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Local Rebel
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75 posted 09-10-2005 01:08 AM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

I do.  But the irony of that, is you guys, conservatives, are supposed to be the ones who say he can't and shouldn't do that Mike.  

States rights.
Juju
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76 posted 09-10-2005 01:29 AM       View Profile for Juju   Email Juju   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Juju's Home Page   View IP for Juju

LR,
Give them a break.  Poor bushy man gets made fun of enough.
Brad
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77 posted 09-10-2005 04:33 AM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Sure, it could happen, Mike. There's enough talk on the internet that that would have inevitably come up. It might even have been picked up by some of the more bizarre 'major players.'

But would it have washed?

I don't think so. We already have a sound bite echo: "Extremism in the name of liberty is no vice"

change that to

"Extremism in the name of saving lives is no vice."

I think it would have been a PR bonanza for Bush.

And as I've already tried to point out, I don't think it would have been illegal -- at least according to the NRP.
Denise
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78 posted 09-10-2005 07:36 AM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

LR, you think conservatives advocate States rights over saving lives?
Ron
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79 posted 09-10-2005 09:25 AM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

Everyone should advocate State's Rights over saving lives. While that may seem bitterly harsh, it's long term thinking rather than short term. Saving one life today is a poor bargain if it costs a hundred lives twenty years down the road, and poorer yet when it throws away what thousands have died to protect. Expediency is an easy answer, but invariably the wrong one.
Local Rebel
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80 posted 09-10-2005 09:52 AM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

Strongly, vehemently, emphatically disagree Ron.  The Fed has the obligation and authority to protect the Constitutional rights of Citizens over the rights of States.

The Supreme Court has time and time again affirmed that we are Citizens of the United States -- not Citizens of States.

Denise, I think that there are a number of Conservatives who do think that.  Many are still protesting 'forced' desegregation.  

Brad
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81 posted 09-10-2005 10:49 AM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

I still don't see this issue as States' Rights issue.

Look, if your house is on fire, you don't expect FEMA to jump in, you expect the local fire department.

If there's a brush fire in Mojave or a freak pile up on the Grapevine (I 5)-- the state.

If you have a 7.0 earthquake or a category 4 or 5 hurricane, the feds.

I see Mike's scenario as a political move by the opposition and it could certainly happen, but I don't see how any state could or would turn down help in such a situation immediately and then go political later.



Why would they?
Ron
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82 posted 09-10-2005 10:56 AM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
The Fed has the obligation and authority to protect the Constitutional rights of Citizens over the rights of States.

And I strongly, vehemently, emphatically agree, LR. Which is why forced desegregation was necessary.

Forced desegregation, however, was not a cup of instant coffee. On the contrary, it had to brew for years over the sometimes slow heat of due process. Until the Supreme Court ruled on Brown v. Board of Education in 1954, the hands of the Federal government were effectively tied. It was not a unilateral decision by the Executive branch, which is already far too powerful in this country.

The tragic irony here is that it should never have been an either/or situation.

According to Balladeer's source :

"Behind the scenes, a power struggle emerged, as federal officials tried to wrest authority from Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco (D). Shortly before midnight Friday, the Bush administration sent her a proposed legal memorandum asking her to request a federal takeover of the evacuation of New Orleans, a source within the state’s emergency operations center said Saturday.

The administration sought unified control over all local police and state National Guard units reporting to the governor. Louisiana officials rejected the request after talks throughout the night, concerned that such a move would be comparable to a federal declaration of martial law."

What's with this "federal takeover" crap?

Michigan has sent three score police officers, nearly a hundred fire fighters, and countless emergency and charitable personnel to Louisiana in the past week and NOT ONCE has demanded that Governor Granholm be placed in charge. The Federal government clearly had resources available that could have helped save lives, and those resources should have been made available. Our gulf area needed help, not ultimatums.
Local Rebel
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83 posted 09-10-2005 11:17 AM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

Thanks Ron, for a second there I thought you lost your mind.  But, on Friday night there was a completely different set of circumstances -- the issue was the pre-evacuation of New Orleans.

The second the levee's broke on Tuesday -- that's when emergency powers do come to bear for the Executive -- and I think it would have been a Constitutional exercise of that power.

