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Katrina

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Brad
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75 posted 09-05-2005 08:49 AM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Ali,

That's just part of the transcript from "Meet the Press". See the above link. If you have time, please listen to it, or if you want I can post the video. If you want me to try to corroborate every statement he made, well, that's going to take some time.

I do know that the Red Cross was barred from the city for a while -- the sniper thing.

The point of that quote, though, was that the local governments, with whatever mistakes they may have made, expected the national government to step in. I expected the national government to step in (from personal experience, not political leanings), and that just didn't happen.

Blame the local governments all you want. I would be surprised if that didn't make any mistakes. Blame past administrations if you want, I don't care. But it doesn't change the point that people expected the FEMA and the Feds to help and they didn't.

They said everything was fine.

It wasn't.

Not A Poet
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76 posted 09-05-2005 12:15 PM       View Profile for Not A Poet   Email Not A Poet   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Not A Poet's Home Page   View IP for Not A Poet

One thing that damn sure slowed down any rescue efforts was the snipers shooting at the rescuers.
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77 posted 09-05-2005 03:44 PM       View Profile for LoveBug   Email LoveBug   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LoveBug

People are still insisting on staying. They should be forcably removed and taken to a safe place, because, obviously, they do not have the mental capacity to act on behalf of their own safety.

And, I'm not condoning anyone to turned to violence, but when you let people starve for a week, its not going to be pretty.


Music pours over the sense
And in a funny way
Music sees more than I..it remembers better...
I have forgotten all the rest-Anne Sexton
vlraynes
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78 posted 09-05-2005 04:02 PM       View Profile for vlraynes   Email vlraynes   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit vlraynes's Home Page   View IP for vlraynes

The looting and other violence started on the first day, Erica...

and?...


Quote:


...when is it time to get angry?




Right after we get BUSY, doing everything we can to help...

Just my opinion, of course...

[This message has been edited by vlraynes (09-05-2005 09:59 PM).]

Huan Yi
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79 posted 09-05-2005 04:10 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

"obviously, they do not have the mental capacity to act on behalf of their own safety."


Anyone care to field that?


“NEW ORLEANS  — New Orleans police officers are moving through the Hurricane Katrina (search)-devastated city and trying to get thousands of residents who have resisted moving to leave, a deputy police chief said Monday.”

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,168507,00.html


.........................................

"But it doesn't change the point that people expected the FEMA and the Feds to help and they didn't."

Sounds like God
without the threat of Hell
if you don't shut up.

So what, we now have a new religion?

[This message has been edited by Huan Yi (09-05-2005 04:50 PM).]

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80 posted 09-05-2005 05:11 PM       View Profile for LoveBug   Email LoveBug   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LoveBug

"Right after we get BUSY, doing everything we can to help..."

Well, I don't know, I'd rather hear about what to do to make the reponse better than to hear everyone brag about what they have done to help, how we're all little angels.

And huan.. what are you even talking about in your last statement?
vlraynes
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81 posted 09-05-2005 05:13 PM       View Profile for vlraynes   Email vlraynes   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit vlraynes's Home Page   View IP for vlraynes

"Well, I don't know, I'd rather hear about what to do to make the reponse better than to hear everyone brag about what they have done to help, how we're all little angels."

If that's all you heard from my comment, Erica?... then you weren't listening...

Nevermind...

[This message has been edited by vlraynes (09-05-2005 10:00 PM).]

Brad
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82 posted 09-05-2005 07:33 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/05/national/nationalspecial/05bush.html

quote:
[Karl Rove and company] directed administration officials not to respond to attacks from Democrats on the relief efforts, and sought to move the blame for the slow response to Louisiana state officials, according to Republicans familiar with the White House plan.


Politics is so political.
Brad
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83 posted 09-05-2005 07:47 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

http://mediamatters.org/items/200509020001

This is video clip of Sawyer's interview.

You know, the one where Bush says: "nobody anticipated the breach in the levees."

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84 posted 09-05-2005 08:41 PM       View Profile for LoveBug   Email LoveBug   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LoveBug

Well, I don't know, I've been nagged ever since this happened for just 'sitting around and complaining'. Well, I've done more than that, but i think the most important thing is to stand up and state that what happened wasn't right, that it was terribly wrong.

