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Passions in Poetry

Will Bush be re-elected?

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Balladeer
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100 posted 01-18-2004 06:08 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Well, Brad, in that case since you are interested then in providing biased material, we can just bring up Limbaigh's newsletter to give examples of how Bush is the greatest president since the great depression.....so what's the point? I didn't see any clear-cut facts and figures in your link. It said jobs were scarce. So? Last Wednesday several of the Wall Street economists stated that it is a cycle that constantly repeats itself. The economy rebounds, production increases and then employment figures increase. They expect a huge jump in employment by April because that's the way it works. Who is accurate? We'll have to see, I guess. It also stated Bush passed a bill prohibiting buying medicine from other countries....oh, really? Well, I must be breaking the law then because I get mine from Canada. Several east coasts cities must be breaking that same law because they purchase their medicines for health care from Canada, too. That story, along with the mayors of those cities, appeared on 60 Minutes not too long ago. Are nuclear power plants in more danger of attack? Sure. Are you saying they would be under less danger under another president? Presenting biased agencies as proof gets us nowhere. I could find oppositely-biased agencies and refute everything they say. So what is gained by that? Health care? Wasn't that the platform Clinton used to get elected 12 years ago..a workable health care plan?  Even put his wife in charge of it....where was it after 8 years of a Democratic administration? Now the Democrats running are promising the same thing....health care and having the audacity to say where is it. In 8 or 16 years they will probably be saying the same thing....same button pushing every election and never results. Taking whatever wrong thing one can find in the world and attributing it to Bush being president is silly. We have a case of mad cow's disease and Democrats jump up and say it's because of Bush policies. They will jump on any excuse or opportunity they can to point a finger at the administration because they are desparate - and they count on periodicals like the Republic to double-talk a way to sell it to the public. Trouble for them right now is that the public's not listening. They've seen the tactics before and Bush's popularity stays high from those same people who are supposedly living in the hard, unbearable, unfair, barely human conditions the Republic is attempting to portray.
Brad
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101 posted 01-18-2004 06:24 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

This is Broder on O'Neil:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A23715-2004Jan16.html

quote:
But the public record shows that Greenspan shared O'Neill's strong belief that the later years of that 10-year tax reduction should be contingent on the achievement of the healthy budget surpluses that were projected when Bush lobbied Congress in 2001 to reduce revenue by $1.6 trillion.

And Greenspan does not dispute that he and O'Neill were meeting privately during the winter and spring of 2001 to counter the arguments Bush heeded from his political staff and from then-economic counselor Larry Lindsey to go for the biggest possible tax cut. O'Neill mourned -- and so, he says, did Greenspan -- when the Senate voted 50-49 against an amendment sponsored by Republican Sen. Olympia Snowe of Maine and Democratic Sen. Evan Bayh of Indiana that would have halted the tax cuts if the budget surplus failed to materialize.

Instead, Bush chose to add more tax cuts in 2002 and 2003, even as the promised surpluses disappeared and the current massive deficits replaced them.

The country will pay a high price for that failure. And if O'Neill is to be believed, the failure resulted largely from the intellectual passivity of the president himself, combined with a policy process that discouraged the airing of competitive views and lacked the kind of rigorous analysis of probable consequences that such vital decisions demanded.

Bush did not have the "hard factual analysis that allows you to make informed judgments about the worth of various proposals, about what you can reasonably expect, about what is known," O'Neill told the author. "You just can't balance the competing ideas of how to govern a country this size without that."

Speaking of a meeting of economic and political advisers, where Bush made the fateful decision to go for yet more tax cuts, O'Neill reminisced: "I think of a meeting like that, with so much at stake. It's like June bugs hopping around on a lake." Considering the source, those are words to weigh carefully in this election year.

Balladeer
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102 posted 01-18-2004 06:31 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Oh, one other thing, Brad...

