It's a Wonderful Life? - pipTalk Forums

Huan Yi
Senior Member
since 10-12-2004
Posts 1737
Illinois

0 posted 11-28-2004 12:53 AM

Inappropriate content?

We’ve all seen the movie which originally
came out in 1947. Let’s update it for modern times.

For one thing, if any teacher tells her student
that every time a bell rings an angel gets his wings
that teacher and the school system are going
to have a court date with the ACLU.

Susan Caldwell

Member Ascendant
since 12-27-2002
Posts 6230
Florida

2 posted 11-28-2004 10:27 AM

Inappropriate content?

no movie in modern time.

No banks are owned by the small businessman today...

But Trump does own a city.

*shrugs*

"cast me gently into the morning, for the night has been unkind"
~Sarah McLachlan~

serenity blaze
Member Seraphic
since 02-02-2000
Posts 21457
NEW ORLEANS

4 posted 11-28-2004 05:05 PM

Inappropriate content?

*laughing @ Ali*

But actually, you might be surprised, John.

My daughter's journal was confiscated by a teacher last year, and yep, I was called in for a conference.

After being informed that my daughter needed a psychlogical evaluation, I asked the counselor if she had a degree in psychology.

Um, no. She didn't.

She then pointed out some drawings of pentacles and such, and suggested that perhaps my daughter would benefit from religious training.

*smiling wide*

You should have seen the look on her face when I informed that perhaps it hadn't occurred to her that what she was viewing was the result of religious instruction as I happen to be a practicing witch.

But yes, that is when I stopped laughing and informed her that if I discovered that my daughter suffered any prejudicial treatment in a public school, they would hear from my attorney. (Okay, so I don't happen to have an attorney, but she got the idea.)

And that was just the summation of my speech.

(My kids always behaved at school out of self-preservation--they do not want me talking to the staff.)

Brad
Moderator
Member Elite
since 08-20-99
Posts 4149
Jejudo, South Korea

5 posted 11-28-2004 07:00 PM

Inappropriate content?

quote:
For one thing, if any teacher tells her student
that every time a bell rings an angel gets his wings
that teacher and the school system are going
to have a court date with the ACLU.

Hmmm, if the teacher actually believed that (based on a movie), does anybody believe he or she actually should teach?

ice
Member Elite
since 05-17-2003
Posts 2090
Pennsylvania

8 posted 11-29-2004 08:14 AM

Inappropriate content?

ESP

I am taking your question seriously, hoping your query is not sarcasm.

ACLU stands for American Civil Liberties Union...
A group of about 400,000 people (many of them attorneys) who are concerned about your civil liberties..

Their quest in a nut shell is...

To raise the consciousness of the general public about the civil liberties guaranteed you by the Bill of Rights,  and the United States Constitution...
They monitor the behavior of federal, state, and local governments, and discourage civil liberty violations.

They are a hated group, especially by those on the far right of the political spectrum..(something I cannot understand?)

I believe they have good purpose because they bring to light the flaws in our constitution, I believe in part to push for changes in governmental laws by congress and local authorities..unlike the supreme court, who cannot make recommendation of law changes, even under their breath.

I believe that the media likes when the AClU is bashed, it is good press, and sells their product...this is unfortunate, but it is common that only the seeming bad news about a person or organization is pronounced with vigor in  most news medias.

__________ice
    ><>

Alicat
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Member Elite
since 05-23-99
Posts 3818
Coastal Texas

9 posted 11-29-2004 09:51 AM

Inappropriate content?

There are times when I like and loathe the ACLU, depending one what their leadership is doing and how they are steering that organization. When going after hate groups, discriminatory college groups, and voter intimidation by any party, I really like them. When they single-mindedly focus on removing all traces of religion from which this country was founded in part, I loathe them. For the longest time, I thought the ACLU would defend you in court, irregardless of how heinous your alleged crimes were, so long as you were not a Christian or a Jew. That was based on observation.

Like most organizations, they started with very good intent. Nowadays, they are many times when they seem to lose focus, somehow believing this Republic is a Democracy, where the rights of the few always outweigh the rights of the many, instead of vice-versa.

hush
Senior Member
since 05-27-2001
Posts 1392
Ohio, USA

11 posted 11-30-2004 01:00 PM

Inappropriate content?

Well, seeings how that poem is just terribly offensive, I'm glad parents complained.

'And anytime my head I bow
Becomes a Federal matter now.'

Nobody ever said students aren't allowed to individually pray, on their own time. What's wrong is a school presenting religious material (which is what this principle did) in a preaching manner, in any manner not solely designed to educate unbiasedly. I studies the Bible in high school- from a literature standpoint, though- not as scripture.

'We're allowed to cuss and dress like freaks,
And pierce our noses, tongues and cheeks.'

Freaks? I personally would have had words with any adult who condones the use of that word in conjunction with students. It's just entirely innappropriate.

So if anybody's whining that this trash isn't allowed in schools- I say good riddance.

Huan Yi
Senior Member
since 10-12-2004
Posts 1737
Illinois

12 posted 11-30-2004 03:00 PM

Inappropriate content?

Today I hear the ACLU is going to take
a school system to court because it asked
a student to take off or wear inside out
a shirt that said “I’m Gay”. In New Jersey,
a school has decided to prohibit the singing
of all Christmas carols. There is a movement
to prohibit even the music without words.