Brown v. Board is now settled law -- the tea is made.  
ice
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84 posted 09-10-2005 12:27 PM       View Profile for ice   Email ice   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for ice

­Jan., 1991
Ronald Reagan's FEMA chief publicly argued that the 1865 Posse Comitatus Act prohibited the military from arresting civilians...

But  Professor Diana Reynolds,  Fletcher School of Diplomacy , Boston- Tufts University

States that laws such  as the "Defense Industrial Revitalization and Disaster Relief Acts of 1983" " permits the president to do anything from seizing the means of industrial production, to conscripting a labor force, to relocating groups of citizens etc....thus in effect allowing him to override the constitution in times of national catastrophe..

Sounds to me like doing what he pleased was something that Bush could have done regardless of what Blanco said or agreed to, or said on the phone.

(Can anyone tell me why Bush insisted on doing that anyway? I mean only agreeing to show if the military would be in charge of keeping the law? With powers to arrest people?)

The congress at that time (1983) reinforced the act by giving the
military reserves an exemption from Posse Comitatus, by allowing them
power to arrest civilians. The National Guard, under the control of state
governors in peace time, is exempt from that act also, and can arrest
civilians legally...The governor has authority to demand that the National Guard use this law to bring stability back to the stricken region of its state, that is, the governor can give arrest powers to the guard in the event of crime witness, such as looting and other criminal activities during rescue and recovery. I thought I saw a guardsmen on TV say he was not there to be a policeman, but to only give his physical aid as help in recovery?

Perhaps the governor  refused to give the guards the order?

Perhaps the governor knew this, perhaps not..

On July 6, 1989, Bush (1) signed Executive Order 12681, pronouncing that FEMA's National Preparedness Directorate would "have as a primary function intelligence, counterintelligence, investigative, or national security work."
Perhaps this explains FEMA's poor performance in responding to the San Francisco earthquake (October, 1989) And Hurricane Hugo (Sept 1989)...The same preoccupation with war had weakened the effectiveness of FEMA, by order of the president, in my mind, the same scenario applies in this (Katrina) event, under Bush 2. The mindset seems the same.

FEMA was ill prepared to handle the results of the two natural occurring emergencies because its mission given it at that time was to plan their role in repressing domestic dissent in the event of an invasion abroad, and that took  their focus away from domestic catastrophe, prepardness issues.

At this point in time it should be remembered that FEMA was an organization that had been controlled by the  Reagan-Bush, war is the answer logic, and not what it eventually evolved into as time went by, and a more domestic, problem centered government developed, at least for eight years in which it did its duty in a much more natural disaster oriented manner.


I am way behind in following this most interesting thread, admitting I have not read every word of its transcript...My life is filled with business problems to solve...but I will add a bit to something that Baladeer said in a post a page back...

Baladeer..
"Who demanded FEMA come under control of Homeland Security? The Democratic Party."

(excerpt-June 12, 2002 Heritage Foundation web site-by Michael Scardaville
Backgrounder #1559)

"The President's proposal would not create a new federal bureaucracy; rather, it would combine existing federal agencies and offices that have homeland security responsibilities under one authority. For example, the President would transfer the new Transportation Security Administration and the Coast Guard to the DHS, which would remove all direct homeland security duties from the U.S. Department of Transportation. The President also would fold the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) and the Department of Agriculture's Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service (APHIS) into the DHS."

It seems like it was the presidents idea, to "fold" FEMA into DHS, at least according to this  conservative publication.
*
"Who is screaming the loudest about excessive beaurocracy in Washington and yet believes in bigger government? The Democratic Party".

This seems off topic to me, so I will not respond here. Perhaps we should open a new  thread and discuss this under a different heading....all I want to say about it is that I cannot find historical backing for that argument,  to the contrary, find information to disprove it.

Got to go see a client....will return later...

----------------ice
    ><>
..
­­
­
Local Rebel
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85 posted 09-10-2005 12:50 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

quote:

At this point in time it should be remembered that FEMA was an organization that had been controlled by the  Reagan-Bush, war is the answer logic, and not what it eventually evolved into as time went by, and a more domestic, problem centered government developed, at least for eight years in which it did its duty in a much more natural disaster oriented manner.



exactly -- and those 8 years were under James Lee Witt -- who had FEMA in great shape..

