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Passions in Poetry

Mel Gibson's Passion of the Christ

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serenity blaze
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125 posted 08-02-2006 12:50 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

In light of recent events, I was just wondering if anyone has changed their mind regarding the intent of Mel Gibson?
Alicat
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126 posted 08-02-2006 02:40 PM       View Profile for Alicat   Email Alicat   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alicat

Nope.  It is true that 'drink brings truth', but he's an actor.  He's not a politician, he does not create public policy, he is not an elected official; neither is he a paid member of any organized religion.  He's a citizen who said something incredibly stupid while drunk.  I'd love to hear what George Soros, one of the few people to have been banned from Vichy France of all places for being too liberal, had to say while drunk.
Ron
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127 posted 08-02-2006 03:46 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

I think it's entirely possible, despite his own claims to the contrary, that Mel Gibson harbors ill feelings toward Jews. Many people, it seems, still sadly do.

On the other hand, I think it's also possible a drunk and very angry man attacked the first thing he could about the target of his anger. Had the officer arresting Gibson been female, we might well be reading how sexist the star of "What Women Want" really is.

When you're mad and want to hurt someone, vitriol is rarely going to be limited by personal belief. In fact, I'm not sure it's limited by much of anything. It just has to hurt.
serenity blaze
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128 posted 08-02-2006 06:15 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze



More curious about public opinion guys.

I still don't know Mr. Gibson, and I still haven't watched the movie. I tried to watch "What Women Want" but this woman didn't wanna watch it.

But I did remember the passion of this thread...
Ron
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129 posted 08-02-2006 06:35 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
More curious about public opinion guys.

We don't count as public any more?
Mistletoe Angel
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130 posted 08-02-2006 07:55 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

This whole controversy really is no laughing matter.

What's especially interesting here is that Mel Gibson said in his PR statement regarding the instant that though he certainly regrets what he said and that he is not an anti-Semite, he also said in this statement that he wants to figure out what it was that made him say those vulgar things, and that‘s when he was seeking the Jewish community‘s help.

So I think there's something else here, something beyond the bottle itself, that something inside of him caused him to do and say these things, and that's what makes this controversy all the more interesting. I personally feel Gibson must be grappling with some sort of personal issues or demons as of late, and what they are I just can't say.

Moreover, the reason why I think many are still skeptical of Gibson's apology being genuine is that he hasn't yet apologized publicly to the female police officer to whom he used these words on, so some women generally speaking may question his treatment to women here as well, or police officers.

So really there's several issues all being juggled at once here, where some question Gibson being an anti-Semite, fewer others questioning him of being a misoygnist somehow, and others thinking he holds some sort of grudge against the police. And that's exactly why this is seen as a huge issue across the landscape.

Some are laughing at Gibson, I'm not, and I think in the most part Gibson meant well in his apology. But I do think he's grappling with something else either emotionally or psychologically here, and that should be of deep concern here, for not trying to resolve the source of this conflict could inevitably lead to future mishaps on his part similar to this.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton

"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

Mother Teresa

serenity blaze
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131 posted 08-02-2006 08:16 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Of course ya'll count Ron--that's why I asked.

I'm not laughing at it either Noah.

And thanks Ali, as I wondered if anyone would take into account that tequila was involved too. I find it interesting because as a substance abuser myself, I know I've done and said some mighty stupid things while under the influence.

Why, some of them were in this very forum!



And further, I do know that a major aspect of "recovery"--if you can call it that--involves taking an objective moral inventory of yourself.

and sigh, I wasn't asking the question just to start trouble. I've got trouble to the West of me, trouble to the East--if anything, I am guilty of nervous self distraction of late, not trouble seeking.

So I truly was curious as to what the people in this thread thought, as it was thier opinion I most strongly recollect. I do spend an awful lotta time here. And it's cause I LOVE YOU.

Sunshine
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132 posted 08-02-2006 09:42 PM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine

I sincerely hope that, as some news accounts indicate, that this incident won't bring his career to an end.

Just as he chose to drink, and knowing that he has a real problem with it, may well be the same reason he will work very hard to disassociate himself from further incidents of this nature, while working very hard to make his amends.

Like Ali, I think he will overcome it.  But it will be his choice.

Meanwhile, those that love to kick people while they are down will have a field day, I'm afraid.

Ron
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133 posted 08-02-2006 11:17 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
But I do think he's grappling with something else either emotionally or psychologically here ...

He's an admitted alcoholic, Noah. Yea, he's grappling. And he'll be grappling for the rest of his life.

I think anyone who has previously been the target of a drunken rage has a pretty good idea of what happened. His fight with the phone. His oh-woe-is-me remarks about the state of his life. His verbal abuse of anyone who stands in his way. These are all classic symptoms. One could take the symptoms alone or out of context, and perhaps conclude that Mel Gibson has a deeply seated hatred of telephones, but I suspect that would be a mistake.

