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Passions in Poetry

Freedom Of Speech: Under Attack Or On Fire?

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ice
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25 posted 02-10-2005 12:23 AM       View Profile for ice   Email ice   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for ice

I am trying to find, in a speech or statement, where Ward Churchill says that he is affiliated with or is sanctioned by A.I.M.

Or that he claims to be full or part native American.

I have read much about this man in the last couple days, and can find no admission or claim from him that states so.

I did hear his speech, aired tonight on c-span, which was quite invigorating to say the least.

____________ice
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26 posted 02-10-2005 01:43 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Ice, with all due respect, you are not looking too well. I could wallpaper my house with comments by Churchill describing himself as part Indian....if you would like, I'll put several of them here. In the meantime...

"At various times, according to press reports, Churchill has described himself as Cherokee, Keetoowah Cherokee, Muskogee, Creek and most recently Meti. In a note in the online magazine Socialism and Democracy he wrote, ''Although I'm best known by my colonial name, Ward Churchill, the name I prefer is Kenis, an Ojibwe name bestowed by my wife's uncle.'' In biographical blurbs, he is identified as an enrolled member of the United Keetoowah Band of Cherokees. But a senior member of the band with access to tribal enrollment records told Indian Country Today that Churchill is not listed. George Mauldin, tribal clerk in Tahlequah, Okla., told the Rocky Mountain News, ''He's not in the data base at all.''
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27 posted 02-10-2005 11:59 AM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

But, that's just it Ron.

Both the corporate news (Fox News generally) and a number of students at the University of Colorado don't want him to be ignored.

His presentation Tuesday night in promoting the new publication got quite enthusiastic applause and drew over a thousand people. In my short time at the University of Colorado in Boulder, I saw enough special speakers to say that the average auditorium there seats aout 500-750.

And all those seats weren't filled by journalists or bloggists either. A majority of them were Churchill supporters.

Meanwhile, those like Hannity and O'Reilly want Churchill to be fired, and not because of the possibility he lied on his 1980 resume about his ancestry ot tribe, but because he's anti-American in their views and believe someone with opinions like that don't belong in any such profession, period.

I think, in fact, the last thing both his supporters and opponens want is for him to be ignored right now. I agree with you it's time to move on, but I imagine many others would disagree right now.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton

"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

Mother Teresa

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28 posted 02-10-2005 12:38 PM       View Profile for Alicat   Email Alicat   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alicat

In case some forget, falsifying your resume is fraud, which is illegal.  So is falsifying government documents, like his University application.  Free speech and free press are all well and good, but fraud is still illegal, and other professors have been fired for falsifying their resumes, credintials and government applications.  What makes Churchill so special as to not have to pay the consequences of his deceit?
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29 posted 02-10-2005 08:08 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

Alicat, wasn't it you who said in Comment #5 in this thread that even though you were on the opposite side of the political spectrum he is that he shouldn't be fired?

I'm assuming if that's the case, that was probably before the whole ethnicity thing was formed in the discussion by me and Balladeer.

It's probably likely he has lied multiple times about his background. Nevertheless, no one had a problem with it in 1993 when the American Indian Movement fired him. No one had a problem with it in 1994 when that Morning Star Institute letter cited acts of fraud brought about by Churchill, both of which I shared yesterday in this thread. So, my impression here is that many are actually taking his essay as the main excuse in firing him, and it would be silly eleven years after it was made rather clear he wasn't the Cherokee/Creek Indian many believed him before to be.

