How to Join Member's Area Private Library Search Today's Topics p Login
Main Forums Discussion Tech Talk Mature Content Archives
   Nav Win
 The Alley
 Where is the outrage?   [ Page: 1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10  ]
 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238
Follow us on Facebook

 Moderated by: Ron   (Admins )

User Options
Format for Better Printing EMail to a Friend Not Available
Admin Print Send ECard
Passions in Poetry

Where is the outrage?

 Post A Reply Post New Topic   Go to the Next Oldest/Previous Topic Return to Topic Page Go to the Next Newest Topic 
Member Seraphic
since 08-22-99
Posts 23002

225 posted 04-05-2005 10:42 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

I just caught a portion of Terri's funeral. Some kind soul sent his Purple Heart medal for Terri, that her brother held up for everyone to see. A very touching tribute.
Member Seraphic
since 08-22-99
Posts 23002

226 posted 04-06-2005 12:26 AM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

My kind of liberal:

I will be returning to the legacy of Terri Schiavo in the weeks ahead because there will certainly be long-term reverberations from this case and its fracturing of the rule of law in the Florida courts and then the federal courts—as well as the disgracefully ignorant coverage of the case by the great majority of the media, including such pillars of the trade as The New York Times, The Washington Post, The Miami Herald, and the Los Angeles Times as they copied each other's misinformation, like Terri Schiavo being "in a persistent vegetative state."

Do you know that nearly every major disability rights organization in the country has filed a legal brief in support of Terri's right to live?

But before I go back to other Liberty Beats—the CIA's torture renditions and the whitewashing of the landmark ACLU and Human Rights First's lawsuit against Donald Rumsfeld for his accountability in the widespread abuse of detainees, including evidence of torture—I must correct the media and various "qualified experts" on how a person dies of dehydration if he or she is sentient, as Terri Schiavo demonstrably is.

On March 15's Nightline, in an appallingly one-sided, distorted account of the Schiavo case, Terri's husband, Michael—who'd like to marry the woman he's now living with—said that once Terri's feeding tube is removed at his insistent command, Terri "will drift off into a nice little sleep and eventually pass on and be with God."

As an atheist, I cannot speak to what he describes as his abandoned wife's ultimate destination, but I can tell how Wesley Smith (consultant to the Center for Bioethics and Culture)—whom I often consult on these bitterly controversial cases because of his carefully researched books and articles—describes death by dehydration.

In his book Forced Exit (Times Books), Wesley quotes neurologist William Burke: "A conscious person would feel it [dehydration] just as you and I would. . . . Their skin cracks, their tongue cracks, their lips crack. They may have nosebleeds because of the drying of the mucous membranes, and heaving and vomiting might ensue because of the drying out of the stomach lining.

"They feel the pangs of hunger and thirst. Imagine going one day without a glass of water! . . . It is an extremely agonizing death."

On March 23, outside the hospice where Terri Schiavo was growing steadily weaker, her mother, Mary, said to the courts and to anyone who would listen and maybe somehow save her daughter:
"Please stop this cruelty!"

While this cruelty was going on in the hospice, Michael Schiavo's serpentine lawyer, George Felos, said to one and all: "Terri is stable, peaceful, and calm. . . . She looked beautiful."

During the March 21 hearing before Federal Judge James D. Whittemore, who was soon to be another accomplice in the dehydration of Terri, the relentless Mr. Felos, anticipating the end of the deathwatch, said to the judge:
"Yes, life is sacred, but so is liberty, your honor, especially in this country."

It would be useless, but nonetheless, I would like to inform George Felos that, as Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas said: "The history of liberty is the history of due process"—fundamental fairness.

Contrary to what you've read and seen in most of the media, due process has been lethally absent in Terri Schiavo's long merciless journey through the American court system.

"As to legal concerns," writes William Anderson—a senior psychiatrist at Massachusetts General Hospital and a lecturer at Harvard University—"a guardian may refuse any medical treatment, but drinking water is not such a procedure. It is not within the power of a guardian to withhold, and not in the power of a rational court to prohibit."

Ralph Nader agrees. In a statement on March 24, he and Wesley Smith (author of, among other books, Culture of Death: The Assault of Medical Ethics in America) said: "The court is imposing process over justice. After the first trial [before Judge Greer], much evidence has been produced that should allow for a new trial—which was the point of the hasty federal legislation.

"If this were a death penalty case, this evidence would demand reconsideration. Yet, an innocent, disabled woman is receiving less justice. . . . This case is rife with doubt. Justice demands that Terri be permitted to live."

