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Horses Slaughtered!!!

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A Romantic Heart
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0 posted 02-07-2006 08:52 PM       View Profile for A Romantic Heart   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for A Romantic Heart

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11220454/

WASHINGTON - Horse slaughter for meat will continue in the United States, despite votes in Congress to halt the practice, the Agriculture Department announced Tuesday.

American horse meat is sold mostly for human consumption in Europe and Asia, although some goes to U.S. zoos.

Congress didn’t ban horse slaughter outright. Instead, lawmakers used a tactic that is common in spending legislation. Horses must pass inspection by department veterinarians before they are slaughtered, so lawmakers voted to yank the salaries and expenses of those inspectors.

Department officials maintain the law requires inspections regardless. They announced Tuesday they will pay for live horse inspections by charging fees to slaughter plants.

Rep. John Sweeney, R-N.Y., denounced the decision, saying that “commerce and greed have ruled the day.”

“To end this practice, Congress, with widespread public support, passed this amendment by a landslide vote in both the House and the Senate,” said Sweeney, who serves on the House Appropriations Committee. “This action is a direct defiance of congressional intent.”

The department acted on requests from slaughter plants, two in Texas and one in Illinois, which said their communities could be facing $41 million in losses.

Compared to the huge beef, pork and poultry industries, horse meat is a tiny business: Plants slaughtered about 88,000 horses, mules and other equines in 2005, according to the department.

In letters to Sweeney and other lawmakers last month, department lawyer James Michael Kelly pointed out Congress did not address other elements of the inspection system.

After live animals are examined and slaughtered, the Federal Meat Inspection Act requires separate inspections of carcasses and of meat. Lawmakers did not prohibit those inspections, Kelly said. He added that a separate law allows fee-for-service inspections for more exotic animals, such as bison, deer, elk or rabbits.

The new fee system will go into effect on March 10, the department’s Food Safety and Inspection Service said Tuesday. The agency will accept public comments on the system through March 9.

IS ANYONE ELSE UPSET OVER THIS??????

[This message has been edited by Ron (02-07-2006 09:07 PM).]

Mistletoe Angel
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1 posted 02-07-2006 09:15 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

Well, being a vegetarian, I truly am upset over any particular animal being slaughtered for food. I became one a few years ago because of things like this in general, where I feel meat companies and ranches are abusing their livestock and animals ever so much, where too many chickens are placed in overcrowded cages with their feathers and talons stuck and scarred ever too often, things like that, and I converted because I felt guilty I was contributing to that even if I didn't mean to.

However, I also recognize, respect and accept that a majority of cultures worldwide do eat all kinds of animals. Even my own Cherokee and Lakota Native ancestors from some of my mother's side of the family condemned mass slaughterings, but also believed it absolutely moral to hunt as long as proper, ethical guidelines were followed in the hunt, in killing the animal the right way and seeing to it you ate everything, shared it among your extended family and gave the animal a proper blessing.

So I guess my response here is conflicted. I will never eat meat again and certainly am nauseated and don't like what I hear here personally, but I also have no right to speak for all those who do eat meat in the world. I agree in our culture it feels unthinkable and insane how some even think about eating horses and dogs, but in other countries like Korea, they do eat dogs there, and I certainly don't believe that means they are far less moral than we are, even if I will never do so.

It is a complicated issue, as indeed there are some who condemn the production of foie gras but do eat chicken and such, etc. and while I don't agree with these slaughterings of horses and such, others do, and I suppose in the end the best way to protest this practice is to just swear you'll never eat horse meat and campaign to see to it that if the slaughter will be done just as it is with other animals, at least they're treated with dignity before it is done like some of my native ancestors did.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton


"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

Mother Teresa
LeeJ
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2 posted 02-08-2006 01:08 PM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

I agree with Noah on many of his opinions...although I'm not a big meat eater, I do from time to time.  And I hunted as well, once...and have known only responsible hunters who do hunt for the meat and/or donate to the needy.  As far as slaughtering horses for meat, they've been doing it for years for dog and cat food.
There used to be a plant not far from my home town, and it did make me sad to see the horses in their fields knowing time for them was limited.

