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Huan Yi
Member Ascendant
since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


0 posted 11-18-2004 07:39 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi


Occasionally these days, Human Resource managers
will gather all the other employees and repeat the
company policy on sexual harassment which is pretty
standard from one company to the next.  In it there
is a prohibition, with threat of discipline and termination,
against “unwelcome sexual advances”.   “Unwelcome
sexual advances”?  I know the phrase is an acknowledgement
that romances leading to marriage can and have occurred
between employees.  Still, how does one distinguish a
welcome sexual advance?  What evidence, that will stand
in court, should one have that a sexual advance would be
welcomed?  Please illustrate with examples.
Cloud 9
Senior Member
since 11-05-2004
Posts 988
Ca


1 posted 11-18-2004 07:55 PM       View Profile for Cloud 9   Email Cloud 9   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Cloud 9

I work for a very small company and before this I worked for a very large company. There is a group of us that get a little flirty. All depends on your sense of humor. Some people take it to a level that wasn't intended for. Some people blow it off.

I understand that if you are being harrassed aggressively which I have seen and have been through with a couple of others then, yes it is wrong. This person was plain out asking us and harrassing us over email. Although, it did start out on a kidding level within the group of us. He is the only one that got aggressive more and more. He is the one that "doesn't play well with others."
Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 05-19-99
Posts 9708
Michigan, US


2 posted 11-18-2004 09:16 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
Although, it did start out on a kidding level within the group of us ...

Isn't that often what happens, though, when people joke about something that is ultimately very serious?

You see, the problem is that most aren't really kidding. What's ha-ha humorous about flirting, after all? Like the little boy dipping a girl's braids in an ink well, the harmless fun is a smokescreen. It hides different things for different people, I think, but it nonetheless hides. Why should we be surprised, or even offended, when one person, perhaps less socially graceful than others, mistakes what is being hidden? Misunderstandings, I think, are relatively rare when everyone is up front and honest.

Fun? Personally, I'd much rather see people play with loaded guns. It's substantially less dangerous.

As to John's original question, the answer is quite simple.

If you don't know the person well enough to know whether the advance will be welcome or unwelcome, then you don't know the person well enough even if it does turn out to be welcome.
Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


3 posted 11-19-2004 12:16 AM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Whatever happened to asking someone out for a cup of coffee?

Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 05-19-99
Posts 9708
Michigan, US


4 posted 11-19-2004 07:17 AM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

For me, Brad, that falls under the "up front and honest" category. Circumstances count, of course, but asking someone out is generally an expression of interest. No smokescreens.
Huan Yi
Member Ascendant
since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


5 posted 11-19-2004 07:40 AM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

Remember this distinction has to stand up
in a court of law before a judge and jury.
Give examples of  “welcome sexual advance”
that need be not proven by a subsequent marriage.

There was a situation in an R & D department
where the young lab technicians were engaged in
a variety of apparent relationships within
the department, (summarized by one executive
as: “everyone was playing, (I changed the verb),  around”).
Apparently a couple of those relationships
ended to the dissatisfaction of one or more
participants, sides were taken, and Human Resources
was then inundated with sexual harassment complaints
for actions predating the those disputes.

As an aside, in Rhode Island a divorced woman
successfully sued her lawyer, with whom she had had
an acknowledged sexual relationship, in civil court
for two hundred counts of rape, (at a thousand dollars
per incident), on the argument that she really only
slept with him because she felt if she didn’t he
wouldn’t work as hard as he did on her custody case.




Alicat
Member Elite
since 05-23-99
Posts 4277
Coastal Texas


6 posted 11-19-2004 09:48 AM       View Profile for Alicat   Email Alicat   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alicat

While working as a janitor at J.C. Penny, I found out one of the floor people was of Scottish ancestry.  So I told him a rather colorful joke about the kilt and we had a good laugh.  Later, from my understanding, he tells the joke to a female floor worker.  She finds out I first told it, and brought a sexual harassment charge against me, but not against him.  I had the rare priviledge [sic] of watching a very anti-male informational tape as well as giving my signature as a promise never to sexually harass any other worker with the added promise that the next infringment would lead to termination.  The odd thing is, I won Employee of the Month during all this.
 
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