Sometimes a cigar really is just a cigar.
Mistletoe Angel
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134 posted 08-03-2006 12:27 AM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

Unfortunately, I think you're right, Karilea, in that the detractors have so much cannon fodder to use on Gibson, and they're going to use as much of it as they can on him.

I believe his movie career won't end despite this controversy, but this incident, sadly, will still severely hurt his credibility and likeability among a number of circles.

Sinead O'Connor was truly a most talented singer and I believe deserved far more longevity than she has gotten as an artist. However, we all know well from her experience what a comment like blasting Pope John Paul II on Saturday Night Live, where she encouraged everyone to "fight the enemy" can do, and that she's never going to recover from that infamous incident, which I myself strongly disagree with what she did, which if that is any indication, this incident will always leave some sort of scar on Mel Gibson's public profile.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton

"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

Mother Teresa

kif kif
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135 posted 08-03-2006 05:06 AM       View Profile for kif kif   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for kif kif

I've never watched "The Passion Of Christ", but he was quite good in "Braveheart". I'm sure another actor would have been just as good.

Alcoholics are [profanity removed - Ron]

That's the thing about free speech-there has to be a point where the sober *majority decide that hateful people have no right to continue blabbering away to the World. Let him slaver into his drink, and leave him at the bar.

[LOL. Looks like your advice is going to be followed, at least within the confines of this thread. Your free speech, at any rate, is going to be limited in these forums by your ability to communicate without being offensive. - Ron]

*Of course, an extreme version would bring the Tyranny Of The Majority, but some things should not be heard so loudly. If the guy was a sheet metal worker, he'd be talking to a lot less people, and he'd run the risk of being beaten up.

[This message has been edited by Ron (08-03-2006 09:55 AM).]

Brian James
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136 posted 08-03-2006 01:58 PM       View Profile for Brian James   Email Brian James   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brian James

A while ago, in my Chaucer class, someone brought up the fact that the study of historical legal documents suggests that Chaucer was once tried for "raptus," an ambiguous Latin word that might mean rape.  Boy, that was some interesting conversation.

I still like the Canterbury Tales though, and I still like The Passion of the Christ, regardless of who Mel Gibson happens to be.
serenity blaze
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137 posted 08-03-2006 04:28 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

"Alcoholics are [profanity removed - Ron]"

Smile.

Sometimes the imagination is far worse than the reality, as I am filling in the blank and depressing the hell out of myself.

I brought this back up because I was curious, and I was curious from the point of view of a substance abuser.

kif kif's reply reminded me that I should be careful of what I ask, but then, maybe I need to hear it. But I think it should prolly be another thread.



Thanks for your time everybody. And btw? Without the compassion and understanding of Ron, I would have been banned from this site a long time ago.

Nod. Don't think I don't keep that in mind.



Sunshine
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138 posted 08-03-2006 04:39 PM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine

http://breakingnews.iol.ie/entertainment/story.asp?j=191067604&p=y9yx683yx

I believe that with a holding out of hands to envelope some understanding...that some will say..."just continue to educate yourself to our understanding, as we make that attempt to understand you..."

At least, it appears to be a sane effort.
Mistletoe Angel
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139 posted 08-03-2006 05:33 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

That's good news, Karilea! I'm so glad you shared it!

The events these past few days have been sad to hear about. I haven't agreed with some of Mel Gibson's opinions or behavior over the past decade or so, but he's always been one of my favorite actors, and I'd hate to see his legacy stop here.

I recognize, as a fellow Catholic, that Gibson has been no stranger to controversy, and I have disagreed with some of the things he has said and done, such as when he told the author of a biography he wasn't consulted about, "I don't think God will put him in my path. He deserves death." Nor do I really like how he behaves or asserts himself toward the homosexual community necessarily.

But Gibson is only human as we all are, and grappling with personal demons like alcohol and not taking them as seriously as one should is no laughing matter, just like with Kennedy's recent struggle and with Cheney's hunting accident. And I think it is shameful how the mass media is treating him.

I still suspect that Gibson has recently been struggling with something beyond just booze itself that may have encouraged him to say what he said over the weekend. But whatever the case, I have sincere concern for him, and believe he should and deserves to be forgiven.

Sinead O'Connor's Pope remark, which I didn't enjoy, doesn't change the fact that I still see her as a most passionate, talented vocalist. Lindsay Lohan partying a little too much than she should doesn't change the fact that I still see her as a talented young woman who has potential to be a great actress. And this event, as much as I don't enjoy it, doesn't change the fact that I have and will always enjoy his acting contributions to the world.

