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Passions in Poetry

Why Not Kerry??

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Balladeer
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25 posted 07-12-2004 08:50 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Lee J, I'm with you!!  But let's not just limit it to presidents...bring the congress in. Let them have to live under the laws they pass. Let them have to rely on the health care in which they prescribe for the rest of the country....I'd LOVE to see that!!!
Juju
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26 posted 07-13-2004 12:23 AM       View Profile for Juju   Email Juju   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Juju's Home Page   View IP for Juju

Ok, now I can finish my point of vewi

Basically when they where in the primaries they passed some nasty propaganda to each other. Nastier then whats going on between Bush and Kerry. Kerry does not like Edwards and Vise Versa. This could cause mistrust(or more) among voters.

Why I don't like Kerry(attacking his plat form):
He wants more money for schools. Nice plan
               * Not original. polititions have been saying more money for schools years, but only improvements in quality education was standerdize testing. Remember bush sujjested no child left behind, and the congress made it  have no budget. bush has been pushing  money for eduacation, but you realize if the state funded the rules and the school had no consequences, then it wouldn't help.

He wants to hand over Irack to UN and hae better relations.
               *Iraq is it's own contry
               *well having better relations is nice, but he doesn't say how
               * We are part of the UN, in fact The USA is in the top five.
               * Us soldier will still be there, only control would be by generals who are not familiar with the war
                *I am sure none of you remember Sudan. Well once apon a time in a place called Sudan, Civil war among different tribes spread throughout the country. "fighter poeple" would steal food from neiboring vilages to feed the fighters. Because there was no food famine covered the land. So the peace keeping marines came and delivered food, organized the leaders and got them to agree not to fight any more. So the poeple injoyed are stay here ecause we stablized there society. So we hand it over to the UN. ONe terrist was stealing food from villages, so what do they do?  THey start Barging  in to homes looking for the terrerist. well doesn't sound bad, until you realize that When they were doing this they failed to in form the public and do it with care. Because they didn't inform the public the terrorists did blaming americans (even though it was the un, but the poeple didn't understand, cause the still saw some americans) and the comanders did a sloppy job at not killing civillians. Sudan's poeple were angry and blamed america. American's were tageted; war brock out against the US.  This was a horible war in a similar location same debate. If this still doesn't ring a bell, "black hawk down."
                    * we have as good as were gonna get with The UN Because of the scandel situation.
                    
more protecting the envirement
                    *The guy has 6-8 suvs, later he said they were his wives. heh, kinda like buying a boling ball  and ultimate fishing magazine for her birthday
                     * There is really no plan. He ACTUAL has flunctuated in envirement issues

Ever one deserves  fair health care.
               *tHE people with out health care chose to be. Thye gov. already funds HMO's to welfair, adopted and foster children, and some other cases. every one else pays really low premiums. Now there are some bad things, like because of an unbalence in poeple, providers and medication is limated. Idealy Hmo's are a great plans if you take atvantage of them, or if you want to pay much more money for full coverage.

------------
Now I could be wrong cause every week and a half his p[latform changes........

The only reason the democratic party picked Kerry is becaus e bush is an uncertain grounds for winning the elections. What worries me is that kerry won't debate with bush. You would think Kerry would have an atvantage over Bush's public speaking skills... this leads me to believe the party must not want him too.

Bush adm. has been using terrer alerts as propaganda..... Yeah I highly doubt it.

For those who ead this, you like to read.
Sudhir Iyer
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27 posted 07-13-2004 08:05 AM       View Profile for Sudhir Iyer   Email Sudhir Iyer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Sudhir Iyer

spellings, my friend, spellings...

they matter a lot...
suthern
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28 posted 07-13-2004 09:03 AM       View Profile for suthern   Email suthern   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for suthern

I know this is off topic... but the comments about primary opponents becoming a political team bother me... It's not exactly the first time this has happened... Does anyone remember Reagan-Bush?? They were opponents in the primaries and disagreed vehemently on some issues, too... Would there be any real benefit to having the ideological equivalent of identical twins on a ticket?
LeeJ
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29 posted 07-13-2004 10:01 AM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

I'd like someone to prove to me how the economy is growing, not just say so,,,but give me proof...and why is it growing?

How could it be growing?  And so quickly?  What is the cause of the turn around...could someone be so kind as to explain that issue to me?

