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Huan Yi
Member Ascendant
since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


0 posted 03-07-2005 09:27 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi


“The 48-year-old firefighter from La Crosse has proposed that hunters in Wisconsin make free-roaming domestic cats an "unprotected species" that could be shot at will by anyone with a small-game license. . .

University of Wisconsin-Madison wildlife ecology professor Stanley Temple, who trapped more than 100 cats and analyzed their stomach contents during a four-year study, has estimated that between 7.8 million and 219 million birds are killed by rural cats in Wisconsin each year. ‘

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,149659,00.html


Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 08-02-99
Posts 9130
Purgatorial Incarceration


1 posted 03-07-2005 10:16 PM       View Profile for Christopher   Email Christopher   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Christopher

quote:
has estimated that between 7.8 million and 219 million birds are killed by rural cats in Wisconsin each year.
quote:
(number of rural cats) x (number of kills/cat/year) x (% of kills that are birds).
Gotta love this formula. It's almost scientific. They've narrowed it down to a margin of only 211 million. (Glad they don't do my taxes.)
quote:
"If they are not a pet, if somebody doesn't claim ownership, they become a nonnative wildlife species and not entitled to protection by the state," he said.
Does this include the hunter as well? If so...
quote:
Smith's proposal has horrified cat lovers, but is seen by others as a way to stop cats from killing wild birds.
Which is what it really comes down to - who has more political power: cat lovers or people who like to shoot things? (I'd guess the former if asked).

If people were truly concerned about the cats over-grazing the bird population and weren't just interested in being able to get away with shooting small, non-threatening, non-edible (mostly) animals, they'd focus on spaying/neutering the cats and implementing fines for people who own pets and allow them to run in the wild while still fertile.

Truthfully, I think the idea's a lame excuse for target practice.

egowhores.com - really love yourself.
Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 05-19-99
Posts 9708
Michigan, US


2 posted 03-07-2005 11:03 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

Man always seems to think he can improve on Nature.

Take, for example, the introduction to America of the house sparrow and starling, both birds from Europe, both ostensibly released here to control insects. Unfortunately, both are also very aggressive birds, competing for the same nesting cavities as our native songbirds. Not only do they displace the less aggressive native species, but both will even enter an established nest and destroy the eggs or kill the nestlings. In large part because of incidents like this (pictures not for the faint of heart), eastern bluebirds almost disappeared from North America by the late Seventies, and it is only recently they are making a comeback (thanks to organizations like the North American Bluebird Society).

Cats are a problem. I keep a garden hose handy during the summer months, and very actively discourage cats from spending much time in my yard. However, while cats are a danger to the birds frequenting my feeders, they are a natural danger that will inevitably result in smarter, faster, stronger birds. I don't think we should encourage predation, but neither do I think we should interfere with it.

Cats, after all, aren't very likely to wipe out whole species of birds . . . which CAN happen when Man gets it into his head to improve on the ways of Nature.
LeeJ
Member Patricius
since 06-19-2003
Posts 13093
SE PA


3 posted 03-08-2005 09:08 AM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

well here I go, sticking my nose into this one.

Guys, household cats not only kill birds, but they kill rabbits, and small game....and are responsible for millions of these animals deaths each year...it is very vivid and true

I don't think cats ought to be open game...but, they're owners should be....

I'm so tired of someone else's cat coming over in our freshly tilled garden and poopin in it...

Just b/c you have a cat, doesn't mean it should be running loose, digging in all your neighbors gardens...killing baby rabbits, quail, phesants, chipmonks, squirrels.... that are born on my property....believe me, they do.  A few years ago, The Game News put out a study and numbers of game killed by ordinary housecats...it was astronomical...they are in fact, preditors

I've seen it all, and cat owners, to me, ...are just like dog owners, who allow their dogs to run free all over everyone elses properties....unthinking and disrespectful...unsanitary...can't tell you how many flowers and veggies they've dug up and bushes they've ruined...from spraying, not to mention that God awful smell...

We're no longer a farm community living in the early 1900's, living 10 miles from your nearest neighbor.

Animal owners have a responsibility to themselves, their community, and their animals, cats alike...if you can't keep them penned up, then don't have them...cuz to tell you the truth, I'm real sick of all our neighbors cats (5 of them) doing their business in & against all our shrubs and flower gardens...not to mention the awful smell, from a male cat spraying...& the little presents they leave in the ground, that I stick my hands in....ugh...boy oh boy, that makes me sick and angry...