And please spell my name right if you're going to scold me.

Music pours over the sense
And in a funny way
Music sees more than I..it remembers better...
I have forgotten all the rest-Anne Sexton

vlraynes
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85 posted 09-05-2005 09:53 PM       View Profile for vlraynes   Email vlraynes   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit vlraynes's Home Page   View IP for vlraynes

Okay.. first of all, Erica(?)... I sincerely apologize for spelling your name incorrectly... I guess it's been awhile...

Secondly, I wasn't 'scolding' you...

and thirdly... I don't believe I've ever 'nagged' you about anything...

I was simply stating my opinion... I thought I was allowed...

Sorry to have voiced my thoughts... and to have offended you...

Brad
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86 posted 09-05-2005 10:10 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Uh, guys, I think this was my fault.

It's certainly a noble idea that we should all be above politics except when that noble idea becomes a political tool.

look at this transcript from Fox news:

quote:
CAVUTO: Yeah. But you be careful there 'cause we're still doing a version of that blame game ....

SMITH: Of course it doesn't serve any good. It doesn't get New Orleans people to safety any faster. It doesn't help rebuild the city any faster. That having been said, there seems to be no event now that happens either here or on foreign soil that isn't subject to the political blame game, whether it be 9/11, whether it be Iraq.

CAVUTO: That's a very good point.

SMITH: Even though good things tend to come out it, there certainly will be fingers pointed and like Herman says, it's a complete waste of time.

CAVUTO: But Scott you're already pointing fingers yourself.

BLEIER: Well, the blame game serves a very useful purpose. It teaches us how to handle these problems going forward. Obviously things could have been done better. Obviously we could have been more prepared. I mean, 80% of the population of New Orleans got the heck out of there. There was enough warning. But why couldn't there be food and water airlifted the very next day? In other hurricanes the National Guard goes in the very next day. Look a lot of this is incumbent on local politicians. Ironically, this was published on September 11th, 2001. (Holds up copy of an article in Popular Mechanics) "New Orleans Is Sinking." It's talking about how there are two major catastrophes that could happen in this country. One, an earthquake in California and, two, a flood in Mississippi and New Orleans.

CAVUTO: So even back then and long before then, the warnings were there. Terry, what do you think?

KEENAN: Scott has a good point there but the blame game, as pointless as it is - and I agree, it's pointless - is gonna continue and people who hate President Bush are gonna use this. The timing is bad, it was August, reminiscent of what happened before two thousand - 9/11 -and people - people are gonna use that. the New York Times has started already with an editorial yesterday, tying this to Iraq and ...

BLEIER: The President wanted to go there! The President wanted to go on Wednesday. Advisors told him "No, you can't go yet."

HEENAN: Well, that just shows how bad the situation is ...

BLEIER: Absolutely. Absol ...

HEENAN: ... if it's not safe enough or the President.

BLEIER: Absolutely.

CAVUTO: Well, Jim Rogers, you've been arguing as someone from this area that the levees have always been a problem and always been a corrupt source of issue for politicians there.

ROGERS: Neil. Neil. None of this had to happen. Most of this did not have to happen. Those levees have been there - the Levee Board in New Orleans in the past ten years has bought a casino, a private marina, a private plane. They have several hundred million dollars invested with their friends but they have not taken care of the levees. If somebody had protected those levees, New Orleans would not have flooded, so this is caused by local politicians and they should all resign. They're screaming at the President. They should be resigning. They brought it on themselves . . . .

http://www.newshounds.us/

This would be funny if it weren't so tragic.
Mistletoe Angel
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87 posted 09-05-2005 11:07 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

Hi everyone, just got back earlier from a Labor Day getaway with my grandparents on the Oregon coast in Lincoln City, where we rented a beachhouse and caught up on the times.

Indeed Katrina was an omnipresent theme of discussion as we were together. My grandparents often like to consider themselves conservative Democrats, who agree with me on some issues like Iraq but disagree sharply on abortion, stem cell research and other issues like that.

But it was great to be with them and find common ground on Katrina, where we all agreed the Bush Administration and FEMA's responses were very poor.

