How to Join Member's Area Private Library Search Today's Topics p Login
Main Forums Discussion Tech Talk Mature Content Archives
   Nav Win
 Discussion
 The Alley
 Tsunami: Political Issue?   [ Page: 1  2  3  4  5  6  7  ]
 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124
Follow us on Facebook

 Moderated by: Ron   (Admins )

 
User Options
Format for Better Printing EMail to a Friend Not Available
Admin Print Send ECard
Passions in Poetry

Tsunami: Political Issue?

 Post A Reply Post New Topic   Go to the Next Oldest/Previous Topic Return to Topic Page Go to the Next Newest Topic 
Mistletoe Angel
Deputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 5 Tours
Member Empyrean
since 12-17-2000
Posts 34089
City of Roses


100 posted 01-08-2005 04:26 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

Hmmm, well, in the case of Iraq I would say gassing of men, women and children, mass executions, torture chambers, rapes committed by the soldiers and "royal" family, kidnappings, etc, etc, etc...would be my definition of despotic horror. If you can perceive it as a type of freedom, then so be it.

No, I do not perceive that as freedom in any sort. In fact, rather the opposite. Oppression.

For all we know, Saddam actually believed his brutal practices had a purpose to them, just as Bush's war is tagged with the recurring theme of "freedom" cloaked under a patriotic veil.

So, if you consider all the above your official definition of "despotic hooror", I suppose you don't believe the abuse at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo, the frequent bombings over Falluja and Baghdad, the over hundred thousand deaths of men, women and children as "despotic horror" either?

If you truly see that as 'freedom", then so be it.

I would appreciate seeing any verifiable proof of that, Noah, if you have any to back that statement up.

Here's a taste of it:
http://www.scalzi.com/whatever/002915.html

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton

"You'll find something that's enough to keep you
But if the bright lights don't receive you
You should turn yourself around and come back home" MB20

Huan Yi
Member Ascendant
since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


101 posted 01-08-2005 05:21 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi


Noah,

"the over hundred thousand deaths of men, women and children as "despotic horror" either?"

This number has been used before
and refuted; repeating it regardless
is a propaganda tactic.

Whatever the number is, (and it is in the
thousands),  it should be also admitted who is
doing the majority of the non-combatant killing
and to what purpose.  As it is, the above presentation
could just as easily be used to
blame the Allies for the deaths of six million Jews.

Regardless of fact, your compass always goes
back to America is evil North.

P.S.

You wrote:

“The world now agrees that the greatest threat to world peace is the U.S government”

Mike responded:

“I would appreciate seeing any verifiable proof of that, Noah, if you have any to back that statement up.”

Your reply:

"Here's a taste of it:

http://www.scalzi.com/whatever/002915.html  

"

Did you actually bother to read this?

Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


102 posted 01-08-2005 06:08 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

For all we know, Saddam actually believed his brutal practices had a purpose to them, just as Bush's war is tagged with the recurring theme of "freedom" cloaked under a patriotic veil.

Fine, Noah. Hussein's actions in Iraq are no different than Bush's actions. Your hatred of Bush has made you  come up with comparisons that I would feel ashamed of if they were mine. You would even go so far as to try to justify a mass-murderer's actions...and then say they were no worse than the president's. I find that to be incredible....

Spare me the democratic banter of Abu-Graib, please. I realize that in lean times any point no matter how small has to be grasped tightly with both hands and squeezed as much as possible but I think it's about dry right now....

As far as your link, I saw nothing in it about terrorists at all. Did you read it thoroughly?
Huan Yi
Member Ascendant
since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


103 posted 01-08-2005 10:02 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

Noah,

“Environmentalists Dispute Quotes

Last week's column cited quotes from the British branches of two environmental groups, Greenpeace (search) and Friends of the Earth (search), blaming the Indian Ocean tsunami on global warming. I pulled these quotes from interviews group spokesmen gave to the British newspaper, The Independent.

