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Will Bush be re-elected?

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2writeis2be
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Live in London, but from TX


0 posted 01-13-2004 07:04 AM       View Profile for 2writeis2be   Email 2writeis2be   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for 2writeis2be

Well since this is the forum for discussing things and moaning...all that fun stuff...thought I'd see people's opinions on Bush. They say never discuss politics or religion but why not? It's fun to see what people think--regarless if it's good or bad.

I didn't think Bush would be re-elected until I heard about how he's recently tried to befriend the latino majority by allowing them to retain visas to work in the US, instead of them using other options to come over illegally. I think this was a staged effort to gain more votes come election time, and I think it might just work (though I hope it doesn't). Because now all the stuff about the war in Iraq is being brought up--and anti-Bush activists intend to slaughter him with all the truth about this war being totally unjust --so in turn, he is trying to save his butt by getting the mexicans on his side. What do u think and do u think he'll be re-elected? Are u for or against him? And do u think this time he'll be elected fairly or will he need his brother to get him out of the crap again?

~~Lisa

Ringo
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1 posted 01-13-2004 08:56 AM       View Profile for Ringo   Email Ringo   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Ringo

Because now all the stuff about the war in Iraq is being brought up--and anti-Bush activists intend to slaughter him with all the truth about this war being totally unjust

Just what is the truth??? What is your truth might not be my truth, ot the truth of anyone else. Your truth and my truth certainly isn't the truth of the fighting men and women from many nations that are over there now, and that were there before. So, please explain to me this concept of truth. Because I am not quite sure that you or I or anyone else on this board are qualified to determine what the truth is without ALL of the facts, and not just the rantings of some ultra-liberal bleeding hearts, or of the ultra-conservative side of the fence. And neither you, nor I, nor anyone else you might quote was there for the decision making process, and I know for positive that none of the "Truth" bearers would ever lower themselves to actually go into harms way when they can sit on the outside and snipe at the decision-makers from their perches that are protected by the very people that they are telling the "truth" about.
And what was injust about it? Was it injust to get Saddam Hussein out of power? Was it unjust to attempt to bring a better life to the people of Iraq? Was it un-just to attempt to stop the mass killings of a suppressive regime, who built and maintained 7 palaces while complaining that his people were starving? Obviously the money was there... And now the Danish military has found, and the British military has confirmed, weapons with blister agent (a chemical munition that causes very severe and painful blisters). Is it unjust to rid the country of those, especially since the deposed dictator has used them against his own people? Is it unjust to stop the ritual raping, torture and killing of anyone who opposed the regime? I apologize, maybe I am not clear on what is just.

I think this was a staged effort to gain more votes come election time

Yes, it probably was partially to gain votes in November... however, it is also going to increase the wages that these illegal immigrants can make, because now they will be registered, and not have to work in the sweat shops where they have been until now. It is also going to increase the amount of tax revinue that the US makes.


And do u think this time he'll be elected fairly or will he need his brother to get him out of the crap again?


Judges?? BUZZ... thank you for playing. It was actually the Supreme Court that upheld the election. and since you brought it up, EVERY major US new source reported during the last election taht Florida Governor Jeb Bush STAYED OUT of the entire process. Because of the sensitivity of the issue, and his brother being involved... Gov. Bush did nothing to help, or impede either candidate. And since you asked, if Vice President Gore would have won just one more major state, then Florida wouldn't have counted. and if Governor Bush (the candidate) would have won Pennsylvania, then Florida wouldn't have mattered at all...

Back to the war for just a second. You are talking about BUSH and how the war is unjust and everything of that nature... well, there is one thing you are forgetting... it ISN'T president Bush's war exclusively. In case you have missed the news broadcasts, 53 loyal British subjects have lost their lives to date in the Middle East. As have 19 Italians, 10 Spanish, 5 Bulgarians,2 Ukaranians, 2 Thai, 1 Danish, and 1 Polish soldier. So, you are putting the price of death of ALL of those different nationalities on the head on one man. That is giving him more power than is his due. I don't recall anything in the news about American servicemen coming over to your country and holding PM Blaire's family hostage until he committed troops. As the leader of his nation he did that of his own free will.. as did the others listed, and the Australians, and a host of other countries. So, while you are listing all of the evils that my president has committed, take a moment to include- publicly- those of your Prime Minister.

