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Iraq Votes..

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Balladeer
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0 posted 01-31-2005 12:44 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer


AP News..

BAGHDAD, Iraq - Iraqis embraced democracy in large numbers Sunday, standing in long lines to vote in defiance of mortar attacks, suicide bombers and boycott calls. Pushed in wheelchairs or carts if they couldn't walk, the elderly, the young and women in veils cast ballots in Iraq (news - web sites)'s first free election in a half-century.

The electoral commission said it believed, based on that anecdotal informatat turnout among the estimated 14 million eligible Iraqi voters appeared higher than the 57 percent that had been predicted.


"I am doing this because I love my country, and I love the sons of my nation," said Shamal Hekeib, 53, who walked with his wife 20 minutes to a polling station near his Baghdad home.

"We are Arabs, we are not scared and we are not cowards," Hekeib said


The feeling was sometimes festive. One election volunteer escorted a blind man back to his home after he cast his vote. A woman too frail to walk by herself arrived on a cart pushed by a young relative. Entire families showed up in their finest clothes.

In the so-called "triangle of death" south of Baghdad, a whiskery, stooped Abed Hunni walked an hour with his wife to reach a polling site in Musayyib. "God is generous to give us this day," he said.

"Now I feel that Saddam is really gone," said Fatima Ibrahim, smiling as she headed home after voting in Irbil. She was 14 and a bride of just three months when her husband, father and brother were rounded up in a campaign of ethnic cleansing under Saddam. None have ever been found.

-----------------------------------------------

We complain of long lines, inconvenience and confusing buttons to punch. Over 7 million Iraqis risked assassinations, threat of bombings and literally risking their lives to vote. How many of us would have gone to a building which could be blown up at any minute to cast our ballot?  These are the Iraqis you don't read about on the evening news....the ones who are happy Hussein is out of power and eager to embrace freedom.

Hats off to their courage and determination

bbent
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1 posted 01-31-2005 02:06 AM       View Profile for bbent   Email bbent   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit bbent's Home Page   View IP for bbent

I agree,i'm damn glad to see there was a big turnout.A big Thank You to the U.S.and other forces that helped make it all possible also.

Live like it's your last day...
Dance like nobody's watching...
Love like you've never been hurt...

Balladeer
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2 posted 01-31-2005 10:48 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

In his first news conference since the elections, Iraqi interim Prime Minister Ayad Allawi called on Iraqis to join together to build a society shattered by decades of war, tyranny, economic sanctions and military occupation.

"The terrorists now know that they cannot win," he said. "We are entering a new era of our history and all Iraqis — whether they voted or not — should stand side by side to build their future." He promised to work to ensure that "the voice of all Iraqis is present in the coming government."

French President Jacques Chirac phoned Bush and said he was satisfied by Iraqi participation in the vote. "These elections mark an important step in the political reconstruction of Iraq. The strategy of terrorist groups has partly failed," Chirac said, according to a spokesman.

Russian President Vladimir Putin  called the election an "historic event for the Iraqi people because it is undoubtedly a step toward democratization of the country."

It's rather interesting how silent the liberal papers, stations and organizations have become since the election took place....one hears nary a peep. Perhaps they, with the exception of Teddy (of course), are exhibiting some class.
Sunshine
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3 posted 01-31-2005 11:06 AM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine


Nah...Kerry almost stepped in it yesterday.

It was a good day yesterday for the voters.

I sometimes think we have it "too easy" and forget what some will go through to have what we have.  I hope the Iraqis remember this in future elections to come, and increase their voter percentage turnout.
JoshG
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4 posted 01-31-2005 01:23 PM       View Profile for JoshG   Email JoshG   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JoshG

No matter what happens from this point on all those that were involved in this war will be remember as freedom givers, and Bush was the president that fought a world of personal agenda's to give freedom a chance.

Let this day stand as a reminder to us all that freedom will cost us lives, but provide us hope.  It is the cornerstone of our great nation and we should be willing to share it with all.

Yet, those that think continued talks would have brought freedom to the Iraqi people.  I would love to see the table you would be sitting around right now if we had gone that direction.
Mistletoe Angel
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5 posted 01-31-2005 01:38 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

I find it very inspiring and admirable how millions of Iraqi citizens rose to the occasion and expressed their voice through vote.

Though I don't think this election will lead to a stable democracy in Iraq, in any culture or nation, seeing the public active and making their voice heard is an inspiration we can all learn from. Even us Americans could learn from this experience.

