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Why Not Kerry??

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Balladeer
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125 posted 07-25-2004 09:36 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

No, Rebel, the purpose of this thread was never to pose a distinction between Kerry and Bush nor was it described as such. It's purpose was to have participants describe why they think Kerry is the man they would like to have for president.....period. That has absolutely nothing to do with Bush, unless, of course, the reason for wanting Kerry as president is to not have Bush for president.
Ron
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126 posted 07-25-2004 10:09 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
Which programs do you not want funded Ron?


Tax-cuts, in time of deficit spending, are typically (though not necessarily) short-term thinking. Political goals should benefit the country, not just garner votes.

I am not and have never been an advocate of socialized health care. Cheap medicine is, well, cheap. And in every nation with socialized medicine, even the cheap, non-quality health care available is only available after a months-long wait.

I have no problem with a stronger military, as THAT is the primary role of government. I might question the necessity, but that's an entirely different issue.

I would also like to see a much stronger educational system, but have seen very little evidence to suggest throwing money at it will help. On the contrary, my personal experience in recent years indicates that our current system of grants attracts *exactly* the kind of people we don't want teaching our kids. (Education probably deserves its own thread.)

quote:
It's (this thread's) purpose was to have participants describe why they think Kerry is the man they would like to have for president.....period.

Mike, if this post of yours earlier in this thread is indicative of your stated purpose, I have to admit you've managed to confuse the heck out of me.
Local Rebel
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Southern Abstentia


127 posted 07-26-2004 12:39 AM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

Ron, just to be consistent I'm going to quote myself from this thread http://piptalk.com/pip/Forum6/HTML/000672.html

quote:

Politicians in this country (if not all) have always used the purse strings of the treasury to manipulate voters and there is a long-standing theory in the U.S of A. that people vote their pocket-books. That the current administration and legislature has opted to go back to busting the bank (specifically the Social Security Trust and Medicare) to give people a 'bribe' is no huge surprise -- what would have been a surprise is if George W. got up one morning and decided to get on television and say to the American people -- "you know what? I promised you tax relief in my campaign but the numbers aren't there anymore to make it happen -- I hope you'll forgive me for doing the right thing but I can't give you back a couple hundred dollars without robbing social security or getting us back into deficit spending this year" but alas -- poor George saw what happened to his dad's 'read my lips' promise when he opted to do the 'right' thing and it cost him his presidency.

But bribes like this one will always be used to garner popular support for ones' candidacy -- which translates into a tacit mandate for the politian's (translate special interests) legislative objectives.




and

quote:

We could substitute the current calamity with a bunch of liberal politicians and be having this discussion surrounding a host of other examples -- the basic difference between liberals and conservatives being (in practice but not in definition) that liberals seek to have totalitarian control over what we do WITH our property and conservatives seek totalitarian control over what we do ON our property.

It is the challenge of every generation to answer the question 'how much government is good?'




If we look at American politics over the last 50 years what is fascinating is how our system has become more European in how the ideologies have become lodged in the parties.  The Republican and Democratic parties used to have wings.. now they are just pseudonyms for the liberal party or the conservative party.  But what is even more interesting is that in practice you had George W. campaigning in 2000 on Social Security and Medicare -- the two major pushes of liberalism in the New Deal and the Great Society.  And you have him spending like a drunken sailor.  Clinton, on the other hand, is the only President to ever repeal an entitlement program with welfare reform.  And he balanced the budget.   (And if anyone wants to claim credit for that from Newt's Republican revolution -- who's in charge of Congress now?)

Cutting taxes in time of deficit spending?  Hmmm... sounds like Reaganomics to me.  The middle class tax cut is a clear pander.  But I'd agree to the economic engineering with the tax cuts for on shore jobs and small business investment....  

Spending more on education can't do more harm than spending too little.  One can always go back and argue that spending it right is the best -- but putting 'No Child Left Behind' into play and not funding it can hardly be good.

I've put up both those issues because tax cuts are always a conservative favorite... the question is what is the right amount of tax?  Certainly it isn't zero.  And taxing the lower incomes makes little sense.  

