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Brad
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0 posted 09-12-2005 09:13 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

http://mediamatters.org/items/200509090003

quote:
But the second thought I had when I saw these people and they had to shut down the Astrodome and lock it down, I thought: I didn't think I could hate victims faster than the 9-11 victims. These guys -- you know it's really sad. We're not hearing anything about Mississippi. We're not hearing anything about Alabama. We're hearing about the victims in New Orleans. This is a 90,000-square-mile disaster site, New Orleans is 181 square miles. A hundred and -- 0.2 percent of the disaster area is New Orleans! And that's all we're hearing about, are the people in New Orleans. Those are the only ones we're seeing on television are the scumbags -- and again, it's not all the people in New Orleans. Most of the people in New Orleans got out! It's just a small percentage of those who were left in New Orleans, or who decided to stay in New Orleans, and they're getting all the attention. It's exactly like the 9-11 victims' families. There's about 10 of them that are spoiling it for everybody.

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2005/09/09.html

quote:
Williams: ..they[those who didn't get out of New Orleans] didn't have the necessary brains and common sense to get out of the way of a Cat 5 Hurricane and then when it hit them- stood on the side of the convention Center expiring while reporters were coming and going..

Morris:...that's just sickening---that is atrocious what you are saying..



You see, we shouldn't believe what the government says except,well, when they talk in the future tense?
Brad
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1 posted 09-12-2005 09:20 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

http://alternet.org/columnists/story/25267/

quote:
The exhausted and desperate black mayor of New Orleans begged for help in an interview late last week. "They're feeding the public a line of bull and they're spinning, and people are dying down here," Mayor Ray Nagin said, talking about the feds. "It's politics, man, and they are playing games. ... They're out there spinning for the cameras. ... I don't want to see anybody do any more goddamned press conferences. ... Excuse my French, everybody in America, but I am pissed. ...

"Don't tell me 40,000 people are coming here! They're not here! It's too doggone late. Now get off your asses and do something, and let's fix the biggest goddamned crisis in the history of this country. People are dying."

The mayor was in tears. I heard two nice, white American "ladies" deploring this interview. "Well! He should remember there might be children listening!" Children still without food and water. What happens to people when they talk about race? Of course, most of us don't actually talk about race any more, we refer to it only indirectly, we talk "those people."

Watch carefully, listen carefully -- minority groups have always been blamed after natural disasters, since the days when the Hungarians were supposed to have cut the fingers off bodies to get the gold rings in the wake of the Johnstown Flood. Dirty Bohunks.


Do we still want to talk about the 2000 mythical buses when the city of NO only had 300?
Brad
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2 posted 09-12-2005 09:22 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Oh wait, I forgot.


These people have a right to their opinion.

Balladeer
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3 posted 09-12-2005 09:45 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Not sure I understand this thread, Brad. Is it to list anti-Bush websites and discuss what they are saying? I'm confused...
Balladeer
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4 posted 09-12-2005 09:49 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

"Louisiana Governor
Kathleen Babineaux
Blanco commented, "The buses could have saved an estimated 20,000 people if they had been used for emergency evacuations which President Bush had declared two days before Katrina hit."
"According to WWLTV, during a news conference on Sunday before the hurricane struck, Mayor Nagin claimed he "could and would commandeer any property or vehicle it deemed necessary to provide safe shelter or transport for those in need", but hundreds of vehicles, including city and school district buses, went unused.



http://www.juiceenewsdaily.com/0605/sports/buses.html?1125879106453

300? 2000? Beats me but Blanco said 20,000 people, however many buses there were. She must have known how many to make that statement....


(Edit: url fixed. Alicat)

[This message has been edited by Alicat (09-13-2005 10:10 AM).]

Brad
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5 posted 09-12-2005 10:23 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2005/09/12.html#a4927

And there you have it. Bush is off the hook with his extraordinary response.

Hey, is that Nagin standing behind the President?
Balladeer
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6 posted 09-12-2005 11:37 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Brad, if I didn't know you better I would say there was sarcasm in them there words
Brad
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7 posted 09-13-2005 12:11 AM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Um, are double entendres sarcastic by definition?
Alicat
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8 posted 09-13-2005 10:20 AM       View Profile for Alicat   Email Alicat   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alicat

The bus fiasco is becoming just that.  Nagin said later the buses could not be used because they were flooded.  Which happened on Tuesday.  Evacuation orders were given on Saturday.  3 days to use those school buses to get people out of town.  Granted, some school and municiple buses were used by the local government to bus people to the Superdome...but not any points west.  When asked about the timing, Nagin commented that the workers couldn't be found, saying something to the effect that 'it's hard enough getting everyone to be at their jobs on a good day' while speaking about city employees.

