat and lazy, we want to be paid for little work, and we don't want to get our hands dirty.  If we dont' totally destroy ourselves, we will once again, learn, someday, that it's not about money....

We can't as a culture stick together fight for our rights...our governments world wide have become so corrupt...the democrates and republicans are both corrupt...we don't live in a deeper level of reality...and understand the larger picture, looking down the road to expand awareness...instead, we've become a nation of quick fixes...instant gratification...and we're broke...I mean really broke.  

Wait until after the next election...

Golden Rose, there is more here then what meets the eye, and I am scared...we're selling the soul of our country...and it's been going on for a long long time. We want to believe that everyone is good, and everyone in the world is looking for a better way of life, so we open up our boarders to them, we're freakin bleeding hearts...and it will one day come to be, that the US will no longer be ours...they want our land, our enterprises, and they've been working for years to do so...and we;re buying it, cuz we're broke....
Our military is weak, federal funding of agencies are almost just as bad as the people running them...
we will come to a point of no return...and we're off in so many other countries...instead of making our own country safe, and secure, not to mention, our futures...financial and otherwise.

I just somehow feel deep inside, this is a bad move, and it's a strong feeling...I can remember years ago, the controversy over selling our ports to the British...same thing happened...people were appalled...but this is different...this is a terrorist based country.  Does anyone realize, the Bin Lauden family is from there, very rich...and good friends with our commander in chief.  Its been known for years, that the Bush family has been in bed with the Arabs...they are both very wealthy oil people.  So, on this one, I do not believe our own president didn't know about this.  Especially after he said, I will veto any bill that denies this sale?

Our own security has admitted that we only have enough funds and human power to check only 5% of these containers...

[This message has been edited by LeeJ (02-27-2006 11:27 AM).]

Juju
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35 posted 02-27-2006 09:33 AM       View Profile for Juju   Email Juju   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Juju's Home Page   View IP for Juju

I agreee with Lee,  selling or ports to other countries is a very bad idea.  Even if we still have our security,  the moment we start leasing our country really the less we own of it.  its called the monopoly effect.  when I would play monopoly with my mom, when ever I was about to go negative my  mother would ask for "free stayss" and I believe those free stays are what hurt the most.  I see this more as a financhal mistake then a security at the moment, but still it is money and money, unfortunitly makes the world go round. once the oil goes dry, so will there money. lets keep it that way...

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Alicat
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36 posted 02-27-2006 04:16 PM       View Profile for Alicat   Email Alicat   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alicat

Goldenrose, this may be the first time I agree with you.     You do raise some very valid points, many of which I heard later on Rush Limbaugh.  Now, I don't listen to yack radio, but my mom sure does...every waking hour of every single day.  Even carries battery operated radios around while walking through the house, but I digress.

Call me a whacko neocon conspiracy theorist if you want, but I think the driving force behind the political outrage on both sides of the aisle stems from labor unions and similar political action committees and lobbyists.  I'm sure the dockworker unions had no problem at all with British ownership and management of US ports, since Britain has a long history of being pro-labor.  I don't think the same can be said of the UAE.  Quite the opposite, in fact.  So those dockworker unions really don't want UAE ownership or management, since if they go on strike and walk off the job they might very well find themselves without a job.  Yanno, just like anyone else would who walked off a job.  And so they flex their significant political muscle to get their bought Senators and Representatives to block this transaction under the guise of National Security.

If those against it are so concerned with National Security, then they might as well remove UAE ownership and management of construction firms and hotel/resort chains in the US.  And then kick out Canada, Britain, Ireland, every country in the Arabian Penisula, Germany, France, Mexico, China, and then Texas, Illinois, and New York.  All those places had businesses/charities funding terrorists, had terrorists, have terrorists, and I know I missed a few locations.  Let's just lock down the country, impose economic martial law, and enjoy the fruits of isolationistic behavior.
Juju
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37 posted 02-27-2006 07:20 PM       View Profile for Juju   Email Juju   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Juju's Home Page   View IP for Juju

well,  I sopose you bring up a good point, I just in general don't like that they seel ports and stuff, but if it isn't saidi arabia and the state you said it is completly different story.
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38 posted 02-27-2006 08:05 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

they are oil men, have been for years...and as my family says, they're in bed with the Arabs.

we're becoming a weak nation, our technology our manufacturing...mostly comes from other countries.

