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Dean and the DNC

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vlraynes
Member Rara Avis
since 07-25-2000
Posts 9136
Somewhere... out there...


50 posted 05-10-2005 11:08 AM       View Profile for vlraynes   Email vlraynes   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit vlraynes's Home Page   View IP for vlraynes

"Believe me, you do not want to do this."

I'm not sure what you're implying with the above comment... but yes, Brad... I believe I do want to do 'this'.  If I hadn't wanted to, I wouldn't have.

I'm not sure what your definition of 'this' is, within the context of this thread, but all that I have done is to question your treatment of others... nothing more, nothing less.

You see, Brad... I respect you as a fellow human being, but your comments no longer scare or intimidate me.  It's true that they used to, but no more.

I never asked that you 'leave'.  In my opinion, that solves little.

Oh... and for the record?... regardless of my interest in or knowledge of a given topic, I AM 'worth the time'... as are you.

Have a nice day, Brad.
Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


51 posted 05-10-2005 07:12 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Okay.

Did or didn't Mike read the quote in question mistakenly?

For the record, I have read many things in my life mistakenly.

Why was there no mention of the second earthquake in SE Asia?

I didn't post on that either.

Why do people pretend to be above politics and then make a political statement?

I've probably done that somewhere, I just can't remember where (Still another fault.)

Do you or do you not see a succession of names in this forum that snowball from criticism to demonization?

The Ward Churchill thread and the Kofi Annan thread are two examples.

I know I've contributed to this mess.  Perhaps that's why I want to fix it (Okay, I'm frustrated and want to run away at the same time.) You're probably right that I went about it the wrong way, but until I see your name protesting the Abu Gharib scandal, it's hard for me to take your concern for other humans seriously. I have no doubt you're concerned with yourself and with people that  you consider your friends and that is something to be admired, you may have a cause or two that you contribute to, but don't elevate that to a level that no one can hope to attain.

Why, when someone feels slighted, do they think that all the rules of courtesy and propriety disappear?

Verdict on Brad: guilty.

Where have I actually called anyone names?

I have before, but I can't recall using 'idiot' 'ignorant' or any other words recently that directly question someone's character.

I may have, I just can't remember. But if I have does that justify the reversal?

---------

Is there any substance to any of the criticisms I've made?

You're criticizing the way I've gone about things. Fine. But I don't see how that relieves you of the responsibility to address what we are talking about.  Without that, it sounds more like you don't want to hear someone who disagrees with you or your friends and less a true concern with the respect of others.

For when you wake up in the morning you're still going to go about your life in exactly the same way you did yesterday whether you have respect for people as people or whether you hate them as LoveBug said in the Schiavo thread.
Local Rebel
Member Ascendant
since 12-21-1999
Posts 5742
Southern Abstentia


52 posted 05-10-2005 11:34 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

quote:

Dean is not where he is at because he is articulate, makes sense, or holds consistent opinions.



I'm not going to say you're wrong Tim -- but I think that in fairness I would have to say you're only partially right.  Dean articulates consistent opinions that make sense to those partisans who happen to agree with him.   And, I will stipulate that he makes a lot of gaffes and blunders -- but that was certainly true for 41, Dan Quale, and G.W.  too -- and then there was the pratfall President -- Gerry.

Certainly his statement in question of the current discussion was very shrewdly calculated so that he could appeal to those who would interpret it from extreme to moderate meanings.  So I don't think it marks him as an idiot.   But, Brad's statement "Somebody would have pointed out that Iraq was a security problem already, everybody thought Iraq was a security problem anyway, and it doesn't matter because Iraq was always potentially a security threat." illustrates how hard it is to defend any particular interpretation one may choose to hold -- which is why I'm glad I don't have to shill for anybody.

I haven't seen Dean showing up on Sunday morning though -- or any of the weekly shout shows -- so apparently he is settling in for a more traditional role - which is what he should do -- they really only need to trot him out if, say, Nancy Pelosi gets in trouble with the House Ethics Committee over travel reimbursement issues.

Reid does seem to be stepping up to the plate more now.  But being the attack dog doesn't mean he's supposed to attack the President, he's supposed to attack the policy -- but -- he did what someone is supposed to do when going over the line -- which is to both acknowledge it as such and then apologize for it  
http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2005/May-06-Fri-2005/news/reid.html.  
He needs to study one of my favorite guys more -- Bob Dole, Bob Dole, Bob Dole-- who was the master at attacking and smiling about it -- can't wait to read his new book.

Point of order for Brad, Deere, and Vicki:

I think it has been well established, both in the legal system of the U.S. and within the generally accepted code of conduct in these forums, that celebrities, public officials, would-be public officials, et al are open to a different standard of criticism than what an ordinary citizen or forum participant would.

I've certainly issued the word 'moron' at least twice in regard to the sitting President -- so I don't think Deere crossed any lines with idiot.  (And I don't think there's any danger of someone thinking that I'm just trying to agree with my friend -- have Mike and I ever held anything back?  (But we're still friends I think)).

At the same time -- if Brad has the desire to try to see the tone of the forums be a bit more temperate then it's surely within his right to try to affect that change -- as it is Vicki's right to influence Brad's temperment if she sees fit to do so.