I am absolutely mystified by this though;

quote:

Before joining the Bush administration in 2001, Brown spent 11 years as the commissioner of judges and stewards for the International Arabian Horse Association..."This was his full-time job...for 11 years," [a spokeswoman] added.

Brown was forced out of the position after a spate of lawsuits over alleged supervision failures. "He was asked to resign," Bill Pennington, president of the IAHA at the time, confirmed last night.

Soon after, Brown was invited to join the administration by his old Oklahoma college roommate Joseph Allbaugh, the previous head of FEMA until he quit in 2003 to work for the president's re-election campaign.


http://business.bostonherald.com/businessNews/view.bg?articleid=100857&format=text




How do you go from running a horse club to being FEMA director?  Cronyism.
Tim
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86 posted 09-10-2005 02:37 PM       View Profile for Tim   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Tim

I think I have it.  The ultra-right(everyone to the left of Teddy Kennedy) secretly ordered the Atlantic fleet out into the Gulf and played Rush tapes over the gulf.  

The hot air catapulted Katrina into a category four hurricane (with only a slight nudge needed because of global warming)( also, there was no need to go to a category five as preplanning required only a three or four to breech the levees) at which time the religous right (everyone who believes in a diety) attended a Billy Graham crusade in Biloxi which created such an intellectual vacuum, Katrina was sucked into the Mississippi coast.

It goes without saying the levees had been secretly weakend by the neocons (rats love to tunnel in levees) as part of a plot to allow George Bush to fly in Air Force One (he likes to fly)(but only after he finished the song on the guitar).

I remember a saying when I first heard when I was in junior high some 35+ years ago-

there are those who fight the battles.  There are those who watch from the sidelines.  Finally, there are those who wait in the hills until the battle is over then come down and pick the bones.

Heck fire, this is progress, why wait until the battle is over, start picking on the bones while the fight is going on.

In any event, my vote for fault?  We are a government of the people and we get the type of government we choose.  I vote for the people of the United States and this includes the whole political spectrum.

And by the way, I do find it morally repugnant and intellectually lacking to interject politics and race into the midst of a natural disaster and such massive human suffering.


Midnitesun
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87 posted 09-10-2005 02:39 PM       View Profile for Midnitesun   Email Midnitesun   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Midnitesun

The head of FEMA should be a trained disaster relief professional, not a former horse show judge (who, from what I've heard, was fired for  incompetence in that posistion). While Brown must have some talents that are useful, he is also the proverbial scapegoat here.
I still think FEMA needs to be seperated out from DHS, and be run by people who have specific training and knowledge in disaster relief management.

And we should ask about THE PLAN. What plan? Who planned for water/food deliveries? who planned the initial evacuation? who was in charge of relocation services? who planned for the body retrievals? who planned for the disposal of the millions of tons of destroyed property, much of which contains asbestos and toxic materials?
Somehow, I can't help but think everyone expected 'the other leader' to be in charge. But what other leader? When its just one state involved, I guess it make sense that the governor is the primary leader, but this hurricane hit multiple states, and it was obvious from DAY ONE that a national/federal relief effort was needed. Thank God for the ARC, the Salvation Army, the millions of churches and private groups that stepped in immediately WITHOUT government leadership, and began to do what was needed. If we are going to expect/want the feds to handle emergencies, then we need to make sure they have the right people in place, and the OK to step in immediately no matter which state toes they step on. This disaster is clearly beyond anything any mayor or governor can handle on his/her own.
But we don't need more leaders and titles, we need people who are trained professionals in charge, not politicians.
Local Rebel
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88 posted 09-10-2005 02:49 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

Well to be fair Kacey we have to remember that Brown was the deputy director for three years, but, we all know what happens when Andy's not around and Barney takes the bullet out of his pocket.

How bad can you be when you're fired for not being able to manage a horse show?
Mistletoe Angel
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89 posted 09-10-2005 03:24 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

Tim, I agree with you that it is just inappropriate and wrong that many are insisting race had something to do with Katrina, and now this poison is leaking into some of our politics.