The Bush family has really gone and done it this time.  They wine and dine a very powerful Saudi family.  

Bush is also very good friends with the Mexican President.  That is why nothing has been done about immigration.

The Bush family have been oil giants for years...and good friends, very good friends with a very powerful family in Saudi Arabia.  This was a blatant attempt to bring in under the radar..

the Bush family owns large amounts of stock in Channels 3, 6, and 10...and none of those channels were reporting this until it became big news...first reported by Lou Dabbs.

We have opened a can of worms that I fear has and will continue to put us in danger of a complete take over of this country.
  
Bush and his administration scare me...and when all is said and done, after the next election, all the books and information will start surfacing, and Bush will go down in history as the worst President of the United States.

Does anyone realize, the Bin Lauden family is from there, very rich...and good friends with our commander in chief.

Its been known for years, that the Bush family has been in bed with the Arabs...they are both very wealthy oil people

  I'm not here to bash parties or to argue views..  (oh, really????)


We've deteriorated as a nation...our agencies are a joke...we are out of money...we have farmed out the manufacturing of our products to other countries...our properties, our businesses, and I haven't even touched base on our banking systems.

we are weak minded and way to concerned about what others think, I think

Another really frightening thing is our agencies, that have been depleted or are being deleted.

immigration, security, femma....it seems no one knows their job..

Its sad...sad what our country has come to,

We are becoming a weak nation

we've become a lazy nation of money mongers...fighting amoungst our selves over political rights...opinions, etc.

The US was once a powerful nation, in military, manufacturing, technology, etc.

We're giving everything away in this country, b/c we are soft bleeding hearts....and it will one day, result in our own demise

we are to fat and lazy, we want to be paid for little work, and we don't want to get our hands dirty.

we've become a nation of quick fixes...instant gratification...and we're broke...I mean really broke.

.we're selling the soul of our country

we're freakin bleeding hearts...and it will one day come to be, that the US will no longer be ours..

Our military is weak, federal funding of agencies are almost just as bad as the people running them..
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---------------------------------------------

Lee, with all due respect,  I'm glad I don't live in the same United States you do. Your statements are filled with factless derrogatory ramblings here....and you ask for someone to ease your mind? I don't think that's what you really want at all, rather someone to agree with your views that the country has gone to hell, Bush is the devil incarnate and we are all on the verge of destruction. If one were to ask you to provide facts on some of the outlandish claims you have made here, would  you be able to provide them? Or are these just your feelings that you portray as certainties?

We were discussing this issue yesterday at work...one gal walked in on the conversation...and said, after listening to us...geeze, you guys ought to talk about something more positive.  She's young and doesn't understand..

I submit that she may understand better than you. I would suggest that you allow a little positivity into your thinking instead of the fall of the United States and the destruction of our values scenario you seem to dwell on. Until that time, perhaps a switch to decaf might help
LeeJ
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39 posted 02-28-2006 07:41 AM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

Hi Deer and Good Morning…

Thanks for responding and for your opinion…and I'd like to apologize, not for my opinions...but, in the event that I've offended anyone.

The gal that I spoke of at work, is one of many in this country who says she refuses to watch the news or be informed by what is going on in the US…same was said by some people during 9/11, it’s a lack of an ability to face reality, fear about facing what is going on.  She didn’t even know about the issue of the UAE purchasing our ports.  We had to inform her about it.    Some people don’t want to know…and I can’t blame them…it’s their choice, as an American Citizen to be informed or not.

