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Where do we go from here?

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Midnitesun
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0 posted 10-30-2004 03:56 PM       View Profile for Midnitesun   Email Midnitesun   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Midnitesun

OK, so where do we go from here with this Palestinian/Israel issue?
How much of the Muslim world do you think is really willing to continue a lifetime/deathtime of terrorism?
Most of the Muslims I know don't want this fight to continue. Neither do most of the Israelis I know. Believe it or not, there are many active peace groups from both Palestinians and Israelis that are hoping we will help them, and not continue to constantly back militant right wing forces.
I had no doubt that when Ariel Sharon got elected all hell would break loose, that his election did not offer anything that would end in peaceful co-existence.
  
So, where should the rest of the world take this?
It's not just a battle of the USA/Israel vs  Muslims. The entire globe is involved, as you may remember, other countries, other nationalities are and will be targeted.
Please, I honestly believe we have a golden opportunity at this point in the timeline of human history, to begin the necessary changes to de-escalate.
Anyone out there with real life experience in de-fusing, de-escalation techniques, anti-gang techniques, negotiating skills...anything that seems to work? If so, you are greatly needed by the whole world.    
Aenimal
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1 posted 10-30-2004 05:09 PM       View Profile for Aenimal   Email Aenimal   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Aenimal

I think it's vital that we first focus on the main problem, the Israeli/Palastinean situation, not Jews vs the Muslim world. Two things that are absolutely essential in analyzing the crisis are unbiased media coverage in the west, and an understanding of the conflict's history.

As you mentioned Kacy, there are many groups in the area actively seeking peace. Both Palestineans and Israelis critical of their governments actions. Those are the voices that should be heard, not right wing extremists who's only solution is the slow extermination of the other.

And it's been all too easy to cast Palestineans as the villians in the crisis because of their acts of terrorism. As I mentioned earlier, there's a tendency to skirt around the Israeli role in the conflict. I'm not sure if its for fear of offending an ally or fear of an anti-semetism label. But we can't afford to overlook history, people have to realize the same means were used by Zionists in establishing dominance of the area.

So the first step, in my opinion? Establishing an understanding and most importantly a balance between the two culprits before we can fairly move forward.

PS essential reading on the matter, Uri Avnery, an Israeli writer/peace activist with Gush Shalom.
Huan Yi
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2 posted 10-30-2004 07:18 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

“Over 5 million Palestinian refugees scattered all over the planet demand the right to return to their homes in Palestine!

The Right of Return has a solid legal basis. The United Nations adopted Resolution 194 on December 11, 1948. Paragraph 11 states: "...the refugees wishing to return to their homes and live at peace with their neighbors should be permitted to do so at the earliest practicable date... compensation should be paid for the property of those choosing not to return."”

Home site picture description:

“A 1948 Palestinian refugee holding the key and ownership certificate to his home in Palestine which is now occupied by a Jewish family.”


http://www.al-awda.org.uk/

And by “Palestine” I don’t think they’re referring to the Gaza Strip
or the West Bank.

Midnitesun
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3 posted 10-30-2004 07:44 PM       View Profile for Midnitesun   Email Midnitesun   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Midnitesun

Now this is the kind of information the world's people need to be reading, not the hype and hyperbole mainstream media crap.
Thanks Raph, and John, for your replies. Raph, I have no doubt I would recognize a few faces in the peace group, as most of my Israeli friends are from a very left-wing liberal non-orthodox kibbutz near Haifa. They were always in the front lines when it came to being supportive of Palestinian rights. Some day, I hope to re-visit Israel and my friends at Kibbutz Ein Ha Horesh, near Hadera, Israel, about thirty five minutes by bus to Haifa.  

BTW, here is the link so others may read http://www.gush-shalom.org/english/index.html
and check out the cool pictures of the peace activists helping the locals pick olives

a wonderful sight, a wonderful site

It's worth your time to read the TRUTH statements by Uri Avnery.
Aenimal
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4 posted 10-30-2004 07:54 PM       View Profile for Aenimal   Email Aenimal   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Aenimal

http://www.counterpunch.org/avnery10252004.html

Uri's latest offering on the mess to come
Midnitesun
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5 posted 10-30-2004 08:02 PM       View Profile for Midnitesun   Email Midnitesun   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Midnitesun