I love animals...had a few horses of my own...the problem is, they do grow old, lame, etc.  Then what.  I didn't realize it then, but as a child my uncles who were both trainers, breeders, showmen, etc. reminded me that a horse was real, big and powerful and not Fury or the Black Stallion.  In other words in the real world, at my age now, I have come to realize...if an animal can feed people, then so be it.  Could I eat a dog or a cat, perhaps if I was hungry enough I could?  I dunno...point being, it is not in our culture to do so, but I have to wonder, who are we to deem another culture or others who go about this in the right way.

I am not for abusing animals...but in the same, believe it's important to remember, they are not people.  Yes, they have feelings, and feel pain, so to abuse them to me is a henous crime, adding, human life is and has to be first and foremost.  So we must try and remain realistic.  It always amazed me, when people were animal right activists, and yet they approved of abortion.  OK, don't throw tomatoes or tin cans at me...please.  Just my feelings.  

Let me put it this way...I can no longer hunt and haven't for years, but still do enjoy venison and fishing, although, now mostly I catch and release, if at all possible.

Used to have a dream...planned on being self sufficent with my own organic farm.  Feeding the animals nothing but pure grain...but then, realized, after raising them, could I really slaughter them for my freezer or to sell...Nope, and so, the farm idea fell through.  

Our neighbors had pigs and raised them for food.  I used to feed them...when they came to get those pigs for slaughter, I cried like a baby.  

Thank you for allowing me the opportunity to offer my thoughts and feelings to this forum.

Christopher
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3 posted 02-08-2006 02:24 PM       View Profile for Christopher   Email Christopher   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Christopher

horse, cow, sheep, pig, dog, cat, fish... does it really matter what animal it is? food is food, right? or do we just want to eat the dumb-looking, dirty ones?
Huan Yi
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4 posted 02-08-2006 05:21 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi


A horse is a horse
Of course of course
Until it becomes a steak or worst
And then at best with all that sauce
It’s fillet of Mister Ed

A Romantic Heart
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5 posted 02-08-2006 09:58 PM       View Profile for A Romantic Heart   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for A Romantic Heart

why don't we just eat eachother? after all it is just meat isn't it!

There has to be a line drawn somewhere!
Mysteria
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6 posted 02-08-2006 10:41 PM       View Profile for Mysteria   Email Mysteria   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Mysteria

Ever read "Lord Of The Flies?"  Did you hear of the Donner Party at all?  My all time favorite Sci-Fi movie, is "Soylent Green" where we actually do become food for the masses. We have, and do eat humans on occasion.  Myself included finds ways to eat what I want, not do without what I need, and somehow ignore or justify it       There is one Canadian that sticks to her guns on this subject that I am aware of, and that is is singer, K.D. Lang.  She won't even wear leather shoes.  

Century in and out, people will continue to complain about what is eaten yet flock to shoe sales, fur sales, or whatever is their fashion obsession.  

We may never get used to any of this, and I bet we will never stop it at least in my lifetime, as long as survival and greed are parts of the driving force of man's existance.  Of course it is not all about survival as there as two types of cannibalism, and  the famous Jeffrey Dahmer is one of the those cases of pathological, rather than sociological.
Marshalzu
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7 posted 02-09-2006 03:30 AM       View Profile for Marshalzu   Email Marshalzu   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Marshalzu's Home Page   View IP for Marshalzu

quote:
There has to be a line drawn somewhere!


I agree a line has to be drawn somewhere but why at horses and not at say cows or sheep?
A Romantic Heart
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8 posted 02-09-2006 07:07 AM       View Profile for A Romantic Heart   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for A Romantic Heart

I agree, I don't eat either one of those, I am not a meat eater myself~nor do I wear furs, leather etc.

Veggie

~ARH
Susan Caldwell
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9 posted 02-09-2006 12:40 PM       View Profile for Susan Caldwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Susan Caldwell

I love horses.

I eat meat...I actually love meat and have no guilt.

Now, if I have a choice, I'm not going to eat Mr. Ed.  however, if I am starving...pass me the plate!

"too bad ignorance isn't painful"
~Unknown~

LeeJ
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10 posted 02-09-2006 01:32 PM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

Susan, I agree with you...hunger, will drive you to do things you wouldn't normally do.