I'm with ya Deer on the voting issue...feel the same way

and yes, absolutely make ALL politicans responsible or oust em....at this rate, all they've succeeded in doing is cause great hate between the left and the right groups, which is what they want...lets be honest, no man is perfect, there is good an bad in everyone...and inbetween (I'm saying that because I don't want to see things black and white) anyway...every politician is crooked, and more concerned about what's in it for them rather then the people.  Isn't anyone out there apalled at what is being done...I mean, neither candidate engages in what they intent to do on their agendas to clean things up....what they do is deliberately attack each other, pointing fingers like little kids...he did this or that...my gosh...and one of these men is going to be leader of our country?????  That scares me!

My name is Lee J. and I approve this message.

Balladeer
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30 posted 07-13-2004 11:22 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

I don't disagree with you, Lee, but I don't see a problem with finger pointing...as long as the facts are accurate. When people serve in public office there is a record on file of their choices and abilities. They can't really deny them because they are there in black and white. If a candidate says "I'm gonna do this...." on a topic in which he has NEVER done that and even votes against it, I see nothing wrong with pointing that out. In Bush's last commercial he points out that John Kerry has failed to vote on 92% of the bills in congress - that he has the worst voting record of everyone in congress. Is it wrong to point that out? I don't think so. Look at the example of last week when the director of Homeland Security offered him the latest briefing on national security. He said - on television - that he just didn't have time to read it. The interviewer almost fell of his chair!  We could entrust the our security to this man and he doesn't have time for reports on the status of national security? Seems to tie in to never having the time to vote, either. Wrong to point that out? I don't think so. The topics of things he "didn't have time" to vote for would astound you. I can assure you if it were Bush with that voting record he would be being barbequed on front pages all over the country and the Democrats would have a field day with it. Since it's Kerry and not Bush, people will only know it by Bush's commercials. People SHOULD be called on to answer for their record. If it comes out negative, that's not the fault of the exposer as long as the facts are accurate. When it becomes pure innuendos with no facts given to back it up, then it's garbage.

Even this reply is not "anti-Kerry". These are just simple facts which are verified by his record and his own words. It's like the old Spanish saying..."What you are speaks so loudly that I can't hear what you're saying."

If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read it in English, thank a soldier.

Purple Poet On Wheels
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31 posted 07-13-2004 11:49 AM       View Profile for Purple Poet On Wheels   Email Purple Poet On Wheels   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Purple Poet On Wheels

Kerry is the lesser of two evils

Vote Kerry/Edwards

LeeJ
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32 posted 07-13-2004 12:01 PM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

Deer I stand corrected, and was trying more so to point out the garbage...but...your reply had it's impact...and your correct in what your saying...but...once again...don't you want to hear what they are going to do, I'd much rather hear the hows and whys, and answers to them.  What I mean is this...I wonder if you went around and spoke to every American, including me....asking us all, Why did you vote for that man?  And if they answered truely, maybe those answers would astound you.  We are so politically ignorant...to some degree...

Stating the facts is ok, and there is a time and a place, but to, there must be something more constructive and informative...and neither one is doing so.  But to actually waste money on TV commercials, and to me it's a waste...I'd rather see them and hear them, telling me what they're going to do, and how they're going to do it.  I want to know their agendas.  My point being is people actually feed off of some of that stuff and they forget other more important issues at hand.  

You know...why is it that I don't hear to many people asking about what is going to be done about the over 300,000 illegals in this coutry?  And where are we going with this, as far as welfare, as far as medical insurances and as far as them abiding by the laws?  To me, this is a big issue that must be addressed?

Thanks for reading and considering...and also for your point of view...

Not A Poet
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33 posted 07-13-2004 12:11 PM       View Profile for Not A Poet   Email Not A Poet   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Not A Poet's Home Page   View IP for Not A Poet

Hearing a politician telling "what he is going to do" is misinformation and completely useless. This is particularly true when what he says completely contradicts his voting record, or record of not voting as the case may be.

Don't waste your time listening to their rhetoric and BS. Instead look at what they have done so far. That is a much more reliable indicator of what to expect from them in the future. It's something like "a tiger's stripes don't change" or "a rose by any other name..." The same applies to a snake.

