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Passions in Poetry

Katrina

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Brad
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50 posted 09-03-2005 08:09 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

quote:
Actually, President Bush clarified his disappointment to the response.  It wasn't towards the rescue and relief efforts, but towards the breakdown of law and order, especially in greater New Orleans.


Ali, can you get me a link to that clarification? Okay, I haven't looked for it yet, I guess I'm asking for an Alihandout instead of a government handout.
Alicat
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51 posted 09-03-2005 08:18 PM       View Profile for Alicat   Email Alicat   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alicat

In response to post 47 from Brad, yes they were serious.  Having been raised during a very active hurricane season in coastal Texas, that was the warning to flooded residents of battered homes.  Why you might ask?  Structural integrity; airborne diseases; disease carrying rodents and mosquitos; rabid animals; raw sewage; oil and fuel slicks from submerged vehicles; waterborne bacteria, virii, ameobas and other pathogens; poisonous snakes and floating fire ant colonies; and the very real risk of going back inside, and getting trapped by floating or submerged debris with noone close by to hear the calls for help.  Not to mention very fast currents and the possibility of fire from ruptured gas mains.

Link?  Sure thing.

quote:
Before leaving for his trip Friday morning, Bush seemed to switch tacks by acknowledging the results of his administration's response were "not acceptable." But in Biloxi, he sought to clarify his statement, saying "the results are acceptable here in Mississippi and ... acceptable in New Orleans when it comes to the hard work of the Coast Guard."

He continued: "This is a huge task that we're dealing with. Our job as people in positions of responsibility is not to be satisfied until the job is done as much as it can be done. ... I am satisfied with the response but I'm not satisfied with all the results."


Foxnews Source, dated 09/03/05

I listened to President Bush on Foxnews while he was surveying the damage, and am having some difficulty as well as finding his reference to the lawlessness.  I know I did hear it though, just can't seem to find a full transcript.
Brad
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52 posted 09-03-2005 08:26 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Sorry, Ali, my bad.

I should have made myself clearer.

My point was that it is now, at least here, Sept. 4.

My point was that the government seriously misunderestimated what was going on.

My point is that there is no excuse for doing so.

Alicat
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53 posted 09-03-2005 08:31 PM       View Profile for Alicat   Email Alicat   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alicat

Is ok, Brad, and I found the link you were wanting for clarification.  And yes, the government on ALL levels underestimated the impact.  A good chunk of people in the Gulf States underestimated the impact.  Everyong underestimated the impact, as the impact of Katrina is mind boggling.  Did you know that the remnants of Katrina, after it was downgraded to a TD, kept rotating through the Gulf Stream and into Canada?  Granted, the rotation was very slow, but that sucker was still spinning.
Huan Yi
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54 posted 09-03-2005 11:29 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

I’m reminded of my reading of the fall of France in 1940.
How the Germans encouraged in their plans masses
of refugees which were to hamper if not obstruct the
efforts of the Allied professional armies in their maneuvers
to meet and defend against the Nazi invasion.  The Allies
had failed to take into account the impact of so many
who were not part of any coordinated effort except
as obstacles to an efficient response to the crisis.  
There was a response in New Orleans by a local
official to the effect that they were unprepared
in dealing with people they did not know exist.
Whether he was speaking to the number of those
who ignored the evacuation orders, or the existence
of a particular group, I’m uncertain.

Huan Yi
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55 posted 09-04-2005 09:34 AM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4212684.stm


“A number of UK survivors were critical of the British embassy.”
LoveBug
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56 posted 09-04-2005 10:29 AM       View Profile for LoveBug   Email LoveBug   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LoveBug

"If you see a man lying on the street on a TV screen while listening to a government official saying 'everything's fine', when is it time to get angry?"

AMEN!

Listen, this IS AMERICA! People shouldn't be living that way here. We knew htis was coming, this wasn't news to us. Why weren't we ready? Why didn't our government manage to get down there sooner? Why did the NBC man manage to get down there before FEMA? These are serious questions, and you making up rhetorical crap isn't going to change this. I'm doing what I can to help, I'm broke myself but I'm doing what I can, ok? I j ust gave blood yesterday and I'm donating clothes to the Salvation army. If I WAS a government offical, I'd have the RESOURCES to do more.

They should have done more. They should have done it faster. None of you who are blasting me dwell on the fact that PEOPLE DIED because the government was so slow. This is AMERICA, not Iran. If we don't stand up, outraged, it will just happen again.

Love's a lovely lad
His bringing up is beauty
Who loves him not is mad
For I must pay him duty
-Anonymous

Huan Yi
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57 posted 09-04-2005 11:33 AM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi


Or because people wouldn’t listen.
You are told the ship in a storm is in danger of sinking.
Avenues and resources are provided for you to safely leave.
You are asked, told, “begged” to do so.
And what happens is others are condemned for not being quick enough
to save you from harm off the stern of the ship, (the ship you chose to stay on),
as it’s going down.

