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Unbelievable

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Aenimal
Member Rara Avis
since 11-18-2002
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the ass-end of space


75 posted 01-18-2005 01:01 PM       View Profile for Aenimal   Email Aenimal   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Aenimal

on the feedback page:


"Among the types of feedback we most especially welcome are corrections and suggestions for our site and reports of how you made use of the information you found here. And of course, we want to know immediately if you experience technical problems with our web site.

If your question or concern was not listed, please complete our online feedback form"
Alicat
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since 05-23-99
Posts 4277
Coastal Texas


76 posted 01-18-2005 01:13 PM       View Profile for Alicat   Email Alicat   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alicat

Ah, thanks Aenimal.  Time to upgrade this system and my glasses.

Did manage to send along the suggestion that the ACLU webmasters correct their Freedom of Speech page.
Aenimal
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since 11-18-2002
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the ass-end of space


77 posted 01-18-2005 04:17 PM       View Profile for Aenimal   Email Aenimal   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Aenimal

lol no problem Ali
Alicat
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since 05-23-99
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78 posted 01-18-2005 08:56 PM       View Profile for Alicat   Email Alicat   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alicat

Well, seems this story is finally getting some attention.  Hannity and Colmes will have a segment on it tonight.  Now, I don't normally watch that show, though they do have some good discussions.  The reason being those rude people who shout down and speak over those with whom they disagree, including the hosts from time to time.
Denise
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79 posted 01-18-2005 09:33 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Message sent. Am I an 'activist' now?

I also suggested that they begin to defend against freedom of religious exercise infringements as zealosly as they do with what they perceive to be separation of church and state issues. They state, at least, that they believe that it is the protection of both that guarantees religious liberty.

quote:
The free exercise clause of the First Amendment guarantees the right to practice one's religion free of government interference. The establishment clause requires the separation of church and state. Combined, they ensure religious liberty.

http://www.aclu.org/ReligiousLiberty/ReligiousLibertyMain.cfm


And I told them that I would be watching the webpage for the needed correction on the Freedom of Speech page and that I would be watching the newspapers for news that they will end their silence and do the right thing and speak out against the hate crime charges levied against the Philly 4 (actually it is the Philly 5...the 5th is a 17 year-old girl who is being processed through juvenile court on the hate crime charge) for reading bible verses that state homosexual behavior is sinful to practicioners of homosexual behavior.

And I also told them that I would love to be proven wrong that I suspect that they have a bias against the expression of certain religious beliefs.

Who knows, if they prove me wrong maybe I'll become a 'card carrying member'.

It will be interesting to see how long it takes for the webpage correction. But I'm really not holding my breath on the other issue.
Denise
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80 posted 01-18-2005 09:45 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Thanks, Ali! I'm off to watch it. The segment is coming up next.
Denise
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81 posted 01-18-2005 10:00 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Well, I'm glad it's getting national attention now. This won't be something that the city will be able to sweep under the rug.
Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


82 posted 01-19-2005 01:28 AM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

LR mentioned this once.

But you get the feeling at times that media types actually pay attention to these pages.



Denise
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83 posted 01-20-2005 09:42 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

You just never know, Brad. Maybe one of those Fox producers is a poet that peruses the blue pages! And still it took almost a month to go national!

The ACLU has updated their Freedom of Speech page already! Didn't think it would happen that fast!
http://www.aclu.org/FreeSpeech/FreeSpeechMain.cfm

I sent a note of thanks along with a suggestion on how they could improve their presentation of the First Amendment, like quoting it in its entirety instead of enumerating all the rights except the first one listed, giving that one only a "..." , as in "It's no accident that freedom of speech, just like freedom of religion, is protected by the First Amendment...yadda, yadda, yadda"

Yes, I know, they have a Religious Freedom page, but they don't quote the First Amendment anywhere on that page that I could find anyway.

Well, they've made a step in the right direction, gotta give them that. But I'm still not holding my breath on the other issue.
Alicat
Member Elite
since 05-23-99
Posts 4277
Coastal Texas


84 posted 01-20-2005 09:52 PM       View Profile for Alicat   Email Alicat   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alicat

Well, I was darn near speechless, and really didn't believe they would move so quickly.  From their feedback page, I sent a note of appreciation for their prompt attention to factual record instead of perceived bias.
Denise
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85 posted 01-20-2005 10:23 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Thank you, my fellow activist!
Denise
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86 posted 01-21-2005 08:31 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Here's the latest news I found:


quote:
The four adult defendants who are part of the "Philadelphia 5," Christians who have been criminally charged for preaching at a homosexual event last fall, won a court battle today when a judge removed the bail requirement that they stay at least 100 feet away from any homosexual gathering.

"The judge dissolved the bail restriction," the defendants' attorney Scott Shields told WND.

Court of Common Pleas Judge Pamela Dembe ruled the bail requirement was an "unusual restriction on a person's right to speech."

"We're gratified with the ruling," Shields said. "This judge recognized that my clients definitely do have the right to speak freely about any issue they want, especially in the public square."

Besides ruling on the bail restriction, Dembe viewed the videotape of the OutFest protest and said she could not see any criminal activity being committed.

Brian Fahling, senior trial attorney for the American Family Association Center for Law & Policy, is also working with the Philly 5.

"It is clear that Judge Dembe understands and values the First Amendment; and because of that, she recognized that what is depicted in that video which captures everything at issue in this case, as we have been saying all along, is classic peaceful First Amendment activity."

