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Congatulations Michael Moore

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Toerag
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25 posted 07-29-2004 02:31 PM       View Profile for Toerag   Email Toerag   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Toerag

Yea Aenimal...Bush has really made some bucks on this war.....I'm not sure I understand your reasoniing.....guess it's all that oil right?...I wish someone would just post a thread titled:

"What Would YOU have done as President if you would have been dealt the hand our current President's been dealt.".....
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26 posted 07-29-2004 02:48 PM       View Profile for Kaoru   Email Kaoru   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Kaoru

*sigh*

Okay, here's the deal, kiddos. Mr. Moore is not the president, he is a documentary film maker. It's not his job to tell us the full truth and nothing but the truth, nor is it his job to make everyone happy. Part of making a documentary is expression of freedom, which is a right we all have in this wonderful country.

I saw the film, and yes, I did approve of it...even if I didn't, though, I really wouldn't consider getting angry or upset over it. Anything like that would simply be irrational.

I agree, Moore does cast some issues with a strong opinion, but that's a GOOD thing. Questioning the power at hand is important and something all Americans should do. I don't just mean Bush, either. Questioning any president's motives and judgements is not only a right, but a priveledge that we're lucky to have and should use.

No one ever totally agrees with a leader's judgements. If they do, they don't have any opinions of their own. Consistantly agreeing with someone shows a drone-like quality that no individual should have.

If you look on Moore's site, he's given you several pages of factual backing for his documentary. I would suggest reading that before you decide that it's all lies, because it really isn't.

I understand that currently, we're all very emotionally attached to our political views, but you also have to take in to consideration that including such emotion into a discussion will seriously cause a drawback on what people see in your opinion.

Moore is not a stupid man, by far. I enjoy his humor and think that he has every right to make as many movies as he'd like to.

I am all for questioning, it's not only important, but necessary.

I'm finished.
Aenimal
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27 posted 07-29-2004 02:55 PM       View Profile for Aenimal   Email Aenimal   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Aenimal

quote:
Yea Aenimal...Bush has really made some bucks on this war.....I'm not sure I understand your reasoniing.....guess it's all that oil right?


Didn't mention Oil, but if you want a list of Bush family companies and holdings that have profited from this war I can oblige. I'm not saying it's the sole reason for the war, simply stating that he's managed to make a nice sum of money along the way.
Juju
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28 posted 07-29-2004 03:06 PM       View Profile for Juju   Email Juju   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Juju's Home Page   View IP for Juju

Moore is slimy greasy man. His reasoning is very faltered and He used a tragety to make a political opinion about the adminastration.  What's worse is the information in the film is filled with circulling reasoning, Crude insults and steriotyping, words out of context, information out of context, Minipulated information, right out lied, and is making money out of it.    
Aenimal
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29 posted 07-29-2004 03:31 PM       View Profile for Aenimal   Email Aenimal   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Aenimal

quote:
Moore is slimy greasy man. His reasoning is very faltered and He used a tragety to make a political opinion about the adminastration.  What's worse is the information in the film is filled with circulling reasoning, Crude insults and steriotyping, words out of context, information out of context, Minipulated information, right out lied, and is making money out of it.


Bush's reasoning is questionable and he used the anger caused by the tragedy to push a war diverting resources from their rightful target of Al Qaeda. What's worse is his administration has manipulated information, outright lied to their citizens and he is making money off of it.
Toerag
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30 posted 07-29-2004 03:40 PM       View Profile for Toerag   Email Toerag   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Toerag

And that's why he went to war?...Do ya think the ketchup that the service guys are getting over there, in chow halls all over the world, the Iraq people now, (yes they're getting food and things they've never been able to have before) would be attributed to Kerry if he'd been the one?....Give me a break Aenimal...
Juju
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31 posted 07-29-2004 03:40 PM       View Profile for Juju   Email Juju   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Juju's Home Page   View IP for Juju

A lie is when you make some one beleive something that isn't true, when you know what the truth is. Its decieving. Bush honestly beleived at the time that saddam wmd, so he was not lying. Even Kerry beleived that saddam had wmd's ( Even though now he denies it) I still believe that saddam had weopons of mass distruction, but he shipped them out to lybia or Jordan, and I still believe that he has some barried some where. I swear some poeple really fall for this psychological warfair stuff. I know whats really happening.

Juju
Aenimal
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32 posted 07-29-2004 03:41 PM       View Profile for Aenimal   Email Aenimal   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Aenimal

quote:
And that's why he went to war?...


what I said was:

quote:
I'm not saying it's the sole reason for the war, simply stating that he's managed to make a nice sum of money along the way.