What's most tragic here is that the mass media has seemed to decide that kicking Mel Gibson while he's down is far more important than focusing on the humanitarian crises that are Israel, Lebanon, the Palestinian Authority and Sudan. And that's what disgusts me most of all here.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton

"If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other"

Mother Teresa

kif kif
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140 posted 08-04-2006 03:30 AM       View Profile for kif kif   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for kif kif

Sorry, it wasn't much of a profanity...more a body part-just call me continental.

On the subject, Gibson spouted this drunkenly, World-Wide, and at a time when relations between religions are delicate, to say the least. Responsibility comes with fame, because people listen. Of course, through the ages, famous people have been criminalised, or charged...I for one don't believe Oscar Wilde should have been criminalised, or Socrates...yet back then, it was a political manouvere to sully their name, resulting in social vilification (because they were revolutionary, and had Ideas). I don't think this applies to Gibson, he's just a stupid, drunken actor who has no business spouting anything World-Wide but lines from his films, and charity requests. If he want's to get political, he shold join a discussion group...and keep his fame away from his personal opinions.

I agree, if it wasn't for the media following them about, we'd not know, but do you really like the idea of paying to see films acted and directed by racists, sexists and bigots?

He'll be running for office soon, just like that other twerp.
LoveBug
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141 posted 08-05-2006 01:33 AM       View Profile for LoveBug   Email LoveBug   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LoveBug

"I agree, if it wasn't for the media following them about, we'd not know, but do you really like the idea of paying to see films acted and directed by racists, sexists and bigots?"

Well, then you're limiting yourself to very few works of art. Unfortunately, many people have feelings against some kind of group. It's a dark side to human nature, but it exists. Look at Gone With the Wind and how it portrayed African Americans. Most people at the time of the book's publication and the movie's release didn't think twice, but we see something very different when we look at it today. I'm not condoning anything like this, but like Brian said about Chaucer, it doesn't mean we should ban anything good these people created because they personally do bad things. If you think this, condemn Kennedy's resolution of the missile crisis beacuse he committed adultery. Condemn America's founding because Jefferson, Washingtion, and almost all of the founding fathers, because they kept slaves. Condemn the New Testament beacuse Paul facilitated murder. Condemn Roman achievements because Ceasar beacuse he slept with men, women, young boys.. this list could go on forever.  

Also, Alcoholics are not.. whatever profanity was edited out. Alcoholics are sick people who need help, and I hope this occurance makes Mr. Gibson get help. He has a lot of talent and he might do even better work once he gets help for his affliction.

Music pours over the sense
And in a funny way
Music sees more than I..it remembers better...
I have forgotten all the rest-Anne Sexton

Essorant
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142 posted 08-05-2006 02:11 AM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

I agree.  An artwork should be judged by the virtues that are in the artwork itself, not by the vices that the author may have.  
rhia_5779
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143 posted 08-05-2006 03:30 AM       View Profile for rhia_5779   Email rhia_5779   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rhia_5779

i think kinda recently they found some part of the bible that had claim that jesus asked judas to betray him or something like that.
LeeJ
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144 posted 08-09-2006 07:39 AM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

sheesh, I didn't know this thread was going on the matter of Gibson's outburst.  

Karen, Sunshine & Ess I totally agree with you all...adding, I'm backing Gibson on this and hope this all backfires, not only making him bigger, but a better person as well...I believe he has a lot to offer to society.

Ali, I liked your comment, and taking it further, I'd just like to say, perhaps he was discussing the current war that night?...and the fear of what is happening to innocent people escalated into anger...it surely affects all of us without drinking?  

Drink does perhaps bring out truth...but is it really how the man feels or was he venting a frustration and saddness at what is going on?

Ask, "why do people get angry?"...because they're hurting, sad & frustrated...which escalates into anger because we cannot control a situation or people the way we would like to.

A lot of bad stuff is presently happening...and I believe if he hadn't been under the influence, it might have been different, who knows, but I don't believe insulting an entire race is what he meant to do.  Think about 9-11, and about how people were feeling and saying then, probably the same thing.  

He did offer a public apology, which to me is saying a lot.

What bothers me most about this, is the way it's escalated into something that to me, is the reason wars start...over such silly disagreements and outbursts, and people get killed over this stuff?

Not to mention...I belive there is much more here then meets the eye...who is pressuring the media, the arresting officers, to make such a big what to do about it all, is the question I have to ask myself?  

Noah, I like your mind...

oh, and please don't misunderstand, I think driving while drinking is foolish and that Mr. Gibson should have to serve what ever consequence flows from that choice.  



  

[This message has been edited by LeeJ (08-11-2006 08:45 AM).]

 
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