Help me to explain this about the Republic, if you can. Part of this "proof" you offered contains the following:

Jobs. Jobs are scarce and increasingly insecure. The new jobs that laid-off workers are getting generally don't have the pay or benefits of the ones they lost. Despite the much-advertised economic recovery, Bush will have the worst jobs record of any President since the Great Depression. In addition to the hemorrhaging of manufacturing jobs, high-tech and service jobs are headed overseas too. Bush has not only pushed for more of the same trade accords that helped get us into this hole, but he has failed to address China's mercantilist trade and currency policies, which have led to a staggering $100 billion US trade deficit. Much of the corporate investment that came from the wealthy benefiting from Bush's tax cuts went abroad, not here. Bush's policies are generating more jobs in Shanghai than in Saginaw.


Then, on it's home page, it had this story...

NAFTA at 10
by Jeff Faux



Ten years ago, the North American Free Trade Agreement was sold to the people of the United States, Mexico and Canada as a simple treaty eliminating tariffs on goods crossing the three countries' borders. But NAFTA is much more: It is the constitution of an emerging continental economy that recognizes one citizen--the business corporation. It gives corporations extraordinary protections from government policies that might limit future profits, and extraordinary rights to force the privatization of virtually all civilian public services. Disputes are settled by secret tribunals of experts, many of whom are employed privately as corporate lawyers and consultants. At the same time, NAFTA excludes protections for workers, the environment and the public that are part of the social contract established through long political struggle in each of the countries.


The business-backed politicians who pushed the agreement through the three legislatures promised that NAFTA would generate prosperity that would more than compensate "ordinary" people for its lack of social protections. Foreign investors would make Mexico an economic tiger, turning its poor workers into middle-class consumers who would then buy US and Canadian goods, creating more jobs in the high-wage countries.

But as soon as the ink was dry on NAFTA, US factories began to shift production to maquiladora factories along the border, where the Mexican government assures a docile labor force and virtually no environmental restrictions. The US trade surplus with Mexico quickly turned into a deficit, and since then at least a half-million jobs have been lost, many of them in small towns and rural areas where there are no job alternatives.



hmmmm....NAFTA. Who in the world brought that in?  and it cost the US and Canada half a million jobs? I thought they said Bush did that.

Same old story...ignore Democratic actions - blame it on Republicans when possible. It gets tiring....  


Balladeer
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103 posted 01-18-2004 06:50 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Ah, the Washington Post. Well, you have at least moved one step up from the Republic. Yes, I saw all of O'neill's statements and about "blind men around deaf people" or whatever he said and, of course, there were immediate comtradictory statment from those who attended those meetings...not to be unexpected.

We could banter back and forth forever, bringing up articles, quoting "experts", and doing all kinds of things. Believe me, I am not saying Bush is a great president who never screws up. I've taken exception to many things he has done and he is certainly no polished politician. I do happen to believe he has done many things in an attempt to improve life for Americans and is sincere in his efforts. I don't believe he is on a power kick or doing things for headlines or to be remembered as "the greatest president to have ever lived", as Clinton hoped his legacy would be. He will obviously make more mistakes over the next four years. If you feel that someone else in that office will not make mistakes, then by all means vote for him. If you feel that another person will be more effective than him, vote for him. (I'm still looking for that huge surplus Clinton assured us we had).

So to end this is simple. Those who feel Bush has done a decent job with honest intentions will vote for him. Those who feel that a Democratic opponent will do a better job will vote against him. The American public had a long time to see what the Democrats did in power - that's why they are not in power anymore and were decimated in the congressional and mayorial elections.

Guess we'll find out soon.....
*Belabebeautiful*
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104 posted 05-13-2004 01:11 AM       View Profile for *Belabebeautiful*   Email *Belabebeautiful*   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for *Belabebeautiful*

Hehe!! man I get a kick out of you guys! That was a lot more reading than I had planned to do but I thought it was worth it to come back in and read up on what was posted after me, it made me smile! I stand with my original statement that I hope to god Bush gets re-elected and he has my vote cause, wow, Carey just scares me! but anyways interesting as usual, glad you guys decided to start backing opinion up with fact though, kudos to you!
~Live and Laugh~

The nice thing about being a pesimest is that your either right, or pleasantly surprised.
~Bella~