There's probably a lot we don't know about his past yet. I actually agree with David Horowitz, someone I generally disagree with over 95% of the time, that he shouldn't be fired but there should be an investigation behind how he climbed the ladder in the University of Colorado even beyond 1993 to understand and come to terms how we can prevent such things from repeating themselves in the submission and appointing process.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton

"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

Mother Teresa

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30 posted 02-10-2005 08:33 PM       View Profile for Alicat   Email Alicat   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alicat

Yep, that was me earlier in this thread, and at that time I firmly believed he should not be fired for espousing his right to free speech.  That was before fraud and lies entered the discussion, and the change in viewpoint was not just from you and Balladeer, but also from outside sources, including my own reading.  I have an enormous issue with those who willingly lie for their own benefit, which is one of the main issues of conflict between me and the 15 year old here.  And before you go off on President Bush, I don't think he lied intentionally, but that he went with what he knew to be true at the time.  Anyhow, back on topic.

I find it incongruous that Churchill was not reprimanded nor dismissed for those actions you cited, Noah, since during that time several other professors were fired and banned from public teaching for falsifying their resumes, credentials, and applications.  And for someone who hates America as much as Churchill's lifetime of public speaking, lectures, classes and book publications would espouse, he sure does relish in the liberties won by others as well as the multi-thousand dollar fee for his speaking tours, his 100k salary as a professor, and the funds he made off book sales.
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31 posted 02-11-2005 03:14 AM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

http://slate.com/id/2113358/

I'll be back.
ice
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32 posted 02-11-2005 06:04 AM       View Profile for ice   Email ice   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for ice


Balladeer:

""At various times, according to press reports, Churchill has described himself as Cherokee, Keetoowah Cherokee, Muskogee, Creek and most recently Meti."

"Press reports" , Do they include the O'Reily report?...if they do, then I find the king of spins view as credible as they most always are...unproveable and improbable, fantasy.

I would rather believe what the man himself has said instead of the spin..

"I have never been confirmed as having one-quarter blood, and never said I was," Churchill said. "And even if (the critics) are absolutely right (about his lack of Indian ancestry), what does that have to do with this issue? I have never claimed to be goddamned Sitting Bull."

Interview-Ward Churchill
Rocky Mountain News
February 5, 2005

" In biographical blurbs, he is identified as an enrolled member of the United Keetoowah Band of Cherokees. But a senior member of the band with access to tribal enrollment records told Indian Country Today that Churchill is not listed. George Mauldin, tribal clerk in Tahlequah, Okla., told the Rocky Mountain News, ''He's not in the data base at all.'' "

I cannot find this claim in anything (biographical) I have read...Perhaps the "blurbs" were also made up by the right leaning media to add further spin?

If they keep digging perhaps they will come up with some real human mistake this man has made, other than raise questions about his supposed claim that he is part Indian, which to me is a mute issue in light of the controversy...sorta like George Bushes grade scores in college or John Kerrys views on gun control.

___________ice
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33 posted 02-11-2005 07:46 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

No, Ice, that wasn't from the O'Reilly report but from an independant newspaper...

I'll be back..


btw, I'm sure he hasn't claimed to be Sitting Bull but I wouldn't rule out Lotta Bull
ice
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34 posted 02-11-2005 08:43 AM       View Profile for ice   Email ice   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for ice

­
­Perhaps it is Churchill's challenge to long held views that capitalism, and an ever expanding economy, are the saving graces of the world...is that the real issue here?

As far as "hating" America, I don't see proof of it in his speeches and essays...They expound disgust, true...but hard topics make thinkers passionate sometimes.

The catch phrase (hate) is far overused and seems used only to incite hate itself, in my opinion.

Churchill is an academic thinker, that alone makes him an oddity...His paper of 9/11/01 was written in strong metaphors...something I guess is odd in itself in this day and age...Everyone in this thread is a poet, I believe we all have studied the use of metaphors, and perhaps have misused them ourselves.

These metaphors are strong indeed, but no stronger than the metaphors of Mark Twain whose papers and books were often put on the banned list...(not comparing him to Twain, pointing out similarities) and are protected by the first amendment, and more importantly in my mind, the ninth amendment.

What he exposes here is the history of colonial expansion by force, the overpowering of weaker groups by strong force...example- the history of expansionism of Europeans settlers in the new world at the cost of wiping out an entire indigenous people and the continuing suppression and ethnic cleansing of that same people, still going on today.

