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LeeJ
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0 posted 12-05-2005 07:34 AM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

Over the years, I'm becoming more and more aware of a very powerful movement in the U.S.  I don't know what this movement calls itself, (Bowel, if you ask me)...hehe

but they are slowly taking the Christmas out of Christmas.  Every year, the traditional Christmas Carols are being taken away, and, I'm told I must say Holiday.  I'm livid about this...yanno, America means Freedom of speach and beliefs...and we always welcome any religion/race who wishes to practice they're beliefs...but in the same, don't take mine away from me, and/or repromand me or correct me b/c I've said Christmas instead of Holiday!!!

Just recently I was listening to a radio broadcast about this very subject and a woman phoned in and said the following...."if in fact, the American people would all stick together and simply purchase no thing for Christmas presents, you'd soon see this movement abolished!  

The radio announcer totally agreed, adding, we Americans sit idolly by and allow these people to gain power and control...we rely on everyone else but ourselves to vocalize and make decissions for us.  I agree...

We can blame the governement, and all these movements who have become not only powerful, but financially funded by some very influencial people.  

A perfect example of what happened under Hitler's reign...oft I've wondering why those hundreds of thousands of people allowed themselves to be destroyed?  When they could have fought back.

We're not fighting back, all it seems we do is complain...about what's happening, but do not take a stand?  

I'd like to see every church in the country discuss this situation, and next year, do just that, spend Christmas with family and stop purchasing Christmas Gifts for the simple fact of displaying a crucial statement...stop taking our rights away.  

I for one am very tired of this...I don't care what your race/religion or belief is, but don't take mine away...you want to say Holiday, do so...you don't want to listen to the old fashioned Christmas Carols, turn it off...but don't take them away from me.  Gosh, this is getting so darn unfair and rediculous, not to mention, that we're all allowing this to happen?

Christmas is "our" tradition...you talk and think as you wish...but don't take my tradition away...

Anyway, Christmas has become way to commercialized, and it's high time people celebrate Christmas for what it was meant to be...the birth of Jesus.  Not a spending spree....  

Any comments?

serenity blaze
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1 posted 12-05-2005 10:29 AM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Lee? I'm confused.

Who are "these people"?

I'm afraid that using that term, followed up by an analogy of Hitler's reign, and people "allowing themselves" to be destroyed might be misconstrued as an anti-semitic statement.

Which I'm sure wasn't your intent...um, right?
LeeJ
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2 posted 12-05-2005 10:44 AM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

Correct...what I'm trying to relate to is the fact that if we don't fight back, we're going to continue loosing our rights....and refrenced the Holicast as an example of what happens when people don't fight back.  

I've always pondered the fact that those poor people allowed themselves to be herded to their deaths...why didn't they fight back?

I don't know who these people are in this movement pertaining to Christmas, but they were also instrumental in taking the Pledge Allegiance out of Schools.  

This is being slid in under our eyes, and we're not standing up against this.  Why doesn't anyone counter suit?  Why are we just sitting around allowing this to happen.  

Kids are not allowed to sing old fashioned Christmas Carols in school anymore?????

They are even telling radio, news and television that they can no longer say Christmas Tree, it must now be referred to as a HOliday Tree?  

What in the world is going on here, and why aren't we sticking together and fighting for "OUR" rights?

I'm trying to ignite a spark under the butts of all of us...trying to get people to talk about it, in hopes that they start realizing the seriousness of this....

Many radio stations are only allowed to play Frosty the Snowman type music instead of Oh, Holy Night, Joy to the World, Silent at Night, etc???????

This is all coming about b/c of the Christ in Christmas, Jesus, God, Dear Savior's Birth, etc in Christmas carols.
serenity blaze
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3 posted 12-05-2005 11:04 AM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Thank you Lee.

I know you are a lovely, intelligent woman with a gracious and understanding heart, and I worried that you might be misunderstood by someone who didn't know that.

I confess it's hard for me to get worked about this though, knowing the history of Christmas, it was once celebrated as a pagan holiday, and many would maintain that it still is.

My brother, a Christian, was a strict interpreter of scripture, and he refused to acknowledge the day at all, as he believed there was no historical nor scriptural proof that Jesus was born on December 25. That one got him kicked out of his church, and he was relieved of his title as an Elder in that same church. He was a stickler for details, he was.

Myself? It doesn't bother me. I used that, and just about every other holiday to educate my children regarding other beliefs as well as Christian practices.

