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Passions in Poetry

Congatulations Michael Moore

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Goldenrose
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0 posted 07-28-2004 06:52 AM       View Profile for Goldenrose   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Goldenrose

May i just say congratulations to Michael Moore for exceeding the $100 million dollar mark in just one month. This is a record for a documentary film, the previous biggest being his Bowling for Columbine.
It would seem that  over 50% of american people have seen this film, and yet more still will see it before the election when it is brought out on video/dvd.

So for all of you people who havent seen this film, do yourself a favour and go and see NOT how to run a country, it is the ordinary British and American soldiers and families who are fighting this war so that the rich get richer.
How many congressmen have familly members in Iraq from over 150 +?..just one, it is the poor families, the blacks and other ethnic americans who are fighting for the country that they love, who have time after time been failed  when they most needed help,the current man in charge should stick to playing golf (Badly) and keep reading MY PET GOAT.

This is just my view of the film and its run away succes....be happy everybody and keeping caring for the men and women on the front line...

Goldenrose.

Look for love and happiness...

LeeJ
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1 posted 07-28-2004 09:48 AM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

yes, I to saw the movie, but plan to rent it when it comes out...it was so full of information that it overwhelmed me.  I want to see it again and really listen and research his intentions again.  

Thank you for sharing.
Balladeer
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2 posted 07-28-2004 12:13 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

I'm certainly not going to dispute your right to like or even promote the film...we are all entitled to our preferences. Nor will I get into a contest of arguing it's validity. I will, however, take offence at your applauding the film and wishing the best for our troops in the same thread.

Michael Moore has three motives for releasing this film (1) money (2) getting Bush defeated and (3) money. So be it. He's a filmmaker and that his avenue to do both. To do it with our men in battle zones, however, is inexcusable. Can you honestly believe that it does not create more hazardous conditions for our troops? Does Michael Moore care? Of course not. He received offers from Hazbollah to distribute it in Syria and Lebanon.

"The company distributing filmmaker Michael Moore's Bush-bashing movie "Fahrenheit 9/11" says it won't reject an offer of help from Middle East terrorist organization Hezbollah.

The movie industry publication Screen Daily reported, "In terms of marketing the film, [distributor] Front Row is getting a boost from organizations related to Hezbollah which have rung up from Lebanon to ask if there's anything they can do to support the film."

The story then quotes Front Row Managing Director Gianluca Chacra: "We can't go against these organizations as they could strongly boycott the film in Lebanon and Syria."

The film is perfect for terrorists to use for propoganda purposes. Do you think Michael Moore is concerned with that?

There are those of you who will pooh-pooh the idea that this film places our soldiers in more difficult positions. I'll wager to say that the majority, if not all, who do have never been there and you really have no idea. I can't speak for the boys in Iraq but I can certainly speak for the ones in Viet Nam and our wonderful love and devotion for Hanoi Jane Fonda and others. DO you even have any idea what things like that do to the minds of soldiers who are just busy trying to stay alive, watching nationally-known figures berate their commanders and what they are doing, to have the enemy they are fighting use their own country against them? Do you not believe the soldiers over there are not wondering if they will receive the same non-welcome and eyes-turning-away reception the soldiers got when returning from Nam? I can assure you they are. Do you think Michael Moore cares? Of course not. There was money to be made and political agendas to be met. There was a time in our country's history that the in-fighting and protesting stopped when the first US soldier entered the field of battle. We put on a united front, regardless. Too bad we lost that...

I pass no judgement on the movie, only its time of release.  Congratulate it if you like but don't praise the film and wish the best for our soldiers in the same breath. You can't have both...

If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read it in English, thank a soldier.

Aenimal
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3 posted 07-28-2004 02:58 PM       View Profile for Aenimal   Email Aenimal   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Aenimal

Deer you also have to take into account that some of the footage & information was from soldiers/war correspondents inside Iraq. I understand what youre saying, but at the same time what's the option? Sweep it all under the rug until after the war, after the election?
hush
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4 posted 07-28-2004 03:08 PM       View Profile for hush   Email hush   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for hush

Goldenrose-

'How many congressmen have familly members in Iraq from over 150 +?..just one'

If what I've heard is correct, that's a manipulation of the facts. Yes, only one has a family member in Iraq, but more than that have family in the service. How do we, as viewers, know how many were in Iraq, or are going to go to Iraq? I don't trust Moore to give us that info, the film is far too biased.

