How to Join Member's Area Private Library Search Today's Topics p Login
Main Forums Discussion Tech Talk Mature Content Archives
   Nav Win
 Discussion
 The Alley
 the video   [ Page: 1  2  ]
 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
Follow us on Facebook

 Moderated by: Ron   (Admins )

 
User Options
Format for Better Printing EMail to a Friend Not Available
Admin Print Send ECard
Passions in Poetry

the video

 Post A Reply Post New Topic   Go to the Next Oldest/Previous Topic Return to Topic Page Go to the Next Newest Topic 
Midnitesun
Deputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Empyrean
since 05-18-2001
Posts 29020
Gaia


0 posted 10-29-2004 10:03 PM       View Profile for Midnitesun   Email Midnitesun   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Midnitesun


I listened to and read bin Laden's newest video message, and am appalled that the TV news media only mentioned it briefly in terms of its possible impact on the election. I think everyone should read what this man actually said. For your own sense of security, your own desire to survive this war, go watch PBS, and READ the transcript at al Jazeera, the Arab news media...you can read it in English. Don't count on the standard media political spin washing machines for your knowledge.  
Mistletoe Angel
Deputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 10 ToursDeputy Moderator 5 Tours
Member Empyrean
since 12-17-2000
Posts 34089
City of Roses


1 posted 10-29-2004 10:13 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

I've been out all day with activism, from co-leading a No on 26-64 rally to my weekly PPRC rally.

Therefore I am just learning of this breaking news, and want to get the raw, honest detail behind this.

Can you provide your suggested link to me so I can read the content of the speech in its organic form before comparing to the mainstream form?

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton

"You'll find something that's enough to keep you
But if the bright lights don't receive you
You should turn yourself around and come back home" MB20

Midnitesun
Deputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Empyrean
since 05-18-2001
Posts 29020
Gaia


2 posted 10-29-2004 10:19 PM       View Profile for Midnitesun   Email Midnitesun   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Midnitesun

www.aljazeera.net
I read WNN and al jazreera almost every day, as well online news from Israel, Korea, China, India, Africa, Australia and Europe.
It's amazing how distorted the American media can be in its presentations and POV.  BTW, I also read the Washington Post, who actually posted the video info before it came out on the world News Network.
In addition, the current Administration had leaned on aljazeera and asked them to NOT air the video, they rightfully declined the coercive request.  
Thanks for asking, Noah.

www.washingtonpost.com  is the best American source (MHO)
http://www.wnnetwork.com/
serenity blaze
Member Empyrean
since 02-02-2000
Posts 28839


3 posted 10-29-2004 10:20 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

thanks Kacy.

I was just coming back to ask for a link.

y'psychic thang you.
Midnitesun
Deputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Empyrean
since 05-18-2001
Posts 29020
Gaia


4 posted 10-29-2004 10:22 PM       View Profile for Midnitesun   Email Midnitesun   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Midnitesun

LOL, you're welcome, serene queen.
Midnitesun
Deputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Empyrean
since 05-18-2001
Posts 29020
Gaia


5 posted 10-29-2004 10:28 PM       View Profile for Midnitesun   Email Midnitesun   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Midnitesun

When you go to aljazeera, look at the top left, click on the English link, unless you read Arabic. LOL, not many Americans do.
serenity blaze
Member Empyrean
since 02-02-2000
Posts 28839


6 posted 10-29-2004 10:31 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

*chuckle*

after two minutes of trying to transcribe shorthand, that's exactly what I did.

(It does resemble the old Gregg method)



thanks again, Kace!
Midnitesun
Deputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Empyrean
since 05-18-2001
Posts 29020
Gaia


7 posted 10-29-2004 10:33 PM       View Profile for Midnitesun   Email Midnitesun   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Midnitesun

LOL, I know what you mean, I tried to master both Hebrew and Arabic, succeeded in neither. I never even tried Gregg. (but he was really cute!) LOL
serenity blaze
Member Empyrean
since 02-02-2000
Posts 28839


8 posted 10-29-2004 10:38 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Hebrew? (serenity brightens up)

We have to talk, my sister!

although I'm still working on the alphabet--

aleph bayet ghimel daleth...

but do drop me a line!

