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Anybody want to trade places?

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Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


0 posted 11-20-2004 11:05 AM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

quote:
People see things differently. The people who elected the government of the United States see things differently from those who trained them in how to weigh public issues. "Our colleges have become less marketplaces of ideas than churches in which you have to be a true believer to get a seat in the pews," writes Stephen H. Balch, president of the National Association of Scholars. On the other hand, those who get only standing room in the academies, get also the White House, the House of Representatives, and the Senate.


Buckley, NR
http://www.nationalreview.com/buckley/wfb200411191322.asp

Tell you what, conservatives can have a seven to one advantage on campuses, if we can get control of those three houses (and the future judiciary, he forgot to mention that.)
LoveBug
Deputy Moderator 5 Tours
Moderator
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since 01-08-2000
Posts 5015


1 posted 11-20-2004 01:30 PM       View Profile for LoveBug   Email LoveBug   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LoveBug

I'm on the campus of West Virginia University, and I just don't see very many conservatives here. Sure, the general population is more conservative, but the students are wayyy liberal. The republican president won the county and the state though! The democrats, on the other hand, won everything else. It's a strange occurance, but hey... it's WV. We burn couches to celebrate football wins.. anything can happen

Course, I'm usually on the Arts campus, so it might be a bit scewed..   You can come switch with me anytime you want. I have plenty of papers and finals with your name on them, Brad

Oh, make me Thine forever
And should I fainting be
Lord, let me never ever
Outlive my love for Thee
Tim
Senior Member
since 06-08-99
Posts 1801


2 posted 11-20-2004 04:47 PM       View Profile for Tim   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Tim

I am honestly surprised at a seven to one ratio, I would think it much higher.

Every study I have seen indicates the percentage to be much higher, in the 90% and above range.  That may be studies restricted to our more prestigous universities, although I would not be surprised of at least a 7 to 1 over all institutions of higher learning nationwide.

When you add in the pusillanimousness factor, the diversity of opinion a student in a university is going to encounter in the classroom is even less restricted.

It is somewhat ironic that tenure theoretically exists to insure freedom of expression and acts to the opposite effect.

Would I therefore want to change professors for politicians and vice versa?  No, I like the give and take of the political process and freedom of expression allowed in the political arena compared to the more closed mindset of higher academia.  

You would have to also consider how the academic would function is a world in which there is accountability.  

I know this sounds negative, and I suppose it is.  On the other side, I enjoyed a great many of my professors and thought them to be intelligent well meaning individuals who had a profession they chose and worked at as they believed.  By the same token, I found that made college and law school easy to succeed at, in that you just had to regurgitate the political and sociological views of your professor and then avoid presenting a position contrary to their world views which would result in a lower grade.  I would not hitch my wagon to many of them if they were forced to function out in the real world.

The real world, including politics, does not function within the academic model of analytical and theoretical models.  Politics operates on Main Street on the concerns of those living there.  Those concerns are basic; how am I going to pay my bills and are my children going to fed and clothed; along with basic moral values involving religion and right and wrong.
Drugs, robbery, rape and murder look a lot different on the street than they do in a classrom.

Perhaps it is best politics be kept basic in that it avoids the extremes of ideology.
I have grown over the years to accept those extremes in the university setting as well as extremes existing in institutions on the far right because I have come to understand that most folks do reside in the middle and have the common sense to do what it takes to make things work for themselves and their families.

We come in contact with the extremes as we live our lives and then in the political process, everyone gets to jump in together, contribute, argue, rant, rave and then democracy is the result.

So Brad, I'll leave academians in universities where they function fine, but I'll stick with politicians in the political arena notwithstanding all their warts.
Skyfyre
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since 08-15-99
Posts 1966
Sitting in Michael's Lap


3 posted 11-20-2004 05:16 PM       View Profile for Skyfyre   Email Skyfyre   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Skyfyre

quote:
the pusillanimousness factor


Tim, I think you've just named my first novel.  

All I have to say on this subject is that it's easy to be unabashedly liberal and idealistic when you are responsible for no one but yourself and when your parents are footing the bill.  Many college students declare themselves politically - whether republican or democrat - without actually realizing (or caring) what their party stands for.

When you've got music stars and Hollywood actors urging you to vote liberal (and carefully avoiding any positions that have less than universal appeal), it's easy to see why young people might sway to the left early on.  

I'm not suggesting that people automatically switch to Republican as they age and gain more responsibility; merely suggesting that Democrat is marketed as the "cooler" of the two parties, and thus is more likely to appeal to the younger crowd.
Not A Poet
Member Elite
since 11-03-1999
Posts 4427
Oklahoma, USA


4 posted 11-20-2004 05:36 PM       View Profile for Not A Poet   Email Not A Poet   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Not A Poet's Home Page   View IP for Not A Poet

I can honestly say that in my years as an undergraduate then as a graduate student, I rarely had an hint of a professor's political inclination. Nearly all that time was spent in the mathematics and physics schools though and that may be a partial reason. Later as a professor in the math school, I became aware of one professor's leaning. He was a conservative republican and most of the staff kidded him about it. He also was probably the most highly respected member though and his politics in no way detracted from the respect he received.

I don't think the same was true, at least not to the same extent, in other departments, specifically the social sciences.

Tim
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since 06-08-99
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5 posted 11-20-2004 06:40 PM       View Profile for Tim   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Tim

I suspect my double major in history and poli sci might influence my views and the situation was not to the extreme in law school though present.
Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


6 posted 11-20-2004 07:26 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

quote:
Would I therefore want to change professors for politicians and vice versa?  No, I like the give and take of the political process and freedom of expression allowed in the political arena compared to the more closed mindset of higher academia.


quote:
Perhaps it is best politics be kept basic in that it avoids the extremes of ideology.


You crack me up, Tim, you really do.

quote:
The real world, including politics, does not function within the academic model of analytical and theoretical models.  Politics operates on Main Street on the concerns of those living there.  Those concerns are basic; how am I going to pay my bills and are my children going to fed and clothed; along with basic moral values involving religion and right and wrong.


I don't know what academic model you're talking about, but many models are attempts to deal with exactly these problems. Other models are attempts to explain these problems in a way to deal with those problems.

What is forgotten here is that the concept of ideological nuetrality is a conservative ideological model.



But hey, Tim, at least you answered the question. The ivory tower sucks up many of the best and brightest and cuts them off from real political action (I have a friend who did a Marxist interpretation of Poe.).

Rorty, for instance, has argued against this again and again.

If you think about it, this is almost the best of all possible worlds for conservatives. Let the students get their liberal dose for four years (They don't listen anyway.) and then they can join the 'real' world.

What the hell are they complaining about?
  

Tim
Senior Member
since 06-08-99
Posts 1801


7 posted 11-20-2004 11:04 PM       View Profile for Tim   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Tim

I am glad I provide entertainment.  *smile*

I did not say academia sucks up some of the best and brightest, that is your view and did not say they are cut off from politics, it is just that a lot of them aren't and wouldn't be very good at it.  

It is more my view to deal realistically in politics you have to view the world in a far different mindset than most academians.   As the professor from Yale said recently, of course college professors support Kerry, we are all smart.  

And by the way, I do think it is of benefit for not only conservatives, but those with centrist views to attend a university and experience the views of the left.

One should be exposed to all views.

Just maybe perchance conservatives and middle of the roaders do listen in college, perhaps they just don't buy it.
 
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