*****

The more I've read and learned about this, I absolutely believe the government could have taken this so much more seriously and do more to prepare to aid the victims in this tragedy, and that our government has failed in this security response, and in result of the failure, there are a number of deaths, a significant number preventable, on FEMA's watch especially.

Like I've said early in this thread, this hurricane couldn't have been stopped, and it was inevitable New Orleans, Biloxi, etc. would still be quite damaged, make no mistake of that reality.

What's inexcusable is the demeanor our government in general had from when meteorlogists began to warn us that Katrina was breaking away from its predicted path along the western side of Florida's peninsula to after the storm had hit the coast hard and silence remained throughout homeland security.

On FEMA's part, which I place the most blame in particular, they clearly stated in 2001, before 9/11, that the three most likely catastrophic events to occur were a hurricane hitting New Orleans,a  terrorist attack in New York City and a major earthquake striking San Francisco.

The following year, officials in New Orleans held a simulation of what would happen in a category 5 storm on the city, which detailed many of the same probabilities that truly happened in this storm. Later that year, on an edition of NOW! with Bill Moyers aired September 20, 2003, the emergency coordinator of Jefferson Parish reinsisted those claims:
http://www.pbs.org/now/printable/transcript_neworleans_print.html

So FEMA was well aware of what could happen. Yet, after the first warning from the National Weather Service on August 28th, after we learned of the changing trajectory of Katrina, after it even hit the city, FEMA failed miserably in responding.

*****

As for the administration, one which I have admittedly criticized for a majority of things within the past two and a half years, well, Bush was busy comparing Iraq to World War II and learning to play country swing with Mark Wills, while Condoleezza Rice was busy ctaching a Broadway show and shopping for shoes on Fifth Avenue in New York City, after the storm hit the coast to begin with.

*****

I think finger-pointing is justified here. Many of the victims and their families are just this angry, many feeling abandoned and left to fend for themselves. This is America after all, and what happened this past week just shouldn't be happening here.

There's a deep concern that should be coming out from all this. The 2004 election season was largely rooted in which candidate would do the best job defending this great nation. This administration made a most successful effort and campaign in making the opposition appear incapable of making the nation safe.

After this display, how could we feel so safe? This only makes this great nation look more vulnerable than ever to a future sort of attack, whether natural or terrorist-related, and that if the government seriously believes it did all it could in responding to this, this is the exact same speed they will respond to whatever may come next.

I believe in light of that I have every right to be most critical of the performance on their parts.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton

"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

Mother Teresa

Mistletoe Angel
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88 posted 09-06-2005 12:25 AM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

Here's a load of questions that I'd certainly like to hear FEMA officials respond to:

*****

1) http://news.ft.com/cms/s/84aa35cc-1da8-11da-b40b-00000e2511c8.html

Why did they refuse to accept Amtrak's help in preparing evacuations?

2) http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/9/5/105538/7048

Why did they turn away experienced firefighters/doctors?

3) NY Times article about Coast Guard and Wal-Mart

Why did they turn away Wal-Mart's offer to offer supply trucks, as well as prevent the Coast Guard from delivering fuel?

4) http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05246/565143.stm

Why'd they prevent the Red Cross from delivering food?

5) http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=15147862&BRD=1817&amp ;amp;PAG=461&dept_id=68561&rfi=6

Why'd they block morticians from entering the city?

6) http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-0509040369sep04,1,4144  825.story?ctrack=1&cset=true

Why didn't they work to fully prepare a Navy ship with a 600-bed hospital on board?

7) http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-050902daley,1,2011979.story?coll=chi-ne  ws-hed

Why'd they only request one single truck from Chicago?

8) http://www.wwltv.com/local/stories/WWLBLOG.ac3fcea.html

Why'd they turn away offers for back-up generators?

9) http://www.fema.gov/news/newsrelease.fema?id=18470

Generally speaking, why are they insisting responders not to do so?

*****

It almost seems to me FEMA is doing more in preventing help from coming than allowing help in coming.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton


"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

Mother Teresa



Edited: Gave NY times link a name to shorten hyperlink space.

