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Passions in Poetry

Mel Gibson's Passion of the Christ

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LoveBug
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25 posted 02-26-2004 10:21 PM       View Profile for LoveBug   Email LoveBug   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LoveBug

Why would I use a meaningless term?

LoveBug
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26 posted 02-26-2004 10:24 PM       View Profile for LoveBug   Email LoveBug   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LoveBug

http://www.persecution.org/

Oh, make me Thine forever
And should I fainting be
Lord, let me never ever
Outlive my love for Thee

Denise
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27 posted 02-26-2004 10:50 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Thanks for indulging my curiosity and clearing that up for me, Berengar. I didn't see it from that perspective since I didn't see the high-priests in that light. I guess I just always looked at them as deeply religious people with deeply held beliefs who acted out of those beliefs. But yes, I guess they could be seen as political and religious scoundrels just like we see abounding in today's society.

And of course, races can't persecute. People within races persecute, which is what I am sure LoveBug meant. And, of course persecution happens against all kinds of people, not just Christians, but in some parts of the world it is mostly persecution of Christians that takes place, and it shouldn't surprise us because Christ said that we would be persecuted for his name's sake. But in a broader sense I believe any persecution of anybody, anywhere, is also persecution of Christ since he died for everybody.
berengar
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28 posted 02-26-2004 10:50 PM       View Profile for berengar   Email berengar   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for berengar

LoveBug

My point is not to deny that Christianity has, and is in many places, persecuted as a creed, nor is it to deny that racism has its own dynamic of persecution.  What I disagree with (and maybe I'm misunderstanding you) is your statement that RACES (and creeds) persecute Christianity.  Would you mind explaining this?
Lol
berengar
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29 posted 02-26-2004 10:53 PM       View Profile for berengar   Email berengar   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for berengar

Denise

Never saw your most recent posting, hence the repitition.  Sorry.
berengar
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30 posted 02-26-2004 10:58 PM       View Profile for berengar   Email berengar   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for berengar

Denise

While I'm on a roll...
Do you see persecution as something to be endured/expected in defence of a very important principal, or as something virtuous in itself??  Abiding by Christ's lifestyle entails persecution (I agree),and, I would argue, is thereby bound up with the first form. I'd like to hear your thoughts on this.

Denise
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31 posted 02-26-2004 11:09 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

No, I don't see it as something virtuous in and of itself. I just see it as a reality. But compared with other areas of the world, we don't have it nearly as bad, at least not yet, anyway. And just like any other hardship in life, it can make us more virtuous, if we let it.
LoveBug
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32 posted 02-27-2004 12:11 AM       View Profile for LoveBug   Email LoveBug   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LoveBug

Sorry if I wasn't clear...


I'm just trying to say that many different types of people persecute Christians, but it isn't fair to say that one or all of these races should have some kind of 'blame' because some of them do bad things.

So if people want to say things like "Jews killed Jesus", well, many different types of people kill Christians today, so do you want to blame... well, every race for something like that? No.

Oh, make me Thine forever
And should I fainting be
Lord, let me never ever
Outlive my love for Thee

LoveBug
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33 posted 02-27-2004 12:12 AM       View Profile for LoveBug   Email LoveBug   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LoveBug

And just a side remark about persecution:

Christ said that Christians would be persecuted.. "If they hate me they will hate you also".."You are not of this world so the world will hate you", esc.. so even though being persecuted doesn't mean you are right, Christians shouldn't be surprised when it happens to them.

Oh, make me Thine forever
And should I fainting be
Lord, let me never ever
Outlive my love for Thee

Ringo
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34 posted 02-27-2004 12:19 AM       View Profile for Ringo   Email Ringo   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Ringo

I saw the movie tonight, and figured that I would put in my couple of pennies.

