How to Join Member's Area Private Library Search Today's Topics p Login
Main Forums Discussion Tech Talk Mature Content Archives
   Nav Win
 Discussion
 The Alley
 The New Orleans Disaster Tour   [ Page: 1  2  ]
 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
Follow us on Facebook

 Moderated by: Ron   (Admins )

 
User Options
Format for Better Printing EMail to a Friend Not Available
Admin Print Send ECard
Passions in Poetry

The New Orleans Disaster Tour

 Post A Reply Post New Topic   Go to the Next Oldest/Previous Topic Return to Topic Page Go to the Next Newest Topic 
serenity blaze
Member Empyrean
since 02-02-2000
Posts 28839


0 posted 01-05-2006 10:03 AM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

That's right, step right up, folks, and for $35 you can take a sightseeing trip in the comfort and security of luxurious Grayline tour bus. The trip includes the 9th Ward and Lakeview, two of the hardest hit areas, as well as some of City Park and other sites that got less national coverage.

Grayline.

Hmmm. That's why I am here. I am not sure how I feel about this.

On the one hand, I agree that it is probably safer for tourists (as well as curious locals) who are apt to do this anyway. I have heard too, that the atmosphere of the tour is not typically celebratory, as it tends to be rather somber, and many people do get downright emotional. But I also hear that local citizens, struggling to live in the few FEMA trailers have said that they feel like "animals at a zoo."

I'm nodding at that one, 'cause well? If a tour bus showed up in front of my house on a bad day? I couldn't guarantee their safety, yanno?

But the tour company says they are doing a service for the city - that the rest of the country needs to understand just how bad it is here. (I nod here again--it's bad. Not just tv bad, but very very bad.) I also like that they end the tour with copies of letters that the tourists can sign and send to their congressman if they should so choose.

But...then there is the argument that this is callous capitalism.

(That's where I find the name Grayline a bit ironic.)

And yep, I know where the sites are online that specifically argue New Orleans and disaster related issues, but what I want here is the opinion of people with emotional distance from the situation.

So tell me what you think? And don't worry about hurting my feelings. I'll just be sitting here, drinking my coffee and cleaning my guns.

(I am just kiddding, yanno. )

Susan Caldwell
Member Rara Avis
since 12-27-2002
Posts 8464
Florida


1 posted 01-05-2006 10:18 AM       View Profile for Susan Caldwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Susan Caldwell

First response:  I wanted to vomit.

After time for what I consider logic to set in:

Does let people see how bad it really is and the letters at the end are a great idea.  

Now if they just donated the money (minus overhead) then I would be totally on board.

However, I think the people should have the say.  

I hate that there exist a need to ask this question.  





"too bad ignorance isn't painful"
~Unknown~
serenity blaze
Member Empyrean
since 02-02-2000
Posts 28839


2 posted 01-05-2006 10:21 AM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

sighing here with ya Suze...

three of the $35 fee goes toward non profit Katrina related issues.

Grayline has said in its defense that they were a tour business before the storm, and that they have to make some profit to remain a business afterwards. They point out that a few of the drivers must commute to their jobs, and have the distinction of having their own homes being part of the tour.

So...I'm still in the gray area.

I'm inching toward the shrug of a "why not" but as I said, if I was part of the tour, I think it would annoy the hell out of me.
Susan Caldwell
Member Rara Avis
since 12-27-2002
Posts 8464
Florida


3 posted 01-05-2006 10:34 AM       View Profile for Susan Caldwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Susan Caldwell

They point out that a few of the drivers must commute to their jobs, and have the distinction of having their own homes being part of the tour.

and what point are they trying to make with that statement??

$3???  Letter at the end or not, they are making a profit at the expense of exposing people as if they were..well, animals in a zoo.  

This will not end well.

Now that just makes me fume.  

"too bad ignorance isn't painful"
~Unknown~

serenity blaze
Member Empyrean
since 02-02-2000
Posts 28839


4 posted 01-05-2006 10:58 AM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

I really am just torn about the issue though.

I was thinking about something I've said about a dozen times elsewhere, and that is, "If you see on tv, it isn't quite real to you."

and just above I stated:

"it's bad. Not just tv bad, but very very bad"

You have to see it to believe it--I think that is why heads of state and even leaders of foreign countries travel to view such firsthand.

And then there is the point that it was happening anyway--I, myself, went to see what was left of some parts of the city. (I tried, but I am not as strong as some of you think and I couldn't go very far into the hardest hit areas.)