I am a liberal and I applaud their determination and intestinal fortitude, for when you see so many out there getting involved as a community in something of these sorts, THAT is what democracy looks like. Democracy should always be of the people, by the people and for the people, and I think Iraq saw much of that yesterday.

And, yes, I believe the more liberal-leaning publications were doing just that; showing class, because liberals like me in general will always believe this was a senseless war and the way in which Hussein was removed was devastating and could have spared so many innocent lives. 99% of the world believes we all deserve to be free, and we just disagree in how we go about establishing freedom. Some believe in war, some believe in peace. I believe in the latter. But I believe both are glad that Iraq could come together and attempt to build a community.

Deep in my heart, I want to be wrong about my prediction for Iraq, in that the nation will break up into seperate nations and there may be a civil war because of the war in Iraq and growing insurgencies. I still believe that will be the case and this election will fail to bring Iraq together in the long run. Particularly among the Sunnis. Word has it the national turnout was about 57%, and among Kurds, it was over 90 percent. The Shias also had incredible turnout. But some polls never opened in some Sunni areas and I fear they may feel underrepresented and that may create tension in the region.

That's where I question the absolute legitimacy of this election as well like Kerry argued. I also believe that many risked their lives to participate in a election not only to vote in a new leadership that defines their interests best, but also to vote for "freedom from foreign occupation" as Robert Fisk put it.

Now that the election is over, I hope the Bush Administration can finally hear out the people of Iraq and Allawi. 82% of Sunnis and 69% of Shiites in a new Zogby poll want the U.S to withdraw either immediately or once the new government is put in place. Allawi, who is the obvious election winner, has even requested the U.S draft a timetable in removing troops from Iraq immediately after he takes office.

Kudos to the eight million Iraqis who came out to vote!

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton


"You'll find something that's enough to keep you
But if the bright lights don't receive you
You should turn yourself around and come back home" MB20
Huan Yi
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6 posted 01-31-2005 03:50 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi


An editor for the Weekly Standard drew a parallel regarding the Sunnis
that I had been waiting for someone in the media to make; he compared
the Sunnis to Afrikaners in South Africa.  It would have been considered
unconscionable to allow their little or no participation to delegitimize
an election participated in by the majority, and I think a similar act
of non-participation by the Sunnis should be considered in similar light.
  
Juju
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7 posted 01-31-2005 05:43 PM       View Profile for Juju   Email Juju   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Juju's Home Page   View IP for Juju

I diddo John,

This is a good big step. It is going to be tuff to get a stable government, but if we stick in it and have faith Iraq's will have the freedom they so craved for so many years.
I think that THE LOW TURN OUT, WILL JUST SHOW THE SUNNI'S HOW important it is to vote. If it is deligitimatesized, that would be inane to reward incompatance.

Juju

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The dictionary never lies.... I am magical (;

Balladeer
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8 posted 01-31-2005 07:08 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

I agree. It seems ludicrous for the Sunnis to stay at home and not vote or even recognize the election and, at the same time, complain that they may not be well-represented. They have the same opportunities an anyone else in Iraq and, should they decide not to use them, they have no one to blame but themselves.

Noah, thank you for your comments. I believe also it was indeed a vote to end occupation as the Iraqis want us out of there as badly as we want to be out of there and they recognize that setting up their own government will hasten that action. That's a GOOD thing.....
Denise
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9 posted 01-31-2005 09:35 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

I think it was a resounding message to the terrorists. And a light at the end of the tunnel.
Balladeer
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10 posted 02-01-2005 12:05 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

  In an interview with CNN, Jordanian King Abdullah II on Monday congratulated the Iraqi people on their election and expressed optimism over the future of democracy in the region.

    "I think we can say hearty congratulations to all Iraqis.Everybody is very, very pleased with the turnout and it seems to have been a very successful day for Iraqis yesterday," the King said.
Turkish Foreign Ministry said in a statement on Monday a newperiod will begin in Iraq after the parliamentary elections on Sunday.

    "Holding elections in Iraq despite all ongoing security andother problems, low participation in some regions and all other difficulties, Iraqi people once more confirmed their will to assurepeace and stability in unity and integrity of this country," the statement said.

    "We consider it a step taken on the road to settlement of ademocratic regime in Iraq," it added.


Iranian Foreign Minister Kamal Kharazi on Monday congratulated the Iraqi government on holding "such a glorious election", termingit a "success" and "sign of nobility of the Iraqi people.

