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All the News (or not) Unfit to Print...

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Balladeer
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0 posted 05-15-2005 08:19 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer


WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Newsweek magazine said on Sunday it erred in a May 9 report that U.S. interrogators desecrated the Koran at Guantanamo Bay, and apologized to the victims of deadly Muslim protests sparked by the article.
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Editor Mark Whitaker said the magazine inaccurately reported that U.S. military investigators had confirmed that personnel at the detention facility in Cuba had flushed the Muslim holy book down the toilet.

We regret that we got any part of our story wrong, and extend our sympathies to victims of the violence and to the U.S. soldiers caught in its midst," Whitaker wrote in the magazine's latest issue, due to appear on U.S. newsstands on Monday.

Whitaker told Reuters that Newsweek did not know if the reported toilet incident involving the Koran ever occurred. "As to whether anything like this happened, we just don't know," he said in an interview. "We're not saying it absolutely happened but we can't say that it absolutely didn't happen either."


One of the United State's worst enemies is its own media. In their exuberant desire to grab headlines and sell papers by coming up with the most "shocking" headlines they can discover, or invent, they do an incredible amount of damage to the United States, its military and the country in general and then say "Oops, sorry" when caught. Whatever "journalistic integrity" or "responsible resporting" they used to exhibit, if ever, seems to have taken the last train for the coast...
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1 posted 05-15-2005 09:13 PM       View Profile for Alicat   Email Alicat   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alicat

Geeze.  When I first heard this story, I was shocked.  Then when I heard the story came from a single anonymous source, I was flabbergasted, as well as apalled that Newsweek would do such a thing.  When the protests started, Newsweek basically said they had no idea the story would provoke such a reaction.  Uh-huh.  Dozens of people died because of their story, based entirely on one anonymous source.

I thought the media had learned its lessons last time, with the Bush National Guard fiasco.  Again, single anonymous source.  With anonymous sources, the reasoning is fear of retaliation/retribution, or an axe to grind.  And a single source?  Haven't they learned anything yet?  You ALWAYS check your references, ALWAYS check your sources, and ALWAYS have more than one!
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2 posted 05-15-2005 09:16 PM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine

You'd think they would have
Rathered had a bit more sense?

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3 posted 05-15-2005 10:11 PM       View Profile for Ringo   Email Ringo   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Ringo

Watergate started with a single anon. source... HOWEVER there was something called RESEARCH that was done before the story was broken...
Now, all anyone is concerned about is doing as much damamge to (insert favorite target) and getting the story out before anyone else has the chance to lie about it.

Who would have thought that the National Inquirer would be so influential in the field of journalistic integrity???

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4 posted 05-16-2005 12:46 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

"We regret that we got any part of our story wrong, and extend our sympathies to victims of the violence and to the U.S. soldiers caught in its midst," Editor Mark Whitaker wrote in the apology.

The White House said Monday that Newsweek's response was insufficient.

"It's puzzling. While Newsweek now acknowledges that they got the facts wrong, they refuse to retract the story," said presidential spokesman Scott McClellan. "I think there's a certain journalistic standard that should be met. In this instance it was not.


Talk about an understatement......

In Pakistan, an alliance of six conservative Islamic parties has already rejected Newsweek's apology.

Alliance leader, Qazi Hussain Ahmed, said it was "a crude attempt, both by the weekly magazine and the American authorities to defuse the anger of the Muslims across the world".