Although my son is now a self-proclaimed atheist, when he was five he insisted he was Jewish. So? Shrug, I got him a menorrah.

(Forgive me if I spelled that wrong.)

Next year he might be a member of Hare Krishna for all I know, but I do know we'll talk about it.

I happen to recognize Winter Solstice as a holy day, but I enjoy Christmas as well.

And I, like you, tend to be offended by the commercialism of it all--but I expect this year will be different.

Nothing like a catastrophe to learn to find joy outside of the wrapping paper.

Merry Christmas, Lee.

I'll say that to you, because I know it's your preference. And when I learn the preference of others, I wish them the happy holiday of their given belief as well.

I'm easy that way.

peace and love to you m'friend
LeeJ
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4 posted 12-05-2005 11:15 AM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

understand your feedback, but the point I'm trying to make is this...anyone can come to the US and practice they're religion...and I respect those that don't believe...those that deem Christmas as pagan...but what about the thousands of people that do believe Christ was born on that day, and the hords of old fashioned beautiful Christmas songs....????  AND worship as such?  Its what I grew up with, my heritage, my belief??????

How can they do this....?????

and yanno, you shouldn't "have" to be consciencious about how you wish me a joyous holiday...that shouldn't be first and foremost, you should very comfortably be allowed to say it how you believe it, not b/c it's my prefrence...and that is how it should be for us....

I grew up on those beautiful Carols, matter of fact, it's part of what made my Christmas...it was a tradition, to turn them on every year as we baked cookies, did cards, decorated or had dinner, open houses, etc.

What I'm trying to say, is, it's time this stops, I really believe this polically correct business has gone way beyond the scope of reality.  Sheesh????
Mistletoe Angel
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5 posted 12-05-2005 12:03 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

Absolutely, Lee.

Look, there's nothing wrong with giving to your family or loved ones over the holiday season. But I also feel the most genuine meaning of Christmas is being spoiled by the commerical influence; the unconditional virtues of giving and sharing, (which truly ought to be endorsed routinely), Peace on Earth, and the birth of Hope.

If anything, the best way to celebrate Christmas and the holiday season is simply to get involved in your community. Volunteer at your local rescue mission and help feed the less fortunate, volunteer for the Adopt-A-Family program and provide impoverished families presents and a dinner to make their Christmas day special, help pack and distribute food boxes to needy individuals and families, volunteer at the Santa Shop, meet up with two to five friends of yours, call your local Family Rescue Ministry hotline, and set up a mentor session, anything of these sorts is wonderful. Or, if your schedule may indeed be flooded out, simply give a monetary gift to a local shelter.

Remember what is said in the Holy Book:

*

"When you give a luncheon or a dinner, do not invite your friends, your brothers, your relatives or your rich neighbors;if you do, they may invite you back and so you will be repaid. But when you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind and you will be blessed. Although they can not repay you, you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous." (Luke 14:12-14)

*

This is the best way anyone can fight back here in my opinion; teach our children all that Christmas and the holiday season is all about and preach the message ourselves through our philanthropic actions.

Love,
Noah Eaton

"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

Mother Teresa

Ron
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6 posted 12-05-2005 12:27 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

I don't know where you live, Lee, but no one around here has stopped me from decorating Christmas trees or listening to the music of my choice.

Radio stations? They have the same freedoms I have and can choose to play what they want. And it IS a choice for each and every station, as there certainly aren't any laws or regulations preventing any business from celebrating their holiday of choice. More importantly, there's no law or regulation preventing them from NOT celebrating as they wish, too.

Schools? I didn't send my kids to school learn the Pledge of Allegiance or sing old fashioned Christmas carols. And I sure as hell didn't send them to school so that someone else could teach them who and how to worship. There's certainly a place for religion in America, but that place is the home, church, and synagogue. Teach your children as you wish, but please be kind enough to leave my kids the hell alone.

Freedom of religion does not include the right to push, shove, or wheedle your beliefs into the lives of others. It is a defensive shield designed to protect your rights, not a weapon to bludgeon the rights of everyone who doesn't agree with you.