I've seen the new polls, and I understand that while nearly 80% of whites don't believe race played a role in the political nature of Katrina, about two-thirds of blacks think otherwise. I don't want to sound insensitive to the majority of blacks polled and I sympathize very much with them and always have, but I respectfully disagree with them.

Look, I understand that over 67% of New Orleans' population is African-American, in fact the whole region has an African-American majority. I understand that the poverty rate among its African-American population is three times the national average, which I agree is most unsettling. I understand that a vast majority of the 34% of New Orleans residents who live below the poverty line are African-American. I understand the frustration in their community and they need to be looked upon and listened to one way or another.

But I absolutely agree with Laura Bush when she denied that race slowed down the aid process during and in the aftermath of Katrina, and that the issue here is not race, it's about class and poverty.

I don't only strongly disagree with Dean that race is an issue here and believe he is dead wrong, I also can't understand how he expects to gain any political ground for the party out of this strategy. A strong majority of whites like myself disagree with him, and nine out of ten blacks already consistently vote Democrat anyway. What is he thinking, I just don't understand his leadership.

I reasonably understand that poverty will always exist in one way or another, no matter where you live in the world. Though it is a fact that more have fallen into poverty since Bush took office, poverty existed when Clinton was president, with his infamous Welfare Reform Act scarring many. Poverty existed under Lyndon B. Johnson when the minimum wage was worth about $3.50 more an hour than it is today. Heck, poverty existed under George Washington.

But it is inexcusable that the issue of improving and strengthening the American family and providing the basic qualities of life to all has very much been left on the backburner, or at least overshadowed by things like the war on Iraq and proposed constitutional amendments to ban gay marriage, and these issues rise far above any line, any distinction, any color of ones skin.

In Louisiana, there are 57,000 children who were eligible for this health-care program for low-income families called "La Chip" that have not been enrolled. That is an OUTRAGE, and a total, cruel embarrassment that we remain the only industrialized, first-world nation NOT to have universal health care coverage entitled to ALL citizens.

It's things like that that must be brought tot he national stage, front and center, as immediately as humanly possible, and if we can keep our hearts and minds focused on these issues, soon those parts of the nation that that new United Nations report state look like Third World communities will gradually vanish and, I hope, in the not so distant future visions of the Third World will be extinct in America.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton

"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

Mother Teresa

Balladeer
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90 posted 09-10-2005 05:06 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Who is screaming the loudest about excessive beaurocracy in Washington and yet believes in bigger government? The Democratic Party".

This seems off topic to me, so I will not respond here. Perhaps we should open a new  thread and discuss this under a different heading....all I want to say about it is that I cannot find historical backing for that argument,  to the contrary, find information to disprove it.


Ice, I would be very interested in seeing that disproving information. From what i have seen over the years is the Democratic party in favor of more organizations, more control, more federal power. I will also look for information concerning this point.

LR stated that, as a victim, he would go after all three heads of governement, assuming he means city, state and federal. Can anyone show me any condemnation of either Nagin or Blanco by the Democratic party? Their failings seem pretty well documented. I'm not saying there isn't any but I can't find an instance. According to the left there is only one culprit here....Bush. There is nothing new to that tactic. I feel assured that, if it were a Republican mayor and governor and a democrat in the White House, the mayor and governor would be getting barbequed and the Democratic president, whose offer of help was coldly rejected, would be the victim.
Brad
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91 posted 09-10-2005 06:25 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

What are you looking for? There are examples all over the place of people admitting that mistakes were made at all levels:

quote:
Even if you agree with every substantive criticism leveled at Gov. Blanco and Mayor Nagin (and at least some of the criticism seems warranted), the fact remains that once their poor management of this crisis became apparent and the lives of thousands remained at stake, and as the situation became progressively more untenable, the amelioration of the disaster became more and more of a federal responsibility by default. What exactly is the purpose of FEMA supposed to be, if not to respond to dire emergencies that have overwhelmed municipal and state response mechanisms?

http://www.tpmcafe.com/story/2005/9/7/213523/5913

But somehow I don't think that's going to satisfy you.  

The point is that, as far as I can tell, most democrats (there are always exceptions) do realize that mistakes were made, but we still don't see what that has to do with the mismanagement at the federal level.

