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North Korea

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Huan Yi
Member Ascendant
since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


0 posted 02-10-2005 08:38 AM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi


“North Korea will stay away from talks on its nuclear programme for an "indefinite period", according to the nation's foreign ministry. . .

It added that Pyongyang had "manufactured nukes for self-defence" and would take "a measure to bolster its nuclear weapons arsenal" in order to "protect its ideology, system, freedom and democracy".

This is North Korea's most explicit public assertion that it possesses nuclear weapons. Senior members of the regime have privately spoken about its nuclear capability on several occasions in the past. . .

Condoleezza Rice's description of the isolated nation as an "outpost of tyranny" was also singled out for criticism. . .

In Thursday's statement, Pyongyang also had strong words to say about Japan, which it described as "persistently pursuing its hostile policy toward the DPRK, toeing the US line".

It accused Tokyo of trying to prevent normalised relations by making false claims over the "abduction issue" - an ongoing row about missing Japanese nationals which North Korea admits to having kidnapped in the 1970s and 80s.

Pyongyang claims the issue has now been "settled". . . “

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4252481.stm

So what next?

How about pull out and let South Korea, Japan and China deal
with it?
LeeJ
Member Patricius
since 06-19-2003
Posts 13093
SE PA


1 posted 02-10-2005 08:40 AM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

Not to mention, for the right price, they will also sell those weapons to other countries....

My ohhhh, My!
Alicat
Member Elite
since 05-23-99
Posts 4277
Coastal Texas


2 posted 02-10-2005 10:31 AM       View Profile for Alicat   Email Alicat   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alicat

North Korea has a long history of putting military aspects ahead of domestic aspects.  Apart from arm sales, North Korea doesn't have an ecocomy, nor can it even feed a small portion of the populace.  The only ones who eat well are Kim and his sycophants.  So naturally, they see it as a sign of aggression when the US withholds food and medicine shipments, as if we are obligated by blackmail to continue feeding the North Koreans so that the North Korean government can continue to train up new forces.

They also have a very sordid history of abduction.  South Koreans and Japanese to learn their language, culture, mannerisms and body language for espionage and sabotage in South Korea, Japan, Europe, Philipines and North America.  Basically, anywhere South Koreans and Japanese might be or travel.  And with their policy of 'assimilation', rarely do those abductees return to their native countries.

Kinda funny how in a Communistic culture which despises individualism and personality, the only person allowed to be an individual with a personality is of course the Tyrant.  In a drab and colorless society, the only colors allowed are either for his personality cult or his military.
RSWells
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since 06-17-2001
Posts 2607


3 posted 02-10-2005 05:10 PM       View Profile for RSWells   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for RSWells

Two countries that really do have WMDs are taunting a regime they know is weakened by the ill-advised incursion into WMDless, Al Quidaless and Bin Ladenless Iraq. Iran has twice as many people as Iraq and the whacko who runs N. Korea is just piling on instead of waiting his turn.

Ms Rice saber rattles with the same strange languange and logic we heard prior to the seizure of Iraq's oil fields. Two years next month with little to show but disproven stated motivations. Oil profits at an all time high, yet Iraqis don't benefit from it.

One billion dollars a week! A call for nearly 500 billion more (for Iraq alone where even the rosiest estimates see us mired for two more years) We owe a world more than can be paid, whittle down benefits for needy americans, listen to nonsense about social security so that money too can go to an insane military budget and hear nothing about Bin Laden.

Pakistan has whored WMD all over the Middle East but are Bush's pals, Israel has by far the highest per capita spending on military than even the war like we do but we rushed into Iraq in a cheesy John Wayne imitation and rallyed round an unworthy leader.

Make sure to run down to WalMart and buy up as many China made "we support the troops" magnetic stickers as you can afford.

I'd LMAO but for my four children and will do all I can to refrain from "I told you so's" though when that time comes they'll probably be less listening than before.

POETS AGAINST THE WAR IS REDUNDANT

Mistletoe Angel
Deputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 5 Tours
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since 12-17-2000
Posts 34089
City of Roses


4 posted 02-10-2005 11:11 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

I agree with what Huan Yi suggested as a possible next step, in giving China, Japan and South Korea space to attempt to get North Korea back in the six-party nuclear disarmament talks. We must also acknowledge the worst-case scenario and prepare for international pressure, U.N assistance, etc. if nothing improves very soon. But the key here is, we have to give them some space or they may feel shoved rather than pushed.

This is a threat, and thus we should consider the risks here. There's anxiety that North Korea perhaps has a missile with a wide enough trajectory to hit Hawaii or the West Coast. I believe the best way in approaching this is to not panic and keep control, but certainly we should take this as a degree of threat.

I'm a little vague on the details behind the history of North Korea's nclear program, but I do believe Clinton was at great fault of not pushing for a more serious diplomacy after the 1999 warning, and Bush is at fault as well here for keeping the attention stuck on Iraq with limited peripheral oversight. And I hope now we can get this resolved diplomatically as Bush optimistically hoped for in his State of the Union address, contrasting from the Axis of Evil talks previously. I hope we can stay on the former side of the fence.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton

"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

Mother Teresa

Huan Yi
Member Ascendant
since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


5 posted 02-11-2005 10:22 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

“After hearing the statement by the North Korean foreign ministry, the governor of Tokyo scoffed and openly dared Pyongyang to fire a missile at Japan.”

Some never seem to learn . . .