So I dunno.

I'm just sitting here, like you, in disbelief that I am even having this discussion. *shaking my head wryly here*

Let's face it though. There are people driving through with cameras etc, anyhow.

I sure hope somebody draws a line though.

I would hate to see mini replicas of the Superdome in ruins sold as memorabilia.



Mysteria
Deputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Laureate
since 03-07-2001
Posts 19652
British Columbia, Canada


5 posted 01-05-2006 01:20 PM       View Profile for Mysteria   Email Mysteria   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Mysteria



I can see where people that are still "raw" would take such offense to this Karen.  I can also see a few other things too.

The company has to make money to pay its employees in this capitalist country we all share.  Hence this tour.

I do think they did think this out, and the fact they are even donating anything is a good idea, and hopefully the feelings of their passengers will add to that pile at the end of the tour, I would contribute.

It is better for the lookieloos to have a guided tour rather than be let loose too I think, so that is a bonus for everyone.  

Unfortunately we live in a world of free enterprise and if there is an opportunity to make money we find it.  

I agree that if they started setting up stands with distasteful statues, or souvenirs for sale I would sure as hell put my foot down.  As sick as this tour sounds I think it is good for your tourist business, the company, the tourists, and eventually New Orleans as this is getting people back there, and doing it safely.  

This is of course taking the human element of feeling out of my logic.  I want to picket them for your sake of course!
Mistletoe Angel
Deputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 5 Tours
Member Empyrean
since 12-17-2000
Posts 34089
City of Roses


6 posted 01-05-2006 06:20 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

This just in: The Katrina & The Waves Reunion Tour is SOLD OUT!  

But seriously, I just believe this type of tourism just doesn't make justice of what has shaped New Orleans culture for over 150 years. New Orleans in my view has by far suffered much more tragedy than any other U.S city to this day; from coping with yellow fever to the Civil War to the frequent reminders of this history with the city largely built on top of grave sites, to obviously Katrina.

But just as importantly is also how the city has embraced and breathed hope through all of this; despite suffering way too much, they pulled together and the city continues to thrive in a holistic, harmonious sense.

I don't believe this sort of tourism strategy lives up to the spirit of New Orleans. If the profits do go towards reconstruction and aid of victims and their families, that's great, but I'm uneasy about this whole thing.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton



"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

Mother Teresa
Midnitesun
Deputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Empyrean
since 05-18-2001
Posts 29020
Gaia


7 posted 01-05-2006 06:39 PM       View Profile for Midnitesun   Email Midnitesun   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Midnitesun

I wouldn't make a good lab rat either.
Chargem' a dollar a stare?
Offer them hurricane gumbo? Cajun mud pies?
Sunshine
Administrator
Member Caelestus
since 06-25-99
Posts 67715
Listening to every heart


8 posted 01-05-2006 07:54 PM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine

I remember a personal story about being the family that got the box at Christmas...

hold on, I'm getting somewhere...

because we were poor.

We didn't know it then, but knew it hard, afterwards.

You KNOW you've been through a storm.  And wryly or not, the Grayline bus company is making an attempt to hold their necks above the proverbial water that's passed to be there in the future.  

I cannot say I like the idea that they didn't canvass the neighborhoods first, though, to find out their community's response to such an idea.

Kacy, I thought, had a good idea.  Capitalize on their capitalization...and sell something.  Crying crawfish fritters comes to mind, too.

The whole world becomes a zoo during disasters, I think.  Stick a sign in your yard, "Help needed to remove debris, B&B overnight $50.00 per person. Chat with the people who had to leave home to come back to this.  Bus will return tomorrow for your trip back to what you never expected to happen in your lifetime."

Ok, so I'm not being my sensitive self.  This just sucks...and I think the people at the bus company could have come up with a better way to help the community.



littlewing
Member Rara Avis
since 03-02-2003
Posts 9998
New York


9 posted 01-05-2006 07:57 PM       View Profile for littlewing   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for littlewing

I think that is way messed up.

The only good thing I even see from that is the people becoming aware of what is really going on and the petitions being signed,
as if that will accomplish anything.

But no, I would be "annoyed" at that very much, Karen.

The best you can hope for is maybe someone actually doing something after seeing all of that.  