I’m not asking for someone to agree with my views…I started this thread for people to comment and vent…and my statements are not idle derogatory ramblings…it’s what I’ve seen, heard, read, and strongly believe…both through experiences, and gathering information, since the 2nd term of President Bushes rein.  By listening to the news…objectively and reading.  Shoot, I voted for Bush the first time…but not for his 2nd term.   And I never said Bush was the devil incarnate, although, my personal opinion is….that he will go down in history as the world’s worst President of the United States.

As far as the ports are concerned…time will tell, I suppose, and I could very well be wrong, and you sir, may be right…

Deer, again…let me remind you, I’m an independent…so I’m not on either side…but when Clinton stepped out of office, this country was out of the red, and had a surplus.

The US is now Broke.

Ali…you might have a point there about Union Labor…but I strongly feel selling our ports to a country who has strong ties to terrorists, well I suppose time will tell, who is right and who is wrong.

I’m outraged by this port issue, but, I could be wrong…to be honest…I hope I am wrong…but if I’m right, I suppose it won’t matter by then, who is right and who is wrong…will it?

Bottom line, I started this thread to vent…but honestly, Deer, I don’t really care, who agrees or who doesn’t.  I don't need people to agree with me to deem myself acceptable or happy.  And at this point in time, I stand firmly by my statements and sorry if I touched a nerve.  But, I do believe this administration has done grave damage to our system.  Time will tell, after Bush leaves his chair, and other takes his place...then, you will begin to hear more of what I've stated above...and again, perhaps I was misinformed by all the news hype and disenchanted poliltical groups, media, & journalists?  We'll see, won't we?  

This is still the nice thing about our US of America…we get to choose what we believe in…we get to stand by our views…and we get to talk about our views and heart felt beliefs…openly.  

Besides, I thought that is what this forum was for, to rant and rave about things that are bothering us???  Presently, this administration, really scares me...and so does it's leader

I’d also like to add, if I’ve offended anyone here, I apologize…
I’ve spoken my mind, and it sure feels good to say so.  You see, for years, I was married to a man who wouldn’t allow me opinion, or to speak outwardly or openly….and if I did so, he publicly humiliated me, or worse….and so, to me, this forum has been not only an awakening for me, but it has given me back some form of identity and brought me from silence & fear of speaking, into an open world again…I will never always be right,..I know that, but the ramblings have been  for me, a God sent, gifting me the ability to regain my opinion and for that I say…God bless you Ron and thank you for that.

Deer, all I’ve stated I feel is very true…and I believe the ramifications of what we have done to ourselves…will serve a grave outcome…again…I hope I’m wrong….and if I am, remind me to be the first one to admit it…ok.  And we do live in the same U.S.     and there is a lot of good about our country...especially those who like yourself, are not afraid to stand up for what you believe in...

Many thanks to all of you for your contributions to this thread…

Sincerely
Lee J.


[This message has been edited by LeeJ (02-28-2006 09:54 AM).]

Balladeer
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40 posted 02-28-2006 03:15 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Good afternoon, Lee....and you haven't offended anyone. As you correctly stated, this is the place to rant and rave and vent if that's what one needs to do to get things out of one's system. You do it well!!!

You asked for someone to say something that would ease your mind. The only thing I can say is to try to go the extra step in your deductions. Instead of just writing catch-all phrases, try to apply a litttle reasoning to your comments or accusations. It will either help you to have a better understanding of why you feel the way you do or it will suggest that perhaps your views are unfounded or based solely on a fear you can't name.