Both groups have disputed the quotes. In a letter to the Independent, a version that was also sent to FOXNews.com, Stephen Tindale, executive director of Greenpeace UK, and Tony Juniper, executive director of Friends of the Earth in London, wrote:

"Sir: On 23 December — before the earthquake and tsunami — we were asked by The Independent to comment on the dramatic increase in insurance claims resulting from hurricanes, droughts, floods and other early impacts of climate change. Our quotes appeared in an article on 27 December, as part of your coverage of the tsunami. For the record, we would like to make absolutely clear that earthquakes are not a result of climate change and we have never sought to make any link."

However, it still seems that environmentalists are seeking to exploit the tragedy.

For example, a similar quote from the Indonesian spokesperson for Friends of the Earth has not been disputed. And let's not forget that Greenpeace is not exactly innocent of trying to link tsunami-like disasters with global warming in the minds of the general public. All you need do is visit Greenpeace's own Web site promoting the global-warming disaster movie "The Day After Tomorrow," which features a photo of a giant wave hitting an urban area with the doctored caption, "The Day is Today: What Will You Do?"’


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,143577,00.html

Just to let you know I also had e-mailed the author with questions raised in this
thread:

Subject: "Milloy Blames Environmentalists First "
Date: 1/3/2005 6:50:53 PM Central Standard Time
To: stevenmilloy@yahoo.com
CC: views@foxnews.com

http://www.prwatch.org/node/3159

Dear Sir,

Is article right or wrong?

John

Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


104 posted 01-08-2005 11:41 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

quote:
This number has been used before
and refuted; repeating it regardless
is a propaganda tactic.


It has not been refuted. It has been contested. The only way to refute it would be to do another statistical study (actually two or three) and compare results.

Websites that count numbers from newspapers don't count (and mysteriously omit all death resulting from aerial bombardment?).


Huan Yi
Member Ascendant
since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


105 posted 01-09-2005 12:52 AM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

Again:

“The Lancet study's headline figure of "100,000" excess deaths is a probabilistic projection from a small number of reported deaths - most of them from aerial weaponry - in a sample of 988 households to the entire Iraqi population. Only those actual, war-related deaths could be included in our count.”

http://www.iraqbodycount.net/press/  

“Only those actual, war-related deaths could be included in our count.”

Which is substantially lower.

The article goes on about the flaws in the Lancet study's headline figure.


Also:

“a close look at the actual study, published online today by the British medical journal the Lancet, reveals that this number is so loose as to be meaningless.”

http://slate.msn.com/id/2108887

Huan Yi
Member Ascendant
since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


106 posted 01-09-2005 01:32 AM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

This should be really fun for history buffs:

“Democratic nations seldom go to war willingly.  The natural instinct of voters is to preserve peace whenever possible.  Aided by a free press, there is also never a shortage of those ready to suggest alternatives to conflict. Yet sometimes war is inevitable.  This is most obviously true when a nation is attacked.  For some there is no other legitimate reason for war.  Others believe that hostile intent on the part of other countries is also sufficient cause.”

http://libraryautomation.com/nymas/americafirst.html

[This message has been edited by Huan Yi (01-09-2005 02:09 AM).]

Mistletoe Angel
Deputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 5 Tours
Member Empyrean
since 12-17-2000
Posts 34089
City of Roses


107 posted 01-09-2005 02:21 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

This number has been used before
and refuted; repeating it regardless
is a propaganda tactic.

Whatever the number is, (and it is in the
thousands), it should be also admitted who isdoing the majority of the non-combatant killing and to what purpose.  As it is, the above presentation could just as easily be used to blame the Allies for the deaths of six million Jews.


Perhaps, but I also believe our own media always tends to give conservative estimates of casualties in fear of a greater uprising of sentiment. That is, in its own form, propaganda as well. And with the way we have seen greater attacks each month since the invasion, I wouldn't be suprised whatsoever if it has surpassed 100,000, so I believe that estimate.

Regardless of fact, your compass always goes back to America is evil North.