I think it might just work (though I hope it doesn't).

And, respectfully, I ask you why it would be of your concern whether President Bush is re-elected again, or not? That is actually no more a matter for British subjects to concern themsleves with than the re-election of the Labour party, and by default, PM Blaire is the concern of any American citizen. And with the truth coming out that "Bonny Prince Charlie" killing his wife, there would be more pressing matters for you to concern yourself with.
Then again, these are just my thoughts.



Cause in my dreams it's always there
The evil face that twists my mind
And brings me to despair.

[This message has been edited by Ringo (01-13-2004 09:35 AM).]

Michelle_loves_Mike
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2 posted 01-13-2004 10:42 AM       View Profile for Michelle_loves_Mike   Email Michelle_loves_Mike   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Michelle_loves_Mike

I have to agree with Ringo on at least one point,,,,,,the "truth" is something seen differently by all......

Funny part is,,,,,,no matter who takes over the big chair,,,,faults,,,both real and imagined,,,will be picked apart...

Seems no matter what the country,,which ruler,,,,,what have you,,,,if not attacked by their own,,,,they will always be judged and found short.

We do need to look at the possitives that all leaders have given,,,,,insane dictators not included,,,,look at the facts,,,not media hype,,,,

Will he be re-elected? Most likely,,,,we tend to do so,,,,,,its easier that way....letter heads need not be changed,,,,etc,,,,
take care
Michelle

I wish all could find the true happiness I have found,,in the eyes of Mike

Balladeer
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3 posted 01-13-2004 10:58 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Don't bother, Ringo. We gone over this before with our friends from across the sea. Somehow it seems so much easier to badmouth another country's leaders than one's own....they seem to be very eager to do so.

Interesting how easy it is to sit thousands of miles away and piece one's own version of the truth together by gathering newspaper headlines. Florida elections? Bush's brother? Illegal aliens? Points have a little more validity when one has at least some kind of idea what one is speaking of, instead of just grabbing magazines and newspapers and treating them as gospel, repeating them with great indignation. There's nothing wrong with the title of the thread...it's a valid question. To go off of it on a smear campaign against another country's president is a sad way to attempt to have an intelligent conversation.
Marge Tindal
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4 posted 01-13-2004 11:11 AM       View Profile for Marge Tindal   Email Marge Tindal   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Marge Tindal's Home Page   View IP for Marge Tindal

Addressing the titled question -

I believe he will~

*Huglets*
~*Marge*~

~*When the heart grieves over what it has lost,
the spirit rejoices over what it has left.
- Sufi epigram
         noles1@totcon.com

Mistletoe Angel
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5 posted 01-13-2004 03:43 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel



With plenty of time still before the election, who can say! But what I can tell you is that I am fiercely opposing Bush and I am against him.



I have my own creed, my own philosophy of an ideal ruler, and one who rules with the thirst for war, manipulations and hatred never gets my re-election bid. It is rather clear now that the whole Iraq war was commenced out of hatred and revenge. But my opposition of Bush also goes far beyond the war. It also goes to the generality of his rule, mocking the constitution, the rights of our people, his lobbyist government, and his usurping of our land behind closed doors.



I'll let you vote as you wish, but I intend to use every fiber of my being without the use of blasphemy and violence to hope and help to knock him out of office in November.

Love,
Noah Eaton


"You'll find something that's enough to keep you
But if the bright lights don't receive you
You should turn yourself around and come back home" MB20
Ringo
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6 posted 01-13-2004 05:35 PM       View Profile for Ringo   Email Ringo   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Ringo

Noah- As we have discussed several times, we are on different sides of this issue. And while I will respectfully give you the right to have your viewpoint, I do have a few questions to ask of you in this matter.

It is rather clear now that the whole Iraq war was commenced out of hatred and revenge

Could you explain this. I don't see this as the entire truth (and I refer to my easrlier post about the "truth"). While I am willing to accept that planning for the Iraqi campaign was started before the September 11 attacks, and while it is possible that Pres Geo I was in the Junior Bush's thoughts, President Clinton was ALSO in favor of the regime being toppled, and knew, and stated for the record during his time in the "Big Chair" (as Michelle put it), that Saddam needed to be ejected in order for peace to ever occur in the region. The only real difference between the two administrations, in my view, is that that current one acted upon their beliefs. If former President Clinton had gone to war, would you have had the same beliefs about this being done out of hatred and revenge, or would your viewpoint have shifted to supporting the decisions of a liberal Democrat president?