Since Bush is an oil man that's puts him in bed with the Arabs? and it has been known for years? Please explain that to me. The Bin Laden family is from there and good friends with Bush? What is that suppose to mean? Bush certainly didn't take money from the Bin Laden family to give a speech condemning the US administration, like Gore did. Do you really think that Bush would have the power to shut up three major news networks just because he's a stockholder? Why didn't he shut them up for the dozens of other attacks against him? Our agencies are being depleted or deleted? How many? Which ones? No one knows their jobs in immigration or security? What do you base that on? We're a lazy nation of money mongers? How are we - and how long have we been that way? We do not have a powerful military anymore? We are not a major force in manufacturing or technology? Where do you come up with that reasoning? We are broke? Our economy is the best it's been in over 20 years, as are our unemployment figures. Tell me how we are broke. We want to be paid for little work? I know many people that work very hard for what they have. We are selling the soul of our country? What of all of the soul pieces that were sold before Bush? It's been going on for decades....and it's not our soul.  All people running our federal agencies are bad, as well as the agencies? Which ones? How many? Our banking system? What's wrong with it?

These are all rhetorical questions. I'm not expecting you to answer them. Hopefully, what  I'm doing is trying to point out to you that much of your angst is self-produced and if you will take the time to try to reason things out and justify your comments you may get that relief you seek by realizing that just maybe it is not as dire as what you read and reproduce in conversation. You dwell on the bad and your co-worker looks for the good. What are the odds she is happier than you are generally?

None of my comments are aimed at you in a personal way. I think you're terrific! I'm just saying that if you really want some relief from the fear that has you so scared, gie a little reasonable thought to your arguments and run from cliches. Think things out on your own and don't let headlines rule your mindset....and I still suggest decaf.

LeeJ
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41 posted 02-28-2006 03:25 PM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

I've been drinking decaf for years...

thanks for the feedback...and for your kindness...

I don't take it personal, you have a right to believe what you believe...and who you believe in...that's what makes this country grand...diverse...and I'm not quoteing headlines...it's my opinion...my belief...my fears....and I'm not alone in feeling this way...in that you can believe.

I will again say, perhaps I'm wrong...I surely hope so.

sincerely
Lee J.
Juju
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42 posted 02-28-2006 09:17 PM       View Profile for Juju   Email Juju   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Juju's Home Page   View IP for Juju

ballideer I was beeing sarcastic

-<>-~-<>-~-<>-  
*    Juju     *
-<>-~-<>-~-<>-

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43 posted 02-28-2006 09:39 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

i no.
iliana
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44 posted 03-01-2006 02:07 PM       View Profile for iliana   Email iliana   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for iliana

PIP is a wonderful place, you know that!!!  I briefly scanned this thread and though I don't agree exactly with everyone's opinions, the one common thing I find is a deep concern for the direction of this country.  

Not only have we sold off to the Arabs, but we've sold to anyone who will buy including the Chinese, Japanese, Germans....that's the way of capitalism.  Capitalism knows no boundaries.  Capitalists convince us that in order to survive, we have to work for stock-owned companies and that in order for us to make a decent wage, we must abide by decisions of management and ultimately, the BOD, including outsourcing our own jobs.  It is plain old bottom-line greed that has sold out our country, and we have become a nation of slaves to the almighty dollar! It seems to me that before Capitalism became global, that it worked, but now, this global economy, as they call it....well, it is destroying this country!

The sad thing is that I don't have the slightest idea of how to fix it.  I went into business for myself after 911 because I did not want to work for any "establishment" any longer.  Perhaps, small business enterprise is the way out of this mess for many more, but I don't know how that will protect our ports, borders, airlines, etc.  

As for the port thing, I have mixed feelings.  I agree mostly with what Noah has presented.  Perhaps the best thing Bush has brought to this country is "opening our eyes."  In order for our eyes to open about what has already happened (even before 911), it has taken his BLATANT disregard for common man and his highly visible regard for those with means.  OK, now eyes are opening.....what do we do?  Pay attention and be a squeeky wheel....unfortunately, the squeekiest wheels are those with money enough to lobby.  I suppose when millions of people flock to Washington, D.C., waiving signs and shouting slogans, "down with lobbyists, down with lobbyists," maybe one or two would hear and worry about the polls next election.  BUT what else can we do?  Hey, maybe that's it.  NO LOBBYING....only protesting allowed.  Then the whole nation would know what's going on -- no more closed door deals.