I'm talking about direct links to military contracting that have gained Bush & his backers profit along the way.
Aenimal
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33 posted 07-29-2004 03:48 PM       View Profile for Aenimal   Email Aenimal   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Aenimal

Knowingly using information on nuclear programs that was discredited by your own investigators and Oak Ridges(aluminum tubes)months before a UN presentation on the matter would constitute a lie. The African connection, the 'conservative' estimate of stokpiles and the allusions to an impending danger would round out everything else i mentioned.
Toerag
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34 posted 07-29-2004 03:50 PM       View Profile for Toerag   Email Toerag   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Toerag

Yea, I guess old honest Abe Kerry will insist on Hunts Ketchup being served to our military if he becomes president......No doubt in my mind..
Aenimal
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35 posted 07-29-2004 03:52 PM       View Profile for Aenimal   Email Aenimal   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Aenimal

There's a slight difference between selecting the brand of Ketchup and selecting military contractors that happen to have links to Bush and Republican interests.
Toerag
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36 posted 07-29-2004 04:26 PM       View Profile for Toerag   Email Toerag   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Toerag

Yea, slight....but go to www.mc.org
seems funny that Kerry, who had the exact same intelligence that Bush received was 100% for the actions Bush has taken...until it was time to run for President....can this be explained?...Or was this just another Kerry flip/flop?
Aenimal
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37 posted 07-29-2004 04:48 PM       View Profile for Aenimal   Email Aenimal   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Aenimal

No not the exact information. Kerry and the rest of us had no idea that Powell's investigative team, and Oak Ridges debunked the information until after the war had started. Furthermore, we had no idea that the CIA had warned against using what they considered faulty evidence regarding the African connection. All if which was used in their presentation and that we NOW no was misleading. Kerry, along with much of the senate and the citizen's of America placed their faith in the administration and the intelligence it offered.
Aenimal
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38 posted 07-29-2004 05:10 PM       View Profile for Aenimal   Email Aenimal   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Aenimal

And btw, a slight difference?

You're honestly comparing the potential sale of condiments to multi-billion dollar military contracting to companies with Republican ties?

As for the flip-flop comments, take a look at Local Rebel's fantastic list of Bush flip-flops in the Kerry thread.
Toerag
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39 posted 07-29-2004 05:49 PM       View Profile for Toerag   Email Toerag   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Toerag

NO Aenimal...I was being facecious...it's just about as absurd as what you're implying.....
Juju
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40 posted 07-29-2004 06:34 PM       View Profile for Juju   Email Juju   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Juju's Home Page   View IP for Juju

Bush flip Flops?

Bush changes his mind - over long periods of time, we all do. What we refere to is Kerry right out With in days saying exact opposite things just to please. I read them and I thought they were a strech. As I said before it is normal for canadates to change there plat form, but know this why we knock kerry is he does it so much, that you don't know what he stands for. In fact in one speach he did that I watched on fox Kerry said that we should drill for oil in the gulf of Mexico, And now I am sure he denies he said that, like he denies he calle bush a lier.

I only have one thing to say!
where is there more wild life in alaska or in the gulf of mexico. Kerry may like the whales, but he doesn't like other sea going animals if I do say.....

Juju


Juju
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41 posted 07-29-2004 07:07 PM       View Profile for SEA   Email SEA   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for SEA

Ringo,
" look atthe members, and their political afilliliation... I don't see a vast majority of Republicans, "

I am a Republican.  
conservative, at that.
Aenimal
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42 posted 07-29-2004 10:03 PM       View Profile for Aenimal   Email Aenimal   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Aenimal

quote:
NO Aenimal...I was being facecious...it's just about as absurd as what you're implying.....


Absurd to someone who won't look at the evidence. I didn't say it was the reason for the war, I said he was profiting from it. I'd supply the information again but what's the point? You've made up your minds, the difference between us is that I can see Kerry's and Moore's faults. But somehow, everything the Administration has done can be justified.


quote:
Bush changes his mind - over long periods of time, we all do. What we refere to is Kerry right out With in days saying exact opposite things just to please.


Well I knew somebody would justify the flip flop issues but that, is weak. Days? Now you're really stretching. Look at the list Balladeer provided on page 5 of the Kerry thread. Notice the dates? Not days. Now READ Local Rebel's thread on Bush changes and look up other politician's records and I guarantee you that you'll find it's not uncommon.  