You don't get the genie back in the bottle. The Newsweek editor is as guilty of murder as he would be by going to the Middle East and firing bullets into the heads of those who have died as a result of this reporting.
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5 posted 05-16-2005 01:40 PM       View Profile for Alicat   Email Alicat   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alicat

Well, I could be wrong here, but I think that print media is the last holdout for irresponsible liberties.  Freedom of Speech: If one was to incite a riot by his/her speech where people were injured or killed by the riot (like Fire! or Bomb! in a crowded theater), that person would be charged for every instance of injury or death.  Freedom of Expression: If one was to incite a riot by his/her actions where people were injured or killed by the riot (like sneaking in a gun filled with blanks, then firing at the roof in a crowded building), that person would be charged for every instance of injury or death.  Same with Freedom of Religion and Assembly.  But with Freedom of Press, there's no consequences for printing something which leads to the death or injury of others, at least barring public outcry, and even then the offending parties are simply fired or have a monetary fine which accountants handle.  Whoever wrote that story and the editor who allowed it to be run should be disciplined to the full extent their actions dictate.  They should be charged with every instance of death and injury their reporting caused.
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6 posted 05-16-2005 02:31 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

Well, I've found it plainly obvious from the beginning that the media is the source of so much misinterpretation and miscommunication in all the world, and this display by Newsweek is just one of many incredible misfortunes our own media inspired. And I do also think those responsible for this story should be put in jail for this.

It's a shame that we have these few incidents of journalists without character or dignity overshadowing the headlines and such as well when there are still in fact many great, disciplined journalists in the world. Naomi Klein is probably my favorite.

All the same, those Newsweek journalists are unbelievably irresponsible for what they've done here, and it's those like them who are just painting the perception that all journalism is corrupted in the world.

I have to add though that to those who are screaming that Newsweek magazine is getting people killed, well, that really isn't accurate, as this war didn't have to happen and such and I believe it's our own government that has incited a lot of the anger and violence down there.

And, obviously, a lot of those most outraged about Newsweek were those most adamant about going to war to begin with. Like The Poor Man of Instapundit, who insisted Saddam had something to do with 9/11 on and on, then after the commission made their confirmation, he shouted out they had no credibility.

All I'm saying here is, many of these critics are the very ones who got us into Iraq to begin with, and it's our own administration and misintelligence that got us into this quagmire and costed the lives of over 1,600 of our soldiers and over 100,000 others in either a direct or secondary effect in result of this invasion. Newsweek have their own serious problems to deal with, but they're just part of the huge problem too.

So I guess I also believe though this Newsweek example is irresponsible in that it just lacked research and substance to me, I do absolutely believe the truth has been stifled in many other instances by other media outlets (wink wink). As it is, I believe our media has a very antagonistic, confrontational, discriminating stance on Arabs and Muslims, with some comparing the Quran to Hitler's Mein Kampf and calling Mohammed a terrorist, etc. I believe there's a dangerous, deadly amount of misinterpretation of Islamic religion in our media, and we're just in a huge mess as it is with that.

I've gotta tell you, I can only dream right now of how much we could learn, how significant the effect would be, if the megaphone could be directed away from officialdom and communities with average Joes and Janes everywhere have access to it. Obviously not everyone would be right and we couldn't expect to agree with everyone, but at least we're not all anxious in being dependant on journalists alone and pray something like this doesn't happen.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton


"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

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7 posted 05-16-2005 07:30 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

I have to add though that to those who are screaming that Newsweek magazine is getting people killed, well, that really isn't accurate

Sorry, Noah, but it IS accurate and it is well documented. Regardless of what you may believe about whether we should be in Iraq or not, we are there and the Newsweak article has indeed been responsible for the current riots and the deaths and hundreds of injuries. Calling it inaccurate is simply refusing to acknowledge the truth.

As it is, I believe our media has a very antagonistic, confrontational, discriminating stance on Arabs and Muslims

No, Noah, what our media has is an unquenchable thirst to bash Bush and the administration every chance they get, from erroneus reports about his service record to Dan Rather's rush to condemn to Newsweek. They jump on every opportunity they can and don't mind embellishing when facts are lacking. They could care less about the consequences. They had to know that, by publishing this non-story there would be riots, people would get killed, our servicemen would be in even more danger than they are and that the image of the United States in the eyes of the Muslim world would be further damaged....and, despite of all that, they could not help themselves because it was another chance to take a shot at the administration. They are pathetic....