No, my compass always goes back to the Bush Administration as a corrupt administration getting away with murder.

P.S.

You wrote:

“The world now agrees that the greatest threat to world peace is the U.S government”

Mike responded:

“I would appreciate seeing any verifiable proof of that, Noah, if you have any to back that statement up.”

Your reply:

"Here's a taste of it:
http://www.scalzi.com/whatever/002915.html  

"

Did you actually bother to read this?


Mmm hmm, I did.

That was to clarify what Europe thinks as the greater threat to world peace; Iraq or the United States, in a non-scientific nevertheless significant poll.

When you look at results at large which include other countries, where respondents respond saying a certain country is a threat or not, Israel is seen as the greatest threat to world peace at 59%, with the United States in the top five at 53%, one percent more than Iraq.

Scientific or not, that SHOULD be startling, and notes the bridges tha have been burned since the invasion.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton

"You'll find something that's enough to keep you
But if the bright lights don't receive you
You should turn yourself around and come back home" MB20

Mistletoe Angel
Deputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 5 Tours
Member Empyrean
since 12-17-2000
Posts 34089
City of Roses


108 posted 01-09-2005 02:36 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

Fine, Noah. Hussein's actions in Iraq are no different than Bush's actions. Your hatred of Bush has made you  come up with comparisons that I would feel ashamed of if they were mine. You would even go so far as to try to justify a mass-murderer's actions...and then say they were no worse than the president's. I find that to be incredible....

What I find far more incredible than that is that some are actually comparing Iraq to World War II.

It seems that's all those who have a deep resentment or hatred of pacifists do. They take a previous major quagmire, and apply it to the current situation in a defensive-offensive type of manuevering. Huan Yi has done that in this thread, as his, if not hatred, resentment of pacifists is obvious, and he even went so far before as to insinuate it was because of those like myself his parents died, among with the Jews in World War II to the Tutsis in Rwanda to the innocent Iraqis under Hussein's rule.

THAT's beyond incredible to me. And should history continue itself and in 2035, when World War IV comes around and we're not fighting it with sticks and stones, people like me and Huan Yi will be having these same debates.

There's no justifying a mass murderer's actions here. It's all condemnation, and I condemn Bush for failing to learn the civility behind the crisis by continuing to punish innocent Iraqi families each day through further death and devastation.

I just find it incredible that not only would someone's stance on this war contradict their sentiments to other disasters of our times, but even accuse those like myself, who never held a gun, never dropped a bomb, never had anything to do with these crises of humanity, as murderers. THAT'S incredible.

Spare me the democratic banter of Abu-Graib, please. I realize that in lean times any point no matter how small has to be grasped tightly with both hands and squeezed as much as possible but I think it's about dry right now....

Fine. Just want you to remember and ponder it is all.

As far as your link, I saw nothing in it about terrorists at all. Did you read it thoroughly?

It's overall opinion in general, terrorist or not terrorist related.

It's just one poll, of course, nevertheless when over 400,000 participate and record that wide of a margin, that should be alarming in any case. That should at least get you thinking and questioning.

The point posting the link wasn't so much to just flat out make the case the U.S is indisputably the greatest threat to world peace, which seems to be a valid fact the world feels the U.S is more likely to be an obstacle in achieving world peace than Iraq, but to show how divided and increasingly unilateral and isolationist the U.S has become from the world, and the consequences that could bring.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton

"You'll find something that's enough to keep you
But if the bright lights don't receive you
You should turn yourself around and come back home" MB20

Mistletoe Angel
Deputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 5 Tours
Member Empyrean
since 12-17-2000
Posts 34089
City of Roses


109 posted 01-09-2005 02:53 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

Huan Yi:

The initial point I was making regarding Steven Milloy's article was simply that Steven Milloy is biased. (And not just because he works for Fox News either)

He is an opportunist who clearly, like I like to dish out the dirt on Bush and Balladeer likes to dish out the dirt on Kofi Annan, finds every opportunity he can to blame environmentalists in furthering his own junk science agenda, and for political and social gain.