Balladeer
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34 posted 07-13-2004 12:26 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Lee, I have the perfect solutions for the 300,000 illegal aliens they can't seem to keep track of. During the last "mad cow" incident we had in the US, the cow's lineage was traced to a farm in Canada and even all of the offspring of that cow were tracked to every area where they were currently residing. All we have to do is give every illegal alien a cow when they reach the US and we'll be able to find them with no problem!!
Ron
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35 posted 07-13-2004 12:38 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
...every politician is crooked, and more concerned about what's in it for them rather then the people.


I actually wish that were true, Lee. Dishonest men never scare me because their limitations are imposed by their own fears of getting caught. They won't do anything that will hurt them. Men of misplaced conviction, however, have no such limitations. They can justify anything and everything they do because they truly believe in a greater good that only they can see. Whether they are strapping bombs to their chest or blatantly lying to the public, they are convinced they are right. Such men can sometimes be avoided, but they can never be stopped.

quote:
I can assure you if it were Bush with that voting record he would be being barbequed on front pages all over the country and the Democrats would have a field day with it.

LOL. So you're suggesting Governor Bush voted on more Congressional bills than Kerry?  

quote:
These are just simple facts which are verified by his record and his own words.

Then my innuendo above that Bush has a MUCH worse record than Kerry is also a simple fact verified by the records?

My point, of course Mike, is that simple facts are invariably misleading when presented out of context. And they are *always* presented out of context in a political campaign!


iliana
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36 posted 07-13-2004 01:06 PM       View Profile for iliana   Email iliana   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for iliana

Sorry, Lee, a better candidate has come along.  Instead of you for president, I think you should be VP and we should write in Ron's name!  You rock, Ron!
Balladeer
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37 posted 07-13-2004 01:51 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Ron, I have absolutely no idea what your example represented. Stating that Kerry didn't vote 92% of the time is not misleading - it's public record that means Kerry didn't vote 92% of the time....period. It is not made to be a comparison to Bush - it's meant to state that Kerry didn't vote 92% of the time...nothing misleading and nothing out of context....just a simple, verifiable fact concerning John Kerry. Of course my statement about what if Bush had that record would carry the natural inference that Bush as a congressman with that record....so obviously you're just funning me
LeeJ
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38 posted 07-13-2004 02:14 PM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

Deer, you had me rolling on the floor with your mad cow comment....

Both of you have added some very good point of views to this discussion...especially your last one Ron...good! I have learned something here today...thanks to both of you for taking the time to share...

JO...I would never ever make a good President, or VP...I'd miss my friends, going to the Dairy Queen, and heck...
my big mouth would get me in oddles of trouble...they'd hang me from the pillars of the front of the white house....hehehehehhehe
LeeJ
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39 posted 07-13-2004 02:15 PM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

Not a poet...thank you, point well taken with room for thought.
serenity blaze
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40 posted 07-13-2004 03:32 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Ron said:

"Dishonest men never scare me because their limitations are imposed by their own fears of getting caught. They won't do anything that will hurt them. Men of misplaced conviction, however, have no such limitations."

That is exactly why I campaigned for Edwin Edwards in that infamous election.

Ron
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41 posted 07-13-2004 03:59 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
Stating that Kerry didn't vote 92% of the time is not misleading - it's public record that means Kerry didn't vote 92% of the time....period.

If that's an important criteria, Mike, then it stands to reason Kerry would make a better President than would the incumbent. Bush, of course, failed to vote 100 percent of the time.

Better yet, tell us which Senator or Congressman has participated in every single vote. It would stand to reason that he or she should sit in the oval office next. Or give us some equitable numbers for comparison. What was JFK's voting record? Ford's? Since about 95 percent of all proposed legislation is crap (and half of that is "for the record" and never intended to pass), maybe Kerry's 92 percent record makes perfect sense? It might be more reasonable to point fingers at someone who is wasting time on bills meant only to justify a lawmaker's existence?

Simple facts are rarely simple, often irrelevant, and almost always misleading.
Not A Poet
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42 posted 07-13-2004 06:13 PM       View Profile for Not A Poet   Email Not A Poet   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Not A Poet's Home Page   View IP for Not A Poet

But then Bush was not being paid with the public's money to assist in making laws. In fact, he was not authorized to vote on any of those bills and would not have been allowed to any more than you or I would have. An important part of that job is voting on bills. Those that are crap deserve a NO vote. A senator who is "too busy" to even look at the intel on possible terrorism should be removed from office and certainly does not have the credentials or moral makeup to be president.
Juju
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43 posted 07-13-2004 07:26 PM       View Profile for Juju   Email Juju   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Juju's Home Page   View IP for Juju

Actually Lee Jay Bush has adressed about illegal immegrants.
He pushes bills that allow them to go for their citizen ship. You see Mexican' and some other cebtral american imegrants aren't allowede to.

