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Passions in Poetry

Consensus

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Local Rebel
Member Ascendant
since 12-21-1999
Posts 5742
Southern Abstentia


25 posted 09-07-2005 05:57 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

Ess, here's where what you say is right.  Until we have a new energy paradaigm at work we have to be conservative with the old system.  People shoudn't waste energy.

CAFE standards should be raised -- that's the Corporate Average Fuel Economy standards that the government sets for the entire product offering of vehicles a manufacturer makes.  

There are other things that can be done too -- walking more to the grocery store... using something like a multi-use canvas tote bag instead of paper bags, which use trees that are carbon sinks and waste energy that puts carbon back into the air, or plastic bags which many are petroleum based and require carbon producing energy to make...  there are 100 things people could do every day to cut down on usage.

But that shouldn't stop us from starting the switch now.  We need an entire infrastructure overhaul to pull this off.  If we hadn't had TVA and WPA there would be no infrastructure to this day in some areas of the country for roads or electricity if we'd waited for the private sector to produce.

Huan...

You should learn the Serenity Prayer.

[This message has been edited by Local Rebel (09-07-2005 08:01 PM).]

Essorant
Member Elite
since 08-10-2002
Posts 4689
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada


26 posted 09-08-2005 02:13 AM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

I still can't see "better" cars as being a very  substantial solution to the the general conditions that these machines put on people and the world.  The gun has been adjusted and "bettered" for ages and ages and I think it basically has the same danger as it ever did as a weapon.
But the frequency and spread of the danger coming on people is prevented where guns are restricted from being common things in the hands of people.  Laws, restrictions, and closer control by authorities over the things that present a danger to civilization, truly offer salvation to people.  
I think just as the gun's dangers remain basically the same, the car's basic dangers do as well, whereever these are set into our life.  Guns and cars shall always be destructive.  There shall always be little adjustments, bigger, smaller, more powerful, less powerful, more dangerous, less dangerous, etc But in the end for me, both still send a destructive bullet into life.  The only thing that shall make that danger less is by making its presence more restricted in society.  
Local Rebel
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since 12-21-1999
Posts 5742
Southern Abstentia


27 posted 09-08-2005 09:03 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

There's a fundamental difference between the  quality function deployments of cars and guns though Ess:

In cars we want to:

1. Transport people from one place to another

Maximize
2. Luxury/Comfort/Amenities/Appearance
3. Safety
4. Power/Speed/Capacity

Minimize
5. Fuel requirements/ Pollution
6. Maintenance/Breakdowns
7. Accidents/Injury/Death


With guns we want to:

1. Kill or harm people or animals

Maximize
2. Stopping power
3. Accuracy
4. Round Capacity

Minimize
5. Misfires/Jams
6. Re-loading time
7. Missing the target

Vehicles today are much safer than they were 50, 40, 30, or even 20 years ago because we continue to improve them.  The only reason we aren't improving fuel economy is because after the initial shortage in the 70s there was a move toward fuel-efficient vehicles and alternative energy sources.  The oil cartels decided this wasn't good -- nobody was going to buy their oil... so they dropped the price -- and sure enough -- speed limits went back up, cars got bigger and used more gas.

The harmful effects of automobiles are the things we don't intend them to do.  The harmful effects of guns are their intended purpose.
Essorant
Member Elite
since 08-10-2002
Posts 4689
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada


28 posted 09-12-2005 04:27 AM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

The harmful effects of automobiles are the things we don't intend them to do.  The harmful effects of guns are their intended purpose.

What's the difference?

Local Rebel
Member Ascendant
since 12-21-1999
Posts 5742
Southern Abstentia


29 posted 09-12-2005 06:44 AM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

Thanks for the question Ess,

The difference is that through continual improvement we can, and do, eliminate the harmful effects of automobiles.  

With catalytic converters we've significantly reduced the pollutants that have generated smog and contributed to global warming.  We've changed the refrigirants in automotive (and other) air conditioners to one that is more ozone friendly. In time we'll eliminate carbon emissions too -- one way or another.

With air-bags, front and side, we've significantly reduced the likelihood of traffic deaths from collisions.  And, with anti-lock braking systems we've reduced the likelihood of some kinds of accidents.

If we were to deploy a power distribution system like the one I haven't completely described here, we could also significantly eliminate other types of accidents too because turning cars into AGV's would be very simple too.  (AGV's are automatic guided vehicles).

Of course, we can turn car's into AGV's without my power distribution system too -- but it would be kind of silly to do since 90% of the labor to do it would still be involved and then we'd have the redundancy of on-board fuel, fuel cells, fueling stations to add on top.

With guns -- you can never minimize the harmful effects because that's what they do.
Essorant
Member Elite
since 08-10-2002
Posts 4689
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada


30 posted 09-14-2005 01:46 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

I still think your approach misses addressing a very important point.
The earliest and crudest cars, in the small number they were at first, were far more safer to people and the world in general than today's safer cars as they are spread and multiplied into the thickness they are in now.  Perhaps they were less safe to the individuals driving them; but those aspects of danger were not extended and fixed as a general condition over other people and the city as a whole and the world. The individuals themselves enjoyed them, and whatever risk and danger was in using the car itself was mostly only upon themselves.  It was not a condition that really overwhelmed whole cities, threatened people and their health, threatened the balance of nature and fulfilled those threats with much deterioration, damage and death.  There are the immediate and more obvious harms, and there are also less obvious and more gradual harms that decrease quality in urban life, and decrease rural life.  And it is not more the excess of populations, but the excess of their choice for and their method of moving, cars, that is to blame.  It makes the effect of a form of "pollution" in themselves and their condition right here on our level, apart from the pollution it sends above or below, that hinders our ability to live socially, healthily and beautifully on the very surface of the world.  But it also has symptoms of an addiction, because people keep on pursuing more and more, and seem unwilling to admit the problem, or consider freeing themselves from it.  It seems people think more or less "we are locked into this condition, and there's no way out."  I simply can't accept that.
Therefore if you see that we need much better, you must bow to this truth too: we also need much less.

[This message has been edited by Essorant (09-14-2005 03:13 PM).]

 
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