(sorry for this chatty interruption, folks)

Midnitesun
Deputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Empyrean
since 05-18-2001
Posts 29020
Gaia


9 posted 10-29-2004 10:43 PM       View Profile for Midnitesun   Email Midnitesun   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Midnitesun

hay, vav...
ok, sis, howzbout tomorrow?
I lived in Israel for a year, and though I'm rusty, I'll throw you a few phrases in an email.
'leila tov' is one of my faves... means good night
also, loh nachone! = no way jose! LOL
serenity blaze
Member Empyrean
since 02-02-2000
Posts 28839


10 posted 10-29-2004 10:50 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

YAY!

send 'em on!

gawd I love ya!


gleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Aenimal
Member Rara Avis
since 11-18-2002
Posts 7451
the ass-end of space


11 posted 10-29-2004 11:22 PM       View Profile for Aenimal   Email Aenimal   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Aenimal

I agree with what you're saying but you have to admit it is rather interesting, that suddenly, just in time for the election a tape pops up, not the audio recordings we've become used to but the first visual sighting of Osama in years. shrugs

As for hebrew, i attempted but never managed to learn the language though i am absolutely rivetted by the sytems of gematria and more so notariqon used in the analysis of holy texts
Midnitesun
Deputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Empyrean
since 05-18-2001
Posts 29020
Gaia


12 posted 10-29-2004 11:30 PM       View Profile for Midnitesun   Email Midnitesun   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Midnitesun

huh? LOL, what were those terms? gematria and notariqon? meaning symbols?
serenity blaze
Member Empyrean
since 02-02-2000
Posts 28839


13 posted 10-29-2004 11:30 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

grin

Raph knows WHY I study Hebrew...

smile

Huan Yi
Member Ascendant
since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


14 posted 10-30-2004 12:52 AM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

Is there any question that bin Laden's animosity derived/s
from the “alliance” the United States has with Israel,
( an alliance spanning many years and different administrations)?
So how do we assuage his anger and that of his followers?

John


P.S.

"The following comments reflect the balance of opinion we have received so far:

Perhaps I'm being too cynical but something just doesn't ring true about this tape. The quality is too good compared with previous tapes. The timing is very interesting, I had predicted that something would happen this week. Producing OBL in person would be too obvious ... is this the next best thing ... is it really him? Who has most to gain from this tape? It's all too much of a coincidence and is too slick for my liking

Paul, Milton Keynes

How convenient. This can only help Bush.

Sandra Rutter, USA”

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/talking_point/3966857.stm

That Devil Bush!
Aenimal
Member Rara Avis
since 11-18-2002
Posts 7451
the ass-end of space


15 posted 10-30-2004 01:11 AM       View Profile for Aenimal   Email Aenimal   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Aenimal

grins at K
Aenimal
Member Rara Avis
since 11-18-2002
Posts 7451
the ass-end of space


16 posted 10-30-2004 01:25 AM       View Profile for Aenimal   Email Aenimal   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Aenimal

Kacy? Hard to explain but here's the best decription i can muster. Gematria is linked to numerology, each letter in the hebrew alphabet has a numerical value. By determining the sum of certain words another word or secret is revealed. A famous example is Genesis 18:2 "and lo, three", scholars believe these were three of the archangels and when using gematria the arithmetic equivalent is the sentence "these are Michael, Gabriel and Raphael"

Notariqon is much more complicated, each letter in the Hebrew alphabet is also a word itself. For example A/Aleph = Ox. By choosing a word, one can then expand on its meaning letter by letter, forming other words and sentences. For example the 'In the beginning' of Genesis can be expanded to 'In the beginning Elohim saw that Israel would accept the law' the reverse is true where sentences can be shortened into smaller words.
Midnitesun
Deputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Empyrean
since 05-18-2001
Posts 29020
Gaia


17 posted 10-30-2004 02:25 AM       View Profile for Midnitesun   Email Midnitesun   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Midnitesun