But my opposition of Bush also goes far beyond the war. It also goes to the generality of his rule, mocking the constitution, the rights of our people, his lobbyist government,

Again, I ask what your opposition is. before 9/11, everyone seemed to be against President Bush (again, my opinion) because he had no clear cut domestic policy, and he was spending too much of his time with foreign policy. I will admit that I was slightly disappointed with him in the beginning of his term, however, once the attacks came, he seemed to step up to the plate and handle the situation as best as he could.
In this matter,he is to be compared to the sainted FDR, who was generally reviled as a weak president during the first year of his first term. Then (only 2 months longer than GWB) at the end of his first year, the US was the victim of a terrorist attack on the other side of the country. 50 years later, FDR is considered by most to be one of our greatest presidents because of his strength of heart and his willingness to stand up for his convictions. What people tend to forget is that during his first 2 years in office, he took our country to war (which was NOT popluar, contrary to popular opinion) allowed American citizens to be detained against their will for extreme amounts of time (the Japanese Interrment Camps), restricted the movement of American Citizens, had people arrested for not observing blackout conditions, unilaterally imposing curfews... and many other "sins" that stomped on the rights of American citizens.
Shortly after his inaguration, FDR sent a bill to Congress attempting to re-structure the Supreme Court, and did so because the Supreme Court declared many of his New Deal offerings to be unconstitutional.
While I am NOT suggesting that President Bush, Jr and FDR are both to be idolized. In fact, I feel that you are doing your civic duty to question your leaders. I am only asking that you treat all leaders fairly. President Bush is being vilified for "ignoring the Constitution, and infringing on the people's rights, and FDR is now being hailed as one of the greatest presidents ever... and he did the same thing in the same situation.
President Clinton, whom I am guessing you supported with your entire being, had more contraversies and scandals during his first 3 years than either the President Bush prior, or after, yet he is revered by the Democratic left.
One last question that I hope you take some time to think about seriously, and then answer as truthfully as you can (there's that word again):
What if Vice President Gore had, in fact, been in the seat of power when 9/11 hit? Would he have been able to protect the citizens of his country without stepping on a few rights? Would ANY of this have been significantly different?

Cause in my dreams it's always there
The evil face that twists my mind
And brings me to despair.

2writeis2be
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Live in London, but from TX


7 posted 01-13-2004 06:13 PM       View Profile for 2writeis2be   Email 2writeis2be   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for 2writeis2be

"With plenty of time still before the election, who can say! But what I can tell you is that I am fiercely opposing Bush and I am against him."

Mistletoe Angel-- well as an american myself, even though 1 or 2 people in here automatically assumed I'm british just because I reside in England, I am with you on this one. Sticking to my original post and saying do away with Bush. He has caused enough trouble during his term and his time should be up. It's just a real shame more people haven't opened their eyes to the dishevelled world he has created since he's resided in office.
RSWells
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8 posted 01-13-2004 06:21 PM       View Profile for RSWells   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for RSWells

No

He's dishonest


"you can fool some of the people all of the time ................
2writeis2be
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9 posted 01-13-2004 06:37 PM       View Profile for 2writeis2be   Email 2writeis2be   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for 2writeis2be

"Don't bother, Ringo. We gone over this before with our friends from across the sea. Somehow it seems so much easier to badmouth another country's leaders than one's own....they seem to be very eager to do so.

Interesting how easy it is to sit thousands of miles away and piece one's own version of the truth together by gathering newspaper headlines. Florida elections? Bush's brother? Illegal aliens?"