Is there anybody who is a democrat or an independent, a libertarian or a liberal, who doesn't think that Nagin and Blanco screwed up?

Local Rebel
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92 posted 09-10-2005 06:36 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

It all depends on what you mean by 'Democrat' Mike.  I haven't heard any holding office criticize Nagin or Blanco -- unless you want to count Nagin pointing the finger at Blanco.

But it's working the other way too.  I haven't heard a seated Republican official criticizing the President or FEMA -- well no.. scratch that -- Trent Lott did say it was time for Brown to go.  But it's coming from the conservative press and former elected officials like Newt or Scarborough.

There again -- there are 'liberal' journalists/pundits who have spread the blame to the Mayor and Governor... that I've heard on radio and television -- but I can't find it on the web.

But what you have is a situation like Columbine -- where both sides start advancing their old agendas.  In that case the conservatives said basically -- 'see we need prayer in schools', liberals said -- 'see we need gun control'.

So now you have Dems proposing new Medicaid expansion and Reps going for school vouchers and repealing wage regulations for construction workers.

But you have Nagin and Blanco being villified by the poliicos in the White House which started immediately -- and of course they are being blasted relentlessly by talk radio.
Brad
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93 posted 09-10-2005 07:37 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

eleanorclift

quote:
Clift replied, "The blame game is a derogatory term for accountability and we've had failures on the part of government and our leaders at the local level, at the state level and at the presidential level."

Lowry interrupted to say "So that was a mistake? ...So Eleanor, you tonight are holding Governor Blanco accountable for trying to starve out evacuees last week from the Super Dome and the convention center? For the record, you're holding her accountable?"

Clift said Blanco was trying to get people to leave.

[Brad: if this is true, she'd better damn well be held accountable]

Lowry, excitedly asked, "Was it a good idea or not? Was it a good idea or not? ...Be straight, Eleanor!"

Clift told him to stop yelling at her. She said, "There's blame to go around but in the end, the federal government is our last defense and it's the failure of the federal government that has people in this country worried."

--------------------[trying to save space]

Colmes, addressing Reagan, called it "a shame" that "the same people accusing Democrats and liberals of blaming the president are the same ones who can't wait to blame the mayor, can't wait to blame the governor."

Reagan's answer was, in essence, that the other side started it first. "They started pointing fingers at the president of the United States," Reagan said. Blaming the mayor and the governor was "in order to come to the aid of the president."


You might want to check the transcripts on this one, but, if true, look at that last comment.

At least he's being honest.
Balladeer
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94 posted 09-10-2005 07:44 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

(and at least some of the criticism seems warranted)

"But somehow I don't think that's going to satisfy you."  -  Brad

Very perceptive of you, Brad. No, I was thinking of something more along the lines of this......

By TOM RAUM
The Associated Press
Wednesday, September 7, 2005; 10:18 PM

WASHINGTON -- Democrats, divided over President Bush's handling of Iraq, are coming down hard on his administration's response to Hurricane Katrina.

Some of the harshest words are coming from 2008 presidential hopefuls. Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York ridiculed relief coordinator Michael Brown's suggestions. Former North Carolina Sen. John Edwards said the hurricane's aftermath underscores the "two Americas" theme of his presidential campaign last year.

"It's piling on time," said Rutgers University political scientist Ross Baker.

Democrats, ready with talking points and working closely, went into full battle mode Wednesday.


Former Democratic vice presidential candidate John Edwards speaks Wednesday, Sept. 7, 2005, in Chapel Hill, N.C. Edwards joined critics who have panned the Bush administration's response to Hurricane Katrina, saying the president was slow and indecisive in making decisions about the disaster

Senate Democratic leader Harry Reid of Nevada pressed for a broad investigation that would explore questions such as "How much time did the president spend dealing with this emerging crisis while he was on vacation?"

`Oblivious. In denial. Dangerous,'' Rep. Nancy Pelosi, D-San Francisco, the House minority leader, said of President Bush as she stood in front of a battery of uniformed police officers and firefighters in a Capitol Hill ceremony that had originally been scheduled to commemorate the anniversary of Sept. 11. ``We need someone to take charge.''

