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All the News (or not) Unfit to Print...

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Mistletoe Angel
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75 posted 05-21-2005 11:42 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel



Sure, Alicat, absolutely. I agree it would have been very helpful if I had added the question to begin with so we understand the relational and physical context of the meeting.

I've been trying to find a White House meeting transcript from Friday, which I haven't been able to find yet, but after catching some C-SPAN coverage, he was basically asked if he thought the pictures would stoke more anti-Americanism in Iraq and the Middle East, and Bush was silent between three-five seconds in doubt before responding.

I'll continue to try and find an official transcript because I don't want there to be anything misleading coming out of this.

And you may be absolutely right about Rupert Murdoch's limited personal influence with the newspapers just because he happens to own them. I just felt it important to at least take note of that but not meaning to make inflated allegations that Murdoch surely endorsed the photos off-hand.

The real concern I was making there is where this same sort of stunt is coming from these other publications, Bush just seems to be showing inconsistency, he can't seem to set his story straight.

Tha's what I'm concerned about.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton

"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

Mother Teresa

Mistletoe Angel
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76 posted 05-21-2005 11:49 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel



Wait, I've found it! Duh! It was a White House press meeting, so I finally thought the official web-site would have it! (smacks head) (giggles)
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/05/20050520-1.html

Q Sir, are you worried that the publication of the Saddam photo, along with the Newsweek story, will further inflame tensions and inspire the Iraq insurgency and anti-Americanism in the Middle East?

PRESIDENT BUSH: I think the Iraq insurgency is inspired by their desire to stop the march of freedom. Remember, these are ideologues of -- that murder innocent people in order to spread their dark vision of hate. And, therefore, when light begins to show up in the form of democracy, it frightens them. There is no future for these haters in a free world. And so they're inspired by the fact that they see democracy emerging in Iraq. That's what causes them to want to kill. They're frightened by the fact -- and inspired the wrong way, by the way -- by the fact that Afghanistan is free. They're seeing the people in Lebanon demand free and fair elections. And their ideology cannot survive in a democratic society. See, the only way they can survive is to -- is to try to shake our will by killing innocent life.

And that's why our strategy in Iraq is to train the Iraqis so that they, themselves, can fight off these terrorists. Listen, eight-and-a-half million people went to the polls, in spite of the fact that the -- people had been killed and there was incredible intimidation. And they defied the bombers. These people want to be free, and the killers don't want them to be free. And so our strategy is to help the Iraqis realize the dream of a free society. And when the Iraqi troops are properly trained -- and we're headed in that direction -- of course, it will take less of a coalition effort to help this new democracy get started.

Yes, Steve.

Q What about the Saddam photo? Does that have any --

THE PRESIDENT: Well, you asked me whether or not that would inspire people. You know, I don't think a photo inspires murderers. I think they're inspired by an ideology that is so barbaric and backwards that it's hard for many in the Western world to comprehend how they think. But I would just remind people, if you want to know how ideologically grim their vision of the world is, just remember the Taliban. They said, if you don't agree with our religious views you'll be prosecuted; if you're a woman who seeks freedom, you'll be beaten. So these people are motivated by a vision of the world that is backward and barbaric."


So, yeah, when you get the surrounding responses added to the direct quotation, it can always produce different perceptions or feelings often.

Still, there's inconsistent behavior from Bush between how he was condemning Newsweek earlier in the week and how he expressed doubt and silence at the end of this week towards The Sun and the New York Post.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton

"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

Mother Teresa

Alicat
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77 posted 05-22-2005 01:29 AM       View Profile for Alicat   Email Alicat   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alicat

Heh.  The NY Post?  Now, The Sun I could certainly understand, since they make no pretext about being anything other than a tabloid.  The New York Post, given their history, might as well include Page 3 girls and be true to their nature.

As for President Bush's pauses, I'll give this.  Unlike President Clinton, who was a great Statesman, but not, at least in my book, a great President, Bush is not a very good public speaker.  President Clinton was an OK to poor President, due his disregard for laws, quite surprising since he was a lawyer, and somehow managed to take a country entering an economic boom and leave it in a recession, which started around 1997, but an excellent public speaker.  And he still is.  Clinton could sell ice to Eskimos without breaking a sweat.  President Bush is an OK to good president, at least in my view given his circumstances, but is definately not a good public speaker.  This is something not even talented speech righters can correct, since President Bush is a self-professed malaprop and does attempt to think before he speaks.  He is not nearly as glib as his predecessor.

Time will tell, but so far there has not been the amount of violence and death with the Saddam photos as there were within hours of the Newsweek story hitting the Arabic stations.  Keep in mind the rationalization:  With the Newsweek story, rioters were claiming that as their impetus for their actions.  Only time will tell if others claim the Saddam photos as their excuses.
Balladeer
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78 posted 05-22-2005 07:46 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

AP News 05-22-2005

Behind the recent rise in anti-American sentiment is a now-retracted report in Newsweek that
Pentagon investigators had found evidence that interrogators at the U.S. Navy base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, placed copies of the Quran, the Muslim holy book, in washrooms to unsettle suspects and flushed a Quran down a toilet.