I don't really care who wears what, or who believes what, or their private practices, in faith and beliefs...what I do care about is, if I wear leather boots or a fur coat, I ask that you respect my beliefs as well...even if you think I'm wrong.  And thats another subject...

if someday God forbid, there is devestation in the world...and we are forced to revert to primative life styles to survive, believe me, you will do anything you can, to keep your children fed, warm and alive.  Even if it means killing an animal, slicing them open and putting your children inside to keep them warm and alive, you would.  And you'd feed them your pets if need be...a mother is becomes as desprate as any animal to provide for her cubs

ARH, there was a time in my life, I felt and believed exactly as you do, and there is nothing wrong with what you believe, think and feel...but please keep in mind, as you grow older, your priorities do change some what, you see things differently...more realistically...and weigh things on a different scale.  Some don't, some stay the same way they've always been...

in my case, and I'm only speaking about myself here...I grew up a lot...and see things so differently, and hope to continue to do so...

Human life, must be significant & sustained...it is first and foremost...even when it comes to cloths...
Change is inevidable...change keeps a mind active and healthy...

so if your a vegitarian like my brother, more power to ya...but also allow others to be who they are.  Just because one might think one way, and another, another way, doesn't make you right, or them wrong or visa versea...it's simply our personal culture, who we are and how we were raised...so I guess what I'm trying to say is, forgive me, cuz I don't know any better.  

Hugs to ya Lady, thanks a lot for the opportunity to voice opinion.  


Goldenrose
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11 posted 02-09-2006 03:56 PM       View Profile for Goldenrose   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Goldenrose

I agree with ARH we should draw the line and not eat horse meat, i know that horse meat is eaten over here in europe in places like france and belgium, where in some places they even cook the flesh in the horses own blood.
Speaking as a vegeatarian anyone who eats red meat deserves all of the health risks associated with eating it in later life can bring, a new study between vegetarians that dont eat meat and those that do eat red meat regularly showed the increased risk of bowl cancer.

An important post here..

well done.

Goldenrose

Desire for nothing except desirelessness,hope for nothing except to rise above all hopes, want nothing and you will have everything.avatar Meher Baba.

Mistletoe Angel
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12 posted 02-09-2006 04:27 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

Goldenrose, with respect, as much as it upsets me envisioning horses and other animals being slaughtered being a vegetarian, I also don't believe anyone in the world has the right to speak for everyone in what they can or cannot eat. I agree saying that itself can sound a little hypocritical in that cannibalism used to be much more common and in modern history is seen as cruel and savage, and you and I are also therefore animals, but it's because as time went on, civilizations now recognize that cannibalism is immoral and has become cultural understanding.

I do accept that though many in our country do not agree with eating dogs and pets, Koreans and probably other cultures do eat them, and just because they eat something we don't agree with doesn't make them less human than we are I believe, it's just their culture and beliefs.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton


"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

Mother Teresa
Christopher
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13 posted 02-09-2006 07:17 PM       View Profile for Christopher   Email Christopher   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Christopher

quote:
...a new study between vegetarians that dont eat meat and those that do eat red meat regularly showed the increased risk of bowl cancer.
is that the one that came out today, or was it the one that came out yesterday? possibly the day before that?

Really, for every study you show that can claim abstaining from meat products is healthier than a carnivorous diet, I can probably show you the same amount saying the opposite. The problems with many studies is that they end up showing exactly what the [scientists] were looking for in the first place because, well, they were looking for it.

I have yet to see any conclusive proof that a reasonable, logical, sensically balanced diet (anyone else notice that the recently released food pyramid still includes meat portions) isn't the healthiest way to go.

Goldenrose
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14 posted 02-10-2006 06:25 AM       View Profile for Goldenrose   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Goldenrose

Well i know for a fact that the vegetarian diet does not make people overweight like red meat or hotdogs do. Most vegetarians who have been veggie for a long period of time seem to live longer too. Too much colesterol from red meat increases the bodies ageing process. So you are maybe say 25 years of age but on the inside you would be 35, because of all of the colesterol associated with eating large amounts of red meat.

Noah i was not saying other people should eat this or that, i was saying that a line should be drawn by individual people's choices, it is up to them what they eat and why.

Personaly i cannot see why anyone would eat the dead carcass of an animal, the canabilistic analogy put forward by ARH is a good one, but then again there are tribes who have eaten humans before in the past.
Some of these tribes developed a sickness and began losing weight rapidly before dying, it was because they were consuming human flesh and their blood began to alter as a result. At one point scientists even began looking to see if this was the origin of the HIV virus and then spread outward.

