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Illegal Immigration, what will it take?
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Illegal Immigration, what will it take? |
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Alicat Member Elite
since 1999-05-23
Posts 4094Coastal Texas 
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A wife in New York killed by an illegal immigrant from Guatamala. He was part of a power cleaning crew, hired due to his having a valid California drivers license under an assumed name. He had a prior conviction for battery in 2002 but nothing was done. He kills her, takes her cell phone, and dials numbers on it, taunting her relatives with details of what he just did. The media in New York City either refused to cover the story, or buried it in back pages. How much more of this will it take before American citizens, born here or naturalized, get sick and tired of people breaking federal law with the assistance of sympathetic Americans. Those Americans should be tried for aiding and abetting a known felon. How many more illegals need to consume taxpayer dollars in federal prisons where they are fed, clothed, sheltered, entertained and given health care that legitimate Americans work very hard to provide for themselves and their families? How long before there are wide-spread demands to secure our borders with Mexico and Canada and better regulate visas? In case any have forgotten, the butchers of 9/11 were all here illegally, some on expired student and tourist visas, some with valid drivers licenses. And more potential butchers have come across the borders illegally, like the one Arab woman found in Texas, with over $20k in small bills, no luggage, no identification, no visa, no green card, nothing. I know Vincente Fox will do nothing, not so long as American dollars keep flowing back into Mexico, sent by legals and illegals to their families in the motherland. He'll do nothing to provide educational and job opportunities to his own people, so long as they can freely cross into America...then they are no longer his concern. We ship illegals back to Mexico and Mexican officials, and in some cases, they are back in the US within a few hours. And then there's those who come here illegally, work for cash, pay no taxes, yet have their children in American schools getting a free education with free lunches and free medical. Free to them, but not to everyone paying school and property taxes. When will Americans rise up and say 'Enough is enough!'? I still urge others to at least read the online petition at http://www.reformus.com and make up their own minds as to whether or not to sign it. I know I have, and have others I've spoken to about this. And some have refused, and that's their right. |
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Mistletoe Angel 
since 2000-12-17
Posts 32816Portland, Oregon |
It is very tough indeed, and I believe it may even take decades until this whole thing is ever resolved fully. Even with all the concenrs of al-Qaeda or other terrorists taking advantage of the vulnerable border and coming in to run covert operations or what not in America, this issue is obviously on the backburner now. I don't know what my full opinion on immigration is. America deserves to be protected, but all the same, America's cultural melting pot is based largely on immigration historically. I wish there was a very accurate way you could balance the two now in this post-911 atmosphere. Meanwhile, to the south, Vicente Fox will be finishing and it'll be a mystery still where Mexico goes from here. I think most political analysts believe Mexico will be moving more to the left in 2006 as most of Latin America has done recently with the particular exception of Colombia, so I don't know exactly what the full response in that will mean. But my cynical view here is that there will be no immediate resolve to this serious problem. It'll be an evolutionary process. Schwartzenegger wants to build the wall on the California-Mexico border near San Diego, but after all, that's only one piece of the large puzzle, and a wall alone isn't going to squeeze out the immigrant fervor. Sincerely, Noah Eaton "If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other" |
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timothysangel1973
since 2001-12-03
Posts 1725Never close enough |
Land of the Free? Well, for immigrants it is for sure. This one touches a sour note with me because not so long ago, I was a single mom with two small children and I went to my local Social Service office for help and was turned down, their reason being that I made 22 cents too much. Somehow that didn't ease the hunger pains in my childrens bellies that evening. And? I had to submit 3 applications to the local school BEFORE my children could receive free meals and health insurance. I AM and AMERICAN citizen that was denied services to me and my children, and then there are some that get it as a reward for choosing to come here for whatever reason. I hate nothing more to see someone that is an illegal immigrant driving a 40,000 vehicle and wearing clothes from the gap, living here for the first 5 years tax free. I work for what I get, and I pay taxes. I think that when someone chooses to come here, he or she should be made to live by the same standards that those that are born here do. And Ali? If you really want to see something scary, just go to the F.B.I.'s Most Wanted list sometime and look at how many of those Most Wanteds are not even from this country. If that doesn't scare a person, nothing will. I think that Americans do need to say enough is enough, but I ain't holding my breath are you?  |
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Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-05-19
Posts 8669Michigan, US |