``Americans should now harbor no illusions about the government's ability to respond effectively to disasters,'' she said. ``Our vulnerabilities were laid bare.''

Sen. John Kerry of Massachusetts, the Democratic presidential candidate in 2004, said in an interview: ``It's a summary of all that this administration is not in touch with and has faked and ducked and bobbed over the past four years. What you see here is a harvest of four years of complete avoidance of real problem solving and real governance in favor of spin and ideology.''

The liberal group Move-On.org Political Action organized an anti-Bush rally at the White House on Thursday featuring evacuees and signs reading "Shame" and "Help hurricane victims."

Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean escalated the debate on Katrina and race by blaming slow government response on the fact that many of the victims in New Orleans were poor and black.

Get a better idea now, Brad?

The Washington Post sums it up pretty well..

The immediate aftermath of Hurricane Katrina has looked like politics as usual. The Democrats are in a paroxysm of righteous indignation -- much of it justified but in the long run counterproductive. When Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid proposes that the Senate investigate whether President's Bush's vacation contributed to the disaster, the public response is likely to be: Give me a break! When the Democrats focus all their criticism on the GOP-led federal government and ignore the appalling lapses of Democratic administrations in New Orleans and Louisiana, they lose credibility.

Yes, of course, Democrats, independents, liberals and everyone else know that Nagin and Blanco share a large part of the blame....but that doesn't get into the rhetoric fed to the news media. That rhetoric is all reserved for the attack on Bush....they are not interested in laying blame where deserved but in placing it on Bush's head exclusively.

Brad
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95 posted 09-10-2005 07:52 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Blanco's incompetence

This is a big one.

quote:
Here's a bit of incompetence he relayed to me regarding the embattled (better word than incompetent?) Governor of Louisiana, Kathleen Blanco:

You've heard about a lot of the f--kups in the Hurricane Katrina emergency effort. I talked to Dad yesterday and he pointed out one you probably haven't heard of yet.

A lot of doctors (including him) rushed to New Orleans (at their own expense) to help in the effort. Doctors (especially in refugee centers like the convention center and the Superdome) were overworked and there weren't enough to deal with the health needs of refugees.

Dad doesn't have a license to practice medicine in Louisiana. He's licensed in Wyoming. Since licenses are issued by states, it's illegal for him to practice medicine in a state where he's not licensed. He can't (for example) just drive to South Dakota and go to work in a hospital there. He would need to be licensed by that state's medical board. He holds licenses in multiple states, but not Louisiana.

In emergencies like natural disasters it's normal for states to suspend this requirement and offer temporary reciprocity with the other 49 states, recognizing their licenses as being valid in the affected state. In an emergency, who cares where your doctor's license comes from? Usually this requires a proclamation from the governor stating that there's an emergency and that out-of-state licenses will temporarily be as good as in-state licenses.

In Louisiana, it took several days for the governor to issue such a proclamation. Meanwhile, doctors from all over the country just sat around in New Orleans, unable to do anything.


Now, be careful here. Even though 'Dad' is used here, it's still a second hand report.

But if true, and it rings true to me, Blanco has the same problem as Brown.  
Brad
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96 posted 09-10-2005 08:05 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

quote:
Sen. John Kerry of Massachusetts, the Democratic presidential candidate in 2004, said in an interview: ``It's a summary of all that this administration is not in touch with and has faked and ducked and bobbed over the past four years. What you see here is a harvest of four years of complete avoidance of real problem solving and real governance in favor of spin and ideology.''


He's right.

quote:
Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean escalated the debate on Katrina and race by blaming slow government response on the fact that many of the victims in New Orleans were poor and black.


He's right.

Listened to Mark Williams or Barbara Bush recently?

The difference is that democrats don't/didn't do anything about it either.