First off, I'm american like I just mentioned in the previous post...born and bred in Austin,Texas... lived there all my life apart fm the last 2 years. I am entitled to say what I think of the president and his actions concerning the US (of which I am a citizen). And I have first hand knowledge of illegal immigrants who flood into texas fm mexico on a daily basis. And to give these people now legal status after commiting a criminal act in the first place makes a mockery of all  the people who come to the US through the official channels and have to wait their turn. Although alot of immigrants coming into the US are valuable, there are an awful lot that are not. Bush now has given these people the right to stay in the US legally which will no doubt see him through the next election w/their votes. Handy aye?  
Ringo
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10 posted 01-13-2004 07:37 PM       View Profile for Ringo   Email Ringo   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Ringo

Lisa... as you are an American citizen, I will formally and in public apologize for making the presumtion that you were not. I still hold my views, and am able to respect your right to have yours.
I ahve also had to deal with the illegal immigrant situation. When I was stationed in Yuma, we did some work with the border patrol, and as an EMT, we did a few runs on the illegals that attempted to jump the border.
One thing I find amusing is that people who jump on a floating pick-up truck and make it to the shores are immediately considered for asylum because they are leaving their country in which they are being  repressed and they are attempting a better way of life... and most people are fine with that... however, if someone decides to cut a hole in the fence and run over 20 miles of desert sand, then they are to be immediately sent home because they didn't go through channels...
As an American serviceman living in Arizona, I spent much of my off-time as far away from the base as possible... and that included more of Mexico than not. I got to meet the indigenous people, and the "real" Mexicans that didn't rely on American dollars for their living... I also got to meet some of the most corrupt people in the world. Police officers who shot the "culprit" for doing nothing more than questioning a false arrest... Mexican citizens being arrested for walking in the wrong part of town. Town officials who make muchos dineros in pay-offs and illegal actions, and yet they allow their citizens to live in absolute squalor. Eight year olds selling themselves on the streets to provide for their families. And these didn't just take place in the border towns. In Cuba, you have the national government supressing the populace... in Mexico, it's the local government, and the national government turns a blind eye,and a deaf ear... I don't really see the difference between the two, yet one stays with our blessing, and the other gets sent home in shackles...
Just my thoughts

Cause in my dreams it's always there
The evil face that twists my mind
And brings me to despair.

Balladeer
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11 posted 01-13-2004 08:54 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Lisa, I will join Ringo in apologizing for the assumption you were English. If you had seen some of the earlier threads we have had here originating over there perhaps you would understand

However, my response stays the same. As Ringo pointed out, Jeb Bush had absolutely nothing to do with the Florida elections. He ws smart enough to run the other way, know that would be people saying he used some influence....which, in retrospect, was wasted effort on his part since you have said it anyway. In recounts held BY THE DEMOCRATS the results came out the same. Of course that did not reach the front page so you wouldn't know about that. If Gore had simply carried his own state, he would have won the election. Unfortunately for him, his own state knows him better than most. So for you to make the statement about his brother helping him out of the crap simply exposes yourself to the fact that your comments are nothing but personal rants with no basis in fact....and everyone is entitled to personal rants. Look at my friend Noah...LOL! What makes me smile about his bitterness is that he hates dishonesty and disrespect in the presidency and yet he thought Clinton was a fine president - Clinton, the documented biggest liar and disrespector of the office in the history of the country! There has to be humor in that somewhere.

Will Bush be re-elected? I hope so - not necessarily because he is such an outstanding man but more so because he is far and above any of the idiots that are trying to run against him. As is in many elections, it's not a vote for the best man but for the least worst. There have been no more 9/11's. The Taliban is not harboring terrorists in Afghanistan. Hussein is not butchering people in Iraq. Many, many countries are hunting down terrorists cells. Terrorists leaders do not havethe freedom to move around. COuntries are initiating peace talks. There seems to be a united stand in the world among many countries to fight terrorism at every level. The economy has gotten back on its feet admirably since 9/11 to the point that in a poll taken last week over 90% of the people polled stated that they were at very least satisfied with their lives and the economy. Vote for Bush? I can't find a reason not to....
Sunshine
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12 posted 01-13-2004 10:01 PM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine

Bush is human.  His integrity to his Wife and Country hold firm.  His allegience to the Flag...firmer still.  Is he put up by his contingency to gain where he can, publicity wise? Of course.  What president hasn't reaped the value of 15 good seconds.

Funny...it truly doesn't seem to matter WHO is president.  The first thing they do that isn't "your" agenda [speaking globally here] and wham!  They're on your "I'm not voting for them!" list.

Anyone here want to try being the President of this Nation - or the Prime Minister, or other highly elected offical who runs a country? ... for a week, or a day?  It takes guts.  Sometimes it takes nothing more than charisma [as we saw in our previous president] to run across our backsides with their "ha ha, can't catch me, I'm the gingerbread man" tactics.