Goldenrose
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43 posted 07-30-2004 05:30 AM       View Profile for Goldenrose   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Goldenrose

I think that Bush was looking for a reason to get into Iraq, and once 911 happened it was perfect for Bush, he didnt realy care if Al quaeda was in iraq or not after all iraq  has the second biggest oil reserve in the world...that was the only reason he wanted the link between Iraq and Al quaeda..and all of his people couldnt find a link and no link exhists...also Ashcroft should have been force to resign ...he repeatedly told his people'' i dont want to hear anymore about  Al Quaeda''...months before the september 11th attacks.....

I would also like to ask the very seriuos question of ''homeland security''..is this the same security that farreneit 911 asserts that the Oregon coast of over 150 miles has only one police officer to guard it..i would say this was a frightening set of facts...and as the police officers themselves have said this is the case...there is no security...and maybe this is because most of the soldiers who should be doing the job are guarding the vast oil wealth out in iraq...maybe if america stayed behind it's own borders then these hard lessons that it is learning now would not be being visited upon them now....what makes me sad is that the poeple of america are fine people..but they have a very poor choice of who should run their country..maybe they should do away with the two tier system..and open up the voting to other groups..because to be honest there is not much between deomocrat and republican...except a few differntly worded documents....i would think that it would be far better for the american people to have a green party president...better for the people's health....better for the environment...no sending the soldiers or the loved ones of the people to their deaths...
but hey that's far too much to ask for...enjoy the day /week....

Goldenrose.

Look for love and happiness...

Toerag
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44 posted 07-30-2004 07:50 AM       View Profile for Toerag   Email Toerag   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Toerag

Aenimal...there's not a single person walking around this earth, or that has walked this earth, that hasn't screwed up.....except possibly Christ and if my memory serves me, you don't believe in him either?...LOL....(then again, I was a wild hippie/radical in the 60's early 70's and don't have a whole hell of alot of memory left-I blame mine on Vietnam, drugs, and Duane Allman), of course Bush has made some mistakes...but nobody....NOBODY will convince me that Kerry or Edwards or you or me or most anyone else could have, would have handled what Bush has tried to do any better...or nearly as well....I think the poor guy has had his hands full, despite popularity, as much so or more than any president in the last 50 years....
Sunshine
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45 posted 07-30-2004 08:57 AM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine

quote:
I think the poor guy has had his hands full, despite popularity, as much so or more than any president in the last 50 years....
...thank you, Toe...

...and...he inherited the problems...

*poof*
Aenimal
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46 posted 07-30-2004 02:45 PM       View Profile for Aenimal   Email Aenimal   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Aenimal

You're theory works on the assumption that Iraq was a serious and immenent threat, which it wasn't. He created that problem. Bush could have remained on target, Al Queda and if he hadn't pulled out much of their resources from Afghanistan,  the country could have been stabilized much soonerand even possibly found Bin Laden. He then could have focused on new targets using better intel, international diplomacy and planning. I'm not denying he had his hands full  after 9/11, initially he did the right things,  until he attacked Iraq. I know nobody can convince you otherwise, that's the problem. Look at it rationally, look at all the facts and realize that the manner in which the Bush administration waged this war was all wrong. It's not a matter of me attacking a Republican president. It's about getting this particular wingnut and his crew out of office before they do any more damage. Give me a better republican administration in his place and I'll laud them, but not this one.


quote:
Aenimal...there's not a single person walking around this earth, or that has walked this earth, that hasn't screwed up.....except possibly Christ and if my memory serves me, you don't believe in him either?...LOL....


What does this comment accomplish exactly? Because I don't believe in a model of Christ that Christianity has edited/recreated I'm not a good judge of character? There are billions of people on earth who don't believe in him but I guess they're all horrible judges too.  I was a devout Catholic, but researched religion to its core and found incredible discrepancies and alterations that changed my view. But I guess that makes me a flip flop artist too, simply because I have the courage to challenge my beliefs? Is it better to blindly swallow every ideal or piece of propaganda that's fed to me?
Toerag
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47 posted 07-30-2004 05:26 PM       View Profile for Toerag   Email Toerag   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Toerag

I don't know aenimal?....And I wasn't condemning you....but your swallowing alot of what an unproven Kerry is saying aren't you?....and, if you really study his history and "flip flops"...and what qualifications he really has....(nobody other than Bush at this stage of the game does have), you will realize too?....I wish I had another choice too...Demo. or Repub., but I don't...and right now, there is no comparison between the two...Bush at least really knows what's going on at this time....As being a good judge of character?...I have my doubts..you once said you liked me?...LOL
Go take a look at this... www.drudgereport.com/dnc82.htm
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