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Passions in Poetry

I have but one to give to my country

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wranx
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0 posted 07-04-2005 11:42 PM       View Profile for wranx   Email wranx   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for wranx

I'm dumbfounded by the recent Supreme Court finding on the 5th Ammendment


No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Private property taken for public use. Yes, Eminent domain is a legitimate government power and it has its place for highway contruction and public facilities such as schools and water supplies. But, I wonder what source material did five judges draw upon to determine it is Constitutional for the government act as "muscle" for the "developers" who are coveting your land.


Just when I thought it sucked that I don't own any waterfront or other desirable property, the Supreme Court reminded me that what I don't own, can't be taken away.

In a narrow decision, the Court has determined that (y)our Municipal, County, State or Federal Government may take a private citizen's real property (exercising Eminent Domain) and sell it to a private, profit-making concern for no better reason than increasing the tax base.

It would seem now, that no one can truly say they own anything. Only that they are acting as steward until such time as the government (or a "friend" of government) decides they can make money from it.

I find it astounding that the assenting judges couldn't take this decision the next small step forward and imagine the many, many abuses of this power that will happen.
What "Fair market value" do you assign to, "We don't want to leave our homes and businesses because you think the City needs another strip center?"

Oh! and since the Supreme Court has determined the display of the Decalogue on public property is constitutionally ok in certain circumstances....Maybe they should have required this one to be stricken.

Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

Fortunately, not possessing a house, wife, servant, ox, or much of anything else, I am in danger of having the government condemning only...

my ass


Local Rebel
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1 posted 07-05-2005 12:10 AM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

George Bush made the comment the other day that it's 'his job to keep this economy growing'.

Absolutly incredulous I was at this 'conservative' viewpoint -- combined with this type of decision from the Court, recent actions by the Congress -- it appears the confluence of corporatism and conservatism has left conservatism a little cold.

serenity blaze
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2 posted 07-05-2005 02:58 AM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

I sure hope I don't have to make clothes outta my curtains.

smile...

Bush...emminent domain...my ass?



It could get bad, folks.

(get bad?)

*wince*

As if it ain't already worse.

I would/will vote for Al Franken in the next presidential election.

Unless of course, mayor-elect yeti runs, or perhaps the write-in candidate of a Local Reb?
littlewing
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3 posted 07-05-2005 03:25 AM       View Profile for littlewing   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for littlewing

At a 4th of July baseball game when they announced the greatest Americans of all time, Oprah made it up on the screen
(not kidding, that got a laugh from the crowd) and Bush did not.  

It would have started a riot if he had.  
wranx
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4 posted 07-05-2005 06:01 AM       View Profile for wranx   Email wranx   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for wranx

I never really considered the presidency entering into this decision. Only that the High Court may indeed be "high".

Or corrupt, or effete,

Or so out of touch with Human nature they actually can't forsee how this finding will abet greed.

BTW, I've not talked to anyone...Democrat, Republican, conservative or liberal who isn't appalled by this. But then I don't talk to many developers and can't abide politicians.
Local Rebel
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5 posted 07-05-2005 06:42 AM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

Well Ed, Presidents appoint the judges and are ideologically driven... what ideology has dominated the White House for the last 40 years?  Seven of the Nine are Republican, supposedly conservative (ie limited government) appointed.  

What exactly is the ideology of the compassionate conservative president -- who sees his 'job' as commander-in-cheif of the economy, who views limited government as the largest deficits in history?  I get the compassionate part -- if you want to get spending under control you start by gauranteeing cuts to Social Security now so that future possible benefit cuts 30 years out don't have to be made.  

This thread is very much about Presidents.  
Balladeer
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6 posted 07-05-2005 07:31 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

I agree with you, wholehartedly, ed, on both counts. The decisions were incredible that defy belief and, although the fingers love to point at Bush, he doen't figure into it.

Wouldn't surprise me that O'conner's decision to retire was based on that decision.
Tim
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7 posted 07-05-2005 08:18 AM       View Profile for Tim   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Tim

Being somewhat of a dummy on these here judicial/political issues, but wasn't the conservative block of Rehnquist, Scalia, and Thomas the dissenting side along with the moderate O'Connor?
Wasn't it the liberal wing- Stevens, Souter, Ginsburg and Breyer who were the majority?
Looks like big government and we are here to help you won out over the evils of the conservative right.
Sunshine
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8 posted 07-05-2005 09:01 AM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine

I am sure you have all seen this article?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uslatest/story/0,1282,-5106999,00.html

A case of what goes around, bites you?
serenity blaze
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9 posted 07-05-2005 09:16 AM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

I've got it.