There’s only so much others can do
for those unwilling to do for themselves.

LoveBug
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58 posted 09-04-2005 02:28 PM       View Profile for LoveBug   Email LoveBug   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LoveBug

You definently have a point about that, but even if all the people left who coul dhave, people would still be there. The area is very poor, and many people can't afford to leave.

I definently agree that the people who could have left, and didn't, are basically stupid, but I don't think the government should let them starve..

Love's a lovely lad
His bringing up is beauty
Who loves him not is mad
For I must pay him duty
-Anonymous

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59 posted 09-04-2005 04:16 PM       View Profile for Poet deVine   Email Poet deVine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Poet deVine

The reporters got there before FEMA because they were already in the area.

And now they have to persuade (literally almost threaten people) to come out of their homes and get to a safe place. You can't tie them up and drag them out...dropping food and water every few days...if they don't see the danger then they should not be crying about what the government isn't doing...
Brad
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60 posted 09-04-2005 06:58 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Who are 'they'?

Yes, people are a pain in the ass.

I'm not sure what the point is though.

Except, perhaps, that those defending the troops on the ground by blaming the victim and those criticizing the government response are talking past each other.

None of the points concerning stupidity make the government response any less reprehensible.

Brad
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61 posted 09-04-2005 07:11 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001052870

quote:
Yet where is the National Guard, why hasn't every able-bodied member of the armed forces in South Mississippi been pressed into service?

On Wednesday reporters listening to horrific stories of death and survival at the Biloxi Junior High School shelter looked north across Irish Hill Road and saw Air Force personnel playing basketball and performing calisthenics.

Playing basketball and performing calisthenics!

When asked why these young men were not being used to help in the recovery effort, our reporters were told that it would be pointless to send military personnel down to the beach to pick up debris.

Litter is the least of our problems. We need the president to back up his declaration of a disaster with a declaration of every man and woman under his command will do whatever is necessary to deal with that disaster.


This is not the fault of the soldiers.

LoveBug
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62 posted 09-04-2005 07:45 PM       View Profile for LoveBug   Email LoveBug   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LoveBug

Disturbing, Brad, but no more disturbing than the crap I've seen/heard the last few days.. and the most disturbing is that people get onto ME for being angry about it.

Unbelievable..

Love's a lovely lad
His bringing up is beauty
Who loves him not is mad
For I must pay him duty
-Anonymous

Brad
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63 posted 09-04-2005 08:51 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Perhaps, some of you saw this?


http://movies.crooksandliars.com/Meet-the-Press-Broussard.mov
Alicat
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since 05-23-99
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Coastal Texas


64 posted 09-04-2005 09:07 PM       View Profile for Alicat   Email Alicat   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alicat

Emergency Prepardness, New Orleans

Caution, that page is very long, but contains all the Emergency Prepardness orders and proceedures for New Orleans, and was created long before Katrina was even chosen for a name.  It is abundantly clear from reading this that the local and state governments in Louisiana failed in their obligations to their citizens prior to and immediately after Katrina hit New Orleans.  They waited until the day before LA landfall to issue emergency orders, when they had several days prior, the same timeframe in which President Bush declared the Gulf States state of emergency and urged Governor Blanco to evacuate everyone.  And they had the use of school buses, but the only one used was one commandeered by a citizen, who then used it to rescue 70 people and took them to Houston, which he found out about on the bus radio.  Plaquemines Parish, just south of NO, used school buses and evacuated everyone.
Midnitesun
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65 posted 09-04-2005 09:38 PM       View Profile for Midnitesun   Email Midnitesun   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Midnitesun

from an article in the Guardian:

quote:
So what went wrong with the relief effort? Why, so many days after Katrina struck, is there still such chaos, despite the fact that there was ample warning of what might befall the Gulf coast?

The Federal Emergency Management Agency (Fema) has been accused of being so concerned about the possibility of a terrorist attack that it failed to prepare properly for a much more inevitable natural disaster.

After the authorities in Baton Rouge had prepared a field hospital for victims of the storm, Fema sent its first batch of supplies, all of which were designed for use against chemical attack, including drugs such as Cipro, which is designed for use against anthrax. "We called them up and asked them: 'Why did you send that, and they said that's what it says in the book'," said a Baton Rouge official.

Another possible cause for the chaos was that traditionally there have been so many warnings in the hurricane period that many residents in affected areas often shrug them off. For this reason, many may have not left the area.

Local officials also seem to have grossly underestimated the needs of those who did not own cars. Louisiana governor Kathleen Blanco yesterday defended the state's actions saying they had requisitioned many school buses to evacuate those without cars. Residents, however, complained that many of them were left stranded, unaware of any such service.