[This message has been edited by Huan Yi (11-30-2004 09:19 PM).]

hush
Senior Member
since 05-27-2001
Posts 1392
Ohio, USA

13 posted 12-01-2004 07:58 PM

Inappropriate content?

Why shouldn't a student be able to wear a shirt that says "I'm gay?"

I'm not sure how I feel about the Christmas carol thing- I don't necessarily think it's appropriate for public schools to sing the ones about Christ being our savior, et al. I personally don't see how the secualar, santa-claus ones are really a problem, but I guss I can see why a Jew or a Muslim might be offended at their kid going to a school that is having its students participate in a holiday they don't celebrate...

Alicat
Moderator
Member Elite
since 05-23-99
Posts 3818
Coastal Texas

15 posted 12-01-2004 10:49 PM

Inappropriate content?

And in some areas of the country, for their cultural holiday parades, they include every group but the Protestant/Catholic faiths. Who's to say Christianity isn't a culture, when gay/lesbian, ethnic, social, and political ones are? After all, for some, it's a methodology for living.

Alicat
Moderator
Member Elite
since 05-23-99
Posts 3818
Coastal Texas

18 posted 12-02-2004 11:38 PM

Inappropriate content?

I'm sure in certain parts of this country (part of that 'one nation under God' which the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals wanted to do away with), the kids are now taught 'Season's Greetings' and Kwanzaa instead of Christmas or Candlemass. If this trend continues, the matter will be moot in a generation or two, when the ACLU and its supporters wipe out 4 centuries of Christian holidays in this country in the sacred name of Separation of Church and State.

Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 05-19-99
Posts 7004
Colon, MI USA

20 posted 12-03-2004 05:36 PM

Inappropriate content?

quote:
... when the ACLU and its supporters wipe out 4 centuries of Christian holidays in this country in the sacred name of Separation of Church and State.

I doubt many want to wipe out any religious holidays, Ali. Some of us just think they should be observed in the home and church instead of state buildings. Religion is just one of those rare things that can't be equitably dictated by majority rule, and the preponderance of Christians in our country shouldn't make it an official religion.

Brad
Moderator
Member Elite
since 08-20-99
Posts 4149
Jejudo, South Korea

21 posted 12-03-2004 06:01 PM

Inappropriate content?

Well, let's see. I'm pretty sure we all know that the holiday wasn't Christian in origin, right? We all know that the 'under God' phrase was added in the fifties, right? We all know that what we're talking about is the separation of Church and State, not the end of Christianity (and we talk about this when America is going through something along the lines of a Great Revival?), right?

But let me get this straight, John believes that when a bell rings, an angel gets wings is something that should be taught in school?

Ali thinks that other holidays for different faiths shouldn't even be mentioned?

I don't have any problems with religion in school, but you have to teach it, not insinuate that homosexuality is the result of no prayer in school.

I'm pretty sure I've mentioned this before, but a teacher from my old school district was picketed and insulted because he taught the Bible as literature, not as sacred text. What seems to happen, and I don't really understand why, is that differences are always sharpened to the point where you have Christians denying Christianity to different Christians.

But let's at least get out of the silliness that ACLU wants to ban Christianity (Unless you've discovered some document called the Secret Protocols of the Order of Liberalism?). There is nothing in the writings of that organization that would lead to that conclusion unless you believe that religious freedom and pluralism are best served under a theocratic state.

Now, if somebody here would be willing to say that, that would be interesting.

Alicat
Moderator
Member Elite
since 05-23-99
Posts 3818
Coastal Texas

22 posted 12-03-2004 06:30 PM

Inappropriate content?

My thoughts on 'traditional' holiday music vanishing in a generation or two is a reference to children being taught and instructed that it's not Christmas, but Season's Greetings and Gift Giving Day, abounding in Holiday Cheer.  Never mind that holiday is a contraction of holy day.  But I digress.  Christian faith based music being banned from being played in schools, performed at schools, or performed by school students in public venues.  The reason I did not mention other religions is quite simple: they aren't nearly as targeted as are Christian holiday themes.

I wasn't raised Christian, but still enjoyed the music during this time of year as a child.  My dad is as far from Christian as you can get, but loves Christian-themed holiday music.  He can't stand the more secular (non-religious) themed ones.  We used to go to school pageants, the county courthouse's gazebo, public library, and other public/state places, and simply listen to the pure beauty of the music, irregardless of if it was a cappella, instrumental, or a mix.  Such things are becoming a rarity now with the adamant 'Separation of Church and State' viewpoint that some have.

By the by, I don't hold with theocracies.  And like it or not, Catholic/Protestantism has been part of this country since the Spanish Missions of the 1500's.

Kaoru

Member Elite
since 06-07-2003
Posts 3226
where the wild flowers grow

24 posted 12-06-2004 12:05 AM

Inappropriate content?

Well, let's not forget that a big majority of public schools allow a group called "Prayer around the Flag". This group holds prayers around the American flag every morning before the first bell (the flag being on school grounds, of course). Not only that, but they are allowed to post flyers on their lockers for all to see. If you want to join, you can, the flyer tells you when and where to meet.

I understand that religious freedom is important, but we have seperation of church and state for a reason. Some people are easily offended.

I for one, believe that if I had some sort of Satanic prayer group in my highschool, that I wouldn't be granted the same freedoms. Satanism wouldn't be considered a religion, even though it is. Huh...

But hey, that's the way things are...could be worse.

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