How to Join Member's Area Private Library Search Today's Topics p Login
Main Forums Discussion Tech Talk Mature Content Archives
   Nav Win
 Discussion
 The Alley
 Do we need to go to church?   [ Page: 1  2  ]
 25 26 27 28 29 30
Follow us on Facebook

 Moderated by: Ron   (Admins )

 
User Options
Format for Better Printing EMail to a Friend Not Available
Admin Print Send ECard
Passions in Poetry

Do we need to go to church?

 Post A Reply Post New Topic   Go to the Next Oldest/Previous Topic Return to Topic Page Go to the Next Newest Topic 
sea_of_okc
Senior Member
since 06-15-99
Posts 595
Oklahoma City, OK, USA


25 posted 03-11-2004 05:20 PM       View Profile for sea_of_okc   Email sea_of_okc   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for sea_of_okc

I understand where goldenrose is coming from and it is not communistic. The question is in an ideal world what is the purpose of the church? It is simply to take care of the flock. There should be no need for any mambers of a church family to go without the necessities of life, the church was always the first place for charity. Today so many religions are being run like businesses in competition with one another trying to fill thier seats and coffers. I believe the point golden is trying to make is wouldn't the money religions spend on grandiose buildings, fine furnishings, expensive clothing, etc etc better serve God's purpose for the church if it went to helping the needy? Why should leaders of any religion live like kings? They should live the same as the lowliest of the church's servants. After all, though Jesus was the greatest He lived the most humbly.
Denise
Moderator
Member Seraphic
since 08-22-99
Posts 23002


26 posted 03-11-2004 07:32 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Goldenrose, my point is that you can't just decide to force any institution or any person to give up their wealth because you or I think that they should for the betterment of society. Well, you could, but that would be communistic. You can't force a display of compassion. Other's wealth is not ours to decide what is to be done with it. It is theirs. It becomes theirs when the contributions are given to them. And if the people in those institutions don't want to contribute any longer to those institutions because they think the money would be put to better use elsewhere, well, then they can just stop contributing to them.

As for Mother Teresa, no one forced her to give up all that she had. That was her choice. She voluntarily gave up her significant family wealth and devoted her life to selflessly serving the poor and the outcasts of society. I think that's beautiful and I think it is Christ-like. But if it had been something that had been forced upon her, well then, where's the beauty or Christ-likeness in such a situation? We all have our different callings in life, as I see it. Some are called to live as Mother Teresa did, some aren't but are called to serve in other ways, and again, I think that someone's calling is between them and God, and not something to be judged by anyone else. Your compassion for the poor is commedable, Goldenrose. I just think you cross the line in your zealousness when you advocate the confiscation of other's wealth to meet their needs. Perhaps you should just ask what you could do with some portion of your money in the way of alleviating some of the suffering in the world, or maybe you might want to use your compassion to start some sort of organization to raise money (voluntarily from others) to help the poor. I'm sure if you channeled that compassion in a constructive way you could accomplish great things!

GG, that is a verse that is used by many churches to compel attendance, and usually it is interpreted in such a way as to intimate that you aren't following God's will if you aren't at church for Sunday morning Bible study, Worship service, Sunday evening Praise and Worship (or Saturday, depending on the denomination), Mid-week Bible study and fellowship and on and on and on. To me the verse simply means not to forsake gathering together with other believers, no time or place designations. Remember, at the time it was written, there were no 'organized' institutions as we have today, such as the First Methodist Church at Fifth and Main. There were informal gatherings, mostly in other's homes. Now if someone wants to go to all the services offered at a local organized institution, that's fine. I just think that the verse is used heavy-handedly by a lot of them, in my experience anyway. In fact all (about 4 or 5 different denominations) of the churches that I have attended over the years have used it that way. I think they read more into it than what is actually being said.