Very few movies, in my opinion, actually live up to the hype that is made in the press. This one more than lived up to it's reputation. When I first wal;ked into the theater, I did so with the intention of NOT geting caught up in uit and watching it to judge it for accuracy (or my version of it), and for the anti-semetic content. I also wanted to see what would set this apart from every other Christ movie I had ever watched, and how Mel was going to keep my interest while using long dead languages.

That lasted about 15 minutes. After that, I became engrossed in the movie itself. And after about a half an hour, I forgot that it was in Aramaic and Latin with subtext. As the movie went on, I got pulled more and more into the film, until I was finally released shortly after the credits started rolling.

While I was "involved" in the film, I was able to remain just disconnected enough to occasionally look around me and see what was going on. There weer a few things that I noticed that sets this experience far apart from any of the others I have had:
In any movie there are people moving and shuffling around in their seats... I saw NONE of that during this film.
Only 2 or 3 people out of a packed house left during the film... as opposed to a constant stream.
After the movie was over, and the credits started to roll, NO ONE moved... It took almost 15 or 20 seconds for the first viewer to leave their seat. And then it wasn't the mass exodus that usually happens, and people kept looking back at the screen on their way out.
Outside, as people were using the facilities, NO ONE was talking.
Same thing in the hall as people were waiting for their wives/husbands/whomever.

As for LR's question... I don't know if it would change anyone's mind that didn't already believe... I do know that it severly impacted the folks that saw it tonight, and I highly recommend it to everyone that is 15 or older.

Never be afraid to try something new. Remember that a lone amateur
built the Ark. A large group of professionals built the Titanic.

Opeth
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35 posted 02-27-2004 10:47 AM       View Profile for Opeth   Email Opeth   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Opeth

shave-and-a-hair-cut.............

I hope everyone has a nice weekend or whatever type of weekend you want to have!

Cpat Hair
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36 posted 02-27-2004 11:20 AM       View Profile for Cpat Hair   Email Cpat Hair   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Cpat Hair

LMAO

Opeth you know you want to get in the middle of it.... you just know you do..

shave and a hair cut... two bits

shave and a hair cut.........

shave and a hair cut........



LoveBug
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37 posted 02-27-2004 04:11 PM       View Profile for LoveBug   Email LoveBug   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LoveBug

I just got back from the theatre..

Words can't express how it was. I feel it was a beautiful and truthful potrayal of the agony that Christ went through because of my sins. It was hard to watch but I almost felt guilty to turn away... He had to do it, I need to see it.

Personally... I think it makes Romans out to be much worse than Jews, if you want to look at it that way. I didn't even think of it that way until the ride home... while the movie shows Jewish people weeping over His death, the Roman soldiers take joy in seeing His pain. Strange that nobody finds that offensive... I didn't find it offensive, although I'm part Italian, because thats how it was. Thats what happened. Its bad but... Jesus died for them too.

I recommend this to everyone...

Oh, make me Thine forever
And should I fainting be
Lord, let me never ever
Outlive my love for Thee

berengar
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38 posted 02-27-2004 05:55 PM       View Profile for berengar   Email berengar   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for berengar

Opeth

There is much sound and fury signifying nothing from some quarters...
Bring it on ( and yes, I know what I'm asking for).
We are all red blooded men and women...
Cpat Hair
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39 posted 02-27-2004 06:12 PM       View Profile for Cpat Hair   Email Cpat Hair   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Cpat Hair

LOL... would seem Berenger that the chip and challenge come with an ache...

I always find a bit of ointment soothes those aches... and usually helps avoid stiffness later..