[This message has been edited by Alicat (09-06-2005 12:48 AM).]

Alicat
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89 posted 09-06-2005 12:50 AM       View Profile for Alicat   Email Alicat   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alicat

Beaurocracy and confusion.  Add in red tape from federal, state and local beaurocracy and Congressional laws and mandates.  Boil and then put in deep freeze.  Serve cold.
Mistletoe Angel
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90 posted 09-06-2005 01:25 AM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

I think you summarized it well enough here, Alicat!

Indeed I've also learned how disastrous the credentials of their director Michael Brown is, who seemed to have little if no experience in national security whatsoever, and in fact the last thing he was known for was his role as commissioner of the International Arabian Horse Association...and he was fired there.

This man should be fired...period...for this most inappropriate delayed response that has cost the preventable lives of dozens in Louisiana and Mississippi. I hope Bush (who I also find deeply at fault in this) comes to his senses, backs away from the "Brownie, you're doing a heck of a job." rhetoric and sees to it effective, trustworthy leadership is assigned to control to the department.

Now, I'm already well aware that Bush is not the kind of person who likes to fire anyone, perhaps because he's a Cancer, and Cancers are known for being very "family-oriented", where they are often most reluctant to soar beyond the family nest and childhood home in the task of becoming ones own individualistic spirit. In case of politics, he may always be reluctant to reject or dismiss those who share political or business links to him.

But the fact is, I believe Bush should either reform the leadership of the agency, or he is bound to face an even greater creedibility downfall which is already staggering beyond much reason.

Speaking of the White House, where's Cheney?

Oh right, NOW he is putting an end to his vacation and cancelling his trip to Alberta, after spending the weekend preparing to buy a new house on the shore of Maryland.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton

"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

Mother Teresa

LeeJ
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91 posted 09-06-2005 09:11 AM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

My purpose for starting this thread was to awaken people to the delayed response time of our government/FEMA, Red Cross and others, before and after Katrina.

What has happened here is a disgrace to our nation…and the most frightening part of this is…if there is (and there will be) another terrorist attack, will Bush wait to get approval from Congress before he makes a decision to get in there with relief for our injured and dying.   Not to mention, for me, it sure does open a can of worms for me, verifying what I had suspected, that we are no safer then we were before 9/11.

Our Commander in Chief & Congress, Federal agencies, plus the leaders of Louisiana, knew Katrina was coming and what her effects would/could be?  

It was said, the President, cut his 28 day vacation short…to get back to Washington and work on relief efforts for Katrina.  Why didn’t he cut his vacation short, knowing full well, that this hurricane might be a disaster and return before hand, to organize The PLAN WE HAVE IN PLACE, of which he speaks of so often & confidently?

When you take the position of President, of the US…you vow to work “for the people”.  It’s his JOB; it’s why he was elected.  If he can’t handle cutting his vacation short, getting back to Washington before a disaster occurs, making certain every detail of his PLAN is in Place, then what are we paying him and his administration for?  

A leader sometimes has to make unpopular decisions…which will always be open for opinion/criticism, but a good leader (s) do not stand around with their thumbs up their butts, waiting for approval to get in there and rescue human life…period.

If the President, could go against the vote of the United Nations, and go to war then I hardly think it appropriate to let him slide on getting the approval from Congress to get in there and help those people.

As far as it being difficult to get in there, you do whatever it takes to get there!

We have helicopters, that could drop boats by the dozens, along with men, amphibians, supplies, make shift Mash tents, buses, standing ready to deploy & bring those people out of that living hell.

There is no excuse for the delay in the rescue of these people which should have been orderly, effective and efficiently deployed immediately after the hurricane.  

Our commander in chief, didn’t even return from his vacation until a day after the hurricane left…of course FEMA was standing there waiting for an ok?  Nothing was ready; everyone was standing around waiting for direction to deploy.   Matter of fact, locals responded quicker then any agency…local police stood their ground, and many rescues were performed by civilians in their boats…why a couple from Northeast US went down there and were assisting people getting off the local helicopters, that were already in there picking people off of their roofs way before Bush even got involved.