In other words, he exposes and attacks American (and other) domestic and foreign policies, historically and in the modern sense.

He has spent his life studying the misuse of indigenous people, worldwide, and it seems to have made an indelible mark on his soul.
What he has found as the root cause of indigenous persecution is money, and has concluded that it represents (metaphor again) the root of the evil perpetrated, or at least, that greed advances proportionately as coffers grow.

His is a point of view that is bound to ruffle feathers, especially in countries, as I have stated, who have relied on ever expanding economies as the saving grace of democracy ...It is not a new concept.

The natural world and many of its people have suffered greatly from this philosophy, still do...and so some are fighting back.

I believe that he is trying to explain the earths position, as well as that of the suffering people, in a crude, but direct way, placing blame on everyone of us, and we don't won't to hear it.

_________ice
  ><>
    
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35 posted 02-11-2005 12:29 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

Alicat, I seriously doubt Churchill hates America. After all, why would he probably have lied about being a Native American?

But seriously, like I said, I didn't ever know this guy until this made the news last week, but what I can say is that reading the transcript from his Tuesday evening lecture at the University of Colorado, I think the whole claim he "hates" America is just another spin Fox News and others have developed.

I remain in staunch disagreement with his arguments, and I'm not theilled with the comparisons he makes to another sensitive and troubling time of world history, but I believe what he's really been arguing is that it wasn't suprising 9/11 happened because of how certain repressive U.S policies may have affected others around the world and influenced these negative vibes.

He said Tuesday to the Associated Press before his presentation that he mourns for everyone killed on 9/11 and could have explained himself better, and was referring to what he calls "technocrats" or those who support or influence these repressive systems of immoral policy as the "little Eichmanns". Though I hate to see him make comparisons like that in which are too extreme to agree with, I believe he's accurate otherwise at this point.

He also said during his presentation that his essay did not refer to children, firefighters, janitors or people passing by the World Trade Center who were killed during the attacks. I believe that too. It made total sense when he said, "Let's begin with the children. Yes, they were innocent. And I mourn them. But they were not more innocent than those half-million Iraqi children."

I do not disagree with him there. What offends me and seperates me from Churchill in particular is his use of comparisons in his language, and his opinion, according to this source, that "more terror attacks may be necessary to radicalize Americans to fight the misuse of U.S power."

That particular statement is what nauseates me most of all. In saying that, I don't believe he's actually praying for more attacks, but it's still sickening and faithless to hear that, for there have been administrations here in recent years that still are negligent to the basic needs and qualities of all Americans such as instating a living wage for all Americans, universal health care, etc. because we're so stuck on foreign policy, but I believe with all my heart America is a very decent country despite the problems we still deal with and most Americans do care and are interested in holding who they elect, or maybe not, accountable and responsible. I believe that statement derogatizes and takes that away from those majority of Americans who do care.

That's stupidity, that's unnerving, but it's also not a firing offense, and though I believe some of his opinions are quite offensive, I don't feel it as "hate speech" to America, and at least only to those in the government who abuse their power.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton

"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

Mother Teresa

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36 posted 02-11-2005 01:10 PM       View Profile for Alicat   Email Alicat   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alicat

I could really care less about his writings, to be perfectly honest.  And his backpedalling is very typical when someone gets hard questions about what they're on the record for saying, irrespective of political colors.  Again, I could care less about that.  What does bug me is that he was given multiple passes for fraud and deceit while many other professors and teachers have been fired for the same offenses.  He kept a high paying, ultra secure job despite his lies, despite his erroneus claims, despite a long history of deceit and fraud.  By the by, how well can one teach ethnic studies when one repeatedly lies about their own ethnicity?  That'd be like someone teaching higher math who also cheated on their SAT's.
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37 posted 02-11-2005 01:16 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

He is indeed an interesting fellow. Here's an article he posted protesting the use of the Indian symbols of his "heritage"..