John, everyone seems to have their own interpretation of Osama's intent and what effect the video might have on the election. I can't read his mind, but don't believe his intent had anything to do with trying to manipulate any votes. If you heard or read what he said, he doesn't make any distinctions between Bush and Kerry when it comes to his actions. I believe his message is simple: he is putting us all on notice, that no matter who gets elected, al Quida will continue its agenda as long as we continue to 'antagonize' Muslims. Of course, I don't agree with his overall assessment of US policy, but I cannot control what that man and his followers thinks or does. And now, because of our actions in Iraq, we have created another generation of Osamas who are willing to blow themselves up just to get at us.
I have absolutely no doubt that video is real, and that it was probably made within the past few days or weeks.
What no one seems to want to talk about is what Osama said about Bush's delayed reaction/response that fateful day, how Bush sat there in that classroom and didn't respond immediately, and that time delay allowed Atta and the others sufficient time to do in not only the second tower, but also the Pentagon (and he would have done in the White House were it not for those brave passengers that sent that plane into the ground.)
Just watch the video, read/listen to the two or three available translations, and file it in your Terrorism 101 course book.

oh, and CYA...cover your derriere, everyone is fair game these days
As for assuaging him or his followers? They are too far gone. But for the thousands of others who sympathize with the plight of the Palestinians, Lebanese, Muslims in general? 'twould take a major shift in policies and mindset, a major change in the way we (and other countries)do business in this world, a major change in how we powerful nations go about controlling the rest of the world.

[This message has been edited by Midnitesun (10-30-2004 03:04 AM).]

Midnitesun
Deputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Empyrean
since 05-18-2001
Posts 29020
Gaia


18 posted 10-30-2004 02:42 AM       View Profile for Midnitesun   Email Midnitesun   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Midnitesun

Raphie, that makes it as clear as mud. LOL. I know very little about numerology, but do recall something about number/word correlations...kinda like deciphering a CIA report or a government press release. LOL
Thanks for the info, I'll probably research it in my spare time while I'm waiting for a job. Yep...unemployed since Feb (my choice initially, but have been seeking work for over two months in Oregon's crappy job market) Later....  
Huan Yi
Member Ascendant
since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


19 posted 10-30-2004 05:24 AM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

Midnitesun,


“I believe his message is simple: he is putting us all on notice, that no matter who gets elected, al Quida will continue its agenda as long as we continue to 'antagonize' Muslims.”

By our “alliance” with Israel which existed before Iraq and will, unless our “policies”
change, after.


“What no one seems to want to talk about is what Osama said about Bush's delayed reaction/response that fateful day, how Bush sat there in that classroom and didn't respond immediately, and that time delay allowed Atta and the others sufficient time to do in not only the second tower, but also the Pentagon (and he would have done in the White House were it not for those brave passengers that sent that plane into the ground.)”

The delay was, as I recall, some eight minutes, and there were already hundreds
if not thousands, (or more), who were already reacting, as their training and
experience dictated.  What was Bush supposed to do?  The authorities in New
York did not need the President of the United States to tell people to get
out of the buildings.   Even if Bush had some secret weapon in his own hand
that could strike at the speed of light, he, like everybody else, (including
generals whose everyday job it is), wouldn’t have known with
confidence what and where to shoot.  Did the 9/11 commission miss
something?

“As for assuaging him or his followers? They are too far gone. But for the thousands of others who sympathize with the plight of the Palestinians, Lebanese, Muslims in general? 'twould take a major shift in policies and mindset, a major change in the way we (and other countries)do business in this world, a major change in how we powerful nations go about controlling the rest of the world.”

Which comes, as it always will, back to our continued support for
the state of Israel, (I think countries like France and Germany have already
made the changes).

