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RIAA

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Miah2
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0 posted 09-27-2003 12:18 AM       View Profile for Miah2   Email Miah2   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Miah2

So what do you all think about this?  RIAA is and has sued people for file sharing.  Weather or not you use P2P software I would like to hear all your opinions.     

PS. The topic of this forum does not necessarily reflect my belifs.
http://www.msnbc.com/news/963684.asp
http://stacks.msnbc.com/news/938385.asp
OH sorry about the name, i got a new isp and had to come in under a different name, and forgot to use my old name and password.

[This message has been edited by Miah2 (09-27-2003 12:23 AM).]

Ringo
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1 posted 09-27-2003 02:22 PM       View Profile for Ringo   Email Ringo   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Ringo

I know I am probably taking the minority view, however, I have to agree in part with their actions.
As a musician, myself, with CD's on the market, and having been signed to a couple of deals over the last 20 years, I know how much money the musicians DON'T make on the CD's. Very often (actually, in most cases) the artist LOSES money on the CD's unless htey sell in excess of 1,000,000 copies, and even then, it is very possible that the band/artist will end up owing the record company money.
The typical deal gives the artist 15% of cassette sales... they get a commission on THEIR music. Out of that 15%, they have to pay for free CD's and cassettes that the company gives away for promotional purposes. For the CD's, the industry usually provides for 75% of standard (in otherwords, about 11% of sales). Plus the band/artist has to pay for the packaging of their CD. If the band gets tour support, then that has to come out of the CD money before they cna make any money... as does the promotional money that the record company spends...
Out of whatever is left, the band has to pay the company back for studio time, and the producer. The record company is also required to pay the musicians for their time in the studio... THAT money has to be paid back. Then the band has to pay their management and publicists, and legal beagles, and any number of hangers on...
To put this into "real" numbers, if an album goes platinum (1 million sold) then the band- as a whole-makes just over $1 million. By the time everything is paid for, weach member of a 5 person band makes just under $35,000. To put it more plainly, the GooGoo Dolls sold over 2,000,000 copies of their album Dizzy Up The Girl, and still owed Warner over $250,000 at the end of the tour.
Now, when you see it in plain figures, doesn't it make sense that when you get the music through an un-paid source, you are actually taking money away from the artist??
One last bit...
In the 70's when Ted Nugent went into the public and wailed on the people that were selling t-shirts and not paying him, the public was for him... It was his face, name, and art, he should get paid... however, now-a-days, people complain that these "rich" rock stars are being babies and that they should give their music freely... My last CD sold about 7,000 copies... And my band barely made $2,000.. and we did it ourselves. Now put us into the scenario I outlined earlier.
Just my thoughts, though.

We are all equal but we’re individually different
and able to reach the impossible if we try.

Miah
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2 posted 09-27-2003 02:54 PM       View Profile for Miah   Email Miah   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Miah

Ringo, I totally agree with you.  After Napster, i thought programs like kaZaa sent the proceeds from advertisemnts to the arits and record compines. Now, i know that is not true.  However, I still think the RIAA is going about it the wrong way.  If they want their sales in cds to go up, this is not the way to do it.

I know a lot of people that would be happy to pay for music online.  I also know that some people are tired of paying 23 bucks for a cd when there is only one or two good songs on it.  

However, that still does not mean file sharing is right, I just wish things could be handeled better.  

KristieSue
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3 posted 09-27-2003 03:35 PM       View Profile for KristieSue   Email KristieSue   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit KristieSue's Home Page   View IP for KristieSue

but I'd like to see a person who is opposed to file sharing, etc.  have NO music they downloaded off the net on their pc.  I've heard many opposed to it, but everyone has it.

I am not opposed to buying CD's.  I am not opposed to paying for my music online.  But, it must all be within reason.  I do NOT think that they have to charge $20 for a cd.  99% of the time I download music as a preview and then I buy the CD.  

I think the industry has started to go overboard with how much they charge consumers...in everything, not just CD's.  We don't have the right to everything for free, but we do have the right to express our views.  People have screamed about the prices, but no one has ever listened.  Now, when is starting to hurt them, they are.

"Vision without action is a daydream.  Action without vision is a nightmare." -Japanese Proverb
~ KS

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4 posted 09-27-2003 03:50 PM       View Profile for Ringo   Email Ringo   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Ringo

In the interest of giving fair time,I have to admit to having some music that I have downloaded from various sources... HOWEVER... that one's I got are not available to the general public. Songs such as:
Ozzy Osbourne singing Staying Alive by the BeeGees.
Iron Maiden doing Smoke on the Water and The Zoo live
4 different versions of Grandma Got Run Over By A Reindeer (Grandpa got Run Over by A Beer Truck, etc.)
Smoking Pot (sung to the tune of At The Hop)
Marijuanaville (sung to the tune of Margaritaville)
etc.
These are songs that cannot be gotten anywhere else. Trust me.. I have tried. I would LOVE to have an entire CD of Ozzy singing cover tunes, as well as other bands.
It is the ORIGINAL music that can be gotten from other sources that I have difficulties with.

We are all equal but we’re individually different
and able to reach the impossible if we try.

serenity blaze
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5 posted 09-27-2003 04:00 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

We are looking at a technological revolution. And gee, I think this has happened before. Okay, okay, I concede the point that film technology killed