In my humble opinion, I don't agree with everything Greenpeace does (I've never volunteered for them, I volunteer for Sierra Club). I thought "The Day After Tomorrow" was one of the worst movies of 2004 simply because, even I believe, extreme weather isn't going to get THAT extreme, and I definitely find it discredible when their official web-site promotes a video clip from that film to their project.

But that's just it. Milloy is no different on the right than some of these environmental organizations are on the left. Milloy has admitted in his very own words he doesn't care or read what  environmentalists say, which reveals his clear, bold bias, and that is a huge problem.

The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) is currently under fire, as is Merck, for the historical recall of Vioxx, and when some whistleblower Dr. David Graham had found out in advance Vioxx could increase risk of heart attack by as much as five times, the FDA continued to dismiss his research as "junk science" and even tried to silence him until Vioxx-related heart attacks occurred all throughout the nation.

And with the way the FDA is accelerating drug approval, it should be alarming there may be another Vioxx lost in the shuffle.

Matters like these cannot be solved by the  scientists alone, nor by the Junkman. It's time we had someone who is willing to listen and care from both sides.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton



"You'll find something that's enough to keep you
But if the bright lights don't receive you
You should turn yourself around and come back home" MB20

[This message has been edited by Mistletoe Angel (01-09-2005 05:09 PM).]

Huan Yi
Member Ascendant
since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


110 posted 01-09-2005 02:55 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

Noah,

“What I find far more incredible than that is that some are actually comparing Iraq to World War II.

It seems that's all those who have a deep resentment or hatred of pacifists do. They take a previous major quagmire, and apply it to the current situation in a defensive-offensive type of manuevering.’

World War II was a “previous major quagmire”?

Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 05-19-99
Posts 9708
Michigan, US


111 posted 01-09-2005 03:18 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
Milloy has admitted in his very own words he doesn't care or read what  environmentalists say, which reveals his clear, bold bias, and that is a huge problem.

You've twisted what he said, Noah, which does nothing but lessen your own credibility. What Milloy implied was that environmentalists are like the little boy who cried wolf a few too many times and was subsequently ignored because of it. And he's probably right.

What Milloy forgets, and what you should be arguing instead of trying to misrepresent him, is that the little boy was eventually right. I suspect both the environmentalists and those who no longer hear their hyperbole still have lessons to learn from the story.

quote:
World War II was a “previous major quagmire”?

Which of the three words would you dispute, John?
Huan Yi
Member Ascendant
since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


112 posted 01-09-2005 03:25 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

Ron,

“Encyclopedia article

A quagmire (from "quake" + "mire") is, literally, shaky, miry ground; as a political term used to describe a foreign military campaign in which there is either no foreseeable possibility of victory or the objectives are unclearly defined, and at the same time no clear exit strategy has been formulated in the absence of victory.”

http://www.onelook.com/?w=quagmire&ls=a


And we both know what war the term refers back to when used.

John
Huan Yi
Member Ascendant
since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


113 posted 01-09-2005 03:36 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

Noah,

“Perhaps, but I also believe our own media always tends to give conservative estimates of casualties in fear of a greater uprising of sentiment.”

Who in the media do you consider most fearful, Dan Rather, Bill Moyer, Charles Rose, who?

“Regardless of fact, your compass always goes back to America is evil North.

No, my compass always goes back to the Bush Administration as a corrupt administration getting away with murder.”

Thank you.
Mistletoe Angel
Deputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 5 Tours
Member Empyrean
since 12-17-2000
Posts 34089
City of Roses


114 posted 01-09-2005 05:23 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

You've twisted what he said, Noah, which does nothing but lessen your own credibility. What Milloy implied was that environmentalists are like the little boy who cried wolf a few too many times and was subsequently ignored because of it. And he's probably right.

What Milloy forgets, and what you should be arguing instead of trying to misrepresent him, is that the little boy was eventually right. I suspect both the environmentalists and those who no longer hear their hyperbole still have lessons to learn from the story.