By the way, Noah, I admire you for responding
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8 posted 05-16-2005 08:26 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

What I was saying, Balladeer, is that this particular incident would never have happened had we not gone to Iraq. Newsweek should claim responsibility for these particular tragedies, but at large it's this administration that's responsible for taking us there to begin with and has incited a lot of the ongoing violence and instability there.

And I absolutely defend what I said in that our media frequently paints an ongoing negative perception of Arabs and Muslims as terrorists and that their religion promotes hatred and violence. O'Reilly for instance has many times made those sorts of antagonistic statements (and, believe me, I, too, have a strong finger in going back into the archives!)

I really don't think our media has that "unquestionable thirst" you speak of in bashing Bush at every opportunity. If that was true, Uzbekistan would be mentioned everywhere in the headlines right now and go on questioning him in the manner I have questioned his position on Uzbekistan in the new thread I started today. Add to that many of the economic moves he's made in the past few months which make it harder for Americans to declare bankruptcy or failing to improve the minimum wage, where I've heard no antagonism or even concern sweeping the media landscape on that.

I don't deny there are certain publications that dissent Bush and his policies, like Harper's Magazine, The Nation and The Progressive, but at large, I think we have a mainstream media that is so centralized and officialized and its officialdom often tends to tolerate Bush.

If you still insist that there's a liberal media, which I absolutely don't believe there is, we'll see what you say after Bob Scheiffer settles in more at CBS and Ken Ferree and the GOP majority reform Public Broadcasting, because I continue to see no progressive hosts other than David Brancaccio of "NOW!" anywhere on the entire major network and cable news television landscape.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton


"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

Mother Teresa
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9 posted 05-16-2005 10:12 PM       View Profile for Not A Poet   Email Not A Poet   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Not A Poet's Home Page   View IP for Not A Poet

Of course Noah, none of this would have happened if God had not created Adam and Eve. Or can you find some way to blame Pres. Bush for that too?


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10 posted 05-16-2005 10:47 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

I knew someone would come up with the "Well, this wouldn't have happened if...." excuse. Sorry it was you, Noah. It did happen. It shouldn't have. Newsweek is responsible for its criminal action. If you can't see that then I suggest your vision is being clouded by your biased political opinions. I certainly have my own personal political opinions also but I can assure you, and you may believe it or not as you wish, thet even if I were a Bush-hater and completely against our actions in Iraq, I would STILL consider Newsweek's actions to be irresponsible and criminal.

An excellent point, Pete, that says it all..
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11 posted 05-16-2005 10:56 PM       View Profile for Ringo   Email Ringo   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Ringo

What I was saying...is that this particular incident would never have happened had we not gone to Iraq...

Noah, my dear, sweet ,naive friend... I have read many of your thoughts, and replies on here, and have read a few e-mails that we have passed on various subjects, and- although I don't agree with 98% of it- I have allowed you those thoughts because they are yours ands your are entitled to them. This time, however, I cannot allow this statement to go unchecked.

Blaming President Bush for the attacks on Americans (which occured as a result of the Newsweek story) is akin to blaming President Clinton for Air Force Capt. Scott O'Grady being shot down. If we weren't there, it would never have happened, right?
A quick modern history lesson for you, my friend... Americans are being killed, NOT by the Iraqis, whose country we "invaded" and continue to "occupy"... rather by muslim extremists between the ages of 18 and 40 (for the most part). This is not the first time it has happened, either, Noah. Let me give you a few examples of American's interaction with muslin extremists in that age group over the last 35 years, and you tell me if you feel that the American President was to blame for the deaths:

1) In 1968, Senator Robert Kenedy was killed by a muslin extremist in that range... and that was on American soil.
2) In 1972, Israeli athletes were killed by muslim extremists between the ages of 18 and 40. Perhaps it was the Prime Minister of Israel's fault for sending Israeli citizens to a foreign country where the citizens of that country were glad they were there?
3)In 1979, the American Embassy in Iran was taken over by muslim extremists between the ages of 18 and 40 (actually, they were mostly college students).
4)During the 1980's numerous Americans in the Middle East (mainly Jordan) were kidnapped by islamic extremists.
5)In 1983, over 260 Brothers (American Marines) were killed by islamic extremists in Beruit while they were sleeping. as the result of a car bomb (historical footnote: shortly afterwards, they extremists blew up another building not too far away)
6) In 1985, a 70 year old American named Leon Klinghoffer was killed and thrown overboard while sitting in his wheelchair by islamic extremists as he vacationed on a cruise ship.
7)In 1988, Pan Am flight 103 was blown out of the sky over Lockerby Scotland by islamic extremists, killing a mes of people, including Americans.
8)In 1998, the American embassies in Tanzenia and Kenya were bombed by islamic extremists.
9) On September 11, 2001 over 3,000 people (Americans and other nationalities) were killed by islamic extremists.
10) The USS Cole, The FIRST Trade Center bombing, reporter Daniel Pearl, CIVILIANS driving water trucks to Iraqi citizens...

Noah, have you begun to see the picture? ALL of these (with the exception of Daniel Pearl and the civilians in Iraq) happened before the majority of Americans knew there was an Iraq, and before most who did know could spell it, or point to it on the map. In none of these cases that I have given you, could the American President (or the leader of the country that wasn't American) be blamed for the event happening. Islamic extremists, just as Arian Pride extremists, just as Black Pride (my apologies for the antiquated usage) extremists,just like Irish exteremists, do not care where you are, or that you are in their country... that makes it too personal, and these people couldn't care any less about personal vendettas than they do about Sadie Hawkins Day. For them it is about their view point, and what message they want to get across. If it wasn't the Americans in Iraq, it would be the Americans elsewhere in the world.

There are other points that you made that I have contention with, however, to contimue with this response, I would have to charge Ron with royalites for my latest novel.

I appreciate that you are able to voice your opinions with grace, and with respect for varying viewpoints, however I would ask that you not allow your personal views to be clouded so much that you ignore the facts.


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Alicat
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12 posted 05-16-2005 11:05 PM       View Profile for Alicat   Email Alicat   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alicat

There was another World Trade Center attack, in 1994 I believe.
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13 posted 05-16-2005 11:10 PM       View Profile for Ringo   Email Ringo   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Ringo

Yes, Ali...that is the one I was allusding to... just over 100 people were killed in that attack, and it happened on American soil. And the leader of whatever country the attackers were from was no more to blame that Preisdent Bush is now.

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Mistletoe Angel
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14 posted 05-16-2005 11:46 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

Now you're just moving us far beyond the present scope in bringing the Adam and Eve theory into it. Everything now wouldn't have happened under that frame of thinking.

I'm not that kind of person that blames my lawnmower not starting or when my sister gets a migraine on Bush or whatever. But no matter what you want to believe, Bush and his administration took us into Iraq, decided to poke around the hornet's nest, and now we've gotten both ourselves and them stung in this predicament. And again, I say what those particular Newsweek journalists involved in this incident did is criminal and should be charged, just as, in the true sense of the word, those who started this war should be charged with war crimes.

Ringo, I'm blaming the casualties of this war in Iraq in general on Bush and his administration. And, like I said, in this isolated incident of misintelligence that incited the extremist violence to innocent citizens, I do believe the Newsweek people are the real blame here.

What I'm saying is that this invasion is really what shook that hornet's nest, and why violence continues to go on in Iraq, and hadn't we invaded, all thse tragedies wouldn't have happened either, so, frankly, this senseless invasion set the stage for all the instability there. And of course, the fact is, we are there. Of course we're there. But are you just going to use that same attitude everytime you decide to run a huge operation like this and then once you cross the line feel you can get anyway with everything? That's ridiculous thought.

In the new Uzbekistan thread I started, I shared what Scott McClellan had to say about the violence in Uzbekistan. He believes they should get a democratic government through peace and not through violence. And if that's really his message, then why didn't they make that their message and attitude towards Iraq? Why?