John


Huan Yi
Member Ascendant
since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


20 posted 10-30-2004 06:28 AM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

“America needs the world's watchful eyes on our election. I am afraid that "Bush" is going to hijack the elections in America. These latest videos are the Bush Administrations attempt to scare voters into voting for him. Please be our eyes and ears!
C. Proctor, Seattle, WA USA”


"I want you to vote for Kerry, so if you want to combat me, vote Bush!". This is the simple message that even a child can spot as pro-republican propaganda. Just the last rabbit extracted from Bush's hat at the right time. Are voters so stupid to swallow similar rubbish?
Maurice, UK”

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/talking_point/3966857.stm


I hope no one has closed the file on the Kennedy assassination;
just who was that on the grassy knoll. . .

Midnitesun
Deputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Empyrean
since 05-18-2001
Posts 29020
Gaia


21 posted 10-30-2004 09:29 AM       View Profile for Midnitesun   Email Midnitesun   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Midnitesun

Well, those people who think it's a political hoax have their opinion, as I said, I don't agree. The timing is the ONLY thing about that message from bin Laden that makes it seem suspicious, not what he actually said. He says it doesn't matter to him, whether it be Kerry or Bush, only the end result of a policy shift will deter further strikes against the US and ANY other country that supports the Israeli hardline position on the Palestinians. And we have to understand, what's happening in Iraq is not just about Israel.
Now of course, we have Arafat's illness throwing another curve ball during the last inning of our political ballgame. Is someone going to suggest an ulterior motive here too? LOL. Probably.  
Not everyone loves Israel. WHOA! does that surprise anyone? not everyone loves the US of A either. There was always plenty enough hatred to go around out there, just waiting for someone like Osama to be the incendiary spark.  It IS NOT just about Israel however, that there are so many Muslims willing to pick up a gun or rock and strike out at Christians, Buddhists, atheists, Jews...even other Muslims. They are not killing just Americans, but virtually anyone they PERCEIVE to be working against their goals, anyone worldwide whom they perceive to be unfair to Muslims. You can't lump it all into one single cause/effect, even though Osama attempts to justify his actions because of the US/Israeli favoritism connection. He specifically spoke of Lebanon and Afghanistan, and the 1982 bombings by Israel that took out 'towers' in Lebanon.
John, I would NEVER suggest the world should abandon Israel. It has a right to be a free sovereign nation, and for many years, the borders stayed 'relatively' quiet with Arab neighbors, especially Jordan and Egypt. Those two countries finally got it figured out Israel was here to stay.  Syria was always a problem, as were many other Arab countries. I lived there for a year, and even with occasional shootings and bombings, most Israelis and tourists went about their day feeling 'somewhat' secure. But it's a constant battle to maintain that security, and some of the Israeli militant right-wing activities have taken some wrong actions in the past 20 years, that have aggravated and escalated the violence. There isn't any black/white solution. The Palestinian issue must be resolved. The Israelis must be allowed to live in peace. If you have some golden solution, by all means, go over there and talk to those in leadership positions. Be proactive in a peace organization, be proactive in a human rights group, be part of some attempt at finding a viable solution. Don't just throw words and challenging questions around that go nowhere, solve nothing. I've heard more than enough rhetoric lately to last ten lifetimes.
Huan Yi
Member Ascendant
since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


22 posted 10-30-2004 11:55 AM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

Midnitesun,


My personal opinion is that, (after over fifty years
of trying),  a peaceful solution that
all will accept, leaving Israel still existing,
is not likely, unless possibly we can come
to some tribute arrangement similar to what there
is with Egypt, (in the form of billions of aid that
otherwise would be spent elsewhere or not at all).
I don’t even think that would work.  Jews get bad press
in the Koran, (Mohammed had hundreds executed);
they’re considered among the worst of the unbelievers.
Some good portion of the Moslem world will
never accept Jews except under some dhimmitude
in the land that is now Israel.  There has to be a
fundamental change of view, ( like that which
occurred in Japan after WWII), in that part of
the Moslem world which could only come
by a war far larger than now, (which no one
in the United States, other than Jews,  would support
for the sake of Israel), or a fraternization with the West
that is an anathema to them.

If we are unwilling to abandon Israel, we should
now expect and accept bleeding with her.

