Member Rara Avis
As far as my job is concerned, Ron, I disagree with you, again, if we are supposed to be diverse, then, I should be allowed to refrence the holiday as I please, according to my own personal culture, conditioning and upbringing.
You can, Lee. It's still entirely your choice and, indeed, if you are to have the courage of your convictions, I would recommend doing exactly that. Just be willing to accept the consequences, because you are NOT the only one with the right to do what they feel is best for them. I suspect your employer will exercise his right to run HIS business the way he wants.
Don't confuse diversity with anarchy. When you make the sacrifices your employer has made, and accept the risks he takes every day, then you get to call the shots. You can even, if you wish, tell all your employees to never, ever use the word holiday again because it offends you. Of course, it will still be up to them whether they are willing to accept your dictates or find themselves another job.
If we are supposed to be a diverse nation, then, why comply and take what was there and worked for me and many others for so many years, away...isn't that an infringement on my belief, and the belief of many others?
How 'bout 'cause it's the right thing to do, Lee?
Slavery worked for a good many people for a good many years, but that didn't mean it should be continued. Forcing people to sit in the back of the bus worked for even longer, but that never made it right. You may think this is an off-the-wall analogy, Lee, but what you're really arguing is that the desires of the majority should be imposed on the minority, and sorry, but that's the same argument I heard through most of the Sixties, too.
Yes, there are still Christain Radio Stations that play the old fashioned Christmas songs..., but others are getting away from such ...
Lee, there are many, many, many radio stations that play traditional Christmas songs, and not just the Christian stations, either. But that's not enough for you? You think everyone, every radio station, every newspaper, every TV channel should be forced to do what YOU want rather than what they want? I would think you'd find that a little hard to justify, even to yourself.
I wanted my son and want my grand-daughter to be able to pray the Lords Prayer and say the Pledge of Allegiance in School, b/c it is part of my culture. I believe, and this is simply my belief...that a little guidence in morals, and belief can be a good thing ...
And there, Lee, is the whole problem in a nutshell.
You don't have any right to provide moral guidance to MY children and grand-children.
We're like a lot of small families living in a huge old house, Lee. What you do in your own room is entirely your business, and if you want to run around butt-naked in front of your own kids, I think you are entirely within your rights to do so. When you walk in the living room, though, in front of MY kids, your rights have to be adjusted to mesh with my own. I promise I won't tell your kid to get a haircut if you'll just promise to keep your tush covered when you leave your room. The parts of the house we have to share, like the schools and public buildings we both pay to maintain, are necessarily places of compromise. You don't get to send your kids to school naked, even if that's part of your culture, and you certainly don't get to tell MY kids they should go naked, too.
Providing moral guidance to my family is my job, Lee, not yours.
The school is the first place a child goes to to participate in society. Their circles of interaction up to that point have been with parents, relatives or perhaps neighbors.....but, in school they are finally in a situation where they interact with other small beings their own age. That is their first introduction to society as we know it.
Part of the problem, Michael, is that you're right. But first . . .
. . . I would like to clarify something.
Those who no longer believe in a separation of church and state seem to think those who do are somehow concerned about offending others. I can only speak personally, but for me, nothing could be farther from the truth. I have several Jewish friends at the University where I taught, at least one Muslim of which I'm aware, and a whole raft of agnostics or atheists, all of whom will be sent Christmas cards and well wishes this year.
I don't apologize for my beliefs and I never worry whether practicing those beliefs will offend or even antagonize anyone.
However, I also don't stand in front of a classroom and preach on the taxpayer's dollar. Not directly and not even indirectly as would certainly be the case if I continuously referenced my religion or my God. Those students didn't pay their money to hear me preach, and their parents and families didn't pay their taxes so I would have a government sponsored pulpit. I don't abstain because I'm worried about offending anyone, Michael. I abstain because ten years from now, many of those students in front of me are going to be standing in front of their own classrooms, teaching our grandchildren and great-grandchildren.
I abstain today in fervent hope they will abstain tomorrow.
Separation of church and state isn't about fear of giving offence. It's about protecting everyone's right to worship in their own way. Sure, that means protecting the Jews and Muslims and Hindus from the Christians, but it also means protecting the Christians from the Jews, Muslims, Hindus, and especially from the other Christians.
You're right, Michael, the majority of five-year-olds entering the school system have no prior experience in that kind of social setting. Their parents probably only went to church on Easter and Christmas, if that, and the kids never had the opportunity to attend Sunday School two or three days a week, where they certainly would have been introduced to much the same kind of social interaction they would later discover in the public school system. I sympathize with those kids, Michael, as they watch Mommy say Merry Christmas to neighbor George, only to cuss out poor George as soon as he walks away because she thinks he was too lazy to shovel snow off his part of the shared sidewalk. I understand their confusion when they see Daddy hand the paperboy a small, brightly wrapped present, only to hear Daddy come home six hours later singing Christmas carols in a drunken stupor. I know their fear, too, when visiting Aunt Sally tells them they're going to burn in Hell some day. Of course, I'm probably exaggerating just a little . . . if only because nearly half those kids entering school at five probably only have one parent at home still setting bad examples for them.
Sorry, guys, but those just aren't the people I want teaching my kids and grand-kids the meaning of Christmas.
Again and again and yet again . . . that's my job, not yours, and certainly not theirs.