There were a couple of posts that hit the cutting room floor (as well they should) that I was referring to when I made the previous post about moderators -- I've seen a few of mine fall into electron heaps in the distant past too -- I don't think it's a big deal.  

This makes me glad that I'm not a moderator -- but if I was one -- I'd say -- I don't think any of you has anything to gain by pushing this line of contention any further, and that you all have lots to lose.  And that's something that would be terribly unfortunate.
Balladeer
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since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


53 posted 05-10-2005 11:50 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

LR...no, we haven't and yes, we are.

Your final line sums it up well, I think. Everyone has expressed their thoughts and moving on wouldn't be a bad idea...
vlraynes
Member Rara Avis
since 07-25-2000
Posts 9136
Somewhere... out there...


54 posted 05-11-2005 12:38 AM       View Profile for vlraynes   Email vlraynes   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit vlraynes's Home Page   View IP for vlraynes

LR and 'Deer?...  out of respect for you both, as well as your expressed desire that I 'move on', I won't bother to further defend my position.

Those who know me, know where my heart is... and "I" know that my intentions were, and remain, true and sincere, and that my heart is in the right place... and I suppose that, ultimately, that's all that matters.

Brad...

I do want you to know that none of my comments were intended to start a 'fight' with you, or to make an 'enemy' of you.

As I said earlier, I am not generally a confrontational person.  I don't 'enjoy' confrontation, which is why, even when I do have strong feelings on the topic at hand, I tend to stay out of these types of discussions.

Contrary to what you may think, Brad, I do respect you... not only as a fellow human being, but I also have a great deal of respect for your apparent knowledge on a number of various topics.  I have no doubt that there is much that I, and others, could learn from you.  I'd simply like to be afforded that opportunity, void of the voice of condescension.

Anyway... I've already said more than I intended to say in this post.

Bottom line?... I hope we can move on from this with no hard feelings, but perhaps with a bit more of an understanding of and a mutual respect for one another... because, Brad?... we are ALL worth the time.

Peace, my friend.  



"When the power of love overcomes the love
of power the world will know peace."
--Jimi Hendrix
Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


55 posted 05-11-2005 12:53 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Peace to you, too, Vicky, and I didn't make the statement for "you" to move on but rather that was for all of us. Actually,I admire you greatly for coming out and speaking your mind and standing up for your thoughts, chips falling where they may.

Have a great night....
vlraynes
Member Rara Avis
since 07-25-2000
Posts 9136
Somewhere... out there...


56 posted 05-11-2005 12:55 AM       View Profile for vlraynes   Email vlraynes   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit vlraynes's Home Page   View IP for vlraynes


Thank you, 'deer...

You have a great night too, my friend...
Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


57 posted 05-11-2005 06:45 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Uh, yeah, but, well ...

Irk, ugh, ilk, nilk, smurf, furf.

Okay, guys.

Vicky,

That's exactly what I meant when I said "You don't want to do this." I know you don't. That doesn't mean I'm better than you, it just means, I've been doing 'confrontations' for a lot longer. As Trevor said a long time ago, I'm not smarter than but I can outlast you.

LR, I'm well aware of the law. That's not my concern. My concern is that the persistent use of rhetoric that inflames rather than analyzes, that uses innuendo rather than logical connection, is a recipe for disaster. I see it here everytime I pop in. I see it at National Review, and the WND, in the rhetoric of Ann Coulter and Michael Moore.

I'm always struck by two things: There are times when I think people are attempting two things here, either their attempting the worst forms of 'deconstruction' (that is, deconstruction without any concern for history or intent); or we are returning to the political rhetoric of the nineteenth century.

Neither of these things are good.
vlraynes
Member Rara Avis
since 07-25-2000
Posts 9136
Somewhere... out there...


58 posted 05-11-2005 06:57 PM       View Profile for vlraynes   Email vlraynes   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit vlraynes's Home Page   View IP for vlraynes


Well then, Brad... I guess it's a good thing I didn't consider it a competition.
Ron
Administrator
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since 05-19-99
Posts 9708
Michigan, US


59 posted 05-11-2005 07:37 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
My concern is that the persistent use of rhetoric that inflames rather than analyzes, that uses innuendo rather than logical connection, is a recipe for disaster. I see it here everytime I pop in. I see it at National Review, and the WND, in the rhetoric of Ann Coulter and Michael Moore.

What I fail to understand, Brad, is why you choose to combat your concerns by embracing their cause? Your penchant for innuendo, insinuation and insult dates back to before these blue pages even existed, and has continued throughout much of this thread. As you say, you've been doing confrontation a long time, certainly throughout most of the six years I've known you.

I honestly hope, Brad, you don't test your ability to outlast anyone around here. You'll discover, I promise, that your lasting power isn't nearly as great as you think.
Local Rebel
Member Ascendant
since 12-21-1999
Posts 5742
Southern Abstentia


60 posted 05-11-2005 09:00 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

What's the prize in a contest to see who can spend the most time away from thier kids,  guitar, poetry, books, movies, cooking, exercise, recreation, ....?  
Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


61 posted 05-12-2005 08:36 AM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Sorry, Ron.
 
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