Lee, I'm with you.  I think Lou Dobbs should run for President!  I even emailed him and told him that....lol.  

As to those in power, I think money corrupts, or maybe a better way to put it is that it puts blinders over the eyes of those with it.  They either never felt deprivation in the first place or have forgotten what it feels like, and as long as they are okay, well that's the bottom line.  There are a few exceptions to this case, don't get me wrong -- we just need more exceptions.  So....maybe that's it....the only way to wake up "those people" is to make it profitable....how do we do that?
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45 posted 03-01-2006 02:59 PM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

Thank you so much for responding and for your insights Iliana...I'm happy you contributed to this thread.

Thank you for sharing
iliana
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46 posted 03-01-2006 05:29 PM       View Profile for iliana   Email iliana   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for iliana

Deer questioned:  "Since Bush is an oil man that's puts him in bed with the Arabs? and it has been known for years? Please explain that to me. The Bin Laden family is from there and good friends with Bush? What is that suppose to mean? Bush certainly didn't take money from the Bin Laden family to give a speech condemning the US administration, like Gore did. Do you really think that Bush would have the power to shut up three major news networks just because he's a stockholder? Why didn't he shut them up for the dozens of other attacks against him? Our agencies are being depleted or deleted? How many? Which ones? No one knows their jobs in immigration or security? What do you base that on? We're a lazy nation of money mongers? How are we - and how long have we been that way? We do not have a powerful military anymore? We are not a major force in manufacturing or technology? Where do you come up with that reasoning? We are broke? Our economy is the best it's been in over 20 years, as are our unemployment figures. Tell me how we are broke. We want to be paid for little work? I know many people that work very hard for what they have. We are selling the soul of our country? What of all of the soul pieces that were sold before Bush? It's been going on for decades....and it's not our soul.  All people running our federal agencies are bad, as well as the agencies? Which ones? How many? Our banking system? What's wrong with it?"
________________________

Take a look at some of these if you have a chance.  
http://www.sptimes.com/2003/01/03/Columns/Another_suspect_deal_.shtml
http://www.buzzflash.com/perspectives/bush_harken.html
http://www.americanfreepress.net/10_07_01/Bush___Bin_Laden_-_Georg                      e_W__B/bush___bin_laden_-_george_w__b.html
  http://www.texasobserver.org/showArticle.asp?ArticleID=480
http://www.boston.com/news/politics/president/bush/articles/200          4/04/23/us_saudi_ties_eyed_in_presidential_race/

And Deer -- Michael Powell opened up the way for controlled media through his appointment by G. W. Bush to Chairman of the FCC in 2001.  See, http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,88394,00.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Powell_(politician)

His derulations rulings have made it literally possible for the media (and all communications) to be controlled by the highest bidders (creating massive monopolies) -- that includes radio, TV, newspapers, any form of communication including phones.  Now what I want to know....lol....is who owns the three major media companies that America watches, reads and listens to and who sits on their boards.

I know you didn't want an answer to the questions you posed to LeeJ, but there are many ways to find them and the above are just a very, very few.  The more one looks, the more one finds to substantiate some of the things LeeJ has expressed.  I find it interesting that both he and his father, Colin Powell, have resigned from the Bush administration.  

Deer...this is not meant to antagonize just to support some of Lee's contentions.  

[This message has been edited by iliana (03-01-2006 11:06 PM).]

iliana
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47 posted 03-01-2006 06:24 PM       View Profile for iliana   Email iliana   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for iliana

Oh, and if you don't think this country is in trouble economically, please look at this:
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/
Balladeer
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48 posted 03-01-2006 11:11 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Well, your first link is not active. Let's take a look at the others.

BuzzFlash
----------------
Here are some of t he other stories BuzzFlash ran:

Bushed: The Truth About Bush's Accomplishments - The unvarnished truth about the damage George W. Bush is causing to our citizens, our country and our world.