Balladeer
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40 posted 02-27-2004 06:27 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Cpat...far be it from me to correct you - but I think you're four bits short
Cpat Hair
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41 posted 02-27-2004 06:41 PM       View Profile for Cpat Hair   Email Cpat Hair   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Cpat Hair

lmao..

deer.. only four bits? by golly I think you are right.... now that is a shame... I'm even forgetting to remember the old ditties...  I do stand corrected sir.. and thank you...

usually people say I'm about half a bubble shy... so to be only off four bits must be an improvement

berengar
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42 posted 02-27-2004 06:53 PM       View Profile for berengar   Email berengar   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for berengar

Ron

Ache, Sir??
Who cares, when one is addicted to endorphins??
Lol
Ron
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43 posted 02-27-2004 09:31 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

Frivolity and banality have a place, but that place usually isn't in the middle of someone else's conversation. Off-topic comments deserve their own thread.
LoveBug
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44 posted 02-27-2004 11:13 PM       View Profile for LoveBug   Email LoveBug   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LoveBug

Gotta agree...
Goldenrose
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45 posted 02-28-2004 08:04 AM       View Profile for Goldenrose   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Goldenrose

As i understand (so dont shoot the messenger here) from many american film reviewers of the major papers..the film is supposed to be about the love of Christ.(.Mr Gibson himself has said that is what he is trying to get across)..but according to the paper reviewers, he has patently failed...the film is almost bloody and gory in the extreme....they all agree that it is a film that will leave people shocked rather than calmed....

From the jewish point of view i understand that they are appalled by it..and at least several scenes needed to be cut from it  for fear of anti-semitism..otherwise it would not have been put out...one of the scenes involved a jewish woman saying...''we all have his blood on our hands''..implying that the jews were directly responsible for his death....there are other areas still in the film where a council of jewish leaders are portrayed as condeming him to crusifixion....while strangely the film portrays Pilate as a weak roman leader  ..easily dominated who is weak of mind.

The jews argue that Pilate and ONLY Pilate had the orthority and jurisdiction to execute Jesus... the Jews could not, so on this analogy the whole basis of the film in the first place is based on a LIE... i understand that even the timing of it's release was perfect..Ash Wednesday....this film is supposed to be a non Hollywood film....and yet in true Hollywood style Pewter crosses on leather neck cords are for sale for around $13...so even though $30 milllion was personally put in by Mr Gibson..he is still making money from the biggest selling name...a man who died for all of us and is now being used for the shamefull act of making money..so it is a lie..inacurate...blood thirsty..money making film...not at all what has been portrayed...

As for Mr Gibson....and in particular his father he should be shamed for all the world to see and never work in films again ...when his father states that the jews were never murdered in the holocaust..and that they just moved to places like New York, Sydney and Melborne....what about the Polsih ghetto's...what about when the victorous liberating forces of the allies namely Britain, America and Russia went into the occupied areas and found all of the walking skeletons,the vast burial grounds, the montains of corpses, glasses, shoes, etc..these did not exist did they..they are figments of the imagination..of the brave allied soldiers that died trying to save the jewish people from their horrors....

You can rest assured that if Mr Gibson's father takes this view then his son will almost certainly take it..after all he doesnt even recognise the second vatican council and he is supposed to be Catholic...albeit extreme right wing Catholic...

Anybody who goes to watch this film will be agreeing with the anti-sematic views of its madman creator and director and also denying that the holocaust never happended...and if you do you might as well agree with the extreme rantings and portrayals that Mr Gibson Snr and Jnr subscribe to...

Goldenrose.


''Each soul is potentialy divine..the goal is to manifest that divinity''
LoveBug
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46 posted 02-28-2004 09:48 AM       View Profile for LoveBug   Email LoveBug   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LoveBug

You know, I really don't see what Mel Gibson's father has to do with anything. I disagree with my parents on MANY MANY things. Just because they are my parents doesn't mean that I agree with them or think they are right.

Goldenrose, you are just making an assumption baised on what you have read from others who went into this film with their minds set on finding something wrong. If you bothered to see the movie for yourself instead on going on hear-say, you would be in a better position to talk.

The whole 'his blood is on your hands' speech was edited out.