Discussing the judge's ruling, Shields stated, "It was a good day for freedom."


http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=42492


quote:
A pro-family group in Pennsylvania is taking to task legislators who promised that adding "sexual orientation" to the state's hate-crimes law would not infringe upon the First Amendment rights of Christians.

The American Family Association of Pennsylvania points to the arrest and charging of five Christian who evangelized at a Philadelphia homosexual event. One of the charges the protesters face is "ethnic intimidation," possible only because "sexual orientation" was added to the hate-crimes law in 2002.

"Our prediction of the arrest of Christians under this law became true in October. We are now asking for an explanation from legislators who voted in favor of the bill. Secondly, for the protection of Pennsylvanians' free-speech rights, we are asking for a repeal of the law signed by Governor Mark Schweiker on Dec. 3, 2002," Diane Gramley, president of the pro-family group, said in a statement.

In November 2002, the Pennsylvania Legislature changed the hate-crimes law, adding "actual or perceived sexual orientation" and "gender or gender identity." AFA says legislators at the time assured concerned Pennsylvanians that the additions would not stifle the free-speech rights of Christians who criticize the homosexual lifestyle.

At the time of the debate, legislators claimed the law would be used only in the case of physical harm.

Rep. Mark Cohen, a Democrat from Philadelphia County, state in 2002: "Mr. Speaker, it seems to me that imaginations are running rather freely in this debate by opponents of this bill. This bill is not – is not – about calling names. This bill is about breaking bones and causing serious injury or death. This bill is not about what ministers or Sunday School teachers say. This bill is about what thugs, hooligans and murderers do. This bill is not about jokes that are offensive or tasteless. This bill is about blood in the streets."

Referring to the charging of the Christians with ethnic intimidation, AFA now shoots back: "Where are the thugs, hooligans and murderers? Where is the blood on the streets of Philadelphia?"

Another supporter of the bill during debate, Rep. Steven Nickol, a York County Republican, said, "So I think it pretty well speaks to the fact that what we are doing here is not outlawing fighting words or outlawing ethnic slurs or doing anything of that nature. What we are dealing with here are actual crimes committed against someone, not words."

Commented Gramley: "[The protesters] were simply exercising their First Amendment rights. The only way to restore the freedom of speech for all Pennsylvanians is to repeal the hate-crimes law that was passed in November 2002. The assurances of those in favor of its passage have proven to be empty promises."


http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=42372

Huan Yi
Member Ascendant
since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


87 posted 01-21-2005 09:03 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi


"If a person can walk into the middle of the town square and express his or her views without fear of arrest, imprisonment, or physical harm, then that person is living in a free society, not a fear society.”

Natan Sharansky

Denise
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88 posted 01-22-2005 03:06 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

I agree, John. And if a person can't do that, then we don't live in a free society, period.
Mistletoe Angel
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since 12-17-2000
Posts 34089
City of Roses


89 posted 01-22-2005 03:32 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

Absolutely agree with Sharansky's quote.

And that means all individuals and protesters. In other words, no more "free-speech zones" like at the DNC or Pier 57's like at the RNC.

I'm glad that this issue is getting national exposure because I think it's important we recognize the right to expressing our views and dissent as a society and taking value in it.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton

"You'll find something that's enough to keep you
But if the bright lights don't receive you
You should turn yourself around and come back home" MB20

Huan Yi
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since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


90 posted 01-28-2005 05:42 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

“SALEM, Ore. — Two green Adopt-A-Highway signs reading "American Nazi Party" have popped up on a rural road a few miles from downtown, and it's got people upset with the county for agreeing to put up the signs and worried about their neighborhood. ..

County officials said they know people are upset. But free-speech guarantees in the Constitution prevented them from turning down the person who signed the American Nazi Party up with the local Adopt-A-Highway program.”

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,145725,00.html


Denise
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91 posted 01-29-2005 10:07 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

I wonder what would happen if a church tried to do that, sponser a stretch of highway? I'm pretty sure you'd hear from the ACLU then. And they wouldn't be siding with the church either.

But check out the Free Speech page. They've updated it to include the entire First Amendment. Wonders never cease!
Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


92 posted 02-18-2005 06:06 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=42905

The charges have been dropped.

quote:
"We are one of the very few countries that protects unpopular speech," Dembe said after viewing a videotape of the arrests. "And that means that Nazis can March in Skokie, Ill. ... That means that the Ku Klux Klan can march where they wish to. We cannot stifle speech because we don't want to hear it, or we don't want to hear it now."


Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


93 posted 02-18-2005 06:12 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/polls/former_poll.asp?POLL_ID=1485
Denise
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94 posted 02-18-2005 07:21 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Yea!!!!!!  Sometimes justice does prevail! Even without the help of the ACLU. Thanks for sharing the great news, Brad!

I'm glad the case went to Judge Dembe. I know her from my days when I worked at the library (she is on the Board of Directors there). She's one judge who has her head screwed on straight regarding the Constitution. I'm also glad for the fact that a video was available of the events that transpired thanks to a film maker who was there doing a documentary and caught it all on tape, proving that all the charges were baseless.

We don't have to like what some say, we don't have to agree with what some say, but they do have the Constitutionally protected right to say it, just as everyone has the Constitutionally protected right to disagree with them in return. Nobody should be prosecuted for expressing their thoughts, or beliefs in the public square.
 
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