If you have a pet, you owe it to your community to keep it on "your" property, contained and leashed or fenced in...and I can tell you, I've really grown to dislike cats, but their owners even more.

Now I'm not attacking anyone who keeps their cats in the house...not in the least...but there are more irresponsible cat owners then responsible

...and I'm tired of cleaning up cat poop in our yard, in our garage, in our gardens, even in my mint tea and herb garden????

Sheeesh, I can't for one moment understand the concept of these people, allowing their cats loose????  With no regard for the property of others????  Its the unsanitary part I don't like...animal owners allowing their animals to poop over other peoples property.  Gwad??????

If you own an animal, no matter what kind...please keep it out of my yard and barn....hey, that would make a hysterical poem, wouldn't it.  

All kidding aside folks, in that very second, when I'm gardening...and I don't wear gloves...and my hand reaches in a pile of you know what, I could go open game on all our neighborhood cats....not to mention, ballistic on their owners

Thats my take on this subject...if you own an animal, keep it on your own property...bottom line

[This message has been edited by LeeJ (03-08-2005 11:49 AM).]

Janet Marie
Member Laureate
since 01-22-2000
Posts 18986


4 posted 03-08-2005 12:18 PM       View Profile for Janet Marie   Email Janet Marie   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Janet Marie

Well now, this possibility opens lots of doors doesnt it.?

Ya know...
I really get peeved when kids cut thru my yard....
and I really hate when the neighbor teens block traffic skateboarding...
and man I really get steamed when I am  woke up at 2am by one of my neighbors driving by with their bass blaring boom radios blasting...and then there are all those new cars with the really LOUD mufflers deliberlately installed to MAKE THE NOISE...
I have been woke up several time this week by one of my neighbors doing his version of "Fast and Furious" in the middle of the night.....

WOW...maybe I should go put up a bill that I can start shooting things in my subdivision that tick me off!!!

Sheesh... get a grip....  


The cats are simply doing what was BORN to them by instinct...the same thing that their relatives the tigers and lions do. Funny how some sit and watch National Geographic in awe of the big cats hunting prowess. SO? Shall we blow all them away to extinction too? OH WAIT... thats already been done... (right along with the wolf/coyote)
Silly me how could I forget.

How is it that the cats life becomes less valuable than the birds, rabbits or squirrels?
Feline holocost?


Yeah..this is JUST what we need...someone with guns killing neighborhood cats in back yards while our children play close by.

The saftey issues here alone make this whole premise a sad joke to even consider being a reality.

Wouldnt it make more sense to pass stricter legislation to control the pet owners???
OH-- but wheres the fun in that? No guns involved and no permission to shoot and kill things.  


sheesh... I will never get gun mentality...and I just dont get when people look for permission to " go postal" over something that peeves them off.


and Ron?  Thank you.......

quote:
Cats, after all, aren't very likely to wipe out whole species of birds . . . which CAN happen when Man gets it into his head to improve on the ways of Nature.



amen... AMEN.
Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 08-02-99
Posts 9130
Purgatorial Incarceration


5 posted 03-08-2005 02:42 PM       View Profile for Christopher   Email Christopher   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Christopher

That's what I was saying, JM - they are looking for justification to shoot things.

If this guy were so concerned over the birds being killed at the bird house he's put up... he'd take the damned thing down since all it equates to is Cat-Language for an "All you can eat diner" billboard.

egowhores.com - really love yourself.

wandering glider
Senior Member
since 04-04-2001
Posts 504
aloft


6 posted 03-08-2005 05:38 PM       View Profile for wandering glider   Email wandering glider   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for wandering glider

Huan Yi

You must get a kick out of this.

Toss out a contentious Fox News bit and then watch the thread fill up with oh-yas, rants, tangents and half-baked ideas.  It brings 'em out of the woodwork, doesn't it?
I don't see the humor in it, frankly, but I do learn a lot about what people think they know and what they don't know, and that's sometimes just sad.

But to the point, there is a Cats Indoors program of some interest.