What will it take? Artificial barriers only restrict access to the law-abiding, thereby acting as filters rather than barriers. In that sense, they become self-fulfilling prophecies. It's a bit like sifting a river bed, but looking only at what makes it through the mesh rather than at what is stopped by it. Complaints about the sand just ignore the gold left behind. When I lived in Southern California, I often wished we could put a huge fence all around the state. Not just at the Mexican border, but at the Arizona and Nevada borders as well. Make people jump through sufficient hoops, I reasoned, and we could vastly improve the quality of life in what was an obviously over-populated area. What would have happened, of course, is that any artificial attempt to control the flow would have had a much bigger impact on the mix. We would have seen a much higher concentration of people with little respect for our laws, reinforcing and justifying our belief that anyone coming across the desert states was an undesirable. We wouldn't really see more criminals, or less for that matter, just a higher concentration. It's a nice formula for growing hate and fear. Having justified our beliefs, the next step would have been to advocate a better fence. What will it take? Say what you will about it, the Berlin Wall was fairly effective. Stone and mortar work somewhat more effectively than simple laws. I suspect the bullets worked better yet. Interestingly, the final three episodes of Star Trek: Enterprise will also deal with Xenophobia. As I write these words, the last two shows haven't yet been aired, but I suspect any long-time Trekkie already knows the ending. Indeed, even the non-Trekkies likely know what will happen. Anyone who has driven from Arizona into California, traveling with foreign plates and drivers license, should realize the potential power of trust and cooperation. What will it take? Maybe what we need is not bigger walls, but fewer walls? |
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timothysangel1973
since 2001-12-03
Posts 1725Never close enough |
Well, just for arguments sake and to further clarify myself here, First of all I am NOT a racist, I teach my children NOT to see color and the "N" word is not allowed in my home, or around my children. As far as disliking foreigners - can't say that I have a GENERAL dislike for non-americans I just don't always understand the differences in treatment when it comes to a single mom trying to get help and being denied. While, some of these foreigners have tax free lifestyles, new cars, public assisted housing, AFDC (foodstamps), free schooling, and childcare while they learn the American way. I don't think that building a wall would help either cause let's face it. People are a little more determined and are much craftier than they used to be. They would just tunnel underground to get in. My smallest child is on W.I.C. which helps with the supply of her infant formula. It is a supplement, and because she and I are part of this program I have to go to a monthly class. When I am there - usually there are 25 - 30 other mothers there as well, and I would say it safe to say that only 1 percent of those aren't of mexican descent. It doesn't bother me so much that there are alot of mexicans receiving help. What does bother me however is that when I was a single mom in desperate need of assistance I was turned down. I just wonder how many legal and illegal immagrants have been denied assistance thus far. I pay taxes into the system that refused to help me and my children when we were hungry. Which, only made me more determined to do it alone. What I find hilarious is that I had to re-marry, have another child (my husband makes around 42,000 a year) for them to tell me CONGRATS you qualify for assistance. Confuses the hell outta me to be honest. Obviously these people that come in illegal on boats are trying desperately to reach America in hopes of a better life for themselves and their children but that hardly makes it right. |
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Alicat Member Elite
since 1999-05-23
Posts 4094Coastal Texas |
Being either a second or third generation Scot (I'm still not sure how Grandpa Henry qualified, since he was born on the boat back in the 1880's), I'm not anti-immigration. Nor am I racist, though I've been called that by racists for calling them down for rule/law violations. Thing is that my family left Scotland for Ireland, then to England, and then to Ellis Island. They went through the steps and became citizens, though John and Louisa died shortly after from either smallpox or measles and the four kids were dispersed in the orphanage system. While I still had my torn ligament wrist injury, it took me most of a year to gain state medical assistance since I could not afford even a doctor's visit. In my jaded moments, I feel it was because I'm a white male in his 30's who speaks English. But I digress. Education here will not fix this. Reform in the immigration system will not fix this. It will take massive improvements in Mexico to fix this. The primary reason Mexicans sneak into America is for a better life, one they cannot get in Mexico. Were things much better in Mexico than they are now, we might actually see the situation reversed, with people trying to sneak into Mexico for a better life. The same goes for Cuba. The same goes for Central and South American leftist nations. I find it incongruous, not to mention humorous, that the so-called 'Utopian' societies always have an exodus out which leads to crackdowns to prevent people leaving such an idyllic worker's paradise. No matter what others thought of the Minute Men, that program worked. Illegal crossings were down, human trafficing was down, drug smuggling was down in those monitored areas. Of course, now that some of them have moved to other areas, open border groups have set up water stations in some of the Minute Men observation posts. If nothing else, continued border vigilance (not vigilantism) by the Border Patrol, civic volunteers, and the military would greatly hamper such activities. Something has to be done though. The majority of Hispanics in federal prisons are here illegally. Illegals with violent criminal histories are supplementing street gangs, roaming with impunity through 'sanctuary cities'. In those places, local and state law enforcement are prohibited from enforcing federal immigration law, or even reporting such to federal enforcement agencies. If an illegal presents forged documents to Motor Vehicles, the clerks cannot notify anyone. All they can do is deny the license request. If a county sheriff sees someone crossing a national border, they cannot apprehend, they cannot report, they can only sit on their hands. That, to me, is seriously messed up. I know the original intent was a good one, providing a 'safe' place for illegals to report abuses and crimes without fear of deportation, but it's been grossly perverted by those desiring nothing more than violence, murder, and mayhem. |