"Yeah, they told us we needed to evacuate, but really that was for the rich people," Curtis Vaughn, 48, told the Chicago Tribune. "A lot of these people live paycheck to paycheck and couldn't afford even one night away from home."
LoveBug
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66 posted 09-04-2005 10:44 PM       View Profile for LoveBug   Email LoveBug   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LoveBug

Editorial response to FEMA and Mr. Bush by The Times-Picayune.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/04/times.picayune.editorial/index.html

"Despite the city's multiple points of entry, our nation's bureaucrats spent days after last week's hurricane wringing their hands, lamenting the fact that they could neither rescue the city's stranded victims nor bring them food, water and medical supplies...Yet, the people trained to protect our nation, the people whose job it is to quickly bring in aid were absent. Those who should have been deploying troops were singing a sad song about how our city was impossible to reach."

Love's a lovely lad
His bringing up is beauty
Who loves him not is mad
For I must pay him duty
-Anonymous
Alicat
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67 posted 09-04-2005 11:18 PM       View Profile for Alicat   Email Alicat   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alicat

Guess they didn't know about New Orlean's Emergency Prepardness which I posted a bit earlier.  The anonymous author of that open letter naturally went after President Bush instead of his/her/its own Governor, state legislators, state representatives, and local authorities.  Where's the Chief of Police?  Where's most the police?  What did the Mayor do aside from rant?  Why was the school bus depot full of school buses?
Brad
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68 posted 09-04-2005 11:27 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

How do mistakes made at the local level absolve the feds?
Huan Yi
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69 posted 09-04-2005 11:37 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

The mayor is a real cookie.


The feds can’t be expected to make everything okay
immediately and regardless.  They would have to be
constantly hovering over us just to know what was going on
and no one would be happy with that.
Alicat
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70 posted 09-04-2005 11:47 PM       View Profile for Alicat   Email Alicat   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alicat

Well, let's review.  The federal government cannot just declare martial law.  Only Congress has that authority on the federal level.  President Bush asked Governor Blanco for permission to put New Orleans under emergency federal jurisdiction, which Governors can do.  Request denied.  President Bush did what he could within the confines of the law.  The federal government is barred from just jumping into state responsibilities without the express permission of that state.  State Rights vs Federal Rights.  State governments are responsible for activating and deploying their Army National Guard units and can request augmentation from other states as outlined in the governor commission rules (I forget what the meeting of all governors is called).  Coast Guard is semi-automimous, being both military and police, but everything else has to be requested by that state.  This includes Navy, Air Force, Marines, Army, and their reserve components.  The military just can't swoop in under federal auspices without explicit consent by the state.  That is banned in accordance with federal and military law and regulations.

Keep in mind that though things were staged by FEMA and emergency response units, some of those staged items were damaged by Katrina, then roads had to be cleared, and some things straight up had to be brought in by boat or airlifted due to damaged bridges, destroyed roads, and extensive flooding.

Yes, there were some screwups on the federal side of things.  There were a magnitude of screwups on the state level.  Who's more culpable/incompetent?

Didn't we already discuss the issue of State vs Federal 140 year ago?

[This message has been edited by Alicat (09-05-2005 12:01 AM).]

Brad
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71 posted 09-05-2005 12:06 AM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

quote:
:  Sir, they were told like me, every single day, "The cavalry's coming," on a federal level, "The cavalry's coming, the cavalry's coming, the cavalry's coming."  I have just begun to hear the hoofs of the cavalry.  The cavalry's still not here yet, but I've begun to hear the hoofs, and we're almost a week out.

Let me give you just three quick examples.  We had Wal-Mart deliver three trucks of water, trailer trucks of water.  FEMA turned them back.  They said we didn't need them.  This was a week ago.  FEMA--we had 1,000 gallons of diesel fuel on a Coast Guard vessel docked in my parish.  The Coast Guard said, "Come get the fuel right away."  When we got there with our trucks, they got a word.  "FEMA says don't give you the fuel."  Yesterday--yesterday--FEMA comes in and cuts all of our emergency communication lines.  They cut them without notice.  Our sheriff, Harry Lee, goes back in, he reconnects the line. He posts armed guards on our line and says, "No one is getting near these lines."  Sheriff Harry Lee said that if America--American government would have responded like Wal-Mart has responded, we wouldn't be in this crisis.

Alicat
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72 posted 09-05-2005 12:11 AM       View Profile for Alicat   Email Alicat   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alicat

I sure wouldn't mind validation of that story, and not from the AP if you don't mind.  They've printed too many erroneous stories already, most caught and corrected by the notorious FoxNews.
LoveBug
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73 posted 09-05-2005 01:00 AM       View Profile for LoveBug   Email LoveBug   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LoveBug

I always knew that Wal-Mart would save the world
Huan Yi
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74 posted 09-05-2005 01:44 AM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

“But the BBC's Richard Greene says he met several people who were determined to stay behind.”


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4214232.stm


Even now.
So what do you do?
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