"We in principle don't reject anyone's visit to the Al Aqsa Mosque (compound), but we see in the visit of Mrs. Bush an attempt to whitewash the face of the United States, after the crimes that the American interrogators had committed when they desecrated the Quran," the militant Islamic Hamas group said in a statement on its Web site.


Thanks again, fellas...
Mistletoe Angel
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79 posted 05-22-2005 10:28 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

Yes, Alicat, and let me just add that while I absolutely agree Bush is not an exemplary speaker, I also am not one who likes to always make fun of one's malapropisms as many others do all the time on him and his "Bushisms". I recognize often he misinterprets things or uses the incorrect word in responses, but after all, he recognizes it too and often when he's with Laura and she's toasting him, he always jokes, saying how he loves her because she always corrects his English!

So indeed its understandable that he'd need a few seconds to review the question before responding. It's his attitude towards the question I have the particular concern of.

I also was expecting that the Saddam photos wouldn't cause as much of an uproar, because, obviously, Saddam is also unpopular among most Iraqis and Middle Easterners. Some protests did erupt out of that though so I do believe it still certainly didn't help ease the tension down there, and indeed violates the Geneva Convention's articles on the humane treatment of detainees.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton

"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

Mother Teresa

Alicat
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80 posted 05-22-2005 10:47 PM       View Profile for Alicat   Email Alicat   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alicat

Ask most teens about a reason to party and get drunk or worse, and you'll get a reason.  Ask any extremist about a reason for violence, and you get a reason.  Never will you get responsibility, aka 'I'm doing this due to my own beliefs found by my own research.'  Those bent on violence -- there's many such people and not all of them are Arabic -- will perpetrate such violence.  Some are of very Europian descent, who dress in their varied costumes the day before attending Sunday Service in their Closet Clothes (what I call them that wear their best on Sunday, then wear non-'Sunday' clothes for the rest of the week, if you catch my drift).

As for Mrs. Bush, I guess it is happy accident that President Bush married a Librarian.  

This is a side note.
While a senior in high school, it was a tradition in the Church of Christ that I attended that the seniors do 2 functions during the final semester: song leading, prayer, sermon, service.  I did prayer and sermon.  My sermon was on Church Clothes, how people wear their best suit on Sunday, but not for the rest of the week, keeping their spirituality in the closet until the next Sunday. (Matthew 23:27-28)  I was never asked back to deliver a sermon.  Go fig. *chuckle*
Mistletoe Angel
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81 posted 05-25-2005 01:54 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

I have another question, if I may.

How come those outraged about the Newsweek scandal aren't equally as outraged about the fact that the Pentagon lied about how Pat Tillman died?

Where's Scott McClellan speaking about what he spoke of to Newsweek there, or at least warning them of consistently distorting accounts?

Only recently his family have gotten to read over the military reports, and they are outraged that the government and some military officials would spin the story of his death for the purpose of creating a patriotic afterglow.

I believe the Tillman family deserves an apology from the highest Pentagon statute and the White House, which I haven't heard any intention to do so yet.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton

"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

Mother Teresa

Kellie_Cantrell
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82 posted 06-04-2005 06:37 AM       View Profile for Kellie_Cantrell   Email Kellie_Cantrell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Kellie_Cantrell

Check out this link, soon after the newsweek controversy this was posted at a church in N. Carolina we discussed this in my anthropology class.
http://www.iflipflop.com/2005/05/im-gonna-flush-that-koran-right-out-of.html
Balladeer
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83 posted 06-04-2005 04:27 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

LOL! Baptist churches in North Carolina have nothing to do with religion!!!
jbouder
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84 posted 06-05-2005 07:53 AM       View Profile for jbouder   Email jbouder   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for jbouder

quote:
What do you suppose would happen at a mosque in Rutherford County if the sign substituted "The Bible" for "The Koran"?


Obviously, Southern Baptist extremists would rise up and kill their fellow Southern Baptists.

Jim
Ron
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85 posted 06-05-2005 09:10 AM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

Maybe it's okay to denigrate a religion and those who practice it as long as we precede all our insults with LOL?
Balladeer
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86 posted 06-05-2005 10:23 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

You call that tongue-in-cheek denigration of a religion, Ron?  Lemme tell you...even the Baptists in North Carolina joke about some of the overzealous  Baptists in North Carolina! Having had a house in the middle of Baptist country in North Carolina for over 20 years gives me a tiny qualification to address the subject. Denigration.....ok, have it your way

[This message has been edited by Balladeer (06-05-2005 11:00 AM).]

 
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