Ron, look at this following excerpt from Milloy's October 7th, 2004 article (and yes, it's from Fox News itself)
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,134814,00.html

"So I pay no attention to what so-called environmentalists say about Bush. Their attacks usually don't present the facts fairly and are designed to politicize and polarize voters."

Is that, or is that not, precisely the point I was making?

When you're the "Junkman", surely your job would be to clean up and take out the trash, right? How can you take out the trash when you don't even pay attention to the garbage that's coming in? It's like after reading a certain number of previous reports and stories, he now has gone cold turkey on all the scientific community in general and he just assumes all science is junk and just lets it slide on a conveyor belt trash compactor strategy.

Right or wrong the environmentalists are, while it doesn't help to also keep crying wolf, it also doesn't help to just sit around with your arms crossed and wait for some sign of maturity. Involvement is development, and when Milloy himself is counter-crying wolf, nothing is being accomplished.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton

"You'll find something that's enough to keep you
But if the bright lights don't receive you
You should turn yourself around and come back home" MB20

Mistletoe Angel
Deputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 5 Tours
Member Empyrean
since 12-17-2000
Posts 34089
City of Roses


115 posted 01-09-2005 05:29 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

Noah,

“Perhaps, but I also believe our own media always tends to give conservative estimates of casualties in fear of a greater uprising of sentiment.”

Who in the media do you consider most fearful, Dan Rather, Bill Moyer, Charles Rose, who?


Bill Moyer is really the only one of those three I've ever really turned to. I've never cared for Rather or Rose. (Bill Moyer retired a couple weeks ago from NOW)

But I'd certainly consider Rupert Murdoch the most fearful.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton

"You'll find something that's enough to keep you
But if the bright lights don't receive you
You should turn yourself around and come back home" MB20

Mistletoe Angel
Deputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 5 Tours
Member Empyrean
since 12-17-2000
Posts 34089
City of Roses


116 posted 01-09-2005 05:36 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

Ron,

“Encyclopedia article

A quagmire (from "quake" + "mire") is, literally, shaky, miry ground; as a political term used to describe a foreign military campaign in which there is either no foreseeable possibility of victory or the objectives are unclearly defined, and at the same time no clear exit strategy has been formulated in the absence of victory.”
http://www.onelook.com/?w=quagmire&ls=a  

And we both know what war the term refers back to when used.

John


I think you took my word usage too seriously.

Quagmire is also simply a word for any major predicament or difficult time.

But, in political terms, Iraq is definitely a quagmire already to me, and yes, otherwise known as "Vietnam II" in that it is a war we cannot win.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton


"You'll find something that's enough to keep you
But if the bright lights don't receive you
You should turn yourself around and come back home" MB20
Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 05-19-99
Posts 9708
Michigan, US


117 posted 01-09-2005 09:40 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
"So I pay no attention to what so-called environmentalists say about Bush. Their attacks usually don't present the facts fairly and are designed to politicize and polarize voters."

There's an implied "because" in there, Noah. He pays no attention to environmentalists because they often don't present the facts fairly. A bit like the way you're trying to present his words to us?

If you want Milloy, and those like him, to listen to you and those like you, clearly you should try to be more fair. The line between passion and fanaticism is a thin one.

quote:
It's like after reading a certain number of previous reports and stories, he now has gone cold turkey on all the scientific community in general and he just assumes all science is junk and just lets it slide on a conveyor belt trash compactor strategy.

You're doing it again.

No one was talking about the scientific community. The topic was environmentalists and, I'm sorry Noah, but you can't just create synonyms at will. Environmentalists are activists, not scientists (the fact that some scientists are also environmentalists doesn't make the obverse true). Most wouldn't know an ablation from an inversion if it bit them in the nimbostratus.
Huan Yi
Member Ascendant
since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


118 posted 01-10-2005 01:28 AM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

Noah,

“Quagmire is also simply a word for any major predicament or difficult time.”