You can say Merry Christmas as much as you want, Lee, string lights on every tree you own, and sing any song in your home or church that makes you happy. Shouldn't that be enough?


p.s. Merry Christmas!
jbouder
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7 posted 12-05-2005 01:18 PM       View Profile for jbouder   Email jbouder   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for jbouder

I find Evanglicalism's reaction to the secularization of Christmas perplexing.  Perhaps a few need to re-read the bumper stickers and friendship bracelets out there and ask themselves "What would Jesus do?"  Would he boycott stores?  Lobby congress?  Run public service anouncements on TV?

Perhaps the starting point in this discussion ought to be this.  What does Christmas mean?

Jim
LeeJ
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8 posted 12-05-2005 01:33 PM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

No guys, I believe you are misunderstanding where I'm coming from...so sorry if I offended anyone

I've been told at work, I am not allowed to say Christmas...I must say Holiday.

Gwad Ron, I'm not trying to force my beliefs down anyone's throat...geeze louise?????  But what is wrong with me exercising my rights?  What is the big deal with taking the Pledge of Allegiance out of school?  What is wrong with having our kids recite something that says, one nation under God?????  

Why are they now trying to make everyone say Holiday Tree?  

And your wrong, it is now I believe against the law for any school to have a Christmas Play with religious songs in it.  And there are a lot of radio stations afraid to play those songs for fear of controversy.  

I mean, believe what you wish, but in the same, allow me my beliefs to.  What I'm saying is if....people would get together and stop buying Christmas Gifts boy oh boy, would you see things change but quick.

Wouldn't that be a kicker, if Christmas sales would drop by more then half because people got sick and tired of this politically correct garbage and stick together and just not buy.  I cannot believe there is no one here sensitive to this issue.

I tell you true, things would change darn quick and if I could start a movement against our beliefs.

What would Jesus do?  Well, he actually got a little testy when they were selling things in His Father's Temple.

And no, actually I'd prefer to keep this thread as is....

and I'm certainly not one to stuff my beliefs down anyone's throat...but in the same Ron, it is this movement that are slowly dwindling the rights of others away.

And Ron, I'd never force my opinion/beliefs on your kids....why would you say that?  I believe more then not, I'd be respectful of their beliefs and yours as a parent, but in the same, why couldn't you mine?



[This message has been edited by LeeJ (12-05-2005 02:05 PM).]

nakdthoughts
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9 posted 12-05-2005 02:51 PM       View Profile for nakdthoughts   Email nakdthoughts   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for nakdthoughts

Lee...  I am substituting regularly and I have not been in any school yet that doesn't say the pledge... nor any that doesn't sing Christmas carols or celebrate any of the  other special days with subject matter being taught also in the reading or language arts...they are being taught to allow others their beliefs and to share in the knowledge of each. But if they chose not to participate in the singing or of the spoken word that is also ok. Many of the schools are multicutural...

anyway I haven't even heard any songs being banned from my radio stations..and if I so choose not to listen I would turn the channel..there are some that get on my nerves  but not because of their meanings..just the repetition and most are not the religious ones.

Yes, I have heard about the word Holiday being used..so as to be all inclusive at the shopping malls. You will still see and hear carolers there and see the decorations of all kinds.

Just thought I would let you know that..

M
jbouder
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10 posted 12-05-2005 02:57 PM       View Profile for jbouder   Email jbouder   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for jbouder

quote:
What would Jesus do?  Well, he actually got a little testy when they were selling things in His Father's Temple.


True, but Lord & Taylor is not the Lord's house.  And what Christmas is IS important to the discussion.  You are criticizing others for quashing the true meaning of Christmas ... so tell me ... what is Christmas' true meaning?

Once we know that, I suspect we will know, as Christians, the best way to preserve that meaning from secularist attacks.

Jim
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11 posted 12-05-2005 03:17 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

Look, I agree there are some consciences that are attempting to influence a de-secularization of Christmas. I don't deny there are some who are making such efforts and indeed I passionately disagree with their intens.

I do also believe though that the concern is just blown out of proportion quite a bit and is being exaggerated, as some of the earlier comments suggest that nothing has stopped others from singing Christmas carols or hang up decorations anywhere. Here in what is often referred to as the "Godless Northwest" in that the Northwest is the area of the country where people least go to church, most houses have their lights up and no one ever threatens us to take them down. And no one has certainly threatened me to remove my Christmas images from my blog.

It is my personal opinion that there is no particular "group" trying to change the meaning of Christmas; it's simply an attitude, a behavior that some who just can't appreciate the holiday have. I believe we do have to be aware about the possibilities without a doubt, but a unanimous majority of the population absolutely believes in Christmas to the fullest, and it should be understood that in terms of vox populi, this attitude will never prevail and strip us of this day's true meaning.