And you might want to do a study on the concept of tithing as preached in most churches too. Tithing was a part of the Mosaic Law and it never involved money, it was giving a percentage of crops and livestock, etc. (and they did have money back then!) and it never applied to the poor, and it was given only to the Nation of Israel for the purpose of taking care of the priesthood (the Levites, I think?) and not to the people of the other nations. It was really like their taxation. There is nothing in the New Testament Epistles to Christians concerning tithing. The only thing mentioned to Christians is to give voluntarily from your heart, to give to the poor, to give to those who teach you, and not under compulsion, and not letting your right hand know what the left is doing, etc. I think this is another topic that is mishandled and misapplied by most churches today too. And again, if someone wants to give 10% or more of their income (one church I went to said that it had to be at least 10% of your gross wages, before taxes, in order to be in compliance, otherwise you were stealing from God) that's wonderful. But I don't see it taught as a principle for Christians. And I've learned over the years, the hard way, that we have to question and study out everything that we are told before something can be accepted as a truth. I think a healthy skepticism is a great safeguard, especially in biblical matters.    
GG
Member Elite
since 12-03-2002
Posts 3615
Lost in thought


27 posted 03-11-2004 08:52 PM       View Profile for GG   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for GG

Denise,
You're right that the verse is overused in a manner made to make people feel like they need to attend every single church event. That isn't my intention. I agree that it means we need to not forsake gathering together with other believers without specific time or place designations... but also think the point of the meeting needs to be for fellowship and teaching of Christ and His word. There are few times I know of that happens apart from at a church.

And as for tithing, I agree with most of what you said there, too. I shouldn't have used the word tithing, maybe offering would have been more accurate, or at least a better explnation of what I meant by it. But I do still think we're told to give, whether it be money or some other fruit of our labor. As you said, the Bible says (in 1 corinthians 9) that we need to give to our teachers.. to Christian workers. Its an obligation. Not a tithing law bound by a physical letter, but maybe even more binding, its a spiritual administration. Even Cain and Abel were compelled to give to God before a law was in place demanding it. When Cain didn't give God what He rightly deserved, Cain was punished. And later, the laws about the priesthood and tithing weren't so much done away with but more so they were transferred to the eternal, immortal priesthood... Melchizedek, Christ (Hebrews 7). In what I get from that it means we're to give an offering, humbly (and cautiously as to make sure it is going for a godly cause) but also necessarily.

So, show me the fault in that. I'm sixteen and still have alot more to learn...

Always God's Girl, Alyssa


He was a man of sorrows
...I am a girl of tears.
Denise
Moderator
Member Seraphic
since 08-22-99
Posts 23002


28 posted 03-11-2004 09:26 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Yes, I'd definitely agree that the gathering together with other believers would have its purpose centered in Christ. Absolutely!

And yes, Offering is a much better word to describe a Christian's giving. I would just encourage you to try to let go of that little word 'necessarily', because, and maybe even to your surprise, you will find yourself still giving and giving even more joyfully. I know it sure surprised me! Looking back, I never really gave 'freely' and 'joyfully' as long as 'necessity' was lurking in the background. And I'm not finding fault, Alyssa, I'm just sharing some of what I've learned the hard way through the years. And free of charge to boot!
GG
Member Elite
since 12-03-2002
Posts 3615
Lost in thought


29 posted 03-11-2004 09:45 PM       View Profile for GG   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for GG

I should have been more careful with that last line 'show me the fault' too.. heh it looked proud and disrespectful, but I meant it honestly. I DO have a lot to learn still, and want to know where I'm too off on what I'm saying or how I'm translating things.


God bless.
Always God's Girl, Alyssa

He was a man of sorrows
...I am a girl of tears.

Denise
Moderator
Member Seraphic
since 08-22-99
Posts 23002


30 posted 03-11-2004 10:00 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

I took it as an honest question, Alyssa, not as prideful or disrespectful.
Goldenrose will be notified of replies
 Post A Reply Post New Topic   Go to the Next Oldest/Previous Topic Return to Topic Page Go to the Next Newest Topic 
All times are ET (US) Top
  User Options
>> Discussion >> The Alley >> Do we need to go to church?   [ Page: 1  2  ] Format for Better Printing EMail to a Friend Not Available
Print Send ECard

 

pipTalk Home Page | Main Poetry Forums

How to Join | Member's Area / Help | Private Library | Search | Contact Us | Today's Topics | Login
Discussion | Tech Talk | Archives | Sanctuary



© Passions in Poetry and netpoets.com 1998-2013
All Poetry and Prose is copyrighted by the individual authors