But the polls around the country cried out that a considerable majority of Americans wanted her to die without Congress butting in.

A March 20 ABC poll showed that 60 percent of the 501 adults consulted opposed the ultimately unsuccessful federal legislation, and only 35 percent approved. Moreover, 70 percent felt strongly that it was wrong for Congress to get into such personal, private matters—and interfere with what some advocates of euthanasia call "death with dignity." (So much for the Fourteenth Amendment's guarantee of due process and equal protection of the laws.)

But, as Cathy Cleaver Ruse of the Secretariat for Pro-Life Activities of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops pointed out:
"The poll [questions] say she's 'on life support,' which is not true [since all she needs is water], and that she has 'no consciousness,' which her family and dozens of doctors dispute in sworn affidavits."

Many readers of this column are pro-choice, pro-abortion rights. But what choice did Terri Schiavo have under our vaunted rule of law—which the president is eagerly trying to export to the rest of the world? She had not left a living will or a durable power of attorney, and so could not speak for herself. But the American system of justice would not slake her thirst as she, on television, was dying in front of us all.

What kind of a nation are we becoming? The CIA outsources torture—in violation of American and international law—in the name of the freedoms we are fighting to protect against terrorism. And we have watched as this woman, whose only crime is that she is disabled, is tortured to death by judges, all the way to the Supreme Court.

And keep in mind from the Ralph Nader-Wesley Smith report: "The courts . . . have [also] ordered that no attempts be made to provide her water or food by mouth. Terri swallows her own saliva. Spoon feeding is not medical treatment. This outrageous order proves that the courts are not merely permitting medical treatment to be withheld, they have ordered her to be made dead."

In this country, even condemned serial killers are not executed in this way.,hentoff,62489,6.html
Member Seraphic
since 08-22-99
Posts 23002

227 posted 04-07-2005 09:00 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Here is an article that explains the difference between Living Will and Will to Live Documents, with a link at the bottom to request a Will to Live. You can also get one from the National Right to Life site and from any Catholic church.

Terri's brother and sister will be on Hannity and Colmes, which starts now, 9PM Eastern.
Member Caelestus
since 06-25-99
Posts 67715
Listening to every heart

228 posted 04-08-2005 01:29 PM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine


Here's a flip side to the controversy.

Member Seraphic
since 08-22-99
Posts 23002

229 posted 04-09-2005 12:40 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

April 2, 2005

The volunteers with the Terri Schindler-Schiavo Foundation join today in mourning with the Schindler family over the loss of their beloved daughter and sister. We firmly believe that justice was not realized in Terri's case and that her death represents both a waste of precious, human life and a tragic failing of one of America's vulnerable citizens.

Throughout this ordeal, the volunteers of Terri's Foundation have served as a tremendous public service to others by raising awareness of her situation and the dangerous precedent it presents.

People from all walks of life have stood with the Schindler family in their efforts to protect Terri Schiavo from a forced death of dehydration and starvation. Many pledged their time, thousands contacted lawmakers and countless individuals kept her story alive across the internet and in communities throughout the world.

In spite of their efforts, many join us now in grief at the loss of a precious person who has been so miserably failed by the system that should have protected her.

In her honor, we must continue our efforts.

Accountability must be demanded of the Judiciary. It is thought by many that guardianship laws of Florida have long been overlooked by the circuit judge presiding over Terri's case. If so, this judge must be held accountable for his actions.

It is also thought that Terri's case presents a dangerous case law that could allow deprivation deaths to be forced upon disabled, elderly and chronically ill individuals more easily. It is time to reexamine the laws so that adequate protections for our vulnerable members of society can be enacted.

Terri's story is not one of a family feud. Rather, it is one of how our system has failed to protect the members of our communities who need protection the most. We must take it upon ourselves to help educate society about the struggles of profoundly disabled people so that their lives and liberties are valued and so they are not made the victim of extreme prejudice.

In the coming weeks, the Terri Schindler-Schiavo Foundation will present a course of action that addresses these issues. We do not seek to interfere in the personal choices of the individual. Rather, we seek to protect those who can fall victim to the whims of others and the hands of judges.

Please be certain to check back soon for information and details of how you can help. If you would like to be updated via email, please contact us here:   Note: Your email address will not be shared with any third party.

On behalf of the Terri Schindler-Schiavo Foundation, we thank all those who dedicated their time, their prayers and their lives to protecting the life and liberty of Terri.

Our job is far from done.