Again, I believe the best, most symbolic way to fight back against anyone who may have this attitude is simply to get involved and celebrate what you believe in, get involved with Christmas to the fullest.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton


"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

Mother Teresa
Mysteria
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12 posted 12-05-2005 03:47 PM       View Profile for Mysteria   Email Mysteria   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Mysteria

Lee said, "America means Freedom of speach and beliefs"

It does!   You can exercise that right, and most do if they choose to.  No one could ever make me do one thing I don't wish to do ever!  To be honest - I celebrate every single festivity I can, and enjoy the company of the people who are celebrating it to the maximum!  That is what I love about this planet - the diversity available to us to enjoy (or not) depending on your preference.

Merry Christmas, Happy Winter Solstice, Happy Hanukkah, Happy Kwanzaa, and Happy anything else I forgot     

It is our choice to partake or not, so don't listen to the current propaganda (it comes up every single year,) and still Christmas goes on.  

I do however agree with Ron, Lord help anyone who trys to "push" their beliefs on me.  Religion/non-religion should always begin at home where it is supported by the love of family not fiends.  Regardless of anything, I always love the fact that it is the season to be jolly.
Ron
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13 posted 12-05-2005 05:53 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
I've been told at work, I am not allowed to say Christmas...I must say Holiday.

That's where your employer's rights have to supersede your own, Lee. While you're on the job, you have to do things his way. When you leave the job, either to go home at the end of your shift or because you got fed up and quit, you can go right back to doing it your own way.

quote:
What is wrong with having our kids recite something that says, one nation under God?????

Why not "one nation under many Gods" then? Or "one nation under Serenity's Goddess" instead? Can't you see how the language you find perfectly acceptable is, in truth, a reflection of your own beliefs? Language is a powerful tool, Lee. By demanding language that supports your personal beliefs, to the exclusion of others, you are subtly (if no doubt unintentionally) trying to control how everyone thinks.

And the same argument applies to religious songs, plays and other ceremonies in the school system. It is NOT the role of the school to teach religion, and certainly not just ONE religion to the exclusion of all others.

I think it is perfectly fine to protest the secularization of Christmas within the commercial sector. If you don't like a radio station's choice, tune to another one. If you don't like it when Wal-Mart says Happy Holidays, stop going to Wal-Mart. Your goal, however, should only be to avoid what you don't like, NOT to change the way others act or believe. If your protest is motivated only by a desire to change others, it is nothing but coercion and you are doing exactly what you claim you aren't doing.

quote:
But if they chose not to participate in the singing or of the spoken word that is also ok.

The problem I have with that, Maureen, is that a seven-year-old should never be put in a position where their only choices are to conform or risk being ostracized by their peers. Children can be incredibly mean to those who are different, and yet it is those very differences we are trying to protect. I think we put too much pressure on kids when we ask them to make adult decisions.


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14 posted 12-05-2005 06:45 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

"one nation under Serenity's Goddess" gets my vote!
nakdthoughts
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15 posted 12-05-2005 08:13 PM       View Profile for nakdthoughts   Email nakdthoughts   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for nakdthoughts

"The problem I have with that, Maureen, is that a seven-year-old should never be put in a position where their only choices are to conform or risk being ostracized by their peers. Children can be incredibly mean to those who are different, and yet it is those very differences we are trying to protect. I think we put too much pressure on kids when we ask them to make adult decisions"

Those in bold are your words, Ron, not mine ...
the decisions aren't pressured, in fact I am sure they don't even think of them as decisions.

They do if they want to or don't if they don't wish to.

The children in our area are from all over the world....The district I am working in teaches tolerance on a daily basis in their reading lessons, in the guidance sessions, in social studies...in their art and music
(a far cry from how it was when I taught 30 years ago or when we were brought up)

They aren't teased or ostracized by anyone...in fact at the young ages they are  more acceptable of their differences and are taught to embrace them...

I am very impressed by the two schools that I work in the most, and the volunteerism of the parents. It is a county wide program and I am amazed at times, of how well they get along and help one another. I am sure it is not an exception and that there are many other school systems like this.