It took 4 or 5 days before he deployed that huge white, Navel Medical ship headed for New Orleans, and on Thursday, heard them say it would take an additional 7 days for that ship to get there??? Unacceptable!

Again…A good leader moves and acts and thinks about criticism later….and as far as the head of FEMA, Brownie…well, the man will take the heat for all this and probably loose his job.  Did anyone notice the Presidents angry stares at him, during that first press conference, I mean to tell ya, Bush was pissed, then at the end, said, Brownie, good job?

We’ve become a milk fed nation, unfortunately, and it is beyond me, why, the governor and state legislatures, didn’t demand all those area school buses were not used to take out all poverty stricken people.  Instead, they (those buses) were left behind to float.  

If this is an example of leadership…then I hate to think about what’s going on in the war?

Yes, it was very difficult to get in there b/c of the flooding situation, but when that levy broke, well, they knew it was going to do so, but the Commander in Chief still chose to go on vacation, didn’t he?  And all those officials, stood back and watched and waited for it to happen?

Yanno, there is a lot wrong with this country…we’ve lost something due to political correctness, and that is this…people are afraid to make decision…and I don’t want to hear that this happened b/c of skin color…white or black, this would have still happened…it wasn’t about class or skin color, it was though, indeed about unprepardness, lack of initiative for fear of making decision and having NO PLAN IN PLACE!  

And I’m going to add another point of view…we’ve been thrashed in these United States for many years by hurricanes…yet, they never learn…how many times has Florida been rebuilt?  The cost to taxpayers has been billions & billions of dollars and yet, instead of demanding strict coastal codes for everyone who builds a home along the ocean, they continually build frame houses, that cannot withstand these types of storms, & continually restring above ground wires?  

I’m very sorry to all those who have lost loved ones in this tragedy, who have suffered the fear and degradation of what those people had to endure in the Astro Dome, and I fear & pray, it will not take us to much longer to start learning from history...it’s very important to point fingers and blame in this instance, when many lives could have been lost and could have been saved...
Mysteria
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92 posted 09-06-2005 03:18 PM       View Profile for Mysteria   Email Mysteria   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Mysteria

May I please say that I do agree with those angered, it is important to put the blame where it belongs, and when the time is right a committee will be set up to do just that, I only hope the government does not investigate their own screw up.  I hear the President, Senators, tons of officials complaining, and to be honest I really think an independent investigation is needed for this baby to be truly analyzed properly, and the blame put where it rightfully should go.  It has to be put somewhere for darn sure!

Right now, I think it is really important for every single person that can do something, just gets busy and does it!  If it is only the smallest contribution to help solve this disasterous situation its important, otherwise you can easily become a part of the problem, instead of part of its solution.  

There are still so many lives at stake to be saved.  I admire every single person that has stayed to help those that won't leave for whatever reason they have.  I admire those that lend a smile to those trapped somewhere, and helped make them through that minute or hour of their pain.  The volunteers are incredible in the Gulf Coast, and I highly respect those American people rising to the plate in this disaster.  I see them all having the very same sores on their faces and legs as those victimized and you can help but tear up.

I think the government is well aware they screwed up, as is FEMA, and it will be taken care of when the time is right.  I for one don't think this is the time to worry who the heck made the mistakes, just get in there and fix it!  I can't help but wish that Bill Clinton was still your President, honestly I do, and am so glad he is part of the solution this time anyway.



Carpe diem ~ Horace
Live Like You Were Dying ~ Tim McGraw

[This message has been edited by Mysteria (09-06-2005 04:01 PM).]

Mistletoe Angel
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93 posted 09-06-2005 06:18 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

I personally believe (and believe most will agree with me on this) that the photographs of the victims and their families, the anger, despair and loss in their eyes and faces, explains the seriousness of this issue better than any reporter and press conference out there.

*****

Lee, you are absolutely correct. That's exactly what I believe the main issue is here.

Bush swore an oath on his Inaugural Day. He swore to protect our great nation, as well as our Constitution and liberties which I also believe he has greatly taken for granted.

Remember the election last year? One of the greatest questions of last year's election was who would do a better job keeping this country safe? The Bush campaign did a wonderful job making the Kerry campaign look weak, spending millions and millions in portraying their opposition as soft on terrorism, defense and incapable and unfit of keeping our country safe from terrorism, etc. Now I'm certainly not saying that if we had a different president now that he was guaranteed to do any better, only God knows the answer.

