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Passions in Poetry

Katrina

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Brad
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Jejudo, South Korea


25 posted 09-02-2005 08:35 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

quote:
and we're going to see an increasing tendency to politicize this catastrophe.  Zeus knows the Bush administration politicized 9/11 every chance it got...


Increasing tendency?

Lovebug is right, it is disgusting to compare as one person I read said that those who were stranded in New Orleans should be happy to be getting anything at all. If they had lived in Bangladesh, he said, . . . .

Bangladesh?

Look, if you want to focus on the good people can do, great.  But let's not pretend that they arguments haven't already been stated, the battle lines drawn, and that this has already become partisan.

4 words:

The decimation of FEMA.

Sorry, I lived through the Northridge quake and remember being in awe of the speed and efficiency of that organization in its heyday.

[This message has been edited by Brad (09-03-2005 04:16 AM).]

Local Rebel
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Southern Abstentia


26 posted 09-02-2005 09:10 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

Everything a politician does is political.

But can we simply be human beings for a while? .. just because somebody draws a fist doesn't mean they have to punch.  

You know me... I have plenty to say.  Later.
Midnitesun
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27 posted 09-02-2005 09:52 PM       View Profile for Midnitesun   Email Midnitesun   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Midnitesun

Brad? I was there for the Northridge quake, and yes, FEMA was there within hours.
The current failure of FEMA and major disaster relief groups to effectively work together reminds me of what happened before/during/after Sept 11 with our so-called intelligence agencies.

Here in Oregon, the Northwest Medical Team was ready to roll Monday, fully prepared to assist, ready to go to New Orleans or Biloxi, but were told by FEMA...DO NOT GO until WE tell you to. They finally got the 'OK' today to leave and head for New Orleans.

Since when is it OK to wait so long to deploy emergency services? What idiot is making these decisions? Someone's head will roll, I just hope it isn't some poor overworked sucker who's just a pawn in someone's sick political hierarchy game.
LoveBug
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28 posted 09-03-2005 12:33 AM       View Profile for LoveBug   Email LoveBug   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LoveBug

Wow, the first time Brad and I agree

I'm all for positive vibes and all, but there's a point that it's just too much. Mysteria, if you think anything about this process is going well, you are just deluding yourself. This is a disaster.. the disaster didn't occur when the hurricane hit, it occured when those poor people were abandoned. Even our president agrees that the response has been unacceptable. Kudos to him for saying that.

The people at the convention center were TOLD to go there to wait. What does FEMA say? (Another quote from CNN)--Oh, we didn't know they were there until Thursday.

Well! It was on the news Wednesday.

Utter bull.

People died because these people slacked off.  

Love's a lovely lad
His bringing up is beauty
Who loves him not is mad
For I must pay him duty
-Anonymous
Huan Yi
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Waukegan


29 posted 09-03-2005 01:54 AM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi


" Marge, don't discourage the boy! Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's
what separates us from the animals! Except the weasel."

Homer Simpson
Poet deVine
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Hurricane Alley


30 posted 09-03-2005 09:31 AM       View Profile for Poet deVine   Email Poet deVine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Poet deVine

http://hosted.ap.org/specials/neworleanssatellite/index.html
An interesting look from the sky.
Mysteria
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31 posted 09-03-2005 11:25 AM       View Profile for Mysteria   Email Mysteria   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Mysteria

Great link Sharon
Huan Yi
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32 posted 09-03-2005 11:46 AM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi


"Tourists and hotel managers alike condemned government officials for ignoring them.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,168270,00.html

Tourists?

I remember a few years ago, the media showing people playing
in the surf though they had been  told repeatedly the storm was but a
short hour or two away.

Its like a bad horror movie.  As you watch it, you think to yourself:
in fact that monster would starve because with all the warning signs
to be seen no one is going into that cave, and yet they do.

Simple question:  to what extent are the people who discounted
or ignored all warnings, (as one female official remarked on
NPR:  We begged them to leave.), responsible?


LoveBug
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33 posted 09-03-2005 12:48 PM       View Profile for LoveBug   Email LoveBug   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LoveBug

Well, some people were actually unable to leave. I pity those people. But those who could have left, but didn't? Well... yeah, they carry lots of blame. I mean, it was a manditory evacuation, so they're basically breaking the law.. not to mention doing something incredably stupid. Yes, stupid. Not that they deserve the treatment they are getting now, but still..