Education spending was the favored issue of one single-issue voter.

There are parts of Kerry's platform that I support strongly -- but if I vote for him -- it will be because he poses the ultimate check and balance to the Republican lock on the house and Senate.  I don't believe in a unified government.  We don't have a parliamentary system and frankly -- I'm glad we don't.  Gridlock is good.  Very, very, good.


Balladeer
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128 posted 07-26-2004 02:24 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Ron, I
m confused at your confusion. The response of mine you quoted has nothing to do with Bush at all, nor is he mentioned in it. It's a Kerry thread...
Ron
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129 posted 07-26-2004 10:53 AM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
It's (this thread's) purpose was to have participants describe why they think Kerry is the man they would like to have for president .....period.

Emphasis added.
Balladeer
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130 posted 07-26-2004 01:26 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

I DIDN'T SAY THAT! SHOVE IT!! LOL! Sorry, Ron. That was my imitation of Mrs. Kerry

Yes, I wanted it to be about the why's or why nots of Kerry as president based on his own qualifications. That would, of course, come with explanations, defenses, and rebuttals....but the important part being Kerry based on what Kerry is or represents. There have certainly been enough critical and even sarcastic comments aimed at Bush all over this forum. I wanted to see a thread based on Kerry and his positions alone, without Bush being a factor, unless of course Kerry support would simply be a non-Bush support. We can ask which would make the better pet - a tarantula or a snake? I wanted some tarantula supporters why they felt a tarantula would make a good pet - taking the snake out of the equation because, when you get it home, the snake is out of the picture and you still have the tarantula.

That's all I asked for. Until Brad and LR made fashinably late appearances few people had anything positive to say about Kerry, reverting to finger-pointing at Bush instead. They just couldn't keep him out of it, apparently. Brad and LR's input were informative as to what Kerry's goals are. All politicians make promises, of course, and few of them seem to come to pass. If someone feels that John-John will indeed follow up on these lofty goals, then that's what I was looking for. Recalling how Clinton's major promise to the people for votes was a strong national health plan (and then hearing him on 60 Minutes after his book came out stating that his biggest disappointment was not coming up with a good national health plan) - it's interesting to see Kerry promising the same thing. Will these things come to pass? Who can say? They are political promises, creatures which seldom see the light of day.

The key to gambling is to minimize one's losses. It seems to me our major questions here should be, not to select the hand which promises the most, but to make the bets intelligent enough to lose the least amount possible should the hand not succeed. Which candidate would give us the smallest loss? Good question....
Juju
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131 posted 07-26-2004 09:17 PM       View Profile for Juju   Email Juju   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Juju's Home Page   View IP for Juju

Actually, (to the person who burned me) I was refering to his speeches. I know what he stands for, I checked out the D- platform.  I also know that changing platforms is actually normal. I just think the platform and his voting record are incongruent, but on the other hand polititions do that. I just think because he is changing his platform so much he has his own agenda, as for the whales............  
do I even have to say any thing?

But I do have a question What has more wild life the gulf of mexico or alaska?  Bush wants to get oil in alaska and Kerry says he plans to get some in the gulf. I can't remember which state he was in, but I saw it on fox. Kerry's education plan is not origanal, More funding won't fix problems. Schools are funded locally, and also the state, sometimes.  PERSONALLY Bush has made two mistakes as president: he is too loyal and he didn't send enuff troops, but other then that, he accomplished alot. I supose I could explain why he was too loyal and how that hurt him, but you all should know that.  

Ron.... you would rather want some one who would sit there and do nothing?