The strange thing is that at least two school buses were taken by untrained bus drivers and driven, loaded with evacuees, to other places.
Brad
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9 posted 09-13-2005 06:49 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

http://mediamatters.org/items/200509120005

Should he have used the buses?

Of course.

quote:
But Pruden dramatically overstated the number of New Orleans school buses. As of 2003, the most recent year for which data appears to be available, the Orleans Parish school district, which operates New Orleans' public schools, owned only 324 school buses. In addition, a Louisiana Department of Transportation and Development profile of the New Orleans Regional Transit Authority (RTA), last updated May 5, notes that RTA owned 364 public buses, bringing the total of the city's public transit and school buses to fewer than 700 (assuming the fleet of school buses has not been dramatically increased since 2003), far fewer than the 2,000 Pruden claimed. Even so, Pruden's claim was repeated that evening on Fox News' Hannity & Colmes by co-host Sean Hannity, who insisted, "Two thousand buses sat; 2,000 school buses." The falsehood was echoed the next day by Fox news political analyst and former Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich (R-GA), who baselessly suggested that the city owned more than enough buses to help every poor person leave the city. And In a September 11 Pittsburgh Post-Gazette column, national security writer Jack Kelly asked, "[W]hy weren't the roughly 2,000 municipal and school buses in New Orleans utilized to take people out of the city before Katrina struck?"


Why do we have a dramatic change in the numbers?

Well,

quote:
In fact, The New York Times reported on September 4 that Louisiana emergency planners believed it would take as many as 2,000 buses "to evacuate an estimated 100,000 elderly and disabled people" in the event of a catastrophic hurricane like Katrina. But, The New York Times wrote, this was "far more than New Orleans possessed."


That is, the shift in numbers coincide with what was needed to evacuate all those in NO.

A coincidence?
Brad
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10 posted 09-13-2005 07:25 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

This is just a minor correction. Nagin didn't say that thing you think he did.

Mary Landrieu did.

Mary Landrieu

Though, to be honest, she struck me to be as clueless as Chertoff or Brown.
Huan Yi
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11 posted 09-13-2005 08:42 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi


The picture of all those buses
like lifeboats still on their davits
is going to take some explaining.

It may be the single most important image
in the argument now and later.


Balladeer
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12 posted 09-13-2005 09:10 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Brad, I have no idea in the world why you are beating drums over the bus issue. Regardless of the numbers, there WERE buses. Those buses could have been used to transport people. They weren't.....period. What battle are you fighting here?
Alicat
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13 posted 09-13-2005 09:31 PM       View Profile for Alicat   Email Alicat   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alicat

Thanks Brad for the clarification.  I heard it in passing on FoxNews and didn't completely catch the attributed source.  I thought it was Mayor Nagin or Governor Blanco, then my short term memory frazzled.  Looks like she has a pretty high opinion of civic workers in New Orleans. (insert sarcasm here)  Hope they remember her comments about them come election time.
Brad
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14 posted 09-13-2005 10:29 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Ali, I hear ya.

still more buses

quote:
. . . government documents surfaced showing that vital resources, such as buses and environmental health specialists, weren't deployed to the Gulf region for several days, even after federal officials seized control of Hurricane Katrina relief efforts.

...
In addition, FEMA's official requests, known as tasking assignments and used by the agency to demand help from other government agencies, show that it first asked the Department of Transportation to look for buses to help evacuate the more than 20,000 people who had taken refuge at the Superdome in New Orleans at 1:45 a.m. on Aug. 31. At the time, it only asked for 455 buses and 300 ambulances for the enormous task. Almost 18 hours later, it canceled the request for the ambulances because it turned out, as one FEMA employee put it, "the DOT doesn't do ambulances."

FEMA ended up modifying the number of buses it thought it needed to get the job done, until it settled on a final request of 1,355 buses at 8:05 p.m. on Sept. 3. The buses, though, trickled into New Orleans, with only a dozen or so arriving on the first day.


Mike, I'm not going after buses, I'm going after attack dogs. We all here seem to agree that everyone is at fault, but the AD's want to take it further. The basic premise is to blame the victim and the buses are a part of that.

If you have the time, scroll down and read the comments on this link. My favorite one mentions that his ten year old son could drive one of those buses.
Balladeer
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15 posted 09-13-2005 11:08 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

...and my favorite quote is Nagin saying he couldn't use the buses because they were flooded.

I have to repeat...so what? Whether people are attacking or not, there were buses and they weren't used. Are you saying attack dogs are sleazy? Please don't make me shoot coffee out of my nose!!!
Alicat
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16 posted 09-13-2005 11:24 PM       View Profile for Alicat   Email Alicat   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alicat

Thing is, Brad, that Mayor Nagin had the authority under Emergency Orders to use public and private trasportation for evacuation, and he issued orders for evacuations several days prior to the levies breaking.  Governor Blanco had the same authority.  FEMA could've had the authority had Governor Blanco allowed the Feds to take over the brewing emergency several days again before the levies broke.  Neither used everything in their power and arsenal to aid their citizens, instead using a few buses to bring people to the Superdome instead of moving them out of town.

