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Passions in Poetry

why child molestation will continue

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Midnitesun
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0 posted 01-28-2006 05:47 PM       View Profile for Midnitesun   Email Midnitesun   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Midnitesun

http://www.newsregister.com/news/story.cfm?story_no=203547
when you read this news article, you may have the same reactions I did (see Open it's not ok posting)

I am filled with disgust, anger, disappointment, and frustration with ignorant people who are supposed to be intelligent, nurturing, protectors of our children.


This is an exerpt of the article:


A retired Linfield music professor and 35-year veteran of the Oregon Symphony was sentenced to just short of eight years in prison Friday for sexually molesting a preteen girl who looked to him as a surrogate father.

The sentence falls under dictates of Measure 11, which precludes early release on parole. So Warren Lovell Baker, 81, would be 89 upon completion of his 95-month term.

That pained a large contingent of supporters, whose impassioned expressions stretched the hearing into a four-hour marathon. But Baker's stepson, Lawrence Bochkis of Portland, was not among them.

"He deserves every punishment he gets," Bochkis said. "The guy's 81 years old, so he's probably not going to make it through his prison term. At least he's getting it in the end."

Bochkis said it infuriated him to see a parade of adults he'd grown to respect stand up for Baker. He said they made no mention of the harm Baker had done to this and other young women over the course of several decades.

He was especially disappointed in an appearance by Frank Nelson, a favorite philosophy professor from his days at Linfield College.

"Professor Frank Nelson, he teaches ethics for God's sake," Bochkis said. "These people are pillars in this community. But they don't have the moral fortitude to understand that his musical achievements are completely trumped by the fact that he ruined more than one child's life."

He said the delegation of supporters, which included deputy symphony conductor Norman Leyden and former college president Charles Walker, had stood up for a molester.

---

Thanks to the ardent support from former colleagues, Baker's four-hour sentencing hearing more resembled a tribute to his musical and academic accomplishments than it did any attempt to put the criminal acts he had committed into perspective.
Huan Yi
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1 posted 01-28-2006 09:01 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi


A man took a nine year old girl to wife
and he is today, centuries later, revered
by hundreds of millions . . .

latearrival
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2 posted 01-28-2006 10:26 PM       View Profile for latearrival   Email latearrival   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for latearrival

Absolutely disgusting. I do not know what has happened to today's society. It seems that because  we hear about this every day it is becoming accepted?
So very very sad. We all have to speak out and say it is not acceptable. martyjo
Local Rebel
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3 posted 01-29-2006 01:00 AM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

quote:

At least he's getting it in the end



My understanding is that inmates in general are none too tolerant of child abusers.  So, he's bound to get it in the end.  

Unfortunately I don't find it all that unusual for an entire community to attempt to conceal or excuse bad behaviour on the part of one of its own -- especially if it is a leading citizen.  It doesn't have to be child abuse either -- it could be something else entirely -- say, illegal wire tapping.
Fee
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4 posted 01-29-2006 08:10 AM       View Profile for Fee   Email Fee   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Fee

I agree, it is shameful.

I wrote a poem for my godchild who was molested. I will re- post it in the main forum for you.

No words to say what I feel should be the punishment for these inhumane animals.

Hugs Fee

Expressions,
are the most important aspects, they create impressions

0'.".'0  Just
((T))    Thinking
(..)(..) Of you
(```)_(```)

Grinch
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5 posted 01-29-2006 01:35 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


I agree, any person or organisation that seeks to mitigate such an offence or actively obstruct justice is, in my eyes, almost as low as the perpetrators of the abuse.
http://www.armchair.com/warp/abuse1.html
Midnitesun
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6 posted 01-29-2006 02:14 PM       View Profile for Midnitesun   Email Midnitesun   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Midnitesun

Thanks to each of you for reading and commenting.
I am still shaking my head and fist over the way some in our community continue to stand by this man, bragging about the good things he did.
Martie
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7 posted 01-29-2006 05:19 PM       View Profile for Martie   Email Martie   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Martie's Home Page   View IP for Martie