Please provide your source for this definition.
Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 05-19-99
Posts 9708
Michigan, US


119 posted 01-10-2005 11:19 AM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

It's called a metaphor, John. Since writers devise them as they write, metaphors seldom have (or require) sources. Extricating one's self from a quagmire is difficult and unwelcome, but certainly not the impossibility your quote seemed to imply. I, for one, understood Noah's meaning quite clearly. I'm sorry you didn't, but fail to understand why picking nits should be more important to you than the real issues?
Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


120 posted 01-10-2005 07:30 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

quote:
"So I pay no attention to what so-called environmentalists say about Bush. Their attacks usually don't present the facts fairly and are designed to politicize and polarize voters."


How does one present facts fairly? They are either presented or they are wrong.

I have no doubt that Milloy is biased, that he means what he says.

Let's say The Day after Tomorrow scenarion comes true, environmentalists will say, "I told you so," and Milloy will argue that it's their fault.

Huan Yi
Member Ascendant
since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


121 posted 01-10-2005 07:58 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

Ron,

"It's called a metaphor, John. Since writers devise them as they write, metaphors seldom have (or require) sources.  Extricating one's self from a quagmire is difficult and unwelcome, but certainly not the impossibility your quote seemed to imply. I, for one, understood Noah's meaning quite clearly. I'm sorry you didn't, but fail to understand why picking nits should be more important to you than the real issues?"

I thought the word’s usage might have something to
do with it’s definition or especially its understood meaning
acquired and as used in recent decades, (thereby
revealing the perspective from which the event was
perceived); my mistake. It would have been easier
if he had written that World War II was a previous
major bowl of spaghetti or pizza.  But from now on,
I will also understand that quagmire is also simply
a word, but particularly a neutral metaphor for any
major predicament or difficult time.  

As to the real issues, what’s the point:

“No, my compass always goes back to the Bush Administration as a corrupt administration getting away with murder.”


John
Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


122 posted 01-10-2005 08:30 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

This is incorrect:

quote:
“Democratic nations seldom go to war willingly.  The natural instinct of voters is to preserve peace whenever possible.  Aided by a free press, there is also never a shortage of those ready to suggest alternatives to conflict. Yet sometimes war is inevitable.  This is most obviously true when a nation is attacked.  For some there is no other legitimate reason for war.  Others believe that hostile intent on the part of other countries is also sufficient cause.?


Historically, Athens under Pericles, Americans and the Spanish/American War, Europeans and WWI, Japan (technically, a democracy at the time) during the Russo/Japanese war, and following WWI, Americans again in the Gulf War I, and, hell, Gulf War II.

Biologically, there are 4 basic instincts (the four f's). Fight starts with an F, Peace starts with a P.

---

IBC does not refute the Lancet study (Did you read what they wrote) and Kaplan takes a statistical standard to pretend the numbers aren't there. Contested, yes. Refuted, no.

Huan Yi
Member Ascendant
since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


123 posted 01-10-2005 09:01 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi


Brad:

“This is incorrect:”

Then David Gordon’s life has been spent in
coming to a mistake.


Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


124 posted 01-10-2005 09:23 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

No, he just wasn't listening when his high school English teacher told him that it's really not a good idea to begin with unsupported generalizations.

 
 Post A Reply Post New Topic   Go to the Next Oldest/Previous Topic Return to Topic Page Go to the Next Newest Topic 
All times are ET (US) Top
  User Options
>> Discussion >> The Alley >> Tsunami: Political Issue?   [ Page: 1  2  3  4  5  6  7  ] Format for Better Printing EMail to a Friend Not Available
Print Send ECard

 

pipTalk Home Page | Main Poetry Forums

How to Join | Member's Area / Help | Private Library | Search | Contact Us | Today's Topics | Login
Discussion | Tech Talk | Archives | Sanctuary



© Passions in Poetry and netpoets.com 1998-2013
All Poetry and Prose is copyrighted by the individual authors