Love's a lovely lad
His bringing up is beauty
Who loves him not is mad
For I must pay him duty
-Anonymous
Alicat
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34 posted 09-03-2005 01:03 PM       View Profile for Alicat   Email Alicat   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alicat

Not to denigrate those able-bodied who stayed, but why on earth didn't they just walk?  They had time to procure cash, food, water, clothing, hygeine needs, and personal documents, bundle it all up in water resistant containers, and trek on out before the rains actually started.  So I have to wonder why those able-bodied souls didn't do that, even with the warning of emminant danger?  Surely they could've covered at least 20-40 miles a day.  Were they so indoctrinated in the liberalistic governmental handouts owed to them, by the NAACP, CBC and liberal interest groups, that they chose instead to park their butts and wait for those governmental handouts?  And then get all bent out of shape when the handouts weren't given to them in their personal timeframe?  Where's the personal responsibility?  Surely they had some provisions at their own residence.  Surely they had some cash.  Surely they had multiple pairs of socks and changes of clothing.
Tracey
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where insanity meets breeding


35 posted 09-03-2005 01:05 PM       View Profile for Tracey   Email Tracey   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Tracey

Regarding the tourists, I read something about one tourist that wanted to leave Saturday night but he couldn't get a flight because they'd all been cancelled. Also couldn't get a rental car because they were all gone. I guess people in that predicament had no choice.

On the other hand, I also heard of a report of 2 young girls (from Canada I'm ashamed to say...trust me, we ain't all this stupid), who had heard of the warnings but still flew down!!!

You can never win or lose
If you don't
Run the race

Psychedelic Furs - Love My Way

Alicat
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36 posted 09-03-2005 01:09 PM       View Profile for Alicat   Email Alicat   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alicat

Some of the tourists seen in the lines at the Superdome prior to the first rains were British and Australians in their young 20's, replete with large backpacks.  Guess they weren't too keen on backpacking their way out of town.
Christopher
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37 posted 09-03-2005 03:10 PM       View Profile for Christopher   Email Christopher   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Christopher

it always amazes me at how easy it is to sit on the sidelines and condemn those working in the trenches.

LoveBug
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38 posted 09-03-2005 04:32 PM       View Profile for LoveBug   Email LoveBug   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LoveBug

Chris.. I mean, how could you say that? Don't you see the proof everywhere that these people screwed up? It's not just me, it's all over the news, even the president says that what is happening is horrible. Its scary how delusional some people can be..

Ali.. "they chose instead to park their butts and wait for those governmental handouts?"

So many people spend most of their lives living off of government handouts, why would this case be different? :P

Love's a lovely lad
His bringing up is beauty
Who loves him not is mad
For I must pay him duty
-Anonymous

Huan Yi
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Waukegan


39 posted 09-03-2005 04:59 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi


Does anyone believe that any politician
would have knowingly denied  any,
(it would certainly have been small by comparison),
part of that effort currently being made to assist people,
otherwise incapable,  wanting evacuation
before the hurricane struck?

Midnitesun
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40 posted 09-03-2005 05:29 PM       View Profile for Midnitesun   Email Midnitesun   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Midnitesun

Thoussands of people had no resources or way to leave, and were told they'd be safe in the superdome, and expected they'd be safe  at that convention center
It's a fiasco, obviously, and I think everyone, including the government...got caught with their proverbial pants down and left in shock. Shock and dismay, bewilderment...these things slow us all down. The reaction time to this disaster proves to me that in a major disaster, you are on your own for maybe a week. I've heard that prediction hundreds of times, and have found it to be true. A few years back i was caught in 'the blizzard of the century' and it shut down DENVER for nearly a week, in spite of plow trucks being the norm for a winter city, we were all stuck when the snow fell nonstop for over 24 hours, and the city streets were buried underneath three feet of snow.
I don't believe anyone really expected this kind of devastation, and it took a while for emergency response teams to gear up. Still, since it was forecast this was to be a category 4 or more? why wasn't a better response plan already in place BEFORE the event? We need to look closely at FEMA and all of our Emer agencies, to see where we can improve before the next disaster.
But please, stop blaming the people who are already victims, and those who are caught trying to help with not much more than a bandaid in their hand when it's major surgery that is needed.
As for the government...apologies accepted, you know you screwed up.
But WE the people, are the government.
Christopher
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41 posted 09-03-2005 05:29 PM       View Profile for Christopher   Email Christopher   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Christopher

quote:
So many people spend most of their lives living off of government handouts, why would this case be different?
So the government screwed up by not responding quickly enough to give these people their handouts?

I'm not saying that they couldn't do a better job than they are. I am saying that it's really easy to call them weak and futile when you're sitting in your home on your computer and not making the decisions.

It's certainly your right to criticize our government and their actions, however. I would just remember that this catastrophe is worse than any for a very long time in its overall scope and it's quite likely that some people haven't been able to meet the challenge of it yet. You've felt overwhelmed before, I'm sure... and I'm postive there's more than one person who's NOT sitting in their home on their computer, who's trying to help these people, who is feeling overwhelmed as well.

Finally - it irritates the hell out of me when people criticize in the time of crisis. Us focusing on those "politicizing" the situation are doing the same exact thing - turning it into a matter of politics instead of crisis. Focus on the crisis at hand and what can be done to alleviate it. When it's over and people are safe, then criticize.