I personally have been lead to believe that's exactly how you should feel. Speechless. At a loss of words. That while many in this administration keep claiming they want to promote peace and democracy in the world now, they consider Uzbekistan a major ally on the war in terror, when their leader's terrorizing all their own people no less brutally than what Saddam did to hundreds of thousands in Iraq.

I'll tell you one thing. Scott McClellan was right on today in what he said about the newsweek mishap. He said at one point, "The report has had serious consequences. People have lost their lives. The image of the United States abroad has been damaged." He's totally right about the lives lost and the image being damaged worldwide, he's only naive about what REALLY incited both these things in the first place. For months now virtually every country in the world by a large majority opposes the war and thinks less of the U.S now because of the invasion. Comments like Rumsfeld calling Europe "Old Europe", etc.

Those involved covering that Newsweek story deserve to be disciplined. All the same, I find it incredible how there's no outrage equally as loud of this war and toward those who took us there. Over half of the nation now disapproves of this war, and I believe if you're not outraged at what's happening, you're just not paying attention.

That's all for today.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton


"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

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15 posted 05-17-2005 12:12 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Well, I guess that's it, Noah. You refuse to address the Newsweek issue on its own (lack of) merit without going after the entire administration and the Iraq war. It reminds of the Senator who, when convicted of stealing, said it wasn't his fault because Congress made it so easy to do so. The thread is about Newsweek's action. They stand by themselves. Sorry you couldn't address it but I wish you the best.
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16 posted 05-17-2005 08:55 AM       View Profile for Michelle_loves_Mike   Email Michelle_loves_Mike   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Michelle_loves_Mike

OK, time for my 2 cents worth, which, always goes unnoticed anyway, lol. The "media" has always taken a single "factoid" and made a, pardon the pun, federal case out of it. That's what the media is all about, hence, terms like, media frenzy(which brings to mind a gang of sharks tearing apart the "food", not caring what species, variety, color, religion, financial standing, fame, or taste....just trying to be the first to get the biggest bite).
For every "reporter", be it t.v., cable, newspaper, etc., that does do the homework,,there are plenty that just run with it...it's sorta human nature, like,,,a rumor that runs wild, you dont believe it,,,but,,just mayyyyybe.
So,,,I guess thats all, I don't watch the news, sad I know, but, I figure, if it's anything happening of importance, it will end up on PIP in one form or another.
Thank you for your patience.

If home is where the heart is,,,,,I guess the corner bar is where the mind wanders off to

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17 posted 05-17-2005 09:25 AM       View Profile for Ringo   Email Ringo   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Ringo

What I'm saying is that this invasion is really what shook that hornet's nest, and why violence continues to go on in Iraq, and hadn't we invaded, all thse tragedies wouldn't have happened either, so, frankly, this senseless invasion set the stage for all the instability there.

Noah, once again I find that your vision is clouded by the rosey glasses of the utopian society that is your opinion.

The Middle East has been a source of instability and strife for as long as man has been recording history. Most recently (the last 30 years or so) Iraq has been at the forefront of the region's anarchistic ways. And Saddam Hussein, himself, has been at the forefront of that instability within his country since 1958.
The Iraqi peple shook off the Monarchy in 1958, and Saddam Hussein began immediately to hatch a plan to assassinate the new Prime Minister. THe plot was discovered, and he fled the country in fear of his own life.
In 1963, he returned, and eventually became the head of state in 1979. He then immediately began putting his political rivals to death. He also, in an interview with a reporter, ADMITTED that he tortured and killed his political opponants claiming, asking "What do you expect if they oppose the regime?"
Saddam Hussein has also on MORE THAN ONE OCCASION used chemical weapons to put down mass groups of people who did not share his views and who protested his rule.
In 1980, he attacked Iran in the attempt to gain control of the Shatt al-Arab waterway, thereby controlling access to the Gulf. In 1990, he invaded neighboring Kuwait to control the oil reserves.
Until just recently (oh... the past 2 years or so, since the international force has been in country), Iraq was financially bankrupt. The citizens were literally starving while Saddam grew richer and built more elaborate palaces for himself.
The Saddam regime also sponsored terrorist organizations within the region. Terrorists, by there very nature, are designed to cause diessention and to forward their ideals by threatening the security of an area, or a peoples with violence and random destruction.