First, as a counterpart to the Redskins, we need an NFL team called "Niggers" to honor Afro-Americans. Half-time festivities for fans might include a simulated stewing of the opposing coach in a large pot while players and cheerleaders dance around it, garbed in leopard skins and wearing fake bones in their noses. This concept obviously goes along with the kind of gaiety attending the Chop, but also with the actions of the Kansas Chiefs, whose team members - prominently including black members - lately appeared on a poster ,looking "fierce" and "savage" by way of wearing Indian regalia. Just a bit of harmless "morale boosting," says the Chief's front office. You bet.

So that the newly-formed Niggers sports club won't end up too out of sync while expressing the "spirit" and "identity" of Afro-Americans in the above fashion, a baseball franchise - let's call this one the "Sambos" - should be formed. How about a basketball team called the "spearchuckers/" A hockey team called the "Jungle Bunnies/" Maybe the "essence of these teams could be depicted by images of tiny black faces adorned with huge pairs of lips. The players could appear on TV every week or so gnawing on chicken legs and spitting watermelon seeds at one another. Catchy, eh? Well, there's "nothing to be upset about," according to those who love wearing "war bonnets" to the Super Bowl or having "Chief Illiniwik" dance around the sports arenas of Urbana, Illinois.
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38 posted 02-11-2005 01:17 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

All I can say in response to that, is I'm in full support of this inquiry into the university's hiring and promotion procedures David Horowitz is proposing to "see how Ward Churchill could get to the pinnacle of the faculty, to be the chair of an entire department."

But as far as his ethnic teaching skills is concerned, I believe we're just going to have to hear from some of his graduate students themselves and get their opinion, their impression. Education is the pursuit of truth, and surely the educated were persued that in their own experiences with Churchill.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton

"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

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39 posted 02-11-2005 01:20 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

A little more from the academic superfellow..

February 06, 2005
Ward Churchill strikes again

Ward Churchill says that more 9/11s may be necessary. In fact, he considers the necessity of such attacks on our homeland a "no-brainer." This is what he told a publication called Satya:

    One of the things I’ve suggested is that it may be that more 9/11s are necessary. This seems like such a no-brainer that I hate to frame it in terms of actual transformation of consciousness. ‘Hey those brown-skinned folks dying in the millions in order to maintain this way of life, they can wait forever for those who purport to be the opposition here to find some personally comfortable and pure manner of affecting the kind of transformation that brings not just lethal but genocidal processes to a halt.’ They have no obligation—moral, ethical, legal or otherwise—to sit on their thumbs while the opposition here dithers about doing anything to change the system. So it’s removing the sense of—and right to—impunity from the American opposition.


Translated into English, this statement means that since the U.S. protest movement isn't transforming American politics, we need to have brown-skinned foreigners perpetrate more 9/11s. Further translated, and stripped of its leftist jargon, Churchill is saying, "kill Whitey."
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40 posted 02-11-2005 01:37 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

By the way, Ice, here is just one of many instances I've run across where he claims to be Indian..


Perversions of Justice
Indigenous Peoples and Angloamerican Law
by Ward Churchill. Published by City Lights Books, San Francisco, March 2003
Talk by Ward Churchill to mark the book release, 22 February 2003
Speaking at First Congregational Church of Oakland, California

I bring you greetings from the Elders of the Keetoowah band of Cherokee, my mother's people. I'm from the Pizju, or the Lynx's Clan of the Ojibwe of Onigamena Kutaching, my wife's peoples. And from the Colorado chapter of the American Indian Movement, of which I'm a part.
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41 posted 02-11-2005 01:40 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

Hey, that is a very interesting tidbit you've found, Balladeer. I think that sort of opinion and debate could trigger a whole new seperate thread here, somewhere along the lines of "Mascot Symbols: Reflective or Deceptive?"

With that said, let me, if I may, digress for just a second here and briefly express my feel toward this, like with the Washington Redskins and the Cleveland Indians, for example.