Member Seraphic
since 08-22-99
Posts 23002

230 posted 04-09-2005 01:13 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Krugman wraps up with the real point of his piece. “America isn’t yet a place where liberal politicians, and even conservatives who aren’t sufficiently hard-line, fear assassination. But unless moderates take a stand against the growing power of domestic extremists, it can happen here.”

What flawless logic. If we hadn’t starved a particular woman in Florida to death, every liberal politician could have been at risk of being murdered. Krugman is engaged in a clever attempt to deflect attention away from the death of one particular woman by bringing up the frightening specter of the future deaths of unnamed prominent people.

Speaking of death, let’s play a thought experiment. What if, instead of pulling Terri Schiavo’s feeding tube, Judge George Greer or her husband Michael had walked into her hospice room on March 18 and injected her with a lethal dose of morphine.

For Terri, the outcome would be the same, although she certainly would have been spared needless suffering. However, for the injector, the outcome would be much different. He’d probably be in jail today, charged with murder.

To review: A woman’s only source of food and water was shut off until she died. And, because a judge ordered it, it’s all nice and legal.

Everyone is against killing, even -- and in this case, especially -- the people Krugman calls “extremists.” They were the ones who wanted to keep feeding Terri. It’s the person he considers a non-extremist -- Judge Greer -- who directly caused Terri Schiavo’s death.

Liberal politicians need not fear for their lives. Unless, that is, they get sick and require a feeding tube. In that case, it’ll be conservative “extremists,” not the Paul Krugman’s of the world, who are most likely to fight to keep them alive. How ironic.
Member Seraphic
since 08-22-99
Posts 23002

231 posted 04-11-2005 11:25 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Notice the progressive change in language, the parts I underlined, used by Judge Greer in his successive ORDERS:

Feb. 11, 2000 original order to remove Terri's feeding tube:

ORDERED AND ADJUDGED that the Petition for Authorization to Discontinue Artificial Life Support of Michael Schiavo, Guardian of the Person of Theresa Marie Schiavo, an incapacitated person, be and the same is hereby GRANTED and Petitioner/Guardian is hereby authorized to proceed with the discontinuance of said artificial life support for Theresa Marie Schiavo.

November 22, 2002 court order:

FURTHER ORDERED AND ADJUDGED that Michael Schiavo, as Guardian of the Person of Theresa Marie Schiavo, shall withdraw or cause to be withdrawn the artificial life-support (hydration and nutrition tube) from Theresa Marie Schiavo at 3:00 p.m. on January 3, 2003.

September 17, 2003 court order:

ORDERED AND ADJUDGED that the Guardian, Michael Schiavo, shall cause the removal of the nutrition and hydration tube from the Ward, Theresa Marie Schiavo, at 2:00 p.m. on the 15th day of October, 2003.

February 25, 2005 court order:

ORDERED AND ADJUDGED that absent a stay from the appellate courts, the guardian, Michael Schiavo, shall cause the removal of nutrition and hydration, from the Ward, THERESA SCHIAVO, at 1:00 p.m. on Friday, March 18, 2005.

His last order does not distinguish between artificial and natural nutrition and hydration, but is an ORDER to withhold ALL nutrition and hydraton, artificial or natural(which he later affirmed when the parents petitioned to attempt to feed and hydrate her naturally), a clear violation of the following statute. He would have been within the current reading of the law if he had not forbidden all nutrition and hydration, and only permitted the withdrawal of the feeding tube. Terri wasn't dying and what he did could not be construed, by any stretch of the imagination, as simply allowing the natural process of dying.

765.309 Florida Statute: Mercy Killing of Euthanasia Not Authorized; Suicide Distinguished. -- (1) Nothing in this chapter shall be construed to condone, authorize, or approve mercy killing or euthanasia, or to permit any affirmative or deliberate act of omission to end the life other than to permit the natural process of dying. (2) The withholding or withdrawal of life-prolonging procedures from a patient in accordance with any provision of this chapter does not, for any purpose, constitute a suicide.

Member Elite
since 12-29-2003
Posts 3353
In your dreams

232 posted 04-12-2005 02:27 AM       View Profile for Juju   Email Juju   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Juju's Home Page   View IP for Juju

Well Some one wanted her dead. (rolling eyes)
You see it gets bad when a judge says you cant feed some one naturally.

Juju - 1.) a magic charm or fetish 2.)Magic 3.)A taboo connected woth the use of magic

The dictionary never lies.... I am magical (;

Member Seraphic
since 08-22-99
Posts 23002

233 posted 04-14-2005 10:00 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Very bad, Juju. Illegal.