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97 posted 09-10-2005 08:19 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

But you have Nagin and Blanco being villified by the poliicos in the White House which started immediately

I would be very interested in seeing any comments by Bush or the White House politicos which villified or insulted or criticized either Blanco or Nagin from the beginning...or whenever....I haven't found any.
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98 posted 09-10-2005 08:29 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

The USA Today issued an excdellent synopsis of the actions, before, during and after the disaster..
The response and responsibilities in a disaster
By USA TODAY staff


The burden of planning for and responding to natural disasters is shared by scores of agencies at all levels of government. As the debate rages over what went wrong in New Orleans in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina and who was responsible, here's a look at the lines of authority when disaster strikes:


LOCAL GOVERNMENT

The first response to an emergency falls to local government, which is most familiar with local conditions. Its responsibilities include planning and prior arrangements for evacuation, shelter and first response by police, fire and medical personnel. In Louisiana, flood-protection levees also are the primary responsibility of local levee boards.

What was done before Katrina

On Aug. 27, two days before the storm hit, New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin warned his citizens not to be complacent. He advised people to board up their homes, fill their gas tanks and gather their medications. For people without cars or other ways to flee, the city designated the Superdome, convention center and other sites as temporary shelters. City bus pickups were available.

Nagin did not at first make the evacuation mandatory, and it's unclear whether the city plans included those in nursing homes or homebound residents. About 134,000 residents had no transportation, but the city didn't provide for that need.

The next day, Nagin made evacuation mandatory. "The storm surge will most likely topple our levee system," he said.

For years, engineers had warned that the levees were weak, but they hadn't been shored up because of funding shortfalls and disputes over their location and environmental impact.

What has happened since Aug. 29

Nagin's prediction came true, and the flood that followed made it clear the city was unable to cope.

A third of the city's police force, many dealing with relocating their own families, failed to show up for work. Looting was rampant, and gunshots were fired at rescue workers.

"Man, I had a pretty good plan until this latest crisis," Nagin said Aug. 30, a reference to initial failed efforts to plug a growing hole in the 17th Street Canal levee. "We need resources, and the National Guard and the Army," he said, but he stopped short of asking that martial law be declared. The Superdome became a squalid camp. (Related story: Lessons learned)

STATE GOVERNMENT

When local resources are overtaxed, the state steps in with logistical help and manpower. The state's main resource is the National Guard, which is under the control of the governor. The state also is a source of matching funds that, combined with federal money, go to build levees.

What was done before Katrina

Gov. Kathleen Blanco warned citizens to evacuate, and the state's Transportation Department and police managed traffic flow north. On Aug. 26, as the storm approached, Blanco declared a state of emergency.

Two days later, she wrote President Bush to ask for help, saying the crisis was "beyond the capabilities of the state and affected local governments."

About 65% of the state's Guard troops were available, the rest depleted by deployments to the Iraq war, anemic recruiting and other reasons.

What has happened since

Once looting broke out, there was a lag in getting troops to restore order.


By Aug. 31, the state had activated 3,780 Guard troops, and others were on the way from other states. It would be two more days before a significant presence became visible in the city.

There was a delay while Blanco and the White House grappled over whether to turn over law enforcement authority to the federal government, and whether all Guard troops should be put under federal control — both of which the governor resisted.

FEDERAL GOVERNMENT

Washington is the final stop when disasters outstrip state and local resources. When called upon, the Federal Emergency Management Agency takes the lead in coordinating the response, providing supplies and helping with cleanup and aid to those whose homes are destroyed. It can also enlist the Defense Department for troops, air and sealift help.

What was done before Katrina

On Aug. 27, President Bush, on vacation at his Texas ranch, declared a state of emergency in Louisiana. The next day, FEMA was moving response teams to Shreveport, La., and Jackson, Miss., and stockpiling relief supplies in Atlanta and Denton, Texas.


The Army Corps of Engineers, which built most of the flood-protection levees in the region, pulled its personnel to a safe distance, expecting rising water from the storm would top the levees.

That meant no one was checking the levees, and "that's the reason why we had a tough time understanding" the developing crisis, said Lt. Gen. Carl Strock, corps commander.

What has happened since

On Aug. 30, the day after the storm hit, Bush made a V-J Day speech in San Diego, prefacing it with some remarks about the disaster. After the event, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said the Pentagon has "a lot of capabilities that are engaged and on standby."

The next day, Bush ended his vacation two days early and returned to Washington.

In an interview with ABC News on Sept. 1, the president said, "I don't think anybody anticipated the breach of the levees."

In fact, FEMA had run a mock disaster exercise a year ago in which the levees were breached by a fictitious "Hurricane Pam."