I've really never had a problem with those sports names in general. I'm vague on why anyone would name a major league sports feanchise under a name like that, but then again I know virtually nothing about the NFL or MLB or major league sports in general so I guess I couldn't care less how teams are named.

Of course I believe most would never stand for a team being named the N word. It is offensive in my opinion and most would agree there. It's there that I put myself in the sandals of a tribal chief and wonder how they feel about their cultural pride formed as a sports slogan in general. I cannot say, but we must understand that too.

The concern in general here, I believe, is how our culture has long falsely stereotyped Native Americans, misinterpreting them since the days of the Lone Ranger and Hollywood westerns. We love western movies, of course, and I admit my own liking of Kemosabe and Clint Eastwood. But nevertheless, most Americans know little about Native American culture, beliefs, tradition, etc. and are dangerously mislead by these stereotypes that, in result, they're represented and perceived incorrectly and there is also a lack of Native American Appreciation classes out there for all to acknowledge the true significance and character of Native Americans in general. In addition, it's important to note out that many of the major or most popular publications on Native American culture were not written by tribal members themselves, but by white observers. You've got a few exceptions, such as Luther Standing Bear's "Land of the Spotted Eagle" which is an excellent publication that explains all about the Lakota Sioux, but a majority are publicated based on observation or interpretation.

I believe the concern here is that you have to be careful or understand the response of symbols before you use them.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton

"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

Mother Teresa

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42 posted 02-11-2005 01:43 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

He has also made claims in several areas that one of the major reasons of chickens coming home to roost with respect to 9/11 was the "systematic starving of 500,000 Iraqi children created by the U.N sanctions. Somehow he failed to mention that there was money for Hussein to continue building multi-million dollar mansions during that period or anything about the backdoor shennanigans of payoffs and bribes between menbers of the UN and Hussein, They made it possible for Hussein to hoard billions instead of feeding his people and Churchill claims that 9/11 was our comeuppance for the starvation deaths....very selective in his finger-pointing, isn't he?
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43 posted 02-11-2005 01:59 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

Balladeer, "Kill Whitey!" is not what he's saying. That's simply just putting words into his mouth.

Ward Churchill actually published another controversial essay before in where he believes peaceful protests do jack squat, titled "Pacifism as Pathology". Heck, he even said that it wasn’t pacifism that won the Civil Rights struggle, but rather the threat of violence that gave credence to the only "responsible black leader." And that is bologna when you consider the impact of Martin Luther King Jrs' "I Have A Dream" speech, or the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

And that's where I absolutely disagree with Churchill again. He discredits virtually the entire Civil Rights Movement for not shaping American politics in any degree, and even said it was the Black Panthers threat of violence that gave credence to the only "responsible black leader" as he put it. And there I believe Churchill has his history distorted again, because the Black Panthers didn't even form until 1966.

Anyway, my heart is saddened that his cynical mind believes only more attacks can influence the nation to stand up and protest against governmental irresponsibility and such. That's how Churchill disturbs me. There is an anti-war movement out there, and it's strong and it's building. Most Americans, even if they support the war in Iraq, do care about responsibility and accountability. And for Churchill to deny that is incredible.

But he NEVER said it in "Kill Whitey" terms, and that is a false interpretation of his controversial words.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton

"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

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44 posted 02-25-2005 12:36 PM       View Profile for Not A Poet   Email Not A Poet   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Not A Poet's Home Page   View IP for Not A Poet

Check the latest
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45 posted 02-25-2005 07:52 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Noun 1. serigraph - a print made using a stencil process in which an image or design is superimposed on a very fine mesh screen and printing ink is squeegeed onto the printing surface through the area of the screen that is not covered by the stencil
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46 posted 02-25-2005 10:43 PM       View Profile for Ringo   Email Ringo   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Ringo

Noah... this is indeed an interesting thread. Thank you for starting it.