    "The election in Iraq is an important step on the way toward the establishment of a democratic structure based on people'sdetermination," Kharazi was quoted as saying in a message to his Iraqi counterpart Hoshiar al-Zibari.

    "I hope that the election will bring stability and security tothe region without the presence of alien forces as well asexpansion of bilateral relations between Iran and Iraq," Kharazi said.


Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak who was taking part in theAfrican Union summit in the Nigerian capital Abuja, telephoned Iraq's interim Prime Minister Iyad Allawi on Sunday to congratulatehim on the holding of landmark elections in Iraq.

    He hoped this step would lead to a political participation thatinvolves all segments of the Iraqi people and would open the door for restoring calm and stability in Iraq.


Speaker of Kuwaiti National Assemble Jassem Al-Kharafi expressed satisfaction on Monday with the Iraqi elections, the Kuwaiti News Agency reported.

    "I would like to congratulate the Iraqi people on their steadfastness against all odds to bring a successful national election," Al-Kharafi was quoted as saying.

This is how Iraq's neighbors have reacted to the election. I think it's VERY encouraging....

Mistletoe Angel
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11 posted 02-01-2005 12:36 AM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel



Yes Balladeer, exactly! It's undoubtedly VERY encouraging.

Make no mistake about it. I believe Sunday was a great day for Iraq. I don't agree with the actions of war in Iraq that led to this day, but I'm just glad that the citizens of Iraq could make their voices heard, and perhaps we can learn from their bravery and courage and, this may just be wishful thinking, but it can encourage more of our own youth or citizens in other countries to do likewise, without the need of military action to influence the passion of civil democracy in action.

I admit I am critical about how the election was organized. I believe in my heart it is a bit unfair to call the election completely legitimate, particularly because this was an election held under an occupation, and all the major parties, including Allawi's party, requested that the election be postponed back in November, and before the independent electoral commission could decide on the request, Bush and Negroponte insisted they be held on the 30th of January. So, you see, I just feel that if the Iraqi parties wanted to postpone the election, they should have been given the right to do so.

That's my general criticism of this election. And I do believe much of what fueled the high turnout was the public response in begging the U.S to leave once the new government is put in place. Currently it seems intentions or plans for departure are so scattered. I hear some say it'll be done once 200,000 Iraqi police officers and infantry are trained, others say it'll be done once their constitution is written, some say in any case they'll remain there for another five years or so, etc. Straight up, they deserve an answer, the world deserves relief, and I hope somewhere in the state of the union address Wednesday, Bush will shed some light on the exit strategy, so both our troops, all Americans at home, and the people of Iraq, won't have to continue to be left bottled up in anxiety or doubt in when we'll see the light at the end of the tunnel.

I've been told they couldn't advertise candidates on TV because they would then be targets for being killed, so they all got together and showed one commercial over and over to the Iraqi people, which was a video of American tanks going away from the camera, then captioned at the bottom of the screen read Arabic for "YOU VOTE. THEY GO."

So now, I think the corporate media in general are probably seeing this successful election as a victory for Bush, etc, especially when France and Germany even praised the election. But one thing that's not going to go away is the Iraqis demand to have their country fully in their own hands again, and begging for the occupation to cease. I hope Bush can respect that and take the word of the citizens of Iraq, show some class, and vow to end the occupation once the government is put in place, for good measure.

Also, the corporate media has been hailing this election today as a "turning point" all day. And, please know I am not taking away any of the achievements of yesterday, but it's also important that we take this to heart and be reminded of this operation and the other "turning points" to date, which, if they all are truly turning points, would mean we've walked in a square and are now walking the same side of a square twice now:

*

* The deaths of Saddam Hussein’s brutal sons, Uday and Qusay, were supposed to be a turning point.

* The capture of Saddam himself was supposed to be a turning point.

* The transfer of power at the end of June was supposed to be a turning point.

* Forcing Muqtada al-Sadr out of Najaf was supposed to be a turning point.

* Taking back Fallujah was supposed to be a turning point.

*

I am quite skeptical that this election will effectively democratize Iraq, but the best answer right now would obviously be, "We'll just have to wait and see what happens!"

But the winners are none other than the Iraqis themselves, and I am happy for them, and I pray things can turn out for the best, as I also pray for this war and occupation to stop as soon as possible.