Unfortunately, it also continues because, so many times the abuser is a family member who is protected by the family.  I wish I didn't know first hand how this happens.  Thanks for this, Kacy!  
LeeJ
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8 posted 02-02-2006 01:00 PM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

there you go, thank you with all my heart for this...and agree with you totally!  Until people unit and once again, demand these people are made to suffer consequences for their actions, this will go on and on.  Someone once told me, people unite when they become angry or if there is a cathostrope (sp)?  and they do, but until we do unite, hound our congressmen, nothing will change.  People of the United States are asleep, and unfortunately, until it hits home, no one wants to come forward.  and yes, I know about the embarrasement, but somehow we have to change that concept of thought, b/c anyone who brings bodily harm against another is wrong, wrong, wrong.

Thanks so much for your care and your anger.  

Midnitesun
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9 posted 02-02-2006 04:42 PM       View Profile for Midnitesun   Email Midnitesun   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Midnitesun

thanks Martie and Lee
I was pleased to discover several others here locally who were as frustrated as I was with the amount of emotional support this man got, without equal time being given in the courtroom to somehow honor/console the victims.
Kaoru
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10 posted 02-02-2006 05:31 PM       View Profile for Kaoru   Email Kaoru   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Kaoru

"Our family views him as a role model," one woman said. "We support him fully."

He displays "Christian moral and ethical standards when working with students," an OSU professor said.


---------------------------------

wow.....

how is molestation moral or ethical?
Huan Yi
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11 posted 02-02-2006 07:40 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi


"wow.....

how is molestation moral or ethical?"

Who determines it molestation?

As I understand, it is contended he taken advantage
of his having
been seen as a father figure, which suggests
consent at the time.

As I indicated, Mohamed “married” a girl of nine,
( I've read nothing to suggest she felt anything
but honored), Mohamed who is revered by hundreds
of millions.
Eagar Allan Poe a girl of thirteen.

And how many now defend Michael Jackson sharing a bed
with little boys.

You live in a world where a woman can “terminate”
human life for the crime of being in the wrong womb.


I’m sorry to be harsh.

[This message has been edited by Huan Yi (02-02-2006 08:50 PM).]

Midnitesun
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12 posted 02-02-2006 07:56 PM       View Profile for Midnitesun   Email Midnitesun   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Midnitesun

"Who determines it molestation?

As I understand, it is contended he exploited his having
been seen as a father figure."

John? well, for starters? try talking to some of the victims, who were fondled unwillingly by their music teacher.

While I think I understand your thought train here, nothing you've written in any way
justifies what was done by this man, or by any man/woman who forces themself on another.
And I believe all the world's cultures need to stop child marriage.

Huan Yi
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13 posted 02-02-2006 08:52 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

K,

Where was it written that it was without consent,
that there was an "unwilling"
or that the state of victim
was not an after the fact judgment,
(it's  not only a girl who can come to that)?

Midnitesun
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14 posted 02-02-2006 09:46 PM       View Profile for Midnitesun   Email Midnitesun   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Midnitesun

I'm talking about REAL people here John, not numbers or statements. In this one case, many are still residents here locally, as are their family members. The hurt is very real, and the suffering will continue long after this particular trial is buried in the news archives.  
I certainly hope you aren't suggesting that even IF one consented, that this man's behavior was acceptable.
Ron
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15 posted 02-02-2006 10:09 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
Where was it written that it was without consent ...

The only consent that legally matters, John, is the consent of the parent or guardian. They're called children for a reason.

Society needs to protect people from predators. What society doesn't need to do, in my opinion, is to mask vengeance under the guise of protection. Justice fueled by emotion, either for OR against, is no longer justice.


Huan Yi
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16 posted 02-03-2006 01:05 AM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

www.ageofconsent.com/ageofconsent.htm

[This message has been edited by Ron (02-03-2006 02:09 AM).]