What I'm saying here is that many Americans who voted for Bush November 2nd of last year did so because, frankly, Bush gained their confidence and trust that he would do everything in his power to defend this great nation by all means necessary. Of course I've believed since the war in Iraq began personally that he was doing likewise in that this war would only incite the region and make us less safe, thus never won me over in that he'd do just that, but millions found his leadership long after 9/11 to be solid, strong, dependable, and were counting on what they saw in him during his first term to keep coming in the second term.

Look at how Fox News and them always ask the public to stand up and cheerlead the war in Iraq everytime a school or hospital is built or re-opened. Yet they're still struggling now to do just that right here at home, even when FEMA warned before 9/11 that a hurricane hitting New Orleans is one of three worst theorized disasters on America, even after New Orleans officials simulated what would happen if a hurricane hit the region, even after Witt warned this March that the Department of Homeland Security was spending too much time obsessing over terrorism and very little attention on hurricanes.

You know what Katrina proves? It proves that if our homeland security remains just as it is and there is no great reform, the government is only going to fail us again in the event of another hurricane of this magnitude, another terrorist attack, anything like that.

*****

How can I possibly believe in, hold trust or support this administration after this? Frankly, the government only have themselves to blame for badly damaging our confidence in counting on or relying on whoever is running the White House, perhaps for years to come. In fact, I believe it's a given these politics are going to poison this administration for the rest of Bush's second term.

If Bush wants to become a country music star, that's absolutely fine, I respect that and he should go ahead and follow that dream. But if he's spending time under the ultimate responsibility of working "for the people" strumming his guitar away while New Orleans is drowning, that is utterly irresponsible, selfish, and, frankly, inexcusable beyond all means.

And if all Bush can say in response is that "It's hard work!", perhaps he just shouldn't and doesn't deserve to be our president.

*****

As for the Department of Homeland Security, well, their mission should and simply be to defend this great nation, no matter if you're west or east of the Mississippi, bordering Canada or Mexico, or living along the coast or living in the middle of the country.

How could we trust those like Chertoff to be worthy of filling the highest seats of this department when his excuse to this tragedy and their failure to respond is, "Louisiana is a city that is largely underwater!"

I can't decide if I have heard everything up to this point or not.



Sincerely,
Noah Eaton

"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

Mother Teresa

LeeJ
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since 06-19-2003
Posts 13093
SE PA


94 posted 09-07-2005 07:33 AM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

Noah, yes, indeed, points well taken...but, as corrupt as this nation is, it will take much more then attack any one candidate for President including our present commander in cheif.  As some of you may know, it takes action to make changes...and our purpose, responsibility to our nation, it's people, does not stop upon voting...but making certain these guys do their jobs they've been hired for and stop the bull...lining their pockets with our money...pork barrel spending...etc. Catering only to the whims of political groups who fund their campaigns. If it doesn't stop, well, we take away vital needs of everyone...every decission and action has a direct ripple effect on all of us.  Yanno, I don't care if our leaders wear 700.00 suits, or have some elaborate parties in our Whitehouse, using company plains, helecopters, and the tax payers money for vacations and high end furniture, fashion, etc....costing thousands and thousands of tax payers dollars?...what I care about is getting the job done! Hiring people who are humble and considerate, loyal not to political byoffs by corporations and lobiests, for campaigns...but loyal to the people of this country.  And I'm very tired of political correctness...hypocrates who protect murderes, theives, lobyists, judges who instead of throwing rediculous law suits out of court, paid off by corrupt attorneys spending our tax dollars to get these criminals off the hook?  

This corruption remains deep and alive within the American culture...
and Sharon, you are absolutely right in your comment...I've calmed down some...thanks to you my friend...as I thought about your comment last evening.  Thank you!