Toerag
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105 posted 05-13-2004 07:38 AM       View Profile for Toerag   Email Toerag   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Toerag

God bless the U.S.A....and hopefully, more so if Kerry is elected..Bush isn't perfect by any means....he's tried his best, despite popularity, and, he hasn't "stolen" a single drop of Iraqi oil..hmm?...isn't that what the liberals said this was all about?...If you haven't been to war, you don't know much about it....if you have been, and been on the "ground"..having to kill and watch killing and watch inhumanities....(REAL INHUMANITIES, NOT NAKED PRISONERS BEING TOYED WITH....THE ONES THAT BLEW UP YOUR BROTHERS AND INNOCENT CHILDREN AND CIVILIANS IN COWARDLY AMBUSHES), I don't think there's even a "choice" in this election....except President Bush. Kerry has no idea of what's really going on, or, if he does have a "hint"...he sure doesn't know how to handle it.
hush
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106 posted 05-14-2004 10:33 AM       View Profile for hush   Email hush   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for hush

Toerag- doesn't it stand to reason then, that since Bush never went to war (and, in fact, went AWOL) while Kerry fought in Vietnam, that Kerry actually knows more about war than Bush? By your logic, that is?
Toerag
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107 posted 05-14-2004 02:30 PM       View Profile for Toerag   Email Toerag   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Toerag

No Hush, it doesn't, in fact...show me one....just one...documentation of his AWOL?...Just one...in fact, when Kerry went to war, then came back and sided with Jane Fonda..(no not the fake picture, but the others), then condemned so much about the war, and when he has changed his opinion over 136 times, and his thoughts on war, funding of missle defense, funding on military, jobs going overseas with factories moving to Mexico, then his wife was found to have moved 11 Heinz plants to Brazil and Mexico, has changed his "stories" over 145 times in the last six months, his own democratic party has brought him to the table on over 45 different issues...his admitted treatment of prisoners and the enemy and still has the balls to condemn President Bush and his administration on something they had absolutely no control over
Tell me something dear, if you were a manager at any large corporation, and you had 120,000...or hell, say 20 employees working for you, at another location, and one of them did something dastardly, should you resign?...Is it your fault?...Did you have absolute control?....Clinton, the liar, the adulterer, the scam artist, even admitted he was advised that WMD were in Iraq, does that make Bush more guilty of gullibility than Clinton?...Just tell me what has he done that WASN'T in the best interest of all people around the world in the fight against terror....Do you think if we sat on our laurels after 911 and all the other crap that's happened that we would be better off?...Do you think that if we'd stayed out of world war 1 and 2 that the world would be better off?....Just tell me?
Or, are you quoting the erroneous lies by the Boston Globe...the ones that just today, printed their retraction about the headline pics of American Soldiers raping Iraqi female prisoners that they found to be staged and not true...is that the resource they're using for Bush being awol?...The democratic party is abolutely sick that Kerry has been nominated....don't believe old Toerag...I'm nuts...(and that's not erroneous, everyone knows I'm insane...LOL)...read some of my pathetic poetry)....look it up, the internet is full of sites from Democrats that are more ashamed of Kerry running for office then Clinton's tenure in office....but I love ya anyway?.....

[This message has been edited by Toerag (05-14-2004 04:41 PM).]

hush
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108 posted 05-14-2004 05:50 PM       View Profile for hush   Email hush   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for hush

Hey, sorry I didn't mean to get you so stoked up! Honestly, all I know is that I've heard mention of the AWOL from several sources, some very biased and not necessarily reliable (Micheal Moore) and others which are, in my opinion more 'fair and balanced' such as NPR and (i think) Newsweek. Yes, I know those sources are both slightly slanted, but I don't feel they are extremely so. But okay, putting the questionable AWOL aside -it wasn't really the point- I was simply pointing out that the statement 'If you haven't been to war, you don't know much about it....' and the fact that Bush hasn't fought in a war might logically lead to the conclusion that Kerry knows more about war, firsthand. I'm not a huge Kerry advocate or anything... I was just making a point.
Toerag
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Ala bam a


109 posted 05-14-2004 05:57 PM       View Profile for Toerag   Email Toerag   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Toerag