Al Franken's slogan:

"Good Lookin' Curtains Make FUGLY Clothes."

*gulp*

dive

split-fin-splash



Izzis chicken, or serenity?

glug

glug

glug

sigh

burble:  o o o o o o o
Not A Poet
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10 posted 07-05-2005 09:17 AM       View Profile for Not A Poet   Email Not A Poet   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Not A Poet's Home Page   View IP for Not A Poet

Some people just can't help themselves but blame Bush for everything. Who was the last Justice he appointed?

I suppose the next thing is for the city to abscound with every residential property then make us all pay rent. That would surely increase the tax base.

serenity blaze
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11 posted 07-05-2005 09:47 AM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Pete?

That's just about what is happening here in New Orleans.

Cept they call it property tax re-assessment, and it's not based on our depressed economy, and last I heard, nobody came out to count my mama's termites, either. The lizards are protecting her, tho.

Friggin' reptiles.

and there I go sounding hysterical again...

Alicat
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12 posted 07-05-2005 11:04 AM       View Profile for Alicat   Email Alicat   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alicat

Thanks Tim for the clarification on which side of the ruling the Justices fell.  More liberal pro, more conservative con.  And yeah, there's always going to be someone around to holler "It's all Bush's fault!  It's all about oil!" or similiar daft epithets.  For those saying it's been just Republicans stuffing the Justice Pool, like FDR did during the 1930's and 1940's, here's a handy dandy link:

Supreme Court Justices
Mistletoe Angel
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13 posted 07-05-2005 01:11 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

I don't know what side of the futon those "liberal" judges woke up on when that decision was made, but that's one decision I still am absolutely flustered by.

And yes, I believe Bush should be and deserves to be blamed for much else of the growing chasm between the rich and poor, corporations and co-ops, but this decision is another ingredient to the great problem where the "little guy" is being given the cold shoulder.

It seems our whole political infrastructure right now seems to lean more pro-Marriott than pro-John & Jane.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton

"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

Mother Teresa

Alicat
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14 posted 07-05-2005 01:42 PM       View Profile for Alicat   Email Alicat   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alicat

Noah, I'm confused.  What does President Bush have to do with Supreme Court rulings and the actions of County and State governments?  It wasn't the Federal Government trying to take property for increased tax revenues, it was local and state governments.  So, if you could please enlighten me, would you explain the correlation between the President of the United States and the actions of Governors and Mayors, or in the case of New London, Connecticut, City Managers?

[This message has been edited by Alicat (07-05-2005 02:27 PM).]

Local Rebel
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15 posted 07-05-2005 08:23 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

quote:


Some people just can't help themselves but blame Bush for everything. Who was the last Justice he appointed?

And yeah, there's always going to be someone around to holler "It's all Bush's fault! It's all about oil!" or similiar daft epithets. For those saying it's been just Republicans stuffing the Justice Pool, like FDR did during the 1930's and 1940's, here's a handy dandy link:

although the fingers love to point at Bush, he doen't figure into it.




I don't know what you guys are reading -- but here's what I wrote;

quote:


George Bush made the comment the other day that it's 'his job to keep this economy growing'.

Absolutely incredulous I was at this 'conservative' viewpoint -- combined with this type of decision from the Court, recent actions by the Congress -- it appears the confluence of corporatism and conservatism has left conservatism a little cold.



Now, in this statement you'll note two things -- first -- what I accuse Bush of is saying what he said, which, doesn't jive with conservative Smithean economics.  It's either an incredibly stupid misunderestimated statement -- or -- it's what he really thinks -- you decide.

In the second statement I use the words -- combined, and confluence -- words we use when discussing two separate things.  So, clearly I lay no blame on (this) Bush for this Supreme Court decision.

In my second posting -- you may correctly infer that I may lay responsibility with Bush 41 -- Souter is his appointment.  

In your Zeal to defend your party politics you miss the entire point that there isn't a Jeffersonian to be found in Washington -- of course Jefferson wasn't even a Jeffersonian for long as soon as that whole Louisiana purchase thing came up he did an about face -- what we have are a bunch of Whigs, in the Whitehouse, on the Bench, and in the Congress.