I suppose my point in this thread, although very angry about how those people in New Orleans were treated, proved to be a perfect example of the so called PLANS our government and president claim are securly tact.  They're not, and the monies for Homeland Security is being given to locals in each state...for instance...a garbage company asked Homeland Security for money for new trucks, claiming if there is a disaster, they would need garbage trucks to clean up the bodies...and I kid you not...so, money was given to this particular trash collection company, and they purchased all new trucks, and that's just one example????  Adding, this was not about race...this was about, our leaders standing there, full well knowing people were in trouble and didn't know what to do with their positions to get things done.  It's not about one person, but all those leaders starting from the top and working down to state leaders.  They didn't do they're jobs b/c they didn't know how!  So, no matter who would have been living there, it would have happened anyway.  It is not about race, of that I'm certain.  We point blankly didn't have the knowledge, the plan, or the communication to get in there immediately and get things done.  We didn't have a leaders confident enough to say...lets get going and start organizing!

What happened regarding Katrina is over,  but...it should prove a vital example of how we do NOT have ANY PLANS IN PLACE...IF A COUNTRY CANNOT TAKE CARE OF IT'S OWN?  These guys are sitting around with their thumbs in their mouths...not able to perform they're jobs..period.  

We've got so so many projects and problems  here, starting with our infostructure.  Our county is falling apart, stealing from it's own people in price gouging, taking money and robbing Peter to Pay Paul.  The erosion of moral ethics of the people of this country actually believing they deserve to recieve a paycheck when they are incapable of doing they're jobs.  Bad behavior and work ethics are being rewarded, companies are wasting hords of money b/c they can't do they're jobs and spend millions of dollars on consultants to come in and tell them what to do?  

We continue to fail to get people off of dependencies of welfare, drugs, alcohol, our homeless, by instituting educational systems across the board for these people.  We've got the technologies, knowledge and resources to do so...except, everyone thinks they deserve more and more money...our prisons are so full, they allow murderers, rapists and child molesters back on the streets?  And when a government is corrupt, so to will your people be.  We do not have the means of correcting these issues, b/c people have been divided by political parties, and stoop to buying votes to win...so what do we win?  Corruption and the inability to care and rebuild infosttructure, both in resources and people.  

so, I let this rest, and hopefully the hurricane victims will survive, with time, help from us, government assistance, and counseling...

Our country is growing...population explossion due to immigration which isn't controlled.  We've got to stop allowing people to think just because they come over here to live, they don't have to be a working member of society, and give them everything for free.  That builds and stagnates growth and care for being a team member of society...we've got to once again bring work/jobs back into the US...instead of being so gready, that everything is made in other countries.  We've become a very weak nation, both in our military, moral ethics, and individuality...it's not working this way, and if we let it continue, we are in for ruin and threat of more and more terrorists attacks, more brutal then anyone can imagine, b/c the rich get richer and the poor become thrown aside and forgotten.  

Our work has taken up a collection of soap, tooth paste, tooth brushes, hand towels, washcloths, mouth wash, shampoo and cream rinse, deordarents, diapers, baby clothes, and other clothing items, which is going to be trucked down to New Orleans and surrounding areas by one of our companies employee's husband's 18 wheeler.  

Sharon, it brings releaf to my heart, to see all the collections in progress around my area up here in PA...and Philadelphia, as well as, other cities have opened their doors to the homeless, hopefully giving them new homes, apartments, small houses...fully furnished...so as to enable them a new start.  There are so so many of those people who want to relocate and work...

Also, another purpose for this thread, was to enlighten folks to demand, that severe codes be enforced, when building a home along a coastal areas.  

If we're going to rebuild these cities, spending our tax dollars, after they've been demolished by hurricans, then we'd better come up with a plan, to ensure better structures and utility operations to withstand hurricans.  

On the islands, they build they're homes with concrete cinder blocks and they are beautiful...one home I visited, survived hurricane Floyde...with the exception of it's roof, the rest of the home was still standing with only salt water damage.  

It was build by an American, who used round stones from the property and concrete, and was located 150 to 200 feet from the ocean.  So I ask you, what better proof?  If and when a hurricane hits, at least the homes and communication wires might withstand powerful storms with minimal damages...no more coastal frame homes...and start installing underground wires instead of telephone poles and rebuilding something that isn't working?  It's ludicris to do so, isn't it?

