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Passions in Poetry

Let this be hard . . .

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Grinch
Member Elite
since 12-31-2005
Posts 2710
Whoville


25 posted 01-22-2006 02:46 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch

Ringo

There’s no contradiction in my last post, perhaps a little misunderstanding due to my inability to explain succinctly - but no contradiction. I should have made my initial claim clearer – this is not a case of Total War because both sides are not fighting it in that way, let me clarify the point I thought I’d made.

The war is not being fought by the coalition using Total War tactics moreover if such tactics were ever adopted it would result in the loss of support from almost every quarter – including my own. To wage Total War would require a disregard for civilian casualties or even worse the active targeting of civilians and the non-geographical nature of terrorism precludes this, unless you adhere to the ‘nuke’em all and let god sort them out’ faction. The war is however being fought by the terrorists using extreme Total War tactics, they actively target non-military personnel and have no regard for civilian casualties – that was the asymmetry bit.

Go through Chickering’s points again but this time don’t mix the actions of terrorists and coalition forces, judge each independently and I think you’ll find that one side is waging total War (the terrorists) and the other (the coalition) isn’t.

“While you are sell spoken, and have made what could be considered valid points,. you seem to have made them for both sides of the issue.”

I’m presuming you meant ‘soft spoken’, if so I thank you, I believe opinions don’t become more worthy the louder they’re given and besides I prefer conversations to shouting matches.

The reason I’ve tried to make points or observations from both sides is because there ARE two sides, ignoring either doesn’t make me any wiser or in this case any safer. Also my belief that the coalition forces are generally doing the right thing shouldn’t preclude me from trying to understand the situation from the other perspective or deny me the right to criticise individual actions that I believe are badly handled.

Huan Yi,

In that case the outcome would be anyone’s guess, the possibilities are endless. I believe the most likely outcome wouldn’t have been a war though – declaring a war against a country was a normal occurrence in 1941 but tying the perpetrators to any one particular country and then proving that country supported the terrorists actions would be almost impossible at that time. I don’t think that declaring a war against an entity such as a terrorist group would even have even been considered possible either, I guess America would have closed it’s borders and turned to an isolationist position similar to post-war Russia but like I said the possibilities are endless.

Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


26 posted 01-22-2006 06:10 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

quote:
The American governmenbt has ,in effect, mobilized the entire nation in its war on terror. Americans were, theoretically, being taught how to recognize if something was wrong in their community, and if there were people acting in a manner that would make them suspects, and have been asked to report any such people. The Iraqi citizens are giving coalition forces information on suspected terrorists, and weapons caches... geez, it sounds like mobilization of whole populations.


You're kidding, right?

We are not in a total war economy if we use WWII as the yard stick.

1. Where is the institution of the draft?

2. Where is the institution of a control economy?

3. Where is the institution of rationing?

4. Where is the insitution of martial law?

5. Where is the declaration of war?

We can joke around and say that Enron is like it, the Patriot Act is like it, the gas prices are like it and so on and so forth.

In which case, you have to bend over backwards to explain why the President can get away with all this without having to declare anything.

Noah,
Thanks for the numbers.

Osama has offered another ultimatum and threatened another attack on US soil. According to Antiwar.com, this follows a pattern.

He doesn't make false threats.

Are we in a position to prevent it?

Let's hope so.

Huan Yi
Member Ascendant
since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


27 posted 01-22-2006 08:29 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi


"Where is the declaration of war?"

Question: has any nation formally
declared war on another since the Soviet
Union set off an atomic bomb?  

Juju
Member Elite
since 12-29-2003
Posts 3353
In your dreams


28 posted 01-23-2006 12:39 AM       View Profile for Juju   Email Juju   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Juju's Home Page   View IP for Juju

It is unfortunet that poeple died, but on one hand I question there complete inocence for obvious reasons... Some times I wish that poeple wouldn't be so evil.  so many poeple get hurt.  well good nught I need sleep.  personally I brought up a point on the other thread that got me thinking.   It is a very scary thought.  one that I have been thinking about for a while.  it really makes me afraid if I am making the right choice or not.  just a thought g/n

-Juju

Juju - 1.) a magic charm or fetish 2.)Magic 3.)A taboo connected woth the use of magic

The dictionary never lies.... I am magical (;

Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


29 posted 01-23-2006 05:44 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

quote:
"Where is the declaration of war?"

Question: has any nation formally
declared war on another since the Soviet
Union set off an atomic bomb?


Irrelevant.

How much of the constitution do you want to consider irrelevant since the Ruskies set off a bomb?  
hush
Senior Member
since 05-27-2001
Posts 1693
Ohio, USA


30 posted 01-30-2006 02:15 AM       View Profile for hush   Email hush   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for hush

So, it comes down to comforting our children by saying "It's okay, don't be scared, the bad guys are dead," huh? Not only do I find that distasteful, but it's ridiculously unrealistic. That works in movies, or video game, or books... at the end, the credits roll or you close the back cover. Real life keeps moving on, and there's a whole bunch of people who probably told their kids that the day the towers fell... it's okay, some of those bad Americans are dead. And just as we retaliated, they will retaliate. People (even "bad" people, assuming I momentarily accept that term) getting killed should not be a comforting thought... not just because I'm on some moral idealistic high horse... but because corpses beget corpses.

But, you know, maybe if we just teach our kids to kill the bad guys, it'll turn out okay.
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