The White House issued a fact sheet detailing the federal government's response, including 50 medical assistance teams, 25 search-and-rescue task forces and 1,700 trucks to move supplies. Eight Navy ships were headed to the Gulf of Mexico, though they would take days to arrive.

Bush's management team at FEMA came in for criticism, particularly from editorial pages and Democratic leaders such as Sen. Harry Reid of Nevada and Rep. Nancy Pelosi of California. Charges included slow decision-making, spurning offers of aid from the Red Cross and states, and a lack of experience in managing disasters, particularly for FEMA Director Michael Brown.

Members of Congress such as Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York questioned whether folding FEMA into the Department of Homeland Security had weakened its disaster-relief role amid a heightened emphasis on fighting terrorism.

Reporting by Jim Drinkard and Tom Vanden Brook. Contributing: Peter Eisler, Mimi Hall, Judy Keen, Steven Komarow, Dave Moniz and Matt Kelley.


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99 posted 09-10-2005 09:16 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

Well, I agree with a majority of the comments that were made by Democrats in criticism of Bush's response, minus Dean's ridiculous race card claim.

I believe Blanco and others in lower levels of the government have their own serious issues to deal with, and justice must be brought to light in the local and state levels of the government. But as was pointed out earlier, which Joe Scarborough and Eleanor Clift's comments echo that reasoning, yes, Nagin has the responsibility governing the city of New Orleans, while Barbour has the responsibility of governing the people of Louisiana, just as here in Oregon Tom Potter has the responsibility of governing Portland and Ted Kulongowski governs the people of Oregon, but it is the president and the federal government that represents the American people collectively, and they have a most important role in collaborating with the lower governments likewise, and, in the end, it is the president that calls in the National Guard, FEMA officials, etc.

It is obvious not just Bush, but the government's response was poor. Yet one statistic that has been overlooked here in polls is that almost half of Republicans believe (and mind you again the poll asks not about Bush alone but the federal government) believe they did either an excellent or good job responding, as indicated in this new Newsweek poll:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9280375/site/newsweek/

I imagine the bulk of this half of the GOP who believe that are the same loyalists who have consistently backed him up within the past two-and-a-half years, who shout in outrage over the federal government being politicized over Katrina yet staunchly support Bush every time he exploits 9/11 and the victims as political fuel for his disastrous Iraq policy.

It's true that the Democrats are directing much of their offense towards Bush right now, but all at once I find they are also showing the better leadership right now.

It was a Democrat, Congressman John D. Dingell, who introduced legislation Tuesday to remove FEMA from the Department of Homeland Security and turn it into an independent agency headed by a Cabinet-level executive, which I absolutely agree with. James Lee Witt agrees too.

It was John Conyers, along with Feingold and other Democrats, that have been preparing legislation to protect Katrina victims from being penalized by the new infamous bamkruptcy laws that go into effect next month to make it more difficult for citizens to file for bankruptcy, with this legislation offering flexibility for the victims in the proceedings.

The Democrats have also made efforts in offering the victims easier access to food stamps, better chances at enrollment in Medicaid, and federal assistance in helping students from displaced families find a way into a school district.

Pelosi was probably the lead politician from either party to call for the firing of Michael Brown (who was thankfully been removed from the Katrina duty to prepare for the next possible storm) and she is also the one calling for a "Select Hurricane Relief Task Force".

The Democrats are the ones who are united in calling for an independent investigation into all the efforts surrounding Katrina.

Finally, the Democrats were who made efforts within the past two years to boost funding for FEMA and the Army Corps of Engineers, whose efforts were shot down.

I believe while the Democrats are going on the offensive against Bush and the federal government here, they are also proving to be conveniently multi-tasked in making these sort of positive efforts to help the victims adjust back to their lifestyles.

I hope the administration takes their efforts to heart here, rather than suspending minimum wages to protect the interess of insurance companies and offering tax breaks to oil companies who've already exploited many consumers in this tragedy. I hope they can show leadership at the public level now, something which was completely lost several days after Katrina struck.

That $51.8 billion Bush urged Congress to pass and did is a start.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton

"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

Mother Teresa

 
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