One of myt teachers one said "regardless of what happens is cruel or wrong, its even worse to do nothing about it"

-Just a thought

Juju
catalinamoon
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132 posted 07-30-2004 05:26 PM       View Profile for catalinamoon   Email catalinamoon   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit catalinamoon's Home Page   View IP for catalinamoon

OK here is my 5 cents..I am voting for Kerry and Edwards. I am proud of it, I wish more people would be. Kerry was a super privileged young man who volunteered to go to vietnam. He came home after, and said it was wrong, and that we needed to withdraw. He stood up for his extremely unpopular opinions. I admire that.
I also believe that he wants to bring the country together, and that he cares about childrens issues and the elderly.  And on the anyone but Bush scenario, the entire world HATES us these days, that will improve with a new president, I am sure of it. I have a close friend in England and she tells me the prevailing opinion of Bush there, and it is scary. And they are our "allies". Imagine what our enemies think of him. Not to disagree with anyone here, but I feel strongly enough about this to get my head bitten off.
John Edwards is a good guy too, why the picking on of him? He has stood up for people against big companies for years, and has a lot of caring attitudes.(compare to Cheney..)
Sandra
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133 posted 07-30-2004 05:50 PM       View Profile for Toerag   Email Toerag   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Toerag

Catalina...without responding to anything you've said...go look at what his fellow soldiers say about him www.drudgereport.com/dnc82.htm

if it won't open...go to drudgereport and look for the book that's coming out from his fellow vets that served side by side with him next week....Who would know him better?
Brad
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134 posted 07-31-2004 04:22 AM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Juju,

Sorry to be picking on you the last few days, nothing personal, but since you brought up the oil thing twice, I found this:
http://www.tallahassee.com/mld/tallahassee/news/local/8488649.htm

Here's the quote from Kerry:

quote:
"I support oil drilling in the right places," Kerry had said. "There is a capacity to protect what we have today - the protections for the coast of Florida - and still be able to drill in those locations where they're already permitting, already had the environmental impact study, they've already had the leases."


The Kerry campaign immediately issued a denial that Kerry intended to reopen older drilling areas or to expand current drilling areas, but only intended to use current drilling areas.

The article (from the college newspaper) goes on to ask why only Florida's coastline was mentioned and not other states.

I think that's an easy one.

Because he was in Florida at the time.

I also read a blog that seemed to present the same dichotomy between the Gulf's and the Alaskan reserve.

It must be one or the other?

The thinking here is clear.

Bush supports the opening of the Alaskan reserve, but, upon the request of his brother, has helped shut down several drilling spots near the Florida coast.

It would have been nice to have Kerry want the opposite, wouldn't it?

Sorry guys, wishful thinking at its best.
Brad
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Jejudo, South Korea


135 posted 07-31-2004 05:17 AM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Well, snopes comes to the rescue concerning Kerry's purple hearts:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/service.asp

quote:
Under [Navy Admiral Elmo] Zumwalt's command, swift boats would aggressively engage the enemy. Zumwalt, who died in 2000, calculated in his autobiography that these men under his command had a 75 percent chance of being killed or wounded during a typical year.

"There were an awful lot of Purple Hearts from shrapnel, some of those might have been M-40 grenades," said George Elliott, Kerry's commanding officer. "The Purple Hearts were coming down in boxes. Kerry, he had three Purple Hearts. None of them took him off duty. Not to belittle it, that was more the rule than the exception."
And according to Douglas Brinkley's history of John Kerry and the Vietnam War:
As generally understood, the Purple Heart is given to any U.S. citizen wounded in wartime service to the nation. Giving out Purple Hearts increased as the United States started sending Swifts up rivers. Sailors no longer safe on aircraft carriers or battleships in the Gulf of Tonkin were starting to bleed, a lot.


Don't you think that many of these men are a little more upset with Kerry's actions after his military service than during?
Juju
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In your dreams


136 posted 07-31-2004 01:26 PM       View Profile for Juju   Email Juju   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Juju's Home Page   View IP for Juju

Heh brad your not picking on me at all, just putting your opinion down. When I heard him say that he was not in florida, It was south but not floria. "Thats why I have supported oil drilling in the gulf"  Is what I Heard him say in reference to or dependence on foriegn oil. Heh we could be talking about the same thing, buton the other hand that was not what I heard him say. I am sure that he took it back too.

oh well

Juju
 
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