As I said in a previous post that you obviously didn't bother to read before you went on your tirade, many Jews are shown with compassion for Christ. I'll say it again, the ones with the unflattering potrayal are the Romans. Pilate would rather keep his position in power than to save an innocent man, and the solders are merciless in beating Him, and take joy in His pain. I am part italian, but you don't see me freaking out about that. Why, you ask? Because thats how those people behaved. I don't assume to think that Mel Gibson is passing judgement on a particular race in presenting the truth.

Also, it WAS the reason they presented Christ to the Romans... Jews didn't crucify. It isn't a lie.

About the movie being a 'gorefest'. If you saw the movie you'd see the obvious references to love, and to WHY Christ did this for us. He didn't have to, He gave Himself as a living sacrifice to save us all because he loves us. Personally, I'm glad it was as gory as it was. I think many Christians need a wake up call. This is the price of sin, God loved you that much. We need this in our watered down religion today. This is the real deal. This is real love.

Again, if you bother to see the movie, you may change your mind... then again, I have the feeling that you, like the columnists you have so faithfully read and quoted, will go in dead set on seeing something wrong, so set on it that you create it...

Oh, make me Thine forever
And should I fainting be
Lord, let me never ever
Outlive my love for Thee

Opeth
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47 posted 02-28-2004 10:02 AM       View Profile for Opeth   Email Opeth   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Opeth

This movie is what it is and that is it - the final hours in the life of Christ as Mr. Gibson understands it to be so.  

Everthing else about what the movie is or is not, including how and why it came to be, is a matter of what people other than Gibson believe...

People will see it.
People will not see it.
People will be offended by it.
People will obtain a stronger faith from it.
People will find it to be nothing but a glorification of violence.
People will enjoy it.
People will hate it.
People will neither hate nor enjoy it.

~ The controversy about this film has most definitely helped its box office draw.

~ Recently, I happened to watch the movie Panic yet one more time. The movie portrays the ultimate sacrifice - a father giving up both his and his father's life, so the life of his son could be saved... and one could argue, spiritually as well as physically.
Goldenrose
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48 posted 02-28-2004 10:13 AM       View Profile for Goldenrose   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Goldenrose

i was not''going on a tirade''.i was merely saying what others have said about the film....going on tirades was what i have done in the past and i do not want to go down that path again...my message is of love  now....this film was bound to present some contoversial talk with it's subject...you know what they always say the ''taboo'' subjects are...religion and politics...

But surely you must feel appalled at a movie about Jesus Christ using his name and suffering to make money...?

I did not reply to this thread for something to do..i replied beacuse you need some balence in this..i was merely telling you what New York Times...Washington Post was saying after they had been to see the movie..personally i find ANY film made about Jesus from what ever stage in history exploiting the word of jesus..no matter who made be it Charlton Heston....or Martin Scorcese...they all made money from Jesus and i think that is wrong....maybe if they took just what it cost to make the film..and any administration costs... and gave the money to the needy in say..Africa..then i wlll go and watch it... but you know where the money will go..but i am not going to a film and adding to the already high levels of exploitation of religion....all of the church leaders that sit in their ivory towers should sell everthing they have got and give it to the sick, suffering and dying..but do they?..i see no evidence of it...

If Jesus was to revist this world next week..the first thing he would say  to all of the priests and holymen is..''sell everything you have got..and give it to the needy...stop living like kings..while fellow human beings starve and suffer..didnt he turn the money lenders tables over in the temple?...

Religion and money making has gone on long enough....give the money to the truly suffering..because there isnt one person that will tell you that Jesus would advocate such avarice....

But like i said this is just my own slant on things...i do not want to upset anybody by my thoughts....peace, love and understanding is what i subscribe to....

Peace to everybody....

Goldenrose.

''Each soul is potentialy divine..the goal is to manifest that divinity''

Opeth
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49 posted 02-28-2004 10:17 AM       View Profile for Opeth   Email Opeth   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Opeth

To whom were those questions directed to?

"If this grand panorama before me is what you call God...then God is not dead."

 
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