Thanks Cat for your post which confirms my information -- 7 of 9 Justices --Republican Presidential appointees.

quote:

Wasn't it the liberal wing- Stevens, Souter, Ginsburg and Breyer who were the majority?
Looks like big government and we are here to help you won out over the evils of the conservative right.



You may argue that Ginsburg and Breyer are liberals -- and when was the last time that a Zebra with Stripes made headlines?  -- but Stevens and Souter are much more varied and four do not a majority make -- the uber-conservative Kennedy was key to this decision.

If you actually read the decision you'll see two things -- it aint all that easy for a government to do this -- and...the government has owned your ass since the railroad went across the continent.  

KELO et al. v. CITY OF NEW LONDON et al. http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?court=US&navby=case&vol=000&invol=04 -108

Huan Yi
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16 posted 07-05-2005 08:34 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi


“The greatest good for the greatest number.”

Wasn't that notion at play here?

It wasn’t so that the developers could get rich
but that many others could get jobs that was at issue here
if I remember what little I know of it correctly.
Balladeer
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17 posted 07-05-2005 09:41 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Thanks Cat for your post which confirms my information -- 7 of 9 Justices --Republican Presidential appointees.

I'm not really sure where that figures in. Is it supposed to mean that this decision was made because the majority of the Supreme Court was appointed by Republicans? If whoever appointed each justice is somehow significant to this decision, then do we say the two Clinton appointees who both voted in favor of it make Clinton responsible or is Bush Sr, bringing Soutar in responsible? I don't see where this type of thinking goes anywhere.

Also, if the supposedly conservative make-up of the supreme court is responsible for this ruling then does that mean the thousands of other decisions they have made without incident or protest deserve praise? You can't have it both ways.

Personally I don't think appointments have anything to do with this decision. It was a bad decision made by five indivuals who should have known better.
Local Rebel
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18 posted 07-05-2005 09:56 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

quote:

Personally I don't think appointments have anything to do with this decision. It was a bad decision made by five indivuals who should have known better.



How did those individuals get thier jobs?

Appointments have everything to do with it -- Presidential politics and elections have everything to do with it -- and what I'm saying about the Repbulicans is what I've been saying all along -- they aren't (suprise) interested in protecting individual rights even though they talk a good game of individualism -- sure the Clinton appointees are responsible -- but like I asked before - since when do Zebras with stripes make headlines?
Balladeer
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19 posted 07-05-2005 10:20 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

...and, as I asked before, are you then going to give credit for all of the good decisions or lambaste them for that one? It appears you want to call them a Republican supreme Court when criticising only. Has anyone said over the past 10 or 20 years, "Boy, that Republican Supreme Court is really good"? I can assure you no Democrat has

Their decision was not a conservative decision, as evidenced by the condemnation of the Rebublicans in Congress. On the other side, however, according to Nancy Pelosi...

"It is a decision of the Supreme Court," said the Minority Leader. "So this is almost as if God has spoken."

Let us pray.....
Local Rebel
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20 posted 07-05-2005 10:23 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

quote:

...and, as I asked before, are you then going to give credit for all of the good decisions or lambaste them for that one?



Have you talked to Bill Frist or Tom Delay lately?
Balladeer
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21 posted 07-05-2005 10:40 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Answering questions with questions is alway an interesting tact...

No, I talk to them about as much as you talk to  Teddy K.
Local Rebel
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22 posted 07-05-2005 11:08 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

No, I don't -- what was the question?  Oh yeah -- good decisions, bad decisions -- they're all the decisions of an independent judiciary -- an essential component of the republic - but they aren't totally isolated from the political process -- it is rather the conservative voices that are constantly beating the drums over the court

quote:

"It is a decision of the Supreme Court," said the Minority Leader. "So this is almost as if God has spoken."

Let us pray.....



so where's the emergency legislation?  8 states have protections already to gaurd the populace from eminent domain run amok... is Frist going to call an all night session to deal with this?
Balladeer
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23 posted 07-05-2005 11:22 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

good question...and I don't have, nor would you expect me to have, an answer. They don't really keep me informed.

What can one do against nancy pelosi's God??
Tim
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24 posted 07-05-2005 11:27 PM       View Profile for Tim   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Tim

the uber-conservative Kennedy?
are we talking about the same Supreme Court?
 
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