Granted, at first glance it looked like New Orleans dodged the bullet...the first one.  Then came flooding from super saturated soil dumping water into the waterways from both local and upstream sources.  Having lived on the Texan Gulf Coast for several decades prior to moving here, flooding even if missed directly was a known fact for those downriver.  Rains super hard a bit east of Austin, and we're gonna have flooding in a few days from rivers, streams, and creeks cresting.  They have the Mississippi on one side, and a humongous lake on the other.  Surely those elected officials knew about those landmarks and how waterways react to heavy rains.
Balladeer
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17 posted 09-13-2005 11:46 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Well, mystery is solved. Nagin just said on Nightline that it wasn't the lack of buses, it was the lack of drivers.....
Local Rebel
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18 posted 09-13-2005 11:50 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

so... today the La AG charged the owners of a nursing home with negligent homicide because they let their patients drown...

why doesn't the same standard apply to Nagin, Blanco, Brown?
Local Rebel
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19 posted 09-13-2005 11:52 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

Yeah he said that Sunday morning to Tim Russert also...

couldn't get anybody to drive them...

I'd think some of the people in the superdome would have volunteered!  
Balladeer
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20 posted 09-14-2005 12:14 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

LOLOL!! I think you're right, reb


Brad
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21 posted 09-14-2005 06:26 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Well, it looks like Blanco is, legally, in the clear.

absolutely nothing to do with buses

quote:
Back on September 7th, Rep. John Conyers wrote to the Congressional Research Service (one of the few parts of the government that can legitimately  
Advertisement

  be called non-partisan) and asked them to review the record to see whether Gov. Blanco of Louisiana took the necessary steps in a timely fashion to secure federal assistance in the face of hurricane Katrina.

The report came back yesterday. Yes, she did. Read it yourself.


Not convinced that this lets her off the hook except legally, but maybe this will stop the lying about her failure to declare a state of emergency?

Probably not.


Brad
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22 posted 09-14-2005 06:42 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Charles Krauthammer

quote:
In less enlightened times there was no catastrophe independent of human agency. When the plague or some other natural disaster struck, witches were burned, Jews were massacred and all felt better (except the witches and Jews).

A few centuries later, our progressive thinkers have progressed not an inch. No fall of a sparrow on this planet is not attributed to sin and human perfidy. The three current favorites are: (1) global warming, (2) the war in Iraq and (3) tax cuts. Katrina hits and the unholy trinity is immediately invoked to damn sinner-in-chief George W. Bush.


Yeah, but who does he blame:

1. Nature or God is the culprit.

The aiders and abettors:

1. Mayor Nagin

2. Governor Blanco

3. FEMA head, Brown

4. The President

5. Congress

6. The American People

And I thought I was an equal opportunity blamer.
Midnitesun
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23 posted 09-14-2005 07:11 PM       View Profile for Midnitesun   Email Midnitesun   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Midnitesun

Today, our illustrious leader of the 'free world' has accepted the blame for the poor response.
Finally, someone steps up to the plate. Rarely do I agree with you, Mr President.
Today is an exception. As you are one of the ones responsible for the neutering of FEMA recently, I do feel it's good for you to put your shoulders out here for the public to accept some of the response blame. But since you have no super powers, we all know you can't be held responsible for Katrina's bad behavior. She caught you with your pants down, so to speak.
Balladeer
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24 posted 09-14-2005 09:37 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Blanco in the clear, Brad? That's nice. I have a question for you and Kacy and Noah...where is the outrage about Governor Blanco? i haven't seen any.

You have the Red Cross there outside the Superdome walls with food and supplies, ready to help the people inside who desperately need it, and you have Blanco ordering the national guard not to let them in. Where is the outrage? For all of you that looked at the people in deplorable conditions begging for help, how can you not be incensed by Blanco's refusal to allow them aid? For those  of you who screamed, "Damn you, Bush?" while the people were waiting for help, what about it? I mean, this is not a debatable event - the Red Cross reported it and Blanco acknowledged it. Help was there. Blanco chose not to let them have it. I ask but i know where your outrage is....it's at Bush. That's as far as some of you can see. Blanco is in the clear, Brad? I think Blanco has a LOT to still answer for....and hopefully will have to.

Noah stated that now that Bush has acknowledged mistakes, everything can move on. Kacy is glad, although with left-handed comments, that Bush has "come clean". No one insists that Blanco or Nagin make any similar acknowledgements. The Bush bash has never been more obvious...........
 
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