thanks Raph, I haven't visited counterpunch in over a week, so I'm way overdue

I read that article. I never doubted it might come to this. *sigh* It's bringing back memories of hours and hours of discussions, often late into the night, on the kibbutz. And that was in 1972. So long ago, and yet as if it had been yesterday. We did not have religious services on that kibbutz. On the 'holy' days, I was given the great honor of reading a special prayer in front of all the kibbutzniks and volunteers, who came from Australia, New Zealand, Canada, South Africa, Switzerland, Swede, Holland, Denmark, Belgium, England and Wales, USA, and even Japan. As a volunteer worker, I was also honored by these people who asked me to organize a Christmas celebration for all the 'Christians' volunteers.
Funny, I was not Jewish or Christian, but an avowed agnostic at that time. (I still do not 'belong' to any organized religious group.)
It was a time I'll never forget. We were like a mini UN coalition some days LOL, but not without disputes. The council of elders would listen to a problem if there was a complaint, and make a decision that all would abide by, for the sake of unity. Many years later, as an active Bahai (I am no longer active) I experienced a similar circle of friendship that functioned at its best when everyone worked together for race unity teachings and celebrations.  
My point? Around the world, there are thousands who actively seek ways of communicating and working with peoples of different mindsets, ethnicities, political and economic differences.  I know that if we all focus on these types of groups, and actively support anti-defamation and anti-hatred groups, we can somehow find our peaceful pathways. I am not giving up hope, and the terrorists SHALL NOT PREVAIL unless we let them divide humanity into splinter groups of hatred and violence.


[This message has been edited by Midnitesun (10-30-2004 08:46 PM).]

Aenimal
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6 posted 10-30-2004 11:16 PM       View Profile for Aenimal   Email Aenimal   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Aenimal

Beautifully said Kacy
Mistletoe Angel
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7 posted 10-30-2004 11:48 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel



I absolutely agree, Kacy!



It is heartbreaking to see a political climate now where Republicans and Democrats who live on the same block literally can't even speak to each other anymore like friends or neighbors, or grumble or hesitate when one of the other side of the political spectrum passes by ones mailbox.

This to me shows that the terrorists are winning, we are doing just what they want us to do. They want us to be divided and hope we ourselves run against one another and break apart the resolve of this united nation.

It is up to us to decide how we can live together, how we can get along and co-exist in society. I am a liberal independent who happens to respect traditional conservative values as well and have some Republican friends. My grandparents are conservatives, and we disagree strongly on abortion, stem cell research and gay marriage, but we love each other very much and my grandma and grandpa are two people I love most of all in the world, for I know that it is not our differences that divide us, but our inability to accept and respect the differences as Audre Loche said, and I respect their differences and they respect mine.

The fact is, we HAVE to get along, we HAVE to accept the differences and live together.

Look at the 9/11 Commission. They're an independent, bi-partisan organization. They have five Republicans and five Democrats on the staff, and though they would certainly disagree and dispute a lot in the course of their campaign, the fact is the organization is still together and they put together a wonderful report.

Why can't we all live together like Thomas Keans and Lee Hamiltons? That's what we have to do here. First things first, we MUST get along.

Secondly, it's exactly what Raphael said. The Israeli-Palestine conflict is central to many problems with the peace process in the world.

We have two candidates who are both professed as "pro-Israel". We're halfway there, and when you're halfway, it's a devastating place to be when you're trying to find a solution or common ground. We need to get a leader who professes onself as "pro-Israel and pro-Palestine" and form a bi-lateral campaign or organization that reaches out and relies on the concerns of both cultures and, in time, through a series of talks and interests, can generate understanding, generate solutions, and see to it Israel is respected as a state while Palestine earns its right to its free state.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton

"You'll find something that's enough to keep you
But if the bright lights don't receive you
You should turn yourself around and come back home" MB20

Huan Yi
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8 posted 10-30-2004 11:54 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

“The psalm-singing of Christian martyrs going to their deaths in the arena alerted the Roman Empire to the fact that a new and revolutionary force was coming into being. When the pleasure-bent populace saw the Christians singing as they fearlessly entered the amphitheater where hungry lions awaited them, they were filled with awe.

Heaven is vibrant with song.”

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/1327/022301sf.html


Popcorn, Peanuts

“Troika”
Lieutenant Kijé  by Sergey Prokofiev


serenity blaze
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9 posted 10-30-2004 11:56 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

B'hai?

check yer e mail Kacy

damn

shaking my head here
Huan Yi
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10 posted 10-30-2004 11:59 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

Noah,

“We need to get a leader who professes onself as "pro-Israel and pro-Palestine" and form a bi-lateral campaign or organization that reaches out and relies on the concerns of both cultures and, in time, through a series of talks and interests, can generate understanding, generate solutions, and see to it Israel is respected as a state while Palestine earns its right to its free state.”

Bravo!

Why is it that no one in authority in the world
has ever thought to trying this in all the years since 1948?!!!
Or even before?!!!


John

[This message has been edited by Huan Yi (10-31-2004 12:20 AM).]

Midnitesun
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11 posted 11-02-2004 02:54 PM       View Profile for Midnitesun   Email Midnitesun   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Midnitesun

John, do you remember Carter?
Huan Yi
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12 posted 11-02-2004 06:28 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

Kacy, and so what happened?
Why didn’t it work?  

John

 
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