As i said this practice of eating horse meat has gone on for a long time now in europe and will no doubt go on for a lot longer, i cannot see it becoming big on the streets of america though,there is too much beef  out there to sell first before selling horse meat in large amounts.

Goldenrose.


Desire for nothing except desirelessness,hope for nothing except to rise above all hopes, want nothing and you will have everything.avatar Meher Baba.
LeeJ
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15 posted 02-10-2006 07:30 AM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

My grandfather lived to be 101.  He not only ate red meat, but lard, bacon, and all the other foods they say are bad for you.  Remember the stuidies which came out years ago, saying eat margarine, butter is bad...or the egg scare associated with bad cholesterol.  The news media always comes out with these "new studies have found" but...they don't tell you out of what university, who performed the studies for how long and why, what prompted the studies?
Then 2 0r 3 years down the road, another study surfaces, contradicting the last one, as margarine is now supposed to be just as bad as butter.

Oh, and how bout wine, coffee...my grandfather drank one shot glass of red wine, his own, every night before he went to bed.  

Again...I owned & do love horses myself...realistically horses get old, they die, fact of life.  

If they can still serve purpose when they're gone, create food, then so be it.  There are people in 3rd world countries starving to death...I wish they had privy to the meat we all have.  

I can certainly sympathize as this is a very touchy subject for animal lovers...me being one of them, but everything must be addressed within reason, within reality...and a need to survive.

For instance, deer meat is very very low in fat, and would be an excellent source of red meat for heart patients?  I cannot understand why they never farm raised deer for that purpose, not to mention, to ship meat over to countries exploding with starvation.  

Let me ask you this, if you walked the land of Africa and you saw the hunger, disease and dispair, I really think you might feel differently
http://www.aworldconnected.org/article.php/389.html

As far as meat being bad for you...I don't agree, it depends on the body chemistry of the person, their DNA, what they've inherited from their parents... and if that person chooses to eat meat, it is not going to kill him/her, if that person executes a life style of understanding the words, "everything in moderation".

People are fat because our life styles have changed.  Kids don't get outside and play kick the tin can or hide and seek, or go to the pool, to the park and run...they sit in front of TV's and computers all day and so do a lot of us. We adults don't go out in the fields and work anymore, or pick fruits and can veggies and fruits...up at 4 a.m. milking cows, and doing all the chores that need be done before going to work.  Chopping wood, all that work kept people heathy in body, mind and soul.  It was invigorating work, but convenience has deemed that necessity no longer vital to sustain life.

Eating to live, is becoming a "living to eat" concept, due to our less active lives and the cliche of "comfort food" becoming a major concept of our minds.  Its becoming more of a habit of sitting down and eating rather then going outside and endulging in some kind of physical activty.

Animals are just that, animals...and they shouldn't be put in a catogory where they are first and foremost above human life.

Yes indeed, they should be cared for properly
and they depend on humans to live out a normal healthy life...but animals by no means should become first and foremost over human life.  

Again...not meaning to insult anyone here...it's up to you to eat what you choose to eat...but b/c someone else eats meat, horse meat, bear meat, deer meat, fish they catch, etc., doesn't make them bad people.  

Remember the culture years ago, was you ate what you hunted and animals were a necessity to sustain life and this is where the concept comes from...there are other countries who eat snakes, bugs, allegators, etc. to us, this might be repulsive. But it is their culture, what they grew up with, and we have no right to turn our noses up at them, labeling them as disgusting bad people?  

I don't hunt anymore, but have eaten moose, bear, venison, eel, fish, rabbit, antilope, mule deer...all quite tasty.  

It's your personal choice, prefrence & culture.  Grocery stores afford us the convenience of no longer having to butcher our own animals...but, as a child, everything we ate we raised, i.e. beef, pigs, chickens for eggs and meat, turkeys, white domestic rabbits, etc.  

Their furs were sold for clothes, hides for tanning, cows for milk, by the way, have you ever had fresh milk right from the cow? Yummy, and loaded with fat.  But at one time, we lived on that, making our own butter from the fat.

If one eats, drinks & exercises, within moderation they will be healthy, regardless...my grandfather grew his own grapes, made his own wine.  