So I hope that now the citizens of Iraq can be given enough space to begin determining the future of Iraq themselves with least interference as possible. I also hope that as the results come in, officials can get to the bottom of the supposed voting booths that never opened in some more Sunni-populated areas of Iraq and report the irregularities so it's seen all groups are fairly represented, and if indeed the Sunnis just slacked from voting, well, they'll just have to sort everything out with the other groups.

For their sake, as well as for our own health and good-will, no matter our opinion on the war or our ideal diplomatic strategy, may we continue to look up and wish for nothing but the best wishes for the people of Iraq.



Sincerely,
Noah Eaton


"You'll find something that's enough to keep you
But if the bright lights don't receive you
You should turn yourself around and come back home" MB20
Brad
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12 posted 02-01-2005 03:26 AM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

I certainly share everyone's admiration for Iraqi bravery. I wish I shared the same optimism.

But, what the hell, I hope Mike, Denise, and John and the rest are right.
Sunshine
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13 posted 02-01-2005 11:10 AM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine


'Atta Boy, Brad!
Tim
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14 posted 02-01-2005 01:17 PM       View Profile for Tim   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Tim

http://www.suntimes.com/output/brown/cst-nws-brown01.html
Mistletoe Angel
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15 posted 02-01-2005 01:27 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

I hope you understand that this was never about who was right. In my mind, it has always been about what was sound.

This election was successful, but it doesn't change my opinion of this war being senseless.

It goes beyond just the belief that war doesn't solve anything because the tension always remains and all killing is wrong.

America was still rushed to war on faulty intelligence and without democratic input with the way the media completely silenced the anti-war voice and ignored the 61% who believed more time should have been given for inspections and diplomacy.

Tens of thousands were still killed in this senseless war, tens of thousands which, perhaps, could have been with their friends and family at the polls as well, had there been a non-violent strategy in attempting to bring this same sort of election to Iraq.

We've lost about 1,500 of our own men and women, whose lives could have been spared.

Bush took us to war without an exit strategy. Right now you are hearing multiple reasons when we may finally come home. Some say, "We'll pull out once Iraq trains 200,000 military personnel and police officers.". Some say, "We'll pull out of Iraq once their constitution is written". Some are saying, "No, we must stay as long as it takes, which may be five years."

And on top of it all, despite the success of the election, there's been talks of seperation happening and heating up for a while now. Basra wants to seperate from Iraq in the south.

I am glad the Iraqi people could come out together like this Sunday, but this doesn't make the war "non-senseless" whatsoever. Impatience and impromptu fueled this war from the beginning, and if only America could have, as a country, been allowed to voice their collected opinion on how we go about helping Iraq, we could have done so without spending over $140 billion, which has now sent our deficit to unprecedented levels and making the value of the dollar weaker all across Europe, etc. Money that could have went to public schools. Money that could have went to beginning to fund a living wage for all Americans. Money that could have maintained our remaining national forests.

And as long as Bush continues to carry out his vision of military influence and war in bringing democracy to nations and funneling billions more for war machines and such, we just may be heading in that direction of fiscal insecurity.

Not to mention the continued killing will only build tension and resentment in the region.

In terms of who's more optimistic or skeptical about the outcome on if this democracy can maintain itself in Iraq, I agree with Brad, I sure hope I'm wrong. But the war itself I still believe to be wrong.

I also think it's important, to those of you who did grow up during the Vietnam era, to also reflect on the response in the media following Vietnam's 1967 election:



There is some sort of haunted resemblance here. I agree that the elections turned out right overall, but please recognize and understand we're still at war here, and much work STILL needs to be done in attempting to make this democracy stand on its own two legs.

One thing I notice reading this is that the supposed 83% turnout in Vietnam in '67 is almost identical to the 80% that "the American officials hoped for"

Another thing is understanding the media in '67 compared to '05. In '67, the event was read as a "constitutional process" whereas now you hear a lot more cheerleading slogans. "Freedom". "Democracy". "Historic".
But we know what happened after 1967 in Vietnam. After Nguyen Van Thieu seized the South Vietnamese government two years earlier and was elected president in September of 1967, there was the battle of Khe Sanh. The Tet Offensive. The battle at Hamburger Hill. The invasion of Cambodia. But, in the end, it didn't save the mission.

There's a chance here that this democracy could come to Iraq, but we must be aware of the lessons of yesterday, and I pray our administration doesn't get arrogant, doesn't get cocky, doesn't get reckless on the heels of this election. It's those types of qualities that will let irresponsibility seep in and take each of us back to square one.