*sigh*
Midnitesun
Deputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Empyrean
since 05-18-2001
Posts 29020
Gaia


10 posted 01-05-2006 10:28 PM       View Profile for Midnitesun   Email Midnitesun   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Midnitesun

I'd be interested in getting on that tour, asking some of the people why they took the tour? They may be family and friends, they may be survivors? Just guessing. I can think of many reasons why someone might be on that bus, and some are not so sinister.
I'm not sure if it helps or hurts your recovery, but it sure seems to wash away some pride and ego, adding insult to injury.
Maybe put up a giant mirror, with a red lipstick note
hey....you're in my face!
Aenimal
Member Rara Avis
since 11-18-2002
Posts 7451
the ass-end of space


11 posted 01-06-2006 12:41 AM       View Profile for Aenimal   Email Aenimal   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Aenimal

saw this for the first time on the news yesterday. i think we should gather in prayer:


oh big diety type person,

with the wrath,
and the vengeance
and the hey hey
here ye our prayeth.
earth is a floater
flush already

booyah
iliana
Member Patricius
since 12-05-2003
Posts 13488
USA


12 posted 01-06-2006 03:08 AM       View Profile for iliana   Email iliana   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for iliana

If I were one of the victims, my PTSD would probably get even worse if I were on display as part of the guided tour.  I cannot even fathom it.

I understand the economics behind it and Sharon has a point.  But, I suppose I can only view it through the stance of the suffering.  

No doubt, this is one of many examples yet to come of how truly painful economic recovery will be.  God, I wish it were not so.   *hugs* jojo
Cloud 9
Senior Member
since 11-05-2004
Posts 988
Ca


13 posted 01-06-2006 12:34 PM       View Profile for Cloud 9   Email Cloud 9   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Cloud 9

"So tell me what you think? And don't worry about hurting my feelings. I'll just be sitting here, drinking my coffee and cleaning my guns."

Karen...too funny. However, its understandable.


I think I vomited next after Susan.

HOWEVER, reading through all of these responses teeters you back and forth. Is this a good thing or a bad thing? World Trade Center was the same way. My son's dad and his family went to New York for a wedding and to see the WTC wreckage. Just when it was safe, they made this bridge thing that people/tourists could walk across and take pics, view..whatever. At least this is what I heard. But when my son's grandmother was there "siteseeing" (not for any good reason but her own selfishness-sorry I just don't like her)ANYHOW, there were some people there, she said, from a large companies and as individuals who were donating to some families that lost loved ones. Either that was there first or last stop before flying home. So, yes, you could have people there from large companies ready to donate or you could have my son's grandmother on that bus.

But this is America.....everyone flocks to see the devistation and/or whats left of it. We see this and hear this but don't feel it until it happens to you.

The sign is a good idea. I am keeping positive and hoping that this pulls people together and donate/help ONCE THEY GET OFF THE BUS.

serenity blaze
Member Empyrean
since 02-02-2000
Posts 28839


14 posted 01-06-2006 01:43 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

I'm still rather torn.

On the one hand, because I am rooting for every single business struggling to operate, I think I understand Grayline, and I can accept that perhaps they may well be a necessary nuisance. (And as pointed out, they ARE a business, with overhead and payroll, just like everybody else.)

It might work my nerves, but as of yet, I think the people who live there have handled it gracefully. And if it starts to work their nerves --

They'll let somebody know. Somehow.

I remember the Twin Towers too, so I understand. As I mentioned, I did a little sight seeing around here m'self.

(Trucks in trees IS an amazing sight.)

So I guess I'm saying "live and let live"--
LIVE being the operative word.

and even if I did live where the tours are taking place, I think I'd prefer one tour bus to forty cars...

so, sigh.

I can't wait until the tours can get back to showing off the New Orleans I knew and still love though.

Our houses, our architecture, is very pretty and I am going to be very proud when that is, again, the point of interest for our visitors.

Thank you all for your input, and most especially for your sensitivity.

(serenity takes the clip outta the gun)



serenity blaze
Member Empyrean
since 02-02-2000
Posts 28839


15 posted 01-07-2006 03:39 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

An update for those who gave a damn:

The New Orleans City Council, yesterday afternoon, voted to ban tours for profit from the hardest hit areas of New Orleans.

And nod, I take that as a good sign that we really will be a better, more caring city than we were before.

And Noah? Your "sold out" joke made me smile, so thank you.

It's nice to know that New Orleans is no longer willing to "sell out" their people.
Grinch
Member Elite
since 12-31-2005
Posts 2710
Whoville


16 posted 01-07-2006 04:22 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch

I think that Grayline should have thought about it a little more and offered the people the chance to buy a seat and NOT use it, that way Grayline would survive as a business, $3 would go to help the clean up and hopefully EMPTY buses instead of prying eyes would have been the only thing the locals saw.