Ron
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17 posted 02-03-2006 02:08 AM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

Warning: If you choose to follow John's link above, you may encounter banner ads for porn sites . . . which may be an indication of the reliability of any information found there. I found several errors and wasn't really even trying. I have removed the live link, but will let the URL remain as plain text unless someone else objects.

Since John, as usual, presents his own opinions only through the words of others, we can only surmise his intent.

quote:
from their Definitions: NEW DEFINITION FROM HISTORY:  Source:   http://www.mc3.edu/gen/faculty/barmstro/devlin.html
The Age of Consent law is    " ... is to protect young girls against themselves ... "
So if you are female, then you should read this as an insult.  According to Judges when instructing juries -- you don't know how to make up your own mind - and to make your own decisions. Is that what we really want to communicate to young girls these days?

Absolutely.

Does anyone in their right mind really believe that a five-year-old should be allowed to get married, buy and sell property, or vote in national elections? No? No one? Please, John, speak up so we can all hear you (you can post a link to your answer, if you like). Good, then we all agree that young girls lack the maturity to make many of their own decisions.

The only question remaining is what arbitrary age should be chosen for a child to become an adult. The authors of this site John would use as an authority asks us what we would choose to communicate to young girls.

They could have said young women, but didn't.

Was that an oversight? Or does it perhaps speak to their real intent?


LeeJ
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18 posted 02-03-2006 07:42 AM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

I believe in our culture, an older man who takes a young girl under age of consent (18)has a very serious problem...I'm talking 25 -30 years or older?  

What in God's name could they be thinking?  What could they possibly have in common, and aren't they ashamed? How can anyone think an 18 year old child is mentally able to decide what they want to do for the rest of their lives?  

I don't care how honorable a man is or has been in his past...if he violates a child, hes crossed the line & cannot control himself...therefore posing a threat to society...and to all children.  Does anyone ever take into account and ask themselves, "How would I feel if it were "MY" 5 or even 10 or 11, 12, 13, 14, 15 year old child?"  

Let me say, you have no idea, unless you've been molested, of the after shock.  I believe human beings need to take responsibility for the moral care & respect of others & their hearts, not to mention they're lives...

Care and concern for not only human life, but how one effects other human lives.  Why is it, this is not taken into account and taught to every human being in our nation?
Along with this comes then, respect for oneself.  If one respects his/her self, he will respect others...and there should be fear of consequences of our actions...if this were instilled in the hearts and minds of society, and people were shamed by their actions...perhaps it might be a better world?

Actually, are we really thinking of the victims here?  That to me, also seems to become the issue.  All to often, the victims and the implementation upon the victims life, are not taken into account and forgotten...after a trial and a preditor is set free, does society remember the victim and what might be happening to that child's life, the fears that child must endure, does anyone tell that child that it's ok to be angry, it's not ok that this person did this to you...and it surely is not your fault?
I believe, this country should implement a law, that upon a child being taken by a preditor, there should be counseling for not only the child or children, but the family as well, so they can deal with it realistically and not sweep it under the carpet, pretending it never happened, b/c the child grows up feeling at fault.

Ron, one thing I disagree with, and perhaps I'm not totally understanding your point...but I believe to many people of this country are way to emotionally disconnected.  

Emotion should enter into view...anger, yes...anger that a grown man, who should no better, has violated someone's child for perhaps their entire life.  How would you feel Ron, if it were your child or you?  I'm not talking rage, vengence...but anger at the auldasity of a supposidly grown man/woman, sexually violating your world, and ya don't even know what's happening..why, its happening?  Both the child and the preditor, must be dealt with, one, hopefully rehabilation, and the other put away for life.