Respect the office, is all I ask.  When they are CAUGHT with their hand in the till [and sheesh, there's a number of them lately...] then follow those rules set up and prosecute accordingly.  

I duly respect everyone's opinions.  That's a given.  But I do have a hard time with people taking a simple headline and without basis, shouting it until it becomes THE headline.  Let's get all the facts in order, line 'em up, and shoot 'em down until they line up faster than we have bullets.  When we run out of bullets, and true facts are still lined up, THEN we have to say...

ok, NOW you've shown me.  So far, no one has really shown me why I shouldn't vote for a man who has done HIS best for the country to date.  The question now becomes, "What have I done thus far, for my country?"  
Brad
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13 posted 01-13-2004 10:27 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Wow, twelve responses so far, and the best pro-Bush stance is,

"Well, it could be worse."

It cracks me up that four years into the Bush administration, somebody is still bringing up Clinton comparisons.

Hey, whatever happened with the antrax scare?
Sunshine
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14 posted 01-13-2004 10:34 PM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine

Brad, dear person...I had "that" scare.  Not fun.

If you want to know about it, I'll pull out the details.
Mistletoe Angel
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15 posted 01-14-2004 12:10 AM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel





Balladeer, perhaps I should clarify to you that I wasn't too thrilled with Clinton either. As you know, I am young and thus haven't seen much of America go by as you. But by what I have seen, Clinton is the president I would select out of those who ruled in the past twenty years if forced to choose, being that every president in the past two decades has been mediocre. But I also saw him as rather dishonest and his lies were consequential to the Democratic Party and to a number of people, so don't go pointing your finger and chuckling away like that, as if accusing me of being a die-hard hypocrite. Besides, though Clinton will always be documented as a liar, and should be, Bush's lies have been far more fatal as they have been spoken not just outside, but underground as well. Did Clinton's lies endanger the lives and lifestyles of countless millions? Surely he disgraced himself and his Democratic colleagues but look behind the closed doors, Bush's lies are tarnishing a vast number of people as we know it. And you call him an outstanding man? Many regular civilian Iraqis are vowing revenge for the carnage upon their country. Al-Qaeda is decentralized, but far less predictable than ever in their harmful motives. Latinos, Jews, a vast number of Europeans, Indians, Koreans, ALL denouncing his actions and calling him "the greatest threat to world peace". There may have been no more 9/11's yet but 9/11 happened to have occurred during Bush's first year in office, despite a previous attempt before, but only showing Bush's failure to make any possible diplomatic act and encourage the continuing determination to harm the lives of our own people and others. The latest information by O'Neill showing that the war on Iraq was brought out of nothing but adulterated, savage hatred, manipulating our people with misleading information thus also making the war unjust, bought out of our own tax dollars which that $87 billion which most people found unnecessary to fund could have gone to public schools and health care benefits, but no. And while the economy has improved, large corporations continue to swallow up our land and earn profit from the war funding, only making them bigger and destroying the lives of traditionalists. Vote for Bush? I can think of a great number of reasons not to, but say what you want! All I know is nothing you say will get me to support a bloodthirstry, arrogant, megalomaniac pirate for office again.

And yes, I fiercely oppose him and do have much bitterness in my tone to him, bu I also recognize he is human, just as beautiful as any of God's creatures. But that is no excuse to the follies he has committed, for if it was, then every president should have served two terms, three or more before Glover Cleveland. Personally, I bet I could run this nation better than President Bush, but I don't want to, as I don't want to be part of those tactics.

Karilea, you make strong points here, but again, like you said, they apply globally. Therefore, you should also be considering YOU have done the best YOU can and I have done the best I can. And if you disagree, well, I think it's a bit unfair to say Bush has done HIS best either.

So, allow me to say this once more. Balladeer, I shall let you go about your biasedness and I shall go about mine. In this polarized nation, both points of view are valid and as you told me, should the time come when the truth comes out and it favors my view, I will point a finger to you and say "There!", as you may do vice-versa. God Bless and may our opinions continue to be shared respectfully.