Just think of the long run effects, and not immediate gratifications...meaning, if we build houses this way, then in the long run, the ripple effect will be to our advantage, meaning less damages, less monies insurance companies would have to pay, which should ensure, in the long run, a better cost effective relief, all the way around...
good things are happening now...and it will indeed take years to recover...as it did 9/11...but, for once in our lives, can we please learn from history?  I hope so, I pray so.  

Many thanks to all of you for bearing with me, for reading and for allowing my foolish rant...I'll shut up now

thanks be to Ron for this forum and to all of you for your patience, kindness and for allowing an old fool to add her input.  
  

[This message has been edited by LeeJ (09-07-2005 08:30 AM).]

Huan Yi
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since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


95 posted 09-07-2005 11:24 AM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

“New Orleans Mayor: Leave or We'll Drag You Out”


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,168644,00.html


“The more recent evacuation move — which supersedes an earlier, milder order to evacuate made before Hurricane Katrina crashed ashore Aug. 29 — comes after rescuers scouring New Orleans found hundreds of people willing to defy repeated urgings to get out.

Dennis Rizzuto, 38, said he had plenty of water, food to last a month and a generator powering his home. He and his family were offered a boat ride to safety, but he declined.

"They're going to have to drag me," Rizzuto said.”

The number even now is estimated at 10,000.
And I can see the lawyers lining up.

LeeJ
Member Patricius
since 06-19-2003
Posts 13093
SE PA


96 posted 09-07-2005 11:33 AM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

someone is going to get hurt as a result of this...and I don't mean, out of office, this is going to serioulsy get someone killed, I fear.

LeeJ
Member Patricius
since 06-19-2003
Posts 13093
SE PA


97 posted 09-08-2005 06:54 AM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

well, so far, so good, been listening up and the outpoor of donations in all kinds of ways have been extremely forthgiving.  And Mysteria, you were right, one should consentrate on the all the good that is coming out of this....and I certainly do understand why people must be forced out of their homes, heard on the news this morning that the water being pumped out, is so toxic, if you touch it, it will make you sick.  But...I have a new concern...all that awful water being pumped out into the lake?  What will it do to the lake's ecology, not to mention, the water table.  Where I used to live in the Poconos, I was on the board of directors in charge of the lake in our community. In doing a lot of research, had the opportunity to learn from a biologist, that we at this point in time, have no way of knowing, how long chemicals stay in the ground...kind of a scary thought.  Now I know there is nothing else can be done, other then to pump that water into containment trucks and have it cleaned before dumping it, which would be an astronomical cost, not to mention, probably take much much longer to accomplish.  

Anyway, thanks to all of you for chimming in on this thread, the rant helped and so has Sharon....hugs to you all.

Mistletoe Angel
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City of Roses


98 posted 09-08-2005 12:57 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

That mandatory evacuation Nagin is calling for is just wrong to me.

From what I've heard, most of the approximately ten-thousand who are still in the city are elderly citizens, who feel most attached to their house, their properties, their memories.

Look, I think it is pretty stupid personally to want to stay there when there is so much disease in the water, snipers and other crime happening in the city, and a lack of functioning services everywhere. Add to that if that you're raising a family right now in New Orleans at this time, you're putting your children at enormous risk, especially health-wise. But Nagin should understand that here in America, you have a choice, and their right to stay should be respected, as idiotic as it may be.

And, yes, Lee is absolutely correct that quite a few can get killed in this process.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton


"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

Mother Teresa
Mistletoe Angel
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since 12-17-2000
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City of Roses


99 posted 09-08-2005 01:03 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

(hugs) Oh, Lee, yes, being one who has took the environment to heart immensely, it can be so tough to look at all the dark waters and not have your eyes tear up.

Here are some articles that do a great job explaining the environmental impact down there:

(From CBC)
http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2005/09/06/floodwater_environment_200509006.html

(From Reuters)
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/health_dc;_ylt=AoMjw9IOjNg_gG8fCFra4Gms0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA2Z2szazkxBHNlYwN0bQ--

(From Christian Science Monitor)
http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0908/p01s01-usgn.html

(From NPR)
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4836440

***

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton

"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

Mother Teresa

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