  
Huan Yi
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19 posted 02-03-2006 01:07 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

Ron,

I did not delve into the site, looking
only for one that would give what the
"age of consent" was in various states
and countries.  Please feel free for
example to confirm or refute 12,
( the age of the girl in question),
being the age of consent in Mexico and The Netherlands
but it was only to add to the other historical
examples sited, (is any one yet ready to accuse Mohamed
of anything; at least, what, a billion people would be
curious).  My sensitivity is to conjuring
the man in question, ( who I think was a
fool at best), being equivalent to a rapist.
The women teachers who have been caught sleeping
with their students out of "love" may be stupid,
but I don't see them the same as someone who drags
an innocent girl off the street into the back  of a car.


LeeJ
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20 posted 02-03-2006 01:20 PM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

Hi John, hope you don't mind me responding/ponder your input even though you addressed it to Ron...

your wrote:

The women teachers who have been caught sleeping with their students out of "love" may be stupid, but I don't see them the same as someone who drags an innocent girl off the street into the back  of a car.

I'm wondering, what is it in the human being that tends to dismiss the actions of a woman seducing a young boy?  

Children are very impressionable, and young boys are like little walking hormones with arms and legs...everyone knows that?  So why would it be any different b/c it's a woman and the victims are boy children?


Huan Yi
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21 posted 02-03-2006 02:40 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi


Lee,

I by choice or circumstance had led a relatively reclusive life
into my mid-twenties, yet even I by then had two women relate their
consensual sex lives as having begun when they were thirteen
and that would have been before the “sexual revolution”.  
Pregnancies among adolescents though not rampant were
frequent and I don’t imagine it was only to girls who did
it just once.  If it was stated that the man forced or coerced
the girl, I would join everyone in getting a rope for him
as I would for a 13 year boy, ( as anyone reading earlier
posts on threads would guess), but the article leaves the
impression of consent, ( I’m not even sure if the girl,
like some boys in the teacher situations, doesn’t still profess
affection for the man).  With that uncertainty and how
such a situation has been treated in different times
and cultures I'm not willing to join the call for blood.

John

[This message has been edited by Huan Yi (02-03-2006 04:35 PM).]

Midnitesun
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22 posted 02-07-2006 04:26 PM       View Profile for Midnitesun   Email Midnitesun   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Midnitesun

http://www.newsregister.com/news/story.cfm?story_no=203910
this is a followup to the Baker story

please, if you read any of this? read all the input, not just the first one
LeeJ
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23 posted 02-08-2006 08:41 AM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

John, calling for blood is sometimes necessary...we've seen that liberal minded thinking doesn't always work, although it is kind and Godly to do so, there are some basic facts, rules are rules and not made to be broken, there has to be some things a person just isn't allowed or supposed to do, otherwise, there will be consequences for their actions....people have to fear the consequences of their actions...otherwise, I'm afraid we'll become even more chaotic, then we are now, if things keep going the way they are.

Presently in Philadelphia, there have been 38 murders just since Jan 1st.  Last year, there were 872 or more, (in one year) (that was the last count I heard)  And a great majority of those murders were innocent bystanders...children!  Point being...I'm wondering how many cases of sexually abused children go un-noticed, it must be astronomical.  As much as some of us don't want to be the bad guy, we've got to start making decissions that do not protect the criminal and sexual abuse is a criminal act.  

Respectfully John, This topic is not about consensual sex....it is about sexual abuse....this country has to stop ignoring this crime, pretending it might go away.  Ashamed to talk about it or address it as it should be...referred to as a great violation against children.

I think, in both schools and at home, children should be taught it is inappropriate for anyone to touch them in speicific areas...I think, schools should have at least one class on how if they are touched, they should report this crime immediately...I think, they should be taught by parents and teachers, guidence councilors alike, collaberating to make life a little safer for them.  

I think, the news media should report more on this subject, along with the amount of children that are stollen and sold to third world countries for prostitution.  

I think America should wake up and educate themselves on this subject and support every child so that the streets and playgrounds may be safer for them to play.  