Now, in defense of the movie...

Deer said:

'Can you honestly believe that it does not create more hazardous conditions for our troops? Does Michael Moore care? Of course not. He received offers from Hazbollah to distribute it in Syria and Lebanon.'

This is an interesting point. I think this movie will be exploited for its criticisms in an already anti-US part of the world, and I think it's quite possible to believe that someone will go "See! I knew they were killing civilians! Those infidels!"

But isn't it equally possible that Bush calling them "evildoers" will elicit a similarly vicious response?

There's a quote by Ben Franklin that my boyfriend loves, and I'm probably gonna screw it up, but goes something like: 'Those who would sacrifice freedom for safety deserve neither freedom nor safety.'

Using "You're unamerican! You're putting troops in danger!" is a very manipulative way to squelch criticism.
Ron
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5 posted 07-28-2004 03:10 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
Congratulate it if you like but don't praise the film and wish the best for our soldiers in the same breath. You can't have both...

But you can?

Your concern and support for troops, past and present, seems at bitter odds with your willingness to deny others the very things that soldiers throughout American history have fought to preserve. You can try to tell everyone what they can and can't say, but you shouldn't mask your distaste for individual freedoms behind a pretense of support for our troops. You can't have both.

Or, uh, can you?

Seems to me it's entirely possible to be critical of something without necessarily withdrawing one's support of it. You, Mike, obviously don't believe the freedom to express opinions should apply to everyone equally. But I probably shouldn't take that to mean you are anti-American or would like to string Jefferson's effigy from the nearest telephone pole. One shouldn't necessarily follow the other. Humans are complex creatures, and our ability to love someone, to support someone, while not necessarily agreeing with everything they do, is a large part of that complexity. We can have it both ways, simply because that's the dichotomy defined as human nature.


Ringo
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6 posted 07-28-2004 05:08 PM       View Profile for Ringo   Email Ringo   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Ringo

I have not seen the movie as of yet, and do not wish to spoend the 7 bucks that it costs to do so. I will more than likely see it on video just so I might more accurately discuss it, and have the facts from both sides and not just spit out a load of knee jerk reactionary statements... after all, my name isn't Michael Moore.
(my apologies... I shouldn't have probably said that...)
I do have a very close friend (with whom I agree about nothing political) that has seen it, and we bought the 9/11 commision report when it came out, and he says that the commission report belies at least half of the movie. Hmmmm...... So much for the "facts". And before I get a stream of Blather about the "partasinism" of the panel... look atthe members, and their political afilliliation... I don't see a vast majority of Republicans, and I don't see them giving either side a free out... BOTH the current and the previous administrations are held to blame.

Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again...
http://www.cmlb.net/ringo

Brad
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7 posted 07-28-2004 09:30 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

If criticizing the current administration is perfect for terrorists, why not get rid of the problem?

Vote for Kerry.

LoveBug
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8 posted 07-28-2004 10:40 PM       View Profile for LoveBug   Email LoveBug   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LoveBug

Only ethnic minorities fight for America? Come on... West Virginia has the most solders and vets per capita than any other state, and the majority of those are white. I'm not taking away from minority groups that fight, but don't take away from the white americans who volunteer.

And about 'sending' people to Iraq... none of the solders were drafted, they CHOSE to join the military as concenting adults.

Oh, make me Thine forever
And should I fainting be
Lord, let me never ever
Outlive my love for Thee

Brad
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9 posted 07-28-2004 10:47 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Huh?
Aenimal
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10 posted 07-28-2004 11:09 PM       View Profile for Aenimal   Email Aenimal   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Aenimal

quote:
And about 'sending' people to Iraq... none of the solders were drafted, they CHOSE to join the military as concenting adults


They chose to join the military, doesn't mean they chose to serve misguided ideals.


"If criticizing the current administration is perfect for terrorists, why not get rid of the problem?

Vote for Kerry."

'xactly
Balladeer
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11 posted 07-28-2004 11:27 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

A pretense of support for our troops, Ron? Thank you for the insult. It's very much appreciated.