John

P.S.  In only half jest I once heard someone suggest
moving all Jews from Israel to the Baja Peninsula
which, there was confidence, would be shortly
turned from desert to a prosperity by its new
inhabitants.


  
hush
Senior Member
since 05-27-2001
Posts 1693
Ohio, USA


23 posted 10-30-2004 01:01 PM       View Profile for hush   Email hush   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for hush

I guess what really enrages me about this video is that he's trying to reason with us... trying to justify.

I understand the point, but... I remember the horror of that day... and I didn't even know anybody who died, or who was there. How dare he try to advise us in the best way to "avoid" another attack? How dare he? The man responsible for the terror tries to give us some fatherly speech, a "Now, have you learned your lesson" speech... but all under the thinly veiled threat of another lesson.

quote:
Describing Bush's actions at the school on September 11, he said: "It never occurred to us that the commander in chief of the American forces would leave 50,000 citizens in the two towers to face those horrors alone at a time when they most needed him."


Well, um, I'm not sure if anyone actually read the 9/11 commission report... I made it thru chapter one... and it gave me a whole new sense of eprspective on it. There were multiple failures in chain of command mass confusion among the faa, military that wasn't notified- they did something to us that we had never had done before and we didn't know how to handle that. And while I think Bush sitting there doing absolutely nothing, not even getting up to be further briefed, is appalling, I certainly don't believe he had some magic weapon or command that could ahve stopped these attacks. There's just no way.


Midnitesun
Deputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Empyrean
since 05-18-2001
Posts 29020
Gaia


24 posted 10-30-2004 01:15 PM       View Profile for Midnitesun   Email Midnitesun   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Midnitesun

Well, John, we agree there needs to be some fundamental changes, however we don't agree on the methods. An ever growing expanding war will not bring peace. Peace isn't an end result, it's an ongoing process humans will be struggling with from now until there is no Earth.
I've heard lots of those in-bad-taste jokes and remarks, and in more than one case, the brunt of the joke could just as easliy be changed to some other ethnic or religious or political name as the one to be sent away. All such remarks, to me, are forms of hatred and bigotry, and do absolutely nothing to stop hatred. While its true comedy can and often does help people break through barriers and it does alleviate pain, it's  always at someone else's expense. In this particular case though, the intent is to prove the 'offending people needing removal' are perhaps the 'chosen ones' for a good reason after all.

You seem to delight in bringing such junk to these forums, and I wonder what your intent is with such posts. Are you suggesting we abandon Israel just becasue Osama would like us to do that? What exactly are your convictions on this? Are you just throwing these things out to incite, to ruffle some feathers? Or do you have a game plan, some hidden agenda? I prefer more straightforward dialogues, as that's the only way we can ever get past all this innuendo and accusatory crap that saturates the media. I'm going to say it one more time, I am voting for Kerry, it doesn't matter whether or not Osami approves, and I don't expect him (Kerry) to work miracles. Just to appraoch the world and the US's needs from a slightly different vantage point than Bush.
I'd like all despots and terrorists to disintegrate, spontaneously combust. Ya, it's a fantasy. Meanwhile, I'll continue to work for peaceful solutions, to work for raising the standard of living EQUALLY for ALL citizens of this planet.
I don't just consider myself an American, rather, a global citizen of Earth.
Now that I'm done ranting a bit, LOL, let's just say, we have a great forum here, courtesy of Mr. Ron Carnell, in which to disagree in a safe and sane manner.
 
 Post A Reply Post New Topic   Go to the Next Oldest/Previous Topic Return to Topic Page Go to the Next Newest Topic 
All times are ET (US) Top
  User Options
>> Discussion >> The Alley >> the video   [ Page: 1  2  ] Format for Better Printing EMail to a Friend Not Available
Print Send ECard

 

pipTalk Home Page | Main Poetry Forums

How to Join | Member's Area / Help | Private Library | Search | Contact Us | Today's Topics | Login
Discussion | Tech Talk | Archives | Sanctuary



© Passions in Poetry and netpoets.com 1998-2013
All Poetry and Prose is copyrighted by the individual authors