Kerry the lesser of the two evils?

Well don't complain if you vote for him.
Funny you say that. You just put your self in ballideers genarlization. Congrats.

As for Why I thought THe "Two John ticket" was weird. They have different veiws. And they said some nasty stuff to each other. Yeah I know its not the first, but so is handing over the fate of a country to the UN, after the Sudan incident is wierd top me too. Its just a personal opinion really, and not an argument.  

The one Bad thing about Bush is he has not been sticking upo for him self. Thats really to bad.
Juju

Juju
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44 posted 07-13-2004 09:33 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Ron, I have to assume you're just pulling my leg, comparing Kerry's voting to Bush's, who is not a congressman able to vote. The rest of your reply I must assume is more leg-pulling since it is all composed of smoke and mirrors and sleight-of-hand.

Better yet, tell us which Senator or Congressman has participated in every single vote

We are not talking every single vote....we are talking 92% failure to vote. There is one hell of a difference between 92% failure and 100% compliance. Smoke and mirrors.

Since about 95 percent of all proposed legislation is crap (and half of that is "for the record" and never intended to pass), maybe Kerry's 92 percent record makes perfect sense?

Ok, since Kerry's percentage makes perfect sense then you are saying it makes no semse for other congressmen who DO vote on legislation a greater part of the time. You really believe that, Ron? Or does throwing the "maybe" in there give you the out of saying you may not have really meant that?

Ok, I will investigate the voting record of other, like you suggest, and I have a request of you. You say that 95% of all proposed legislation is crap, I would like to see some factual evidence to back up that statement.

Let's face it. A voting record like that is lacking. Any rational person, for or against Kerry, would acknowledge that. It doesn't mean that Kerry would make a horrible president. It just means his voting record sucks. For you, or anyone, to try to justify it or make excuses for it instead of simply acknowledging it for what it is  and moving on is proof positive why these discussions never go anywhere...
Ron
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45 posted 07-13-2004 10:13 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
But then Bush was not being paid with the public's money to assist in making laws.

Well, golly gee, someone actually gets it!

You mean, Pete, that simply saying Bush had a 100 percent failure to vote isn't enough upon which to base my conclusion? We need *more* than one simple fact if we're to be accurate? Knowing the REASON for his abysmal record makes a difference? Who'da thunk?

I'm not arguing the integrity of the facts, guys, I'm arguing the presentation. There is no such thing as a simple fact. Without a yardstick against which to measure it, 92 percent tells us nothing. If Kerry is the only Senator to miss so many votes, that tells us one thing. If no Senator in recent history ever makes even half the votes, that tells us something else entirely. I honestly don't know the truth, and clearly one "simple fact" isn't going to reveal it, either.
Balladeer
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46 posted 07-13-2004 10:18 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Ron, the presentation was simple. Kerry missed 92% of the votes. That represents the worst record of any congressman. How can that be more simple???
Tim
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47 posted 07-13-2004 10:26 PM       View Profile for Tim   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Tim

Can't compare Dole's voting record to Kerry's.  Dole resigned from his Senate seat to run for president.  Kerry didn't. I even think there was an ex-president who ran for governor of Arkansas on the theme if you hold an office and get paid for it, you ought to show up once and a while. It seems his opponent didn't resign from Congress and spent very little time in Washington while campaigning in Arkansas for governor.

It appears to me to be a matter of integrity, but then again, integrity is in the eye of the beholder.  

Not meant as an endorsement for either candidate, but don't try and sell the idea you go on hiatus from your U.S. Senate seat and expect to be able to rationalize your absence.  Don't know of many jobs you can say, heck fire, I am seeking another job and will be gone for a year, but keep sending the paycheck.
Fisherman
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48 posted 07-13-2004 10:31 PM       View Profile for Fisherman   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Fisherman

*
Tim
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49 posted 07-13-2004 10:34 PM       View Profile for Tim   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Tim

I stand to be corrected, but I recall back in the primaries, Gephart got blasted for his poor voting record when Lieberman's and Edwards were both about the same percentage, just that they were voting the percentage Gephart was not.

Kerry stayed out of the fray because his voting record was a poor 60% of votes cast.
 
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