Balladeer
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16 posted 12-05-2005 09:12 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

This thread can really make one think in many different ways. I, too, lament, the assassination of Christmas. I also see some of Ron's and others points that consideration must also be shown to other groups and their ways of thinking. I would like to ramble on a few points, even to the point where I am interested in seeing where my thought will take me!

I think that part of it is that many of us miss "the old days". When I was growing up there were Christmas trees all over town. Carolers went from door to door singing Christmas songs and hymns. It's A Wonderful Life, A Christmas Carol and Miracle on 34th Street were shown over and over on tv. Everywhere was Christmas and everyone was greeted with Merry Christmas! Of course, to be fair, at that same time no one had problems with "under God" being said in the Pledge of Allegiance, either. There was no censorship of Christmas at all. I confess I miss those times and I confess that i gave no thoughts to anyone's rights being trampled by such Christmas celebrations. i suppose there must have bee some of that. What happened when carolers sang in front of a Jewish person's home, for example? I'm sure it happened. Did the Jews get outraged? Scream "Go away!!" or complain to the ACLU? I certainly never heard of it happening. Or is it possible they smiled and accepted it in the spirit in which it was given? I don't know. Perhaps it created hard feelings in some who were either non-Christian or non-religious or perhaps people were more tolerant then and didn't let it bother them and didn't have lawyers standing by to represent them in lawsuits. I still miss those days.

" I didn't send my kids to school learn the Pledge of Allegiance or sing old fashioned Christmas carols." - Ron.

I would be interested in knowing why you DID send your kids to school.....or anyone, for that matter. I've heard it said many times that morality and behavior are the responsibility of the parents. I don't disagree with that. I've also heard that the purpose of the schools is to teach what the students need to succeed in life. Ok by me but for me it is so much more than that. The school is the first place a child goes to to participate in society. Their circles of interaction up to that point have been with parents, relatives or perhaps neighbors.....but, in school they are finally in a situation where they interact with other small beings their own age. That is their first introduction to society as we know it. They learn, or discover, how to act around others, how to treat others, how others think about things. They begin to learn about life outside of their small sphere of existence. They learn that they want to be liked and they learn how to accomplish that. They finally begin to learn about the world. Is this the purpose of the schools? No...it is the essential by-product of our school system. Do mothers cry when little Billy finally goes off to school because they are afraid he won't pass the tests? No, it's because he will be in a room with the other kids his age, and without her to guide or protect him, right?  I think that's why parents send kids to school - to learn about life. You don't send them there to learn the pledge of Allegiance, Ron? I claim that you do.....that and everything else that makes up our world. So what do they learn as time goes on? They learn that the United States was founded on the belief of God, that our money says "In God We Trust" and that they will no longer be allowed to say "under God" when reciting it. They watch Christmas being celebrated in their homes, in movies, on television....and that they are not allowed to say "Merry Christmas" to a friend in school and no references to Christmas be allowed to be sung during the holidays. You didn't send them to school to sing old fashioned Christmas carols, Ron? No, you didn't but you did for them to try to understand why they are not allowed to. That's part of our world. Reasons given to them is consideration of others. Since not all share in those beliefs or feelings, no one is allowed to express them. They don't understand why those who do can't express their feelings and those who don't can simply ignore them or choose not to participate. It had been that way for generations with no discernable effects so what has changed? No need to stop with Christmas then. Valentine's Day is fashioned after Saint Valentin. Prohibit the exchange  of valentine cards. Certainly do not allow any Easter decorations for obvious reason. Halloween? Unfair to the witches....no school decorations there then. Does the thought of a grade school with no decorations for these holidays appeal to you? We are headed there.

I can understand the consideration of others philosophy but how far should it go? At the 2000 US concensus 76% of the population were Christian, 1.3% were Jewish and all others made up the rest. Should 3/4 of the population be throttled in their public expressions not to offend the other 1/4? One can argue that if something offends ANYONE it should not be allowed but the majority must count for something, shouldn't it?...and someone is always going to be offended over anything at all. The US Post Office has just announced that it will produce no religious Christmas stamps this year so as not to offend anyone. How ridiculous is that?  No one is FORCING beliefs on anyone. Christians are simply expressing their beliefs, which happen to be the same beliefs that founded this country. Why can't non-believers just accept it for what it is? I've heard of no Christians protesting the display of the Menorah or any Kwanzaa celebrations. One can say "Why should we have to accept it or be confronted with it?" Yet these people will impose their restrictions on Christians. As Ron says, "You can say Merry Christmas as much as you want, Lee, string lights on every tree you own, and sing any song in your home or church that makes you happy. Shouldn't that be enough?"  No, sir, that shouldn't be enough. I want to lick a Christmas stamp!