I believe Mark Brown doesn't understand the true intent of why many came out to vote Sunday. They want freedom, and that also means freedom from foreign occupation. Bush must respect their word. I pray he does that and give the Iraqis the space they need to build their own nation, and doesn't wait until the next administration enters the office to do so. The sooner, the better.

The election doesn't sell my belief that this war, among all wars, is wrong. Nevertheless, I can't turn back time, so I just hope Bush makes the right decision from here on out and in his state of the union address illuminates some sort of exit strategy. The Iraqis deserve an indication, as they are bottled up with so much anxiety and incertainty about when they can be free by all means. Our troops deserve an indication, for they have been working their hearts out and deserve to come home as soon as possible to their families and loved ones, with the halcyon feeling that their service paid off, and not to spoil their sense of accomplishment. And, finally, America deserves to know, so both those for and against the war can sleep with full ease again.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton


"You'll find something that's enough to keep you
But if the bright lights don't receive you
You should turn yourself around and come back home" MB20
Tim
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16 posted 02-01-2005 01:34 PM       View Profile for Tim   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Tim

"I hope you understand that this was never about who was right. In my mind, it has always been about what was sound."

I think I will side with right over sound.
And not who is right, but what is right.

I have no idea how things will turn out in Iraq and can only hope and pray for the right result and not the sound result.


Alicat
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17 posted 02-01-2005 01:42 PM       View Profile for Alicat   Email Alicat   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alicat

I really don't think one can compare Vietnam with Iraq for one main reason: China.

The Tet Offensive came the day after a truce was signed between North and South.  The North broke the truce, heavily supplied, supported, equipped and bolstered by China.  Reminds me of what they did in Korea, but that's another story.
Huan Yi
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18 posted 02-01-2005 05:30 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

In World War II the Japanese military planned
to win not by defeating the American military
but by wearying the Americans at home with
the cost in casualties and treasure.  The same
was true of the Communists in Korea and Vietnam,
(in Vietnam the South Vietnamese, despite representations,
suffered more casualties in each year than the Americans,
and more deaths in the year after the American military
was withdrawn than Americans lost in the entire war).
The war in Iraq will not be lost in Iraq.

Brad
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19 posted 02-01-2005 11:49 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

http://slate.com/id/2112895/
JoshG
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20 posted 02-02-2005 01:17 PM       View Profile for JoshG   Email JoshG   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JoshG

Sunday was a great day for Iraq and have no doubt... IT WOULD not have happened if we did not go to war.  Anyone that thinks otherwise needs to spend sometime doing some research on Iraq and the Saddam regiem.  We fought for those that could not fight against oppression.  We helped free the minds and bodies of slavery.  Yes, and Bush led the way despite all doubts.  Oh, and who cares about them wanting us to remove our military.  It takes nothing away from the fact that war was necessary and absolutely the essential element to Iraq's freedom, today!
Mistletoe Angel
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21 posted 02-02-2005 02:01 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

Well, I couldn't disagree with you more, Josh.

Just let me say that if we could have had it our way, we could have spared the lives of tens of thousands of innocent Iraqis down there, as well as approximately 1,500 of our own men and women.

The Bush Administration could have just specifically said that they wanted to go to Iraq because they wanted to restore democracy to the people for the first time in fifty years and had they done simply that, there wouldn't be any fuss about the credibility of the war, only among those who believe war doesn't solve anything like myself. But, no, we went to Iraq because we were told Saddam had weapons of mass destruction and intended to use them against us or our allies. The search has ended, none have been found, the claim in taking the nation to war has been proven false.

And how do you know that this sort of progress wouldn't have been made under a non-violent approach or not?

The fact is, we were never even given a chance. A majority of Americans believed in the few weeks before the war began March 19th, 2003 that more time should have been given for inspections and diplomatic arrangements. 61% of the U.S population believed that. But the corporate media was as impatient as the administration was and in result, anti-war voices were virtually completely suppressed. Over 99% of the interviews on the major networks in the month leading up to the war were all from pro-war guests, only three interviews conducted were anti-war individuals, and Ted Kennedy did two of the three.

And ever since then, the corporate media continues to pretend there is no anti-war movement going on. But it is going on, and is gradually building. The over 500,000 who marched in New York City rally during the Republican National Convention hosted by United For Peace & Justice was the single largest political demonstration in U.S history. Dissent has been gradually rising and over half of Americans now believe it was a mistake to go to Iraq.