RIngo, don't waste your fingers. People are not interested in whether or not truth is represented. That's a minor issue

I fought against even responding in this thread because it is a subject very close to me, not about politics and not about personalities. To even debate whether a prejudicial piece of swill presented by someone with an overpowering hatred of Bush is appropriate or not while we have men fighting is distasteful. Quote Franklin, speak of lofty ideals or come up with cute sayings. it doesn't matter and it's easy to do sitting in a comfy chair at your computer pretending to be academic and all-knowing. Take a man like Michael Moore who declared  "I've always considered capitalism the most depraved form of society", the man who told the Canadians they were  crazy to do anything like Americans because they would be sinking too low....take him and make him your hero, if you like. You can join in applause with every terrorist group in the Middle East, who also consider him a terrific fellow.

Forget the soldiers. You did it once - do it again.
Brad
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12 posted 07-28-2004 11:48 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

But it is about politics. Political decisions get people killed and to ignore that, to concentrate on some 'higher' point, is to ignore your duty as an American citizen, military or civilian.

Your armchair quaterback analogy missed the point. According to the constitution, we are the quarterback.

hush
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13 posted 07-29-2004 12:03 AM       View Profile for hush   Email hush   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for hush

Deer, I never said I knew it all, and so far, only one person in this thread has exalted Moore.

I'm sorry it upsets you that people don't agree with the war, or why we're there, and say so... but to say this hurts our troops? I'm not in the military, but I know people who are or have been, and I think it is of the utmost importance to let it be known when I think my friends and family are being put into danger over a cause I don't think is worthy of their lives. If you really care about your fellow citizens, and about life in general, you don't just sit on your ass and twiddle your thumbs when people are dying and you don't see a good reason why. And if public disapproval causes our president (Whoever he [or she] may be) to start a process of getting an internationalized effort, and trying to find a way to pull our troops out while still maintaining safety there, if public protest and pressure saves even one American or Iraqi life, then it's worth it and you can call me young, idealistic and naive... but don't you dare call me unamerican for that.
Balladeer
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14 posted 07-29-2004 12:13 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Well, hush, I must say your response confuses the hell out of me.

"I'm sorry it upsets you that people don't agree with the war, or why we're there, "

WHere in the world did I say that in this thread? My comments have been about the timing of the movie...

"but don't you dare call me unamerican for that."

Once again, where in the world did I call you un-american?

I'm afraid I don't understand your response at all...
Goldenrose
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15 posted 07-29-2004 05:35 AM       View Profile for Goldenrose   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Goldenrose

And here i was just cpngratulating Micheal Moore for the success of his film....you know..all of the long cues of people who stood outside and waited to get into the biggest selling documentary film of all time...i would rather like to think that all of these people were sufficiently concerned to actually watch the film and find out for themselves just exactly why the american and british soldiers where fighting?..why exactly the american soldiers that were guarding the oil wells were getting LESS money than the american people from Texas who were getting the oil out of the ground..mmmm..surely that cannot be right can it!...i dont criticise the soldiers i think it is a real big shame that the soldiers should be used as security and watch dogs while the oil is coming out of the ground...lets not be under any false illusions here that is why ther is a war in Iraq..full stop...

Soldiers join the military in most cases because there is no other job for them....but they dont ASK to be sent there...and if they have to go to war surely they deserve cast iron reasons...not the very flakey reasons for going to this war..surely they derve to have a more compassionate leader....and they need to know that they are not being sent there on a fools errand...
Please do not forget that my prime minister is WORSE than Bush...if Bush is wrong..why would a lawyer like Blair actually be following him?...Recently he had to be persuaded to stay as prime minister..because of the war he supported...he knows deep down in his heart that he should never have gone to war..but he went ..and followed a president...that the world has come to hate because of his aggressive stance...he threw up the chance to have the worlds compassion after 911...he could have chosen to have said ''ok..lets stop all of this nonesense right now''...but he chose war,,now he is not a war president..he is a peace president....while the soldiers he sent to war are still fighting.