They grew all there own veggies...canned them. I used to can over 50 jars of fruits and veggies a year, not to mention, blanching and freezing corn on the cob, peaches and berries.  You guys probably can't fathom the hard work and pride we took in doing so for our families.

It isn't what you eat, as much as how sensibly one eats...our bodies need a little bit of everything to sustain our health.  Necessary nutrients, minerals, vitamins, etc. & the old cliche, "you are what you eat" surely holds true.  I to, lean towards less meat, and more fruits and veggies, but do consume meat.

My only concern is when animals are slaughtered, they are slaughtered in the most human way that can be effective.  

And if someone owns an animal, geese, horse, cows, chickens, rabbits, cats, dogs...for a pet, they they need to take responsibility for that pet, not only in feeding them and caring for them properly, but also, restraining them so that they are not a nuisance to their neighbors.  But, that's another topic.

I suppose what I'm saying is, ARH, I certainly and respectfully understand your plight, feelings and understand why your upset about this, and you have every right to be...when I think about it, it hurts me to.

I'm not trying to say your wrong in your feelings, nor do I think anyone else is either, cuz lord knows, I've been there.  But man unfortunately needs to eat to survive.  

I've known kids who owned prize bulls that loved those bulls or their prize pigs, that they named and raised, just as much as we love our horses, but there came a day, when they to had to be butchered...and it's hard, really hard.  But, man needs food, clothes and shelter to survive.

So, I'm going to send you a hug, saying you are not wrong in your feelings or your plight here with this forum...its just simply a hard fact of life.  Honey, I don't like it any more then you do, believe me.

  


I hope I've helped to soften this subject for you some...

By the way, been meaning to tell you, I love your new picture, your a beautiful gal with a beautiful heart and soul.  

Hugs
Lee J.
Titia Geertman
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16 posted 02-10-2006 07:33 AM       View Profile for Titia Geertman   Email Titia Geertman   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Titia Geertman's Home Page   View IP for Titia Geertman

Mind you, I respect everybody's view, but there's one thing I never see mentioned in threads like these and that is:

What do you think will happen if all the horses or whatever animal was to be kept alive till it dies a natural death.

I'm breeding a very rare Dutch sheepbreed along with a lot of others, in order to preserve this breed from distinction.
If I should keep all those animals that are being born, my meadow will very soon be too small to keep them all alive. The rams will fight each other to death when growing up and I can tell you, that's not a pretty sight.

Yes, animals deserve our respect at all times and abuse them is a true crime, but they're still animals and puting them on the same level as mankind is not right. How nice your pet may be, he/she will bite you when you cross the line.

I had two very old ewes, 8 and 10 years old of wich I was very fond. Usually those oldies could stay till natural death, but this year I decided to slaughter them, why? Because they'd lost their theeth, wich means they wouldn't be able to consume food as good as is required to stay healthy. They eventually would starve themselves very slowly. The best thing I could do for them was to prevent that agony by puting them down.
I could've choosen for puting them down and picked up by the destructor, but what good will that do. I choosed to slaughter them and eat them. I gave them a good life and they give me back some delicious meat in return. Can't see anything wrong in that.

If we decided not to eat any animal anymore, than breeding them would have to stop. That's the consequence, there's no other way.
For every animal born, another has to go, that's nature's way of dealing with over-population.

I don't see any harm in eating animals, as long as they're treated with respect while they were alive and even the slaughtering has to be done respectfully and with the greatest care.

Long story to say: I rather eat my own animals, knowing I gave them a good life, than meat of wich I don't know where it comes from.
I don't mind hunters, when they're acting respectful towards the animals they shoot.
I'm against fox hunting, like they did in England, for mere pleasure, because they allow the dogs to tear up the fox in the end. That, in my opinion, is abusing the animal.

I'm not against slaughtering horses and eating their meat, if they've been treated respectful during their life.