The chance was never given to us. It was never even suggested to us. Going to war was never decided democratically. Impatience and fear was the vessel that drove us.

I absolutely defend my claim the war is senseless and unnecessary because I believe in the vision of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr, and if only we listen and have more patience, I have faith we could have made this same sort of progress and spare the lives of the tens of thousands killed, which in any event is wrong in my heart.

You should care about the Iraqis wanting us to depart once the government is set in place. That's exactly why many of them went to the polls. They want freedom, period. Not just freedom from terrorists and freedom from fear, but freedom from our occupation there.

I certainly hope Bush can show that class tonight in his State of the Union address and sympathize with their desires and concerns and at least hint out an exit strategy. He should realize that the best way to finish is on top. If he still insists to refuse saying anything about how we intend to end our mission in Iraq, what type of message does that send the citizens of Iraq? What type of message does that send our troops in harms way, who hear this Sunday was a "turning point" and now expect some final stretch or development in the mission, rather than just another ellipse in the same act. It's an exhausting thing to hear, and only shrinks morale in the long run.

The admirable ambition and determination in the hearts of the Iraqi citizens Sunday should serve as a golden opportunity for us all. We should not ruin it by continuing more of the same months and months ahead. If this should happen, I believe most Iraqis will probably begin feeling Sunday was a mirage.

If Bush truly sees this as a "turning point" he must treat it as a "turning point" and send out that update. Otherwise, I don't believe the people of Iraq will feel he really is coming to their defenses.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton

"You'll find something that's enough to keep you
But if the bright lights don't receive you
You should turn yourself around and come back home" MB20

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22 posted 02-02-2005 08:11 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

I absolutely defend my claim the war is senseless and unnecessary because I believe in the vision of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr, and if only we listen and have more patience, I have faith we could have made this same sort of progress and spare the lives of the tens of thousands killed, which in any event is wrong in my heart.


Noah, I can symphasize with the battle you must fight within yourself - and I say that kindly. You are glad that thousands of children per year in Iraq are not dying of starvation and yet you damn the man who stopped it. You are glad that the dictatorship of Hussein is over along with his reign of terror and yet you condemn the actions that took him out. You are happy for the Iraqi people and their election and yet you denounce wverything that made it possible. Your answer is that it would have been good if it had been done by peaceful means. You won't find anyone to disagreee with that but you offer no peaceful path that could have been taken, no alternative. You claim further negotiations could have brought about the same results, ignoring the fact that negotiations- and consessions - were conducted over a decade with no resuts or progress at all. You claim that it was his excuse of WMD's that made such a difference, ignoring the fact that all of the top Democrats including Clinton made the same claims long before Bush. Your dislike of Bush has caused this internal dispute in you and yet you don't recognize it as such.

It's easy to say everything should be done by peaceful means but it's not realistic and, to not recognize that fact, is either self- delusion or self-denial. If you can come up with some plausible avenue that could have been taken to achieve the same results I, and probably the entire world, would have been happy to hear it.

If you are happy for the Iraqi people, then be happy for them and set your prejudices aside while you do.....
Mistletoe Angel
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23 posted 02-02-2005 09:13 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

The point, and concern here, is rather simple. No chance was given to those in America who believed the Iraqis, as everyone in the world, deserve freedom, but also believe they don't have to be amidst a war to make it possible. America didn't decide to go to war democratically.

Now, I recognize I alone cannot write out the whole alternative. Every diplomatic effort should always be a community effort. That's the fuss here. It's that we weren't given the time to think and collect our thoughts together and discuss the issue of Hussein and Iraq collaboratively.

Iran and North Korea are presently developing nuclear weapons programs supposedly. Bush believes both these issues can be resolved diplomatically, and I believe he's going to address that same hope shortly in his State of the Union Address, which you bet I'll be watching to analyze if he leads closely off the heels of his highly militaristic second inaugural speech. If Bush believes that, then I remain utterly convinced that Iraq could have been no exception to the rule.

And I'm convinced that plausible avenue could have been located with patience on our side.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton

"You'll find something that's enough to keep you
But if the bright lights don't receive you
You should turn yourself around and come back home" MB20

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24 posted 02-02-2005 09:34 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

I repeat, Noah, that you continue to disregard that diplomacy was attempted for twelve years. Simply saying there must be a way is wishful thinking - it does not provide a way.

I have no doubt you will be listening to Bush tonight. I can't wait to hear what you come up with!
 
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