As I said when beginning this response, I guess I'm just an old fuddy-duddy wishing for the old days when people did not get offended so easily, when there was not a lawyer behind every tree, ready to advise them how offended they should feel, when children were not psychologically damaged at hearing the others say 'Under god" while reciting the Pledge, when people were tolerant of the beliefs of others and not threatened by them  and when I could hear my son's school choir sing a fairly off-key presentation of Bing's White Christmas.

So shoot me...
End of ramble
Alicat
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17 posted 12-05-2005 10:37 PM       View Profile for Alicat   Email Alicat   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alicat

Just bring back Oliver Cromwell and be done with it.  Which reminds me...when they cut off his head, did they stick an apple in his mouth?  Sure he made things very exciting for a while, but he was a dreadful boar.
Mysteria
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18 posted 12-05-2005 10:40 PM       View Profile for Mysteria   Email Mysteria   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Mysteria

Well Michael some things never change as I have two school Christmas concerts to attend this week.   I am sure we will be hearing Bing's White Christmas being sung off-key by children, who have absolutely no idea what all this latest hubbub is about, until an adult enlightens them.  Boy we grow-ups are sure party poopers   aren't we?

For what it is worth though, I sure miss the good old days myself, when just plain old good will was done to our fellowman at this time of year no matter what their status or faith.
serenity blaze
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19 posted 12-05-2005 10:52 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

The following is an excerpt from personal correspondence to a Pipfriend, and I quote it with my apologies, but it sums up my mood so precisely, I decided to bore you all:

" just got back from the store from buying cigs, and I am so enamored of the Dutch now, I wore a Santa hat with white braids dangling from it, with a white lace bra peeking out of a red tank top, with the word, "HO?" painted on it, all perfectly accessorized by a black leather tackled belt, black jeans, and boots with the Santa buckle.

Yeah, I got their attention.

I told the guy, "Admit it--you are a little happier just looking at me!"

He agreed. (and trust me, I ain't braggin' that I looked GOOD--I just sorta stood out)

He raised an eyebrow while reading my shirt though.

So I glared at him and said, "Don we now our gay apparel?"

He raised the other eyebrow while I paid him.

"Fa-la-la"

He put the money in the drawer

"la-la-la"

He counted my change

"la-la-la-la!"

*glare*

grin...

It's all in the attitude methinks.  
Balladeer
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20 posted 12-05-2005 11:20 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

LOLOL! Ah, the visuals....

Sure makes me want to feel merry and jump for Joy
latearrival
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21 posted 12-06-2005 03:27 AM       View Profile for latearrival   Email latearrival   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for latearrival

As I sit here reading this thread I am looking at a huge, beautifully decorated  Christmas tree. There are also wreaths on the walls, and a Santa figure on the front counter. LOL ~~ I wondered if the new director would stop this practice. I have been here almost sixteen years and we have always had a tree. A lot of little PC changes have been made or suggested over the years, Bibles were not allowed in the dorms but we have them if any one requests one.  I too have been hearing the protest about changing from “Merry Christmas” to “Happy Holidays”. I think it ironic that we have such a gung ho President who has been backed by the T.V. evangelist and other religious groups and who advocates so many “Faith Based projects”, that we have the other side fighting for all their worth to eliminate the holiday not only in the schools but in any government place, yet here I sit looking at this Hugh tree. I have no preference. But I see the irony in it all. I understand Jesus was not born on December 25th, but it is now tradition so it does not bother me.  Happy what ever to all. martyjo
latearrival
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22 posted 12-06-2005 04:10 AM       View Profile for latearrival   Email latearrival   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for latearrival

Whoops. I forgot to mention this is basically a federal building. Although Embry Riddle Aeronautical University own and run it, it is The Federal Aviation Administration who we are contracted to. So actually it is, while they are here, a federal building. And still a huge decorated tree with an angel on top is standing in front of me.