Like scattered leaves...my words will flow

LeeJ
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17 posted 02-10-2006 07:55 AM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

ahhh Tina, good to see you and read your comments...which brings something else to mind...has anyone here ever watched the Grand National?  To me, that is abuse, inhuman and uncalled for.  To make a horse jump over those impossible jumps is just way to brutal.
  
latearrival
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18 posted 02-10-2006 02:49 PM       View Profile for latearrival   Email latearrival   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for latearrival

If you want to get on anyone's case about abusing animals we see it all the time. The "old women" who keep a house full of cats thinking they are doing a good service,and soon have to be evacuated from  the home because the animals ran wild and bred too much. Or people like Michael Jackson who keep huge animals for their amusement and then walk away. It goes on and on. Thank you Tita for your side of the story. It opens our eyes.
martyjo
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19 posted 02-10-2006 03:36 PM       View Profile for A Romantic Heart   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for A Romantic Heart

First of all I am against any hunting for sport only, oh yeah, what a big man got your big gun and smelling sauces,and whatever other manmade things to use to your advantage, when those defenseless animals have nothing to defend themselves with.Yeah thats a big thing, glad you killed that little rabbit, it would have killed you...good you defended yourself, what a challenge!
I live in a southern state, I have seen the cruelties of SPORT hunting, the redneck hunters who smoke the animals out of their holes, who blind them with spotlights so they can't see ,(yes this is illegal, but you tell me that the animal police are going to be everywhere at the same time to guard and protect, it can't be possible) and for what reason do they kill? so they can be a "BIG MAN" and hang it on their wall, makes me sick! They don't need the food, they do it for ego! entertainment!
  We live in a world blessed with food, fruits , grains, vegetables. It is not a "necessary" need for me to kill animals and eat them. Even if it was the end of the world, I am sure I could find fruit trees or have my stock of canned food from my garden. I grew up with grandparents that taught me how to garden and store food.I am also part indain, so I respect nature and the land, my indian ancesstors killed for food and clothing, they used and NEEDED the whole animal. Todays society we don't need that, we have synthetic manmade materials, and even food for that matter.
God gave us the authority over the animals and I believe we should use that authority wisely. God wouldn't want us killing for egos or awards to hang on our walls.
  Horses have a greater purpose than to be in the food chain. Lets kill all the horses, and then our gas consumption will leave us without any gas for our vechicles, then we will have to go back to the horse and buggie days,(BECAUSE OF A WAR OR RUNNING OUT OF RESOURCES) but oh, look, there are no horses left,  they have all been slaughtered.
  IF you notice the newsreport, the people who are eating them are the rich, not the starving, it is for greed and just because the rich want to try something different.
Well I don't know how true it is, but there was a rumour that the Japanese was cooking and eating human fetus's that was aborted? Once again, a fine delicacy for the rich....hmmm if you think about it, maybe that is what has been going on with missing children? I know some are sold into an underground sex trade.
Maybe they have been shipped for food as a fine delicacy overseas or maybe here, hey anything goes if you can make money, lots of money from it and the rich will buy it.
And we sit back and say well, its ok, doesn't concern me, that is their business.
  Yes I understand survival, and the need when and if it arises, but we are not talking about surviving, we are talking about money, and the rich, powerful, who are eating them for something new to eat, because they are so rich they get bored, for they have ate and tried everything else, who is to say tomorrow when they get tired of eating horses, they will try something else, they think they have the power and the money to do anything they want, that is why we have laws and rules and boundaries, to keep morals and judgements on track. If not we become the animals themselves feeding off of eachother, and I know that God gave us intelligence,(well some of us) and with that, we are above acting like animals, who by nature have to (physically) eat eachother to survive. Yes it is a dog eat dog world, but do we really have to eat everyting in our path and eat eachother? I believe there is a more respectful, intelligent approach, we as humans always have taken the easy road out. We need to use our resources wisely, before we are left with no resources at all.
It is this kind of behavior itself (greed and money) that will end the food chain, to where we will come down to eating and killing what we can to survive, think about it...
MAN WILL BE THE DOWNFALL OF HIS OWN DESTRUCTION!

[This message has been edited by A Romantic Heart (02-11-2006 01:46 AM).]

Christopher
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Purgatorial Incarceration


20 posted 02-10-2006 04:44 PM       View Profile for Christopher   Email Christopher   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Christopher

well that's a depressing thought...
Grinch
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since 12-31-2005
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Whoville


21 posted 02-10-2006 05:42 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


Goldenrose,

quote:
Well i know for a fact that the vegetarian diet does not make people overweight like red meat or hotdogs do.