That, my friend, is the reality of the situation. The attacks and instability that you are claiming to be as a result of Americans (forgetting completely the other nations that have troops on the ground) being in the area were happening anyway. You claim that if we were not there, this would not be happening, and there would be no American deaths.  Once again, Noah, it is the islamic extremists that were supported by the former regime that are causing all of the challenges we are facing with car bombs and all. It is NOT the Iraqi people who are causing the disruption. It is the people who were causing the disruption all along.


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Mistletoe Angel
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18 posted 05-17-2005 12:30 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

I don't know what to say, Balladeer. You gave me no choice to go back over two years ago and re-hash those facts because I happen to believe you were merely just using this story to further your own "liberal media" myth. I believe you, yourself, really didn't want to talk about this story in its pure context and rather was achieving your own sort of goal with it. And I can understand why, after all, there is a lot of ammunition you can use here.

Ringo, you can bully me all you want with my notions and beliefs, but I still believe in all my heart there's nothing more naive and cynical than war. Deep down, you have to ponder that some who have done such atrocious things get held accountable, while others go on without even a warning and just whistle away like nothing is wrong.

Iraq has indeed had a harsh history, and I'm glad you brought back some history there. But the fact remains that this war has brought out the worst in us all all throughout the world, no matter what you'd like to believe. Before this story broke out, half of America and virtually all the world by a 2/3 to 3/4 margin in most countries opposed this war and still do. Even before the controversial shooting of an Italian journalist, between 8-9 in 10 Italians opposed the war.

Again, Iraq has never been a stranger to tragedy. But we weren't at war in Iraq prior to March 2003 either.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton

"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

Mother Teresa

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19 posted 05-17-2005 01:17 PM       View Profile for Ringo   Email Ringo   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Ringo

Noah... I have never attempted to bully you, and did not choose this particular moment to begin.

You claim that this war has brought out the worst in us all... Once again, I need to turn away from my opinions and bring out a few of the facts in this matter.

Before the international coalition got the previous ledership out of power, there were only 35% of the public health facilities were operational. That number is up to near 100% today. Before the world came together and acted as one voice, women were considered as third class citizens, below even male CHILDREN, with female children ranking somewhere slightly below worm castings. Today there are women in positions of political power, and leading the nation. Female children are now going to school.
Gary Senise, the actor, has mobilized other actors, as well as private citizens around the country to gather money and school supplies to take to the children of Iraq so they might be better educated.
Fighting men and women from around the world have put their arms down temporarily in order to get the nation's infrastructure together so the people of Iraq can have electricity and water for irrigation and personal use.
The international Red Cross/Red Crecent has received record numbers of donations given by the American people, as well as the people of the world, to be given to the Iraqi people.
Countries around the world have either forgiven or extended loans to the fledgling government. Countries have also extended more loans to Iraq so they might be more able to afford to govern themselves. The sanctions imposed by the UN in 1991 have been lifted so the Iraqi people might more ably take care of themselves.
International soldiers have given their lives in defense of Iraqi children who were under attack by the same insurgents that are causing the instability you have spoken of. These same fighting men and women have given their lives to prevent the mistreatment given to iraqi women (and it doesn't take college education to figure that one out) that was done by the insurgents.

Noah, I contend that war brings out only the worst in those who are the worst. War only brings out the worst in those people who are intent on bringing out the worst in others. War, as in the case of any personal catastrophe/diswaster/strife, brings out the best in those who are, at their core, basically decent, loving human beings.

You can use this forum, or any others to voice your opinions on this matter, and to voicew at the top of your lungs the insanity of my thoughts and viewpoints. I can scream at the top of my lungs the naivete and idiocy of those viewpoints which you are advocating at the top of yours. Just remember, my friend, that every single time you do so, you owe a debt of gratitude to the same man you are vilifying- as well as to the other 42 who took the heat before him because it is through his efforts as the Commander-in-Chief that others the world over are able to begin to live with the same joy of free breath that you are.