I also know how kids can be cruel about almost anything. If not, they would not be so self conscious about the clothes they wear to school and so many would not be so concerned about wearing such expensive things as the “right clothes” or the “right sneakers”. I always insisted my children be themselves and yet my youngest daughter felt the pull of wanting to please her peers and dress their way. Where as I, because I was a little defensive tended to try and be an individual and painted my eyeglasses with red nail polish way back in the forties.  Added little charms around the neck of my cousin’s Navy sweater and was different once again. Because it was the only sweater I had and even thought it was too warm I wore it   proudly. I embroidered in between the pleats in my gym shorts because they were not the regulation type so I made them stand out more. I did not realize why I was doing all these minor things but as I grew up I did reconize what I had attempted to do. I was shy and this was the only way anyone even knew I was around. I did not want to look too poor to have the things others did so I made it look like I was just different.    

As a youngster I had a hard time, as I was a little WASP in a completely Polish, Irish and Italian Catholic neighborhood. I did not fit in. My old friend Marion was my best friend and she as a Polish Catholic never mentioned the difference as the others did. I was always taunted and asked to say my “prayers” as I did not know the standard Catholic prayers. Then on top of that I was of German heritage. I sure did have a time. But even then I would say, I am German and   Protestant and I am proud.  The very word ~- Protestant, means to protest for freedom to believe as we want to. Best to all,  marty jo
LeeJ
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23 posted 12-06-2005 07:24 AM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

I'd like to say, many thanks to you all for your input on this thread...and 2nd...

I suppose I should have been more clear, sorry folks....I'm not trying to change anyone's opinion...or belief...I believe diversity makes our nation go round...what I'm trying to do is "preserve" what we already have and what has exsisted in the US for years....and no matter who disagrees with me, I still love ya all and respect your beliefs...nor would I want to try and change them...or bully you into believing what I believe.  

I heard this subject talked about on the radio the other day....and have been silently observing these rights slowly being taken away even before the radio broadcast.  

There are some schools that no longer allow the Pledge of Allegiance to be said, and we all know, The Lord's Prayer is out...and there are radio stations that will play Christmas songs, hence, Frosty the Snowman, Jingle Bells, but deviate from playing the old Christmas Carols such as Silent Night, etc, that pertain to any Godliness.

And I do believe we are one nation under God, not just mine, but the God of every religion, race and Creed.

I no longer go to church, for my own personal reasons, but, this movement is gaining strength.  They are and have made it necessary to remove the 10 commandments from Court Houses.  

As far as my job is concerned, Ron, I disagree with you, again, if we are supposed to be diverse, then, I should be allowed to refrence the holiday as I please, according to my own personal culture, conditioning and upbringing.  

But, apparently, when I say Merry Christmas, this offends some people.  This is supposed to be wrong, and I can turn your comment around and say, I'm offended, when I am corrected and told that I must say Holiday?  What about my rights?  Respect mine, as well.  It works both ways, yanno?  or certainly should?  

If we are supposed to be a diverse nation, then, why comply and take what was there and worked for me and many others for so many years, away...isn't that an infringement on my belief, and the belief of many others?

What harm does it do to say Christmas...if and here's an example, if when Muslims go into get their photos taken for their drivers licences and they do not have to take off their religious head scarfs, ohhh, I'm at a loss for the name of their black apparal they wear, someone help me out please, but isn't that the same thing?  Diversity should apply to everyone, and I say, if you don't want to listen to the old fashioned Christmas Carols then turn them off...Ron, it's a two way street....all I'm trying to do is preserve what I've been raised to believe.  And if my workplace doesn't like Merry Christmas, tough...it's a word for Goodness sake...but my belief...yanno? I mean after all, some like vanilla ice cream, some like chocolate ice cream, right?  And it's my right to express...I respect you for liking Chocolate, why can't people respect my vanilla ice cream?  

So, for every argument you have, I can turn it around and argue the same....fair is fair, Ron, right?  You turn off your radio or turn the channel...

Anyone can come into this country and their beliefs are respected...but in the same, ours should, as well.  

Next they'll be taking the "In God we Trust" off our currancy.  And believe me, they will do it, and the other point I'm trying to make is people sit back asleep, unaware, in their protective world in denial and allow it to happen, instead of turning the table around on these people.  Fair is Fair.  

Would it then be politically correct, to have diverse currancy, or diverse schools or how bout diverse road signs, in all different languages...or diverse menus in a resturant?  I suppose what I'm trying to say, is, how far does this go.

Adding, my girlfriends grand-daughter is overwhelmed because she now has to learn how to count to a hundrend in Spanish?????  But that's another thread?  