You’re comparing apples with oranges (or hotdogs in this case) A normal balanced diet (including red meat and hotdogs) with sufficient exercise doesn’t make you overweight either.

quote:
Most vegetarians who have been veggie for a long period of time seem to live longer too. Too much colesterol from red meat increases the bodies ageing process. So you are maybe say 25 years of age but on the inside you would be 35, because of all of the colesterol associated with eating large amounts of red meat.


People seem to live longer if they don’t eat large amounts of red meat – agreed – people also live longer if they don’t eat large amounts of carrots. If you eat either in moderation you’ll be fine.

quote:
Noah i was not saying other people should eat this or that, i was saying that a line should be drawn by individual people's choices, it is up to them what they eat and why.


Thanks for saying it, I agree entirely– can everyone reading this take note, if you want to eat red meat please feel free to do so.

quote:
Personaly i cannot see why anyone would eat the dead carcass of an animal,


Personally I can’t see why anyone would want to eat grasshoppers but if they do fine (see above)

quote:
the canabilistic analogy put forward by ARH is a good one, but then again there are tribes who have eaten humans before in the past.
Some of these tribes developed a sickness and began losing weight rapidly before dying, it was because they were consuming human flesh and their blood began to alter as a result. At one point scientists even began looking to see if this was the origin of the HIV virus and then spread outward.


Cannibals eat members of their own species. unless you’re a horse or a cow the cannibalistic analogy isn’t a really good one.

ARH,

I don’t even know where to start.

quote:
I know that God gave us intelligence,(well some of us)


You’re going to have to give me some evidence.
Titia Geertman
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since 05-07-2001
Posts 5297
Netherlands


22 posted 02-10-2006 07:52 PM       View Profile for Titia Geertman   Email Titia Geertman   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Titia Geertman's Home Page   View IP for Titia Geertman


quote:
Horses have a greater purpose than to be in the food chain. Lets kill all the horses, and then our gas consumption will leave us without any gas for our vechicles, then we will have to go back to the horse and buggie days, but oh, look, there are no horses left,  they have all been slaughtered.


Who says all the horses will be killed? Are you really so naďve as to think we're going back to the horse and buggie days when there's no gaz anymore? Within a couple of decades our vechicles will be filled with bio gaz.

In my country it's rather common to eat horse meat as long as I can remember (and I'm in my sixties), there even are special horse meat butchers and it isn't at all only for the rich people.

Do you know what happens if rabbits aren't shot once in a while to keep a balance? Then nature takes over and gives those rabbits mixamathose (don't know the right English name for it) and that's a terrible rabbit desease, very, very painful for the rabbit and it goes blind. I too live in open country land and if I come accross one that has this desease, I kill it, because then it's out of it's misery and pain. It's not at all a pretty sight you know and for the rabbit it's pure agony.

Nature always takes over when species are outgrowing their space and nature has no mercy at all, not even for humans.

In some Asian countries they eat dogs and cats, in India it's a sin to even move a cow aside, the Aboriginals used to eat some kind of worms and probably some still do. The French eat snails, I saw a movie the other day, don't remember which country it was, but they ate very big spiders, leg by leg and they thought it a delicacy. It's just a way of looking at things. Just like Noah said.

quote:
Todays society we don't need that, we have synthetic manmade materials, and even food for that matter.


Who on earth wants to eat synthetic manmade food I'd rather eat the meat of my own sheep which is natural and pure.

Ok, I threw in my last two dimes on this matter. I respect everybody's choice in eating meat or not eating meat, but one thing in this thread got me wondering though:

You're all talking about 'red' meat, but I don't recall there's any other meat around that's colored otherwise (sorry, just a little joke)

Like scattered leaves...my words will flow

Goldenrose
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since 05-30-2003
Posts 3637


23 posted 02-10-2006 09:04 PM       View Profile for Goldenrose   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Goldenrose

There are some posters on here that should have more respect for others feelings and should not hurl veiled insults in the direction of those wanting nothing more than to join a discussion. This is why i rarely venture over to these pages anymore, always got the smart mouths.!!!!

Desire for nothing except desirelessness,hope for nothing except to rise above all hopes, want nothing and you will have everything.avatar Meher Baba.

Christopher
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Member Rara Avis
since 08-02-99
Posts 9130
Purgatorial Incarceration


24 posted 02-10-2006 10:04 PM       View Profile for Christopher   Email Christopher   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Christopher

respect isn't something you receive free of charge, it's a commodity to be earned and maintained.
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