It seems that there is even a Catholic version of the Living Will that is just as vague as what some call the secular type of Living Wills, and therefore just as dangerous. So, if you want your rights protected as much as possible, get a Will to Live document.

This article explains it. It's sad that we have come to the point where you have to affirm in writing your wishes to not be denied life saving treatments, medicines, measures, etc. And in some cases, despite what you have written, as we have see with Granny Mae, some may still not honor your written wishes.

But it's best to protect yourself by writing down, explicitly, what you want, and to be very careful of what you sign. You can't trust that something is really what you think it is just because it is Catholic.
Marge Tindal
Deputy Moderator 5 ToursDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Empyrean
since 11-06-1999
Posts 43042
Florida's Foreverly Shores

234 posted 04-17-2005 01:08 PM       View Profile for Marge Tindal   Email Marge Tindal   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Marge Tindal's Home Page   View IP for Marge Tindal

Respectively remembering Terri on this day and in ALL the days ahead~
She was TOO IMPORTANT to drop off the pages of the newspapers just because she was inhumanely and judically murdered by the system by starvation and dehydration~

I'd like to encourage those concerned about the inhumanity of what happened to Terri to CONTINUE HER FIGHT FOR LIFE~

May all those involved in her murder be brought to justice in my time~
Member Seraphic
since 08-22-99
Posts 23002

235 posted 04-17-2005 05:27 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Thanks, Marge. Those who do see the inhumanity of what was done, and the injustice, will continue to fight for the right to life for the weakest members of our society, and will mount a concerted effort to bring to justice all those involved in this particular case.

I was perplexed at the choosing of Terri for the test case of the right-to-die of people who are not terminally ill nor in an irreversible coma, and who have no written advance directive. It would have been much less controversial if they had chosen someone who was actually on life support, hooked up to machines that were doing the work of her lungs and heart, or someone who was actually in a verifiable coma state or PVS state. I think they chose her precisely because her situation would be controversial, and in prevailing in her situation, as they knew they would with the backing of the corrupt officials and judges, and the backing of the ACLU (and Felos was an ACLU attorney in the past...surprise, surprise), the precedent that would be set would be so much more valuable to them for future cases. If they could kill someone like Terri, afterall, they could certainly 'justifiably' kill others much worse off than she was without much resistence. For shock value, more than anything else, I think they chose her to test the waters of public opinion regarding the forced ending of the life of a 'deficient' person. And I think most people were shell-shocked and their minds simply couldn't let them fully realize the gravity of what was actually happening. I think a lot of people justified it by choosing to believe that she wasn't really 'there' anyway, or why else would someone be trying to 'let her die' (but they didn't 'let her die', they starved and dehydrated her, deliberately, in order to 'make her dead', she wasn't dying of anything else prior to that).

Here is an interesting article that sheds a little light onto Judge Greer:
Member Seraphic
since 08-22-99
Posts 23002

236 posted 04-17-2005 08:16 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

If anyone here is interested in doing something further, whether they be conservative, liberal, or middle-of-the-roader, and since it seems that nothing is going to be done on the State level, you can email the US Attorney General, Alberto Gonzales, and ask that the Justice Department conduct a full investigation into all aspects surrounding the Schiavo matter at:

Senior Member
since 05-27-2001
Posts 1693
Ohio, USA

237 posted 04-19-2005 07:55 AM       View Profile for hush   Email hush   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for hush

Look, despite the complications of this case, I really don't think it's a nationwide conspiracy to kill off the weak and sick... she wasn't wanted dead by everyone because she was an inconvenience, she was wanted dead by her husband either for ulterior motives or because he honestly felt she wouldn't want to be kept alive. It just got blown up to a national focus because of the great deal of controversy.
Member Seraphic
since 08-22-99
Posts 23002

238 posted 04-22-2005 06:10 AM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Please pray for Baby Charlotte. The British Courts have decided that if she needs to be resuscitated again, she can't be.
 Post A Reply Post New Topic   Go to the Next Oldest/Previous Topic Return to Topic Page Go to the Next Newest Topic 
All times are ET (US) Top
  User Options
>> Discussion >> The Alley >> Where is the outrage?   [ Page: 1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10  ] Format for Better Printing EMail to a Friend Not Available
Print Send ECard


pipTalk Home Page | Main Poetry Forums

How to Join | Member's Area / Help | Private Library | Search | Contact Us | Today's Topics | Login
Discussion | Tech Talk | Archives | Sanctuary

© Passions in Poetry and 1998-2013
All Poetry and Prose is copyrighted by the individual authors