The Worst President and His Management Claims - Debunking an Email full of Lies.

The Bush Family Values Center - The Bush family is a LOT different than the campaign ads want you to believe. Perhaps they should change their last name to Hypocrisy.

The Bush Family and Republican Corruption


A little biased, wouldn't you say? I can come up with the exact opposite things by referencing right-wing publications.

American Free Press
------------------------------

Opened and closed in 2001, warning the world about a New World Order....your article is 5 years old.

Texas Observer
-----------------------

The article looks for possible ties between Bush and the Bil Laden family and ends with:

"It is a daunting task to unravel the ties between Texas and Saudi oil money, as well as the ties between the Saudi royal family, the bin Laden clan and Osama bin Laden. In this regard, the people of Saudi Arabia and the United States may share a common fate. We may never know the half of it."

In other words, we can't prove anything we say here.
I don't really understand the signifigance of this article, anyway. What would any financial tie between the Bush and BinLaden clans mean?

Boston.com
------------------

Can't access the page but i can imagine what anything from Boston would have to say about Bush   Nor can I understand the point of Michael Powell. That means Bush controls the media? As has been discussed in many threads before, the media is definitely pro-left. They have barbequed Bush at every opportunity, taking their lead from whatever the Democrats have dictated as newsworthy. If Bush runs them, I'd say he's lost control!

I'm sorry but I don't see almost any of my questions you reprinted addressed. Your examples deal with Bush and a stock deal and business ties with the Bin Laden family.

"Our agencies are being depleted or deleted? How many? Which ones? No one knows their jobs in immigration or security? What do you base that on? We're a lazy nation of money mongers? How are we - and how long have we been that way? We do not have a powerful military anymore? We are not a major force in manufacturing or technology? All people running our federal agencies are bad, as well as the agencies? Which ones? How many? Our banking system? What's wrong with it?"

I didn't see answers relating to any of those questions.

As far as the National Debt clock is concerned, what is it?

The National Debt is the total amount of money owed by the government; the federal budget deficit is the yearly amount by which spending exceeds revenue. Add up all the deficits (and subtract those few budget surpluses we've had) for the past 200+ years and you'll get the current National Debt.   So the figure you see is what has been acculmulated for over 200 years.

As you can see, the largest slice of the pie, over 40%, is owed to the Federal Reserve Bank and to other government accounts; that is, this part of the Debt is owed by one part of the government to another. The remaining 60% of the Debt, roughly $3.3 trillion, is privately held.

The above information is from the June 1999 issue of the "Treasury Bulletin", a quarterly publication of the U.S. Treasury


So what does that mean? It means that almost half of the figure you see is simply one part of the government owing money to another part of the government.  So how is that economically destructive to us? Besides, your example is from 1999, seven years ago. Hmmm....who was president then?

it has taken his BLATANT disregard for common man and his highly visible regard for those with means.   I contend that the "common man" is much better off thanks to Bush. I always find it amazing that Republicans are always painted as being for the rich by the Democrats, who actually ARE always for the rich. The common man has no complaint with Bush as far as the economy is concerned.

we have become a nation of slaves to the almighty dollar!   Perhaps LeeJ will share a cup of that decaf with  you   We are hardly a nation of slaves. You and I both, being small business owners, know better than that. We live in the strongest, most stable economy in the world and we have more freedoms and opportunities than anyone alive. To anyone who preaches doom and destruction and our country going to hell in a handbasket, I say go outside and look around and appreciate what you see. No president, good or bad, has the ability to take that away.
Alicat
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49 posted 03-02-2006 12:28 AM       View Profile for Alicat   Email Alicat   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alicat

Well, going by some of the logic presented, President Bush has had an even longer presidency than FDR.  Six of his own years, as well as being President during President Clinton's Administration for every bad thing that happened from 1992-2000.
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