This entire business of being politically correct is going way to far...I think?  I mean, in one way it's good, but there is always someone who carries things way beyond the norm.  

For goodness sake, if God offends anyone, then don't read it, don't say it, don't pray, whatever...but don't take my God away from me because it offends you, yanno?

And my statement about getting together and not purchasing Christmas Gifts to make a statement, was a statement in itself.  

If our stores lost a considerable amount of money over Christmas, my point was, they'd soon oust all and any negates toward these movements to abolish prayer, songs, & God.  
Money talks...and Christmas has always been they're biggest time of the year, regarding killer sales.

So Ron, I'm not trying to change your thoughts, your beliefs, or anyones for that matter...I'm fighting to preserve mine, to keep them sactioned and alive, as well.  
  
Yes, there are still Christain Radio Stations that play the old fashioned Christmas songs..., but others are getting away from such, due to not wanting any trouble from this movememt to abolish God or Christ or the Christ out of Christmas Trees, (and by the way, there are some people that are actually saying Holiday Trees to appease these people)..that is not diverse, or freedom of Religion.  

And although some schools are still practicing these rights, all it takes is one parent to complain, and vocalize a law suit and watch how quickly they win?

And so, I really do hope you all don't think I'm trying to be a vigulante here and force my beliefs down your throats, I'm not.  But would be a perfect world for me, is to preserve the same respect and regard for my feelings and beliefs...

and yes, I'm a party hearty kinda gal to, love it, and the festivities, and even open to party with any other religion who chooses to invite me into their home to share...and yes, religion by all means is a sacred thing which should be practiced at home Sharon, I agree whole heartidly...and low to anyone who tries to push their beliefs down my throat, I'm like a bear with a sawed off paw if that happens, but in the same, I suppose what I'm saying is, if we're supposed to be a diverse nation, then why oh why are they taking these things away from those of us who do believe.  How can that be allowed, as well?

Just look at some of these replys and how offended some of you were b/c I stated my opinion?  Because you thought, I was trying to take your rights away or bully my beliefs?...I'm not in the least, I started this thread b/c I'm asking for the same respect for my culture, yanno.  Don't take these things away from me, or my children's children.

I do string lights, and sing out joyously in celebration, joining in with other religious Holiday Beliefs, as I am diverse and curious to learn...but PLEASE....don't make me say Holiday, or take God from my culture...or those lovely Christmas Carols that I've sung since a child, b/c they contain some refrence to God/Jesus, yanno?

I wanted my son and want my grand-daughter to be able to pray the Lords Prayer and say the Pledge of Allegiance in School, b/c it is part of my culture.  I believe, and this is simply my belief...that a little guidence in morals, and belief can be a good thing, and we shouldn't have to fear rejection or controversy b/c we believe this way?


Now, would anyone like to join hands and sing
"Oh Little Town of Bethlehem"?


I hope I've made myself clearer...I started this thread out of concern for the Christains of the US, as I believe they should be allowed they're rights as well.  And I apologize if I've insulted anyone.

and Karen...big hugs to you to, & very many thanks to you


Hugs to ya'all for your participation






latearrival
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since 03-21-2003
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24 posted 12-06-2005 08:55 AM       View Profile for latearrival   Email latearrival   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for latearrival

Lee I think you have made yourself very clear. And you are correct.  I don’t think any one is really disagreeing with you. We are all just saying it differently and wish changes could be made slowly and fairly. One group should never be pushed aside for the needs and wants of another.  How far does it have to go? I sometimes wear a diversity pin and people ask me if it depicts my children? So I guess most people are just not aware. The pin has little children on it but some are white and some are black and one is wheels for a wheel chair. So how much attention are they paying? I agree we are all supposed to be worshiping one God. At least that is what I have been taught. What we as different cultures have done to make it so perverse is strange. How could religions that have started out to be so people friendly become so one minded?  I don’t have the answers. And I know what you mean by governments slowly taking away privileges. We did stand by and watch what happened to other countries and did nothing until it was too late. Nor did the citizens of those countries do anoything  until it was too late. They seemed to just let it happen. So we do have to be aware and not let it happen here.  I guess we have to come to understand each other more. We all seem to fear that which we know little about so it behooves us to learn as much as we can. I try and I do want to learn and understand other cultures. It just seems strange that whenever there is war religion seems to be behind it. Why? That is a question to which I will never find the answer.
Best to you  all and thank you for this for this thread.martyjo
 
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