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Local Rebel Member Ascendant
since 1999-12-21
Posts 5767Southern Abstentia |
I'm sure that NATIVE Americans have a right, and should be upset about illegal immigration. We all have keychains full of keys. And, yep, they only keep out honest folks. So, go ahead and get rid of all your locks? Would the internet be a better place with fewer firewalls? While indiginous tribes had no walls and we know their fate -- we also know the fate of the Roman Empire that built Hadrian's wall, and the Chinese Dynasty that built the Great Wall. Security is good. Diversity is good. Common purpose is good. This is a debate that is as old as our nation -- or any nation -- read Ezra and Nehemiah for a particularly nasty point in human history when the Jews were busy tossing out anyone not of 'pure' Jewish heritage. There is a key word though that we have to keep in mind in this discussion and that is the word 'Illegal' -- it isn't Xenophobic to ask for effective enforcement of the laws that have been established for the common good of the people. |
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timothysangel1973
since 2001-12-03
Posts 1725Never close enough |
quote: Thank You Rebel for your remarks. As long as America is a free country then there will always be immigrants that come here seeking a better life. Reform is needed, and in most cases that reform is needed in the Social Help Systems that we so much pride our country for. We accept the tired, the poor, and the hungry masses. However, what we need to realize is that plenty of Americans fit that description as well. Everyone has their opinion on the matter and I guess it depends on what your veiws are as too what bothers you and what does not. [This message has been edited by timothysangel1973 (05-07-2005 10:05 PM).] |
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Mistletoe Angel
since 2000-12-17
Posts 32816Portland, Oregon |
 You make a very strong and interesting point, Local Rebel. Native Americans like my Cherokee ancestors don't have walls around their communities indeed. By the way, I wasn't endorsing the wall idea earlier really. I was just pointing out that's what Schwartzenegger is calling for outside the San Diego area, and when I said it was only one piece of the puzzle, I meant one piece of this giant debate. I suppose I can understand why this is such a divisive issue, where so many don't even have a complete opinion of or know exactly how to explain it. Often walls historically have such negative connotations to others in the world. The Berlin Wall was an infamous structure. The Israeli proposal to build the "apartheid wall" is being seen as infamous to many worldwide, particularly because it meanders along what is considered traditionally Palestinian territory. And so forth. I wish just like everyone else there was an easy answer tagged with an easy solution to the question of this topic. I really want America to be safe, but all the same I want America to remain perceived as the land of the free, not increasingly xenophobic. Sincerely, Noah Eaton "If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other" |
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Juju Member Elite
since 2003-12-29
Posts 3429In your dreams |
Um.... I hate to answere a complicated problem with a simple anwere but oh well. They break the law by illegally crossing the boarder. By them doing this they are hurting the number of legal immegrants, which isn't fair. If there is less illigal imigrants morew legal can come in. which actually will mean more diversity. Why? Instead of a massive amount of meaxican imigrants there will be a greater asian, african, middle east, european, and maybe even other central American immigrants. More law abidding mexicans will get there green cards to work on the boaders. \ Then again I am not an expert on foriegn policy and I don't really know anything so thats why I have a simple answere. Juju - 1.) a magic charm or fetish 2.)Magic 3.)A taboo connected woth the use of magic |
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Alicat Member Elite
since 1999-05-23
Posts 4094Coastal Texas |
Well, it's a right bugger when I come to realizations, that being Mexico is already doing what they have to do to secure their own borders from incursions. Mexico has a very strict immigration policy and you really can't do anything without at least a voter's registration card. Due to freedom of choice, those who wish to leave Mexico can do so, and the government cannot stop them. Their border patrol, like ours, polices those wishing to enter their country, only they are a bit more effective due to posting their military on their borders, especially with Guatamala. They protect their borders from illegal entry. The onus is on the US to do the same. If President Fox cracked down on those trying to leave, Mexico would no longer have a democratic government, but a despotic or authoritarian one. Just look back in history and see those countries that had strict controls on who could leave, and then look at the government type. |
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Not A Poet Member Elite
since 1999-11-03
Posts 3885Oklahoma, USA |
Good point. |
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