Brad: LOL! Isn't that so true! It applies to every leader certainly, but that is a pretty weak argument to say "It could be worse!" when in every politician's mind it should be "How can we make it better?". Also, I agree it's outdated to just keep on throwing Clinton in the mess just to counter this argument. Clinton's reign of terror has ended, Clinton is THEN, Bush is NOW. As much as history should be taken account of, it should not interfere with the agenda of tomorrow. Seems most of what I see who argue with my views only beat Clinton like a dead horse, and personally, this is getting quite lame and pointless.

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton



"You'll find something that's enough to keep you
But if the bright lights don't receive you
You should turn yourself around and come back home" MB20
Mistletoe Angel
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16 posted 01-14-2004 12:33 AM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel



Oops, almost forgot about you, Ringo!



As I have already mentioned, I was not thrilled with Clinton either, more than either Bush if I had to pick, but he was also a lousy president, even if the best in recent years since John F. Kennedy or so. I'd say out of the presidents in the last fifty years, Kennedy is the only one I'd consider "great", with Nixon getting "fairly good". Throughout the first term, I did support him, but I witnessed his flaws and because I was a boy then, I was more naive perhaps, nevertheless the disappointments I felt were nothing to the intensity of those I've felt from Bush, which I think can show my stance.

And no, if Clinton four years ago had said just what Bush had said, I would be doing the same thing I did in reaction to Bush, scorning him as a bloodthirsty, arrogant pirate, same with Gore had he won office (which he really did win, but that's another story! ). I am most certainly not a Republican, but I also don't consider myself a "new new Democrat". I am just a regular Democrat who believes the people should decide the fate of their country. Out of all the current Dems running, Edwards is the only one I have a feeling for, but sacrifices must be made and so I intend to support the front-runner, give him a chance, and should he do what Bush or Clinton did, I will simply not re-elect him, and let the next candidate have a chance, and so on, and so on, unless there comes a person who satisfies my ideal creed of a presidental role model and I'll reward him or her with a re-election vote. I can see how Balladeer put me in the hot seat, saying "AHA...well you believe in honesty, yet Clinton was dishonest, what's up with that?" and I agree Clinton was lousy, unlike a number of other leftists, but I stand by my opinions and I am not hypocrite as Balladeer might have intended to believe. However, because in fact the war happened during Bush's term, that must be considered.

Finally, in response to Bush pre-9/11, I also didn't support him off the bat, but less passionately. And I'll be honest with you! When 9/11 happened and Bush for a while was being real supportive, I admired him for that because I felt the world was coming together in the most part and though of course this was tragic and should never had happened would also encourage the world with a lesson to not commit war ever again and to settle our differences through peace and compassion and never again in battle. Frankly, I was really beginning to respect Bush very much, but then, when he swore revenge and war on Afghanisan and Iraq soil, whoa boy, he sure PROVED ME WRONG, and burst that bubble! What could have been a defining moment of reunion and solace in the world rather became a vulcan of war, resentment and white hot rage. Can you consider that moment after 9/11 good handling? I think not. It could have been soooooooooo much better! Bush lost his chance!

Again, know I deeply respect you, dear friend, for speaking your opinions out in a thoughtful way!

Love,
Noah Eaton


"You'll find something that's enough to keep you
But if the bright lights don't receive you
You should turn yourself around and come back home" MB20
Balladeer
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17 posted 01-14-2004 07:38 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

but 9/11 happened to have occurred during Bush's first year in office, despite a previous attempt before, but only showing Bush's failure to make any possible diplomatic act and encourage the continuing determination to harm the lives of our own people and others"

That definitely takes top honors for the most incredible innuendo I have read on this topic. Thanks for the belly laugh!

serenity blaze
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18 posted 01-14-2004 08:06 AM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

I have consulted the tarot, and in so doing, I employed the use of Rider-Waite deck, and chose a simple one card reading--

The Death card in detriment (upside down) reveals:

"The card represents the critical factor for the issue at hand. Death, when reversed: Stagnation or petrifaction. The refusal to let go of the past. Resistance to change because of fear."

This indicates to me that the general mood of the nation is reluctance to anything new at this time due to both unstable world politics and a fluctuating economy.

The witch hath spoken.



(hey? it's as good as any reasoning I've seen yet.)

Mistletoe Angel
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19 posted 01-14-2004 08:15 AM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

You sure find my views quite amusing, don't you, Balladeer?