I intentionally didn't read any of the responses yet so I might not be influenced in words, or thoughts before giving my views.
That being said:

I do not agree with most of what was said about the 9/11 attacks. I do however agree that the Pentagon is a stictly military target. When the bombing campaign started on Iraq v2.0, we dusted the Ministry of Defense and left it looking like a hardcore metal flop house. There were civilians that died in that bombing and we called it a military strike. There were civilians killed in the bombing raid on German petrolium factories during WWII, and we told the world that they held military significance. To claim that the Pentagon, which is the center of our war making machine, and which is in the business of of directing our military operations around the world, and which houses the top-level military leaders (except for the Commandant of Marines) is NOT military in nature is being self-centered and hypocritical. I do not advocate, in any way, the killing of non-military personnel... I am simply stating the facts as I see them.
Since he actually spoke the facts on that particular manner, and since the First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States states that there shall be no laws banning a person from speaking his thoughts (with the exception of overthrowing the government, or causing harm to another, obviously), then he should not be stopped in any manner from expressing those thoughts... especially since he is doing it in a lawful and peaceful manner.
By the same token, the people who disagree with him have the right to assemble peacefully (also a First Amendment right). I would actually celebrate it as the free exchange of ideas that it is.
Those that have lowered themselves to offering death threats are beneath the contempt that most would hold them in. That is NOT in the interest of freely exchanging ideas. They are no better than the animal rights activists who threatened to kill Ted Nugent's kids because he like to hunt for his food. They are no better than Rikki Lake, who screamed at the top  of her lungs about the violence against animals in the fur trade, and to prove her point attacked someone wearing a fur (and it was fake at that).

As for Lt. General Mattis... The easy answer is, "Well... he's a Marine." While NO ONE (no one sane, anyhow) likes to be in combat, and to kill people, he is actually verbalizing for the public those words which have been said by more people than will admit. How many times have you heard someone (perhaps yourself) state that "if those bring that wife beating garbage over here, and tried it on anyone in America, I would get my and kill them all... And I'd have fun doing it"...? I will agree that he chose very poorly the way to express his thoughts, and that he could have brought more intelligent phrases to bear; however, I think he was... well... understood out of context. What he said and what the world heard were slightly different things.
And as for no punishment being given to him?? Keep an eye on the papers... You will never read of him getting his fourth star, and he will never be Commandant. THAT is the worst punishment he could receive beyond being offered to retire, or being relieved of his command.

Just my thoughts, though.

In the wooden chair
Beside my window
I wear a face born in the falling rain

Not A Poet
Member Elite
since 11-03-1999
Posts 4427
Oklahoma, USA


47 posted 02-26-2005 12:22 AM       View Profile for Not A Poet   Email Not A Poet   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Not A Poet's Home Page   View IP for Not A Poet

Brad, we know what a serigraph is. This strict definition, however, does not mention the universally accepted other traits of a serigraph. It is a high quality print, or reproduction, usually made by the artist but certainly authorized by the artist. To make any kind of print of another's art and pass it off as your own is simply stealing. It is the identical crime we sometimes experience when we find our own writings on web page, credited to some plagarist.

The man is a scoundrel, pure and simple!

Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


48 posted 02-26-2005 01:24 AM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

I didn't know.

But what's next? Is he a bad tipper? Does he wash his shorts everyday?

Since you brought it up? What are the implications of restricting speech based on  person's character? Should Burroughs be banned because he killed his wife? Thomas should be banned because he used to recite poetry while drunk? Pound because he was a fascist or crazy or a fascist and crazy?

Balladeer
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since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


49 posted 02-26-2005 07:37 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

LOL! The gattling gun response, revisited. Interesting response, Brad. I feel the same way when democrats come out every other day with something ridiculous about Bush which, more times than not, winds up making them look foolish. Anyway, if you feel bad tipping and unclean shorts would be on an equal level with what's being discussed then I guess your comment has validity.

But, really - Indians wearing shorts????
 
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