My 2 cents.
Alicat
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42 posted 09-03-2005 06:02 PM       View Profile for Alicat   Email Alicat   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alicat

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05242/562353.stm

Link is for those who strongly believe the Feds sat on their hands with thumbs pointed upwards until 4 days after Katrina passed.
LoveBug
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43 posted 09-03-2005 07:02 PM       View Profile for LoveBug   Email LoveBug   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LoveBug

"it irritates the hell out of me when people criticize in the time of crisis"

Well, it irritates the hell out of ME that people get mad that we point out the absolute disaster that this resonse was. Everybody believes this, even the PRESIDENT, so I don't see how you can say that I'm wrong for thinking this way.


Love's a lovely lad
His bringing up is beauty
Who loves him not is mad
For I must pay him duty
-Anonymous
Alicat
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44 posted 09-03-2005 07:45 PM       View Profile for Alicat   Email Alicat   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alicat

Actually, President Bush clarified his disappointment to the response.  It wasn't towards the rescue and relief efforts, but towards the breakdown of law and order, especially in greater New Orleans.
Christopher
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45 posted 09-03-2005 07:51 PM       View Profile for Christopher   Email Christopher   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Christopher

if you see a man lying in the street, bleeding profusely from a stab wound, are you going to stand there and yell about how terrible it is that the ambulance hasn't got there yet, or are you going to soothe him and do your best to stem the flow of blood until the ambulance arrives?

How comforting do you think it would be for him, while he's lying there dying, to hear you berate the hospital for its slow response in sending out the ambulance?

Much more comfort for him, I believe, are solidarity and words of comfort instead of useless prattling statements stemming from anger. It's understandable and perfectly right to be upset, even angry... but there are times when it's far better to swallow that until the time is right for it. That time is not now.
Midnitesun
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46 posted 09-03-2005 07:53 PM       View Profile for Midnitesun   Email Midnitesun   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Midnitesun

At the risk of seeming rude, and I willingly take that risk...this Q is posed to all who read/reply here in this thread or others:

What did YOU personally do during the first 48 hours after seeing/hearing of the devastation? Did you jump into action? I am not saying you had to...just that, if you didn't do anything and you saw a need, how can you sit around and blast those who took more than two days to respond? Most of us can accept some level of blame for the slowness of aid to these people. For whatever reasons...be it personal problems, financial problems, we were delayed by shock,  or always expecting the government to be there first?
After this crisis settles down..and I expect that to be several weeks if not months, then we all need to reassess our personal as well as governmental emergency preparedness plans. Clearly, it isn't reasonable for anyone to expect that 'outside' help can arrive immediately, or maybe even in a timely manner, no matter how great the need.
Brad
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Jejudo, South Korea


47 posted 09-03-2005 07:55 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

From Ali's link -- supposedly dated August 30:

quote:
Officials today said it could be a week or more before many of the evacuees are allowed back. They warned people against trying to return to their homes while the rescue and recovery are still going on.


Are you serious?

Brad
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Jejudo, South Korea


48 posted 09-03-2005 07:59 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

quote:
Not to denigrate those able-bodied who stayed, but why on earth didn't they just walk?  They had time to procure cash, food, water, clothing, hygeine needs, and personal documents, bundle it all up in water resistant containers, and trek on out before the rains actually started.  So I have to wonder why those able-bodied souls didn't do that, even with the warning of emminant danger?  Surely they could've covered at least 20-40 miles a day.  Were they so indoctrinated in the liberalistic governmental handouts owed to them, by the NAACP, CBC and liberal interest groups, that they chose instead to park their butts and wait for those governmental handouts?  And then get all bent out of shape when the handouts weren't given to them in their personal timeframe?  Where's the personal responsibility?  Surely they had some provisions at their own residence.  Surely they had some cash.  Surely they had multiple pairs of socks and changes of clothing.


Why not apply the same amount of common sense to the government who has far more information than these people had?


Brad
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since 08-20-99
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Jejudo, South Korea


49 posted 09-03-2005 08:05 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

quote:
if you see a man lying in the street, bleeding profusely from a stab wound, are you going to stand there and yell about how terrible it is that the ambulance hasn't got there yet, or are you going to soothe him and do your best to stem the flow of blood until the ambulance arrives?

How comforting do you think it would be for him, while he's lying there dying, to hear you berate the hospital for its slow response in sending out the ambulance?

Much more comfort for him, I believe, are solidarity and words of comfort instead of useless prattling statements stemming from anger. It's understandable and perfectly right to be upset, even angry... but there are times when it's far better to swallow that until the time is right for it. That time is not now.


If you see a man lying on the street on a TV screen while listening to a government official saying 'everything's fine', when is it time to get angry?
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