With that thought, I am going to alter my last post slightly... Yes, it is because of President Bush leading the international forces that the people of Iraq are able to act in a manner of their choosing. Yes, it is because of President Bush leading the international forces that the Iraqi citizens are able to protest freely the failings of their government. It is because of President Bush leading the international forces that women are on the road to true equality in Iraq.
It is because of these freedoms that the terrorists around the Middle East are using car bombs to blow up innocent people in the attempt to undo the freedoms that the Iraqi people are enjoying and take them back to the same supressive regime they once were afraid to live in. If you wish to blame President Bush for upsetting the forces of evil, then you know what?? I will agree with you on that. All you need to do in return is to also blame President Bush for expanding and fostering democracy throughout the rest of the world.

I'm drowning, choking
   Falling deeper into this
   Black hole we call living
...Fates Warning

LeeJ
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20 posted 05-17-2005 01:44 PM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

unfortunately, this kind of news hype has gone on for years and years...isn't that the reason Princess Di was killed?  How bout all the movie stars who fear the news media...this wouldn't happen if people wouldn't be so all caught up in gossip, and completely ignore these stories and shows...they sicken my stomach, and to me, shows the intellectual concept of today's society.  I don't want to know the dirty words about everyone's lives...who here doesn't have skelatons living in their own closet...yet, we always cast the first stone?????  

Apparently, what we don't understand here, is that to the people in Pakistan, the Koran is their eternal soul...which they are dedicated to totally...it's all they have. Be them wrong or right, we most certainly stepped on them and literally exposed them naked by stories of us flushing their Bible down the toilet.  How unthinking we've become?  How disrespectful...and yet, if someone were to do that to us...OMG!  Fair is fair, and they have every right to be upset...but in the same, they don't have the right to take lives over it, so who is worse?  We're all a community, and we've got to learn to somehow stop retaliating by an even worse measure to get even.  Each one of us is wrong here...in my book.
Ringo
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Saluting with misty eyes


21 posted 05-17-2005 02:01 PM       View Profile for Ringo   Email Ringo   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Ringo

Lee- Small challenge... It never happened. No one is questioning their right to be upset with the Koran being disrespected. No one is faulting anyone with the Koran issue except for the Newsweek reporter who "broke" the story that never happened, and the Newsweek editors who approved a story that never happened, and the Newsweek publishers who published a story that never happened.
Yes, if the Bible were to be disrespected, the majority of Americans would be livid. However, if the story broke, and THEN it came to light that the story that got Americans foaming at the mouth was done for sensationalism, and never actually occured... where do you think our ire would be placed then?

I'm drowning, choking
   Falling deeper into this
   Black hole we call living
...Fates Warning

Mistletoe Angel
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22 posted 05-17-2005 02:20 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

Idiocy, Bradly?

THAT'S the bullying I'm talking about here. This has put me under the impression that the only "truth" many who relate more to this administration's agenda is their own agenda's truth. I feel they just can't tolerate any sort of dissent, and in result, every opinion that's not of their caliber is an unpopular opinion in their mind, and every little disagreement is a threat to them. It's all black and white I feel in many minds of this administration, and that's just not how you can expect to make any progress.

You say my views are views of idiocy, yet people are dying out there. Hundreds died this past week alone with consecutive days of relentless car bombs. Our own children here at home are bring sacrificed of many basic qualities of life, like health care, college education and decent wages, because so much of our money is going toward corporations like Lockheed Martin who manufacture military junk like C-130J's, a "cargo plane" which can't drop heavy equipment (which is what cargo planes are designed to do), can't operate in cold weaher, lacks the range to travel in immediate circumstances to global hotspots, etc. And already $2.6 billion have gone to make these.

Meanwhile, health has declined in Iraq. Malnutrition has doubled since the invasion. Unemployment is staggering. Electricity and water still hasn't been offered to many regions. And beyond all that, no exit strategy in sight, because, after all, there never was one prepared to begin with.