All I am doing is expressing a point of view (which is quite common) and at least I feel that you are intentionally trying to defame me, first by seeing me as a hypocrite and secondly by calling my widely expressed view as an "innuendo"?

I disagree with much of what you've said, but I'm not laughing. This is no laughing matter. Personally, I've felt hurt by your accusations and think its childish to laugh at me like that. Even if this is The Alley, all I originally intended to do was simply address my stance for the election, as I thought that's what this thread was about, but seeing this turn into a whole different thread, I wanted to add my two cents in a mature manner. I may be here sharing my thoughts, but I am not the big arguing type!

I will be a jester to no one but myself!



Sincerely,
Noah Eaton

"You'll find something that's enough to keep you
But if the bright lights don't receive you
You should turn yourself around and come back home" MB20

Midnitesun
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20 posted 01-14-2004 08:16 AM       View Profile for Midnitesun   Email Midnitesun   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Midnitesun

Are we talking about wishes or what we think might actually happen?
Never mind, most already know I hope for a major change, but don't see much believable freshenss from anyone throwing a hat in the ring. Think I'll vote for Gandalf.
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21 posted 01-14-2004 08:25 AM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Kacy?

After noting the confusion here, I re-formed the question to "Should Bush be re-elected?"

And using the same deck and method, I got this result:

The Star, in detriment reveals:

"The card represents the critical factor for the issue at hand. The Star, when reversed: Lost hopes, doubt and failure. Physical health and mental outlook lost in the outer darkness. Desperation leading to blind faith in false solutions."

So, I have to conclude that the answer is, "prolly not"--as it's unlikely that a viable candidate will be offered as an alternative.

hmmm...interesting. I'd like to add that althought the cards reveal the George W. will certainly be re-elected, he will wish he hadn't.

sighs.
(and sweet Noah? Hugs, you.)
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22 posted 01-14-2004 09:07 AM       View Profile for Opeth   Email Opeth   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Opeth

It is often thought that anyone is entitled to his or her own opinion. I disagree.

A "check engine" light lights up, the driver says, "I wonder what is wrong with my car?" A doctor sitting in the front passenger seat declares, "I think the problem is your tire's air pressure is low." A lawyer sitting in the backseat behind the driver counters, "No, I don't think it is the tires, I believe the problem is that your headlights are inoperative."  The mechanic sitting behind the doctor retorts, "Obviously, there is problem within your engine and is a result of either one or two causes..." He then goes on to describe the possible causes.
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23 posted 01-14-2004 01:23 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Well, Noah, I apologize for making you feel that you have personally been attacked, which was not my attention, but some of the things you say make me smile. What can I say? It's certainly possible that you or another could laugh at what I say....no big deal. I feel confident enough in my convictions that laughter is not going to make me feel tarnished. Hell, half the time I SHOULD be laughed at!

You state that 9/11 happened to have occurred during Bush's first year, accenting "during", almost saying by implication that Bush holds some responsibility for the action. The prudent reaction would be to smile...the other reaction would get me thrown out of Passions!

"same with Gore had he won office (which he really did win, but that's another story! )."

"because in fact the war happened during Bush's term, that must be considered"

"Bush's lies are tarnishing a vast number of people as we know it"

"while the economy has improved, large corporations continue to swallow up our land and earn profit from the war funding, only making them bigger and destroying the lives of traditionalists."

"bloodthirstry, arrogant, megalomaniac pirate "

"Personally, I bet I could run this nation better than President Bush, but I don't want to"

"one who rules with the thirst for war, manipulations and hatred "

" mocking the constitution, the rights of our people, his lobbyist government, and his usurping of our land behind closed doors"

"and personally, this is getting quite lame and pointless."


If you would care to substantiate any of those comments I'll stop smiling....the last one I agree with wholeheartedly.

Peace

Mistletoe Angel
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24 posted 01-14-2004 01:33 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel



It's alright! No hurt feelings now. I do smile over various things you've said too, but that's the same with Ringo, Opeth, Stephanos, many of those who enjoy frequently engaging in discussions. I'm just modest and tend to feel things very deeply.

Top of the noon to you, Balladeer!



Love,
Noah Eaton

"You'll find something that's enough to keep you
But if the bright lights don't receive you
You should turn yourself around and come back home" MB20

 
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