Actually hush, it's a shame the democrats don't have a good candidate....and I was referring to the poster about "going to war"....LOL...actually, the whole situation really sucks, don't ya think?
Ringo
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110 posted 05-14-2004 08:34 PM       View Profile for Ringo   Email Ringo   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Ringo

Before throwing my couple of pennies in on this latest string of thoughts, I have to admit that I voted for President Bush v2.0, and plan on voting for him again. That being said...
To answer the question that started this off... Again, I feel he will be re-elecetd in a very tight race (again). And I think the Democrats are going to sceram about illegalities and falsified balloting (again). And I think that the Democrats will continue to lie to the American public about things that the President has done. Oh, pardon me... they will vehemently tell us the "truth" about how the economy is bad (withhousing starts, housing sales, the consumer Price Index, the Stock market index, consumer confidence and such as that having made a record growth in the past year.), or how the President is sending all of the jobs over-seas (as has been discussed by better than I), or how we are in this war alone (regardless of the citizens of 11 other nations who have lost thier lives in Iraq), or about how we got into this war for his oil friends (even though the price of oil is still sky-rocketing), or about how he has lost more jobs than any other president (even though there have been almost a million jobs created this year... and wasn't it Ross Perot who commented about the "sucking sound" of jobs moving to Mexico in 1996?).

I also believe that should the Democrats somehow pull this out, that the Republicans are going to blame the Democrats for all of the workd's ills. Welcome, my children, to politics as usual.

Let me give you the thoughts of a theoretical madman:
I believe that the reason we had a downturn in the economy is because of 9/11/2001. It has always been such, and shall always be such forevermore. Any major disaster causes a slip in consumer confidence, and causes the stock market to drop drastically.
I believe that had the Trade Towers been used as a landing strip with President Gore at the helm, that we would be in even bigger trouble than many claim that we are in now. I feel that Al Gore would not have declared war on terrorism. We would still (again, my own thoughts) be in as much danger as we were before hand, without as much support as we have now.
It is true that there might still be over 700 of America's young men and women (and old men and women) alive, and we would not be going through the scandal with the prisoners; however, we would have lost more than that in terrorist attacks around the world, and herwe at home because they knew we weren't going to do anything.

As for the increased terrorist activity in Iraq and Afghanistan (please, let's not forget our troops over there), I put this in the same category as the Tet offensive: a desperate attempt to sway American thoughts, and policy by a group that is losing, and needs a public relations coup in the hope that the American government will lose its nerve and stutter step.

My rambling actually has a point... Don't listen to ANYTHING anyone on this site has to say (including me). There are websites out there that offer an unbiased, unvarnished, non-political look at the candidates, the issues, and what's going on in the world. Read them, listen to the candidates on what they want to do(NOT what is wrong with the other guy), and think for yourself. Don't allow anyone to make up your mind for you. At the end of the day, you are going to ahve to live with yourself and the decisions you made. Make sure that those decisions are the ones you feel are best, and not a knee-jerk reaction to some rhetoric you heard someone screaming for or against a certain candidate.

OK... rant over.
Thanks for putting up with it.

And another thing... (with apologies to Dennis Miller)... With all due respect to Mr. Kerry... If I am a Catholic who was in the Navy, in war-time, and who was decorated, and who was a senator, and who was from Massechussetts, and graduated from an Ivy League school... There is NO WAY on this world, or the next that I am running for the highest office in the land. I heard what happened to the last one!!!!


Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again... http://www.cmlb.net/ringo
Aenimal
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111 posted 05-14-2004 10:26 PM       View Profile for Aenimal   Email Aenimal   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Aenimal

groan...
*Belabebeautiful*
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112 posted 05-15-2004 08:57 PM       View Profile for *Belabebeautiful*   Email *Belabebeautiful*   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for *Belabebeautiful*

Ringo-*applause* Amen sir! You said most everything I was thinking! and the little tid bit at the end cracked me up!
~Live and Laugh~

The nice thing about being a pesimest is that your either right, or pleasantly surprised.
~Bella~

 
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