I imagine that seeing an empty bus would remove your indecision and renew your faith in the goodness of your fellow countrymen. I think locals would even welcome them maybe even with a bit of pride and a feeling of patriotism.

Of course it also allows you to load for bear without remorse for the degenerate gawkers that decided to occupy their seats.  

iliana
Member Patricius
since 12-05-2003
Posts 13488
USA


17 posted 01-08-2006 12:14 AM       View Profile for iliana   Email iliana   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for iliana

I'm glad to hear this, Karen.   jojo
Local Rebel
Member Ascendant
since 12-21-1999
Posts 5742
Southern Abstentia


18 posted 01-08-2006 12:17 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

City council or not Blazey -- I think you still have a philisophical issue here.  

A funeral home profits from preparing a dead body for viewing at a funeral.

The contractor(s) building the 9/11 memorial in NYC will profit from the project.

What is the difference between gawking from a bus window or gawkng 2000 miles away through the lens of a camera to the pixels of your computer or television set?  The television networks and stations are making a profit.

What is it in particular about a bus tour that seems different enough to evoke such a response?  Mind you, that's not a rhetorical question -- people have had this reaction to a bus tour -- yet not to other aspects of our culture (or at least not expressed) that seemingly 'exploit' the suffering of others.

serenity blaze
Member Empyrean
since 02-02-2000
Posts 28839


19 posted 01-08-2006 01:53 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

What funeral homes/mortuaries do is provide a service for the living. It is (for some) a positive ritual that provides closure and commences healing.

I think I can say the same for all memorials.

Those people camping out on their front lawns are alive, Reb. And to them, it felt like a violation and they voiced that concern to their representatives.

They felt violated.

and feelings ain't debatable.

Local Rebel
Member Ascendant
since 12-21-1999
Posts 5742
Southern Abstentia


20 posted 01-08-2006 08:11 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

So, then your final analysis would be something like, having MSNBC put your image over the air would be like being interviewed by Barbara Walters -- but, having a bus full of lookie loos pull up on your lawn is like being on the cover of the National Enquirer?

I'm not arguing about anything K... just trying to figure out the dynamics of the issue -- what's the line between making lemonade out of lemons and turning people's lives into a freak show?
serenity blaze
Member Empyrean
since 02-02-2000
Posts 28839


21 posted 01-08-2006 08:17 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

how they feel about it
serenity blaze
Member Empyrean
since 02-02-2000
Posts 28839


22 posted 01-08-2006 08:33 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

jeeeeeeeeeeeeeezus...

I am typing here, gritting my teeth while trying to swallow hard, (try that some time) thinking, "no they just don't know" and understanding that it might help for you to hear others say, "you won't know until you see it" and at the same time, not wanting you to...

Shrinks and sociologists...we have more studying us than helping.

I dunno Reb. But I know what it takes to survive just three days without amenities...and six months? I'd be more than armed for bear.

If people really want to understand, they should go home, destroy everything they own, and try to live there anyway.

But?

I apologize.

I asked for a distance from emotion and you gave me that and then what did I do?

mea culpa

serenity blaze
Member Empyrean
since 02-02-2000
Posts 28839


23 posted 01-08-2006 08:46 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

But thanks.

I think I just realized something.

I would really like the world to see how bad it is, if it would be to our advantage.

But I am half afraid that if the world sees what a mess this really is, they will simply cross themselves and call a priest.

It's bad.
Local Rebel
Member Ascendant
since 12-21-1999
Posts 5742
Southern Abstentia


24 posted 01-08-2006 08:48 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

I don't think I'm that distant from it really -- I don't want MSNBC on my front lawn either.

I was trying to figure out why you'd be 'torn' about it -- apparently you aren't anymore.  
 
 Post A Reply Post New Topic   Go to the Next Oldest/Previous Topic Return to Topic Page Go to the Next Newest Topic 
All times are ET (US) Top
  User Options
>> Discussion >> The Alley >> The New Orleans Disaster Tour   [ Page: 1  2  ] Format for Better Printing EMail to a Friend Not Available
Print Send ECard

 

pipTalk Home Page | Main Poetry Forums

How to Join | Member's Area / Help | Private Library | Search | Contact Us | Today's Topics | Login
Discussion | Tech Talk | Archives | Sanctuary



© Passions in Poetry and netpoets.com 1998-2013
All Poetry and Prose is copyrighted by the individual authors