A famous British music star recently said in an interview that america has becaome scared..scare to talk...scared to discuss..scared to critcise..and likened the current situation..to Mcarthyism...if so that is such a sad situation..beacuse your not stepping forward..your stepping back..the people have the right to know how there country is being run...and shame on anyone who surpresses that...that is not freedom.....

Again i say congratulations to Michael Moore ...oh and to Lida Rondstadt ....

I am pleased that my thread generated genuine discussion..even if some of it was a litle ''out there''....but i amsure that the american people will bring about a change that will benefit both them and the world in the not too distant future....

Peace to the world...have a great day/week everybody....

Goldenrose.


Look for love and happiness...
Toerag
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16 posted 07-29-2004 07:11 AM       View Profile for Toerag   Email Toerag   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Toerag

I can't go see this quote: "wonderful" film....I have to save my money, if Kerry and Country Boy Eddie get elected I'm gonna need all the money I can get my hands on to pay taxes.
Kaoru
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17 posted 07-29-2004 07:48 AM       View Profile for Kaoru   Email Kaoru   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Kaoru

Oh OH!

Well, I really want to stay out of this one, but I really want to put in my two cents as well..

I just don't know what to do!

I'll come back later.....
Brad
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18 posted 07-29-2004 08:35 AM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Wow, Toerag is in the top 2 percent of American income earners!

You're buyin' the beer.



Toerag
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19 posted 07-29-2004 09:50 AM       View Profile for Toerag   Email Toerag   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Toerag

Yea Brad, another day another dollar...(I gotta raise)....I'm considering moving to Mexico...they need a clean up guy at the Heinz plant down there....pay is awful, no bennies...but the cost of living is almost nothing....and yea, I'll buy the beer.....what's your preference Brad?..Billy Beer?...I was going to get some Kerry Ale, but  I understand it's very expensive, it's made in Mexico, and it tastes different with every sip and there's no telling what the affects may be after you drink it?....My buddy said they have some Edwards Lite....very pretty can, but the cans are only half full?..
Kaoru
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where the wild flowers grow


20 posted 07-29-2004 11:11 AM       View Profile for Kaoru   Email Kaoru   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Kaoru

Well, Toe-y, your sense of humor is refreshing.. not unlike a cold beer.
hush
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21 posted 07-29-2004 11:32 AM       View Profile for hush   Email hush   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for hush

Deer, no, you never called me unamerican, (not in those words at least) but its also not to much of a leap from:

"Congratulate it if you like but don't praise the film and wish the best for our soldiers in the same breath. You can't have both..."

To infer that anyone who sees and value in Moore's film obviously must not have any concern for the troops overseas.

Look, I don't think it's a stellar piece of cinematic truth, but at the very least, he brings up points we should question... like why are we bombing Iraq when most of the hijackers were Saudi's... maybe there is a good reason (I don't really know of one, but I'm no expert)... maybe it's not just the billions of dollars they have sunk in our economy that keeps us from tackling their violations of human rights... but to say:

"take him and make him your hero, if you like. You can join in applause with every terrorist group in the Middle East, who also consider him a terrific fellow."

I'm sorry, your reply seemed levelled at everyone in this thread who didn't agree with you, and you referenced one of my replies... and the above comment is tantamount to calling someone unAmerican. I think it was a reasonable conclusion that I made, but apparently not.

Let's all pretend to agree with each other and love our president, because there's lives on the line... lives he put on the line, and lives we should support his putting on the line... let's never disagree again, every time the president wants to endanger American troops let's suport it because really, that's the best way to protect their lives... to support the very war that endangers them in the first place.

That makes sense, right?
Susan Caldwell
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22 posted 07-29-2004 11:48 AM       View Profile for Susan Caldwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Susan Caldwell

hmmmmmm...

Somewhere..Goldenrose is sitting back smiling.

Toerag
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Posts 5839
Ala bam a


23 posted 07-29-2004 01:35 PM       View Profile for Toerag   Email Toerag   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Toerag

Aw...my post must have hurt someone's feelings?...Poor Mike Moore and his following?....I still hope for him a ship full of gold and it still not be enough...
Aenimal
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24 posted 07-29-2004 01:53 PM       View Profile for Aenimal   Email Aenimal   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Aenimal

Toe, Moore just figures 'If Bush can profit from this war why not me?'
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