And while Bush continues to pay no mind to the atrocities happening in Uzbekistan and Nepal and disregard the fact that in Saudi Arabia women cannot even vote and all, regardless, I am willing to offer you the room to speak without regarding your views as idiocy. All I believe is I don't buy that notion that to achieve peace requires hatred and violence. I can't believe that.

*

Now, let me try and just add my input to this Newsweek story alone here.

I do believe Isikoff and his story associates must be held accountable for the at least 17 deaths under his watch. I personally believe they ought to be jailed.

I do believe he should resign, which currently doesn't look to be the case, and should do so without the White House forcing it.

I also agree with what Scott McClellan said, in that Newsweek mus set the record straight by "clearly explaining what happened and how they got it wrong, particularly to the Muslim world."

Daniel Klaidman and his staff should consider the serious consequences here, and provide the whole truth and nothing but the truth to how the story was pieced together from the beginning, and be warned crucially these mistakes don't repeat themselves.

That's basically what should generally happen in my mind.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton


"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

Mother Teresa
LeeJ
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23 posted 05-17-2005 02:56 PM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

Ringo, I agree with you, and your right, absolutely, but, like Noah suggests, you can't find peace with violence...and these people have to be held accountable...yes, ohh yes, I have wondered to, about the story that never happened...which was translated into putting the blame on one of the detainees, who supposidly tore up his Koran and stuffed it down the toilet to stop it up in protest...I think Not..to them, doing something like that would be a henous crime to the soul...

ya know, this tit for tat, and revenge will be our demise...whose going to be mature enough to stop it, and say, Enough!  This is getting us no where?

And in the process, now, everyone's going to be crying, when our young men over there are being slane because of idle gossip.

A Story

A woman, gossiping about a woman who went to her church, that she was running around, while her husband worked nights...pretty soon, the entire congregation was talking, then the entire town, then the children in school were bullying her children, until the woman, who was completely innocent, hung herself out of despiration.

An old wives tale....a woman who was gossiping and told a terrible story about another, which wasn't true...was brought before a wise man of the village...he told her, take a feathered pillow, and cut it open, and wave it in the air, during a wind...the feathers traveled to far and wide...when she had completed the task, she returned to the wise man, and he told her, now woman, go collect every single feather...and she yelled, why that's impossible...he said, yes indeed, and so to, is it impossible to take back harsh words to anyone, or of gossip...you can kill a person with words, as if you've taken a gun yourself and held it to their head.  

Maybe this is out of context?  I appologize, if it is, but in the same, when we've become a society that thirsts for gossip, what have we become.  
Turn off those programs and stop buying those incriminating newspapers....if they weren't making any money off of it or getting ratings, they certainly wouldn't be doing it...simple solution...
stop buying gossip at another's expense...it's going way to far...costing lives...and to me, this is making money at all costs...my oh my, really sad stuff going on...


Mistletoe Angel
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24 posted 05-17-2005 04:28 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

Oh, Lee, I read the paper less and less now and I rather get my news by working with the KBOO Community Radio newsteam, which is very multicultural and diverse in thought. I never actually liked Newsweek to begin with. They were just too condensed and incomplete.

I am now currently assistant producer there most days and I am looking to be the producer there real soon.

We spend a lot of time delving into international press there. It's interesting what oasis of information you'll find from other regions of the world, and I find it very helpful to acculturate and to have a snese of relational empathy in what you do, especially when providing communication to a mass audience.

KBOO runs under a charter in which we air and provide unpopular stories and commentary that focuses on human rights and international relation themes in particular. So the environment is discussed a lot on the hourly news program, as well as a lot of overlooked international stories.

And even if you don't agree with the way the news program operates, the best part is you don't ever have to pay a dime for it if you don't want to. It's non-corporate radio, while you actually have to pay for the newspaper and news magazines.

Absolutely agree with you, Lee.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton

"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

Mother Teresa

 
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