“The U.S. must simultaneously assure Pyongyang that we have no intention whatever of bringing down their government but that if North Korea does not suspend development of nuclear weapons we will indeed bring down their government. Squaring that circle is the first great test for President Bush's second term and Rice's tenure as secretary of state. If there is an answer short of eventual war, it is by no means clear at this point what it could be.”

http://www.nationalreview.com/karnick/karnick200502110941.asp


How about bugging out?

Brad
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since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


6 posted 02-11-2005 10:40 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Where are you going to pull out of?
Tim
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since 06-08-99
Posts 1801


7 posted 02-12-2005 08:55 AM       View Profile for Tim   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Tim

The imperialistic U.S. pulls out of the Korean peninsula and returns to its pre-WWII isolationist past on the North American continent.

North Korea militarily conquers South Korea and the two countries are united under one flag.

The South Koreans will no longer have the incentive to burn U.S. flags and the downturn in the flag manufacturing export market causes the Chinese economy fits as their balance of trade gets out of kilter.

A rippling effect enters into the world economic markets and a world-wide depression results.

Unemployed U.S. teenagers who have lost their jobs as assistant fry managers at McDonalds no longer have access to video games and the inability to rape, burn and pillage electronically leads to mass teenage hysteria and mental breakdown.

The outlook is not good for the U.S. in a withdrawal from South Korea.
Tim
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since 06-08-99
Posts 1801


8 posted 02-12-2005 09:10 AM       View Profile for Tim   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Tim

The Chinese need to step to the plate as they are the one force that can effectively apply pressure to the North Koreans.

Presidents Carter and Clinton failed in their efforts and it appears for any type of solution to achieved, all of the effected countries need to work together to attempt to deal with the problem.

The six way talks would appear to be the way to go and hopefully a positive result will be achieved.
Huan Yi
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since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


9 posted 02-12-2005 09:43 AM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi


Why should Americans be asked to die for South Korea
again?  If the answer is Japan, well then what about Japan?

Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


10 posted 02-12-2005 03:08 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

What about the troops in Japan? Are they going home to?

Do me a favor, take some time and look at the positions of the American military in the Pacific. How far back do you want to go?

Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


11 posted 02-12-2005 06:17 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

http://slate.com/id/2113389/

One, the agreement ten years ago wasn't a failure unless one counts as a failure any situation that eventually changes.

Two, neither side kept their part of the bargain.

Three, NK says that it will abandon nukes if we keep our side of the bargain.

Four, Bush doesn't want to talk.

Five, NK follows a predictable pattern and this latest round strikes me as much the same.

Six, most analysts of NK argue that isolation is what keeps the chubby, curly haired guy in power. Why not take a China approach. God knows what their doing now isn't working.

Seven, very few people in this country, SK, believe that NK will attack anytime soon. The question is, "why would they?"

Eight, according to reports, the NK people want a war following the logic, "Anything's gotta be better than this."

Nine, To advocate pulling out now shows no understanding of American strategic interests in the region. Furthermore, if one advocates pulling out, you probably don't understand American strategic interests in the Middle East either. Hint, there's a connection, guys!

Ten, nothing else to say right now. Just wanted 10 points.

Tim
Senior Member
since 06-08-99
Posts 1801


12 posted 02-13-2005 12:38 AM       View Profile for Tim   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Tim

http://www.realdemocracy.com/paprchas.htm

I would think it rather obvious we are not going to withdraw from S. Korea, nor should we, but the premise of the left that everything has to be the blame of the U.S. and Bush only gives more resolve to the right and their views...
Balladeer
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since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


13 posted 02-13-2005 01:11 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Four, Bush doesn't want to talk.

Interesting that the same people (not only you, Brad) who complained that Bush did not seek a bigger coalition in Iraq criticize Bush for not dealing with NK one-on-one, instead of dealing with a coalition. Heads he loses, tails he loses. So what's new?
Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


14 posted 02-13-2005 01:16 AM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Tim,

I wish it were obvious. The rest of what you said is a myth.

Mike,

?
Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


15 posted 02-13-2005 01:22 AM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Oh wait, I think I get it.

How is it a contradiction to argue that Bush should have had more international support before invading Iraq and asking Bush to talk mano on mano with NK when that position already has international support?

It only makes sense if you believe the same myth Tim does.

Huan Yi
Member Ascendant
since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


16 posted 02-13-2005 03:36 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

“Seven, very few people in this country, SK, believe that NK will attack anytime soon. The question is, "why would they?"”

Then why should we have troops there?  There aren’t enough to put up an effective
defense and seem to be only there to ensure that one of the consequences of any invasion
is dead Americans justifying greater involvement.   Why shouldn’t South Korea
be solely responsible for its own defense in so far as tactical ground, naval,  and air forces
are concerned?

Tim
Senior Member
since 06-08-99
Posts 1801


17 posted 02-13-2005 04:19 PM       View Profile for Tim   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Tim

lost me totally on that one, and I even enjoy Mythbusters...    *smile*
Balladeer
Administrator
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since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


18 posted 02-13-2005 05:15 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Brad, you're saying that Bush going mano a mano with NK has international support? What do you base that on?

Or are you saying the international community wants Bush to do something but they don't want to get involved?

Democrats MUST want Bush to be part of a multi-national negotiations since that's exactly what they criticized him for not doing in Iraq (discounting the fact that 27 other countries did participate in the coalition, of course)

Or are you saying the UN wants the US to do something solo so they don't have to say they don't want to get involved?...like exactly the opposite of Iraq.

Bush is right in wanting China and Japan be a part of the shennanigans - and I can understand why NK doesn't want that at all.
 
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