I think, Americans ought to say, we've had enough, and take the responsiblity to protect these little ones, so that they have an opportunity to live a somewhat normal life...

I think...anyone who molests or touches a child inapprpriately, both men and women, should be put away...why?  Because they are a menace to society and to communities of the US, to our children...and cause much pain, heartache creating problems with a child's growth, well being and mental confidence, not to mention a stagnation in his/her ability to fit in and succeed due to the guilt and embarrasement that child carries for years.

We need to do something about this...and stop turning our heads, pretending it will go away...it won't.  

I watched a program that had a man on, teaching children basic moves of self defence and things to help delay and make some noise so adults might come to help

I think, this type of show should be show over and over again...until parents merge this into their lives as a program for the entire family to discuss and practice.  

This is serious...not one child should have to go through his/her life, feeling they were to blame because some sleezy mal functioning sicko, touched that child inappropriately, without even thinking about the effects it could create that child, all he wanted to do was get his rocks off, with no concern about what he was doing, or no control over himself, thinking only about his needs at the expense of a child's loving heart.

Now, I'm sorry to be so blunt, but sometimes you gotta hit people with a 2 x 4 to wake them up.  These are our kids here?????  All of our kids?

We need to protect them, and in doing so, we make this place better for it...including the child's mental health.  

If you wish to call that a call for blood, then John, I'm all for it...cuz no one, has the right to touch an innocent child in that way...no one, King, or Pope or Priest, or Teacher.  

Children respect adults, depend on them for safety, comfort, guidence...what kind of person would take advantage of that glorious special pureness and defend his/her actions?  And worse, what kind of person would defend the actions or excuse the actions as said in this topic?????  I don't care how law abiding or God abiding this person was in the past...he/she crossed the line and attacked a child...

So what if a guy has to go to prision because he molested a child?????  He/she broke the law, he/she took advantage of a child and perhaps scars the child for life.  What about the children people????
Stop thinking of who the molester is, if he had a bad life...and start feeling sorry for the children who doesn't even know what a sexual experience is.  This is vile, and dirty and wrong...

and that's what I'd say to the public if I had the chance.  I am so sick and tired of hearing people, the news and hollywood, defend the criminal, making excuses for his actions, getting them off on good behavior, etc.  I cannot believe that people think more about the criminal then they do the victim.  They're first implimentaion is..."Oh, that poor man had a bad life"  To bad, we all had bad lives...but we wouldn't break the law and expect to be excused because we grew up rough, hard and abused or ignored?  Doesn't trade one for the other or excuse someone from breaking the law, or should!

I'd love to see the news media and Hollywood, show the life of the victims for once, after being victimized.  They don't, they report the story, twisting it so you feel sorry for the criminal/prisoners...what about the families of the victims??????  Its not ok and not working this way....?????  Put away these people and while they're in jail safely away from our children, I might feel a little sorry for them.

This just makes no one shread of sense to me.

ahhh hem...standing up, collecting myself, throwing my head back and saying, whew...glad I got that off my chest!!!

this was not anger, this are words of confusion and not understanding the logic of way Amercians think today or handle problems????  Always excusing the low life criminal...and God forbid if the criminal is of any other nationality then white????  God, your only allowed to show a certain percentage of interatial criminals on Cops???  What is that????

If you do the crime, buddy, in my book, you do the time!!  To many people are getting away with murder these days!  In more ways then one!

If you can feel my anger and outrage on how our country deals with these things, so be it...I'm darn angry...God puts us here and gives us choice...and he never said we should harm a child...or protect the person who puts harm on the child...he said..."God help those who harm one hair on the head of this child" and I'm angry and ashamed, that we have a responsiblity to obiding by the law...and giving children opportunity...yet we ignore the fact that some are violated and taken advantage of.  

So yeah, I'm angry, cuz not one child should have to suffer as such.

Thank you for the opportunity to offer thoughts and feelings on this subject.

I'll shut up now.


 
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