Or, to follow the lunacy developing in this thread, how about if we relax the dog leash laws and let the family hound exercise a little "evolution" on the other guy's feline?  I can just hear the birds all atwitter!


glider
Huan Yi
Member Ascendant
since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


7 posted 03-08-2005 08:45 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

I do think it's a fact.

There are plenty of cat lovers who would try to feed their pets
better than their children, (gourmet this and gourmet that);
and yet a cat is still a cat.   As a child I remember our cat Green Eyes
was always bringing something from his hunts regardless of how
well the bowl was filled.

Now you have a conflict; the cat and his prey
and their respective devotees.

Ron is only right as far as one of the possible outcomes.
Another is that a bird species could be brought to a point
where they cannot survive.   So what do you do?


Me?  I liked Green Eyes.
LeeJ
Member Patricius
since 06-19-2003
Posts 13093
SE PA


8 posted 03-09-2005 06:52 AM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

Pets are our friends...but somewhere along that spectrum, people...must assume responsibility...sorry to stain my image here, but years ago, I used to hunt...and am still a fisher lady...then I read many articles...ohhhh, going back about 23 years...there was in fact, an article in The Game News on this very subject...I cannot remember the statistics of wildlife preyed upon by housecats, but...they were, I assure you astounding...

Since then, our pet population has increased extremely....and to me, this is not a silly subject.  I've owned animals all my life, horses, dogs, yes, even cats...but...they were always contained and kept on our property.  I'm not kidding or being aloof, or laying down exhagerated issues....in one community I lived in...our entire community went to court over this very same subject...due to a neglegent pet owner...even the judge was astounded by the frustration of an entire community showing up against one particular neighbor who deemed public property his and his animals, including dogs and several cats.

Yes, animals will most certainly do what they do, but in the same, due to such a high velocity of pets, pet owners should assume responsiblity for their do do.  hehe

Is this a ridiculous subject...I don't think so...after my 87 year old mom has lived on her property now for 50 years...she's been severely bitten by a neighbors dog...twice, who ran under our gate an onto our property, the one bite required 18 stitches...she was alone and had to call for help...and while petting a neighbors cat, was scratched by it, so badly, she had to go to the hospital due to an infection in her hand.  It swelled so much so, she couldn't fold her fingers or bend her hand.  She never said a thing to these neighbors what they're pets had done.

She's a kind woman and a peace lover, and would never say a harsh word to anyone, even if they're pets presented a problem...I'm the one who says, she shouldn't have to put up with such irresponsible pet owners...and I deem it sad, that courtesy and respect for neighbors has been lost...it's an irritant of sorts and again...very unsanitary...

When an old woman admires her garden, so much so, that she puts many hours everyday during the summer months into it...quite frankly, I feel bad that she has to put up with cleaning up our neighbor's cat's do do?  And she never complains...I'm the one who deems this an infringment upon her life.  It makes her sad, when those same cats lay in her garden and break her flowers, so she trys putting wire mesh down all over the gardens to detere them from digging and doing their business.  

Yes, this may sound silly to you, and perhaps a small thing...I'll agree...and yet, when I watch her, this old woman, working so hard in her garden, it becomes an irratent that she's made to experience this absurdity.  

This is more of a problem then I believe some of you might realize...and it'not isolated to birds...and yes, that is why we do not have bird feeders, when my mom broke her hip, I wanted to give her something nice to look at, and so, not thinking about the cats, got her a birdfeeder, so she could sit and occupy her time with a little bit of nature..what a mistake that was...I quickly removed the feeders....and you know what, funny as it may seem to you guys, that stupid inexpensive bird feeder gave her joy, until the neighbors cats came on our property, under our fence, and stalked and killed some little finches.  Not a nice thing to watch, if your an old woman, with a love for nature and very naieve.  

but, well, read the links I've posted and conclude...

My best....Lee J.


http://www.owra.org/cateffect.htm  

http://wildlife.wisc.edu/extension/catfly3.htm
Juju
Member Elite
since 12-29-2003
Posts 3353
In your dreams


9 posted 03-14-2005 11:23 PM       View Profile for Juju   Email Juju   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Juju's Home Page   View IP for Juju

Your title is sidistic.

Juju - 1.) a magic charm or fetish 2.)Magic 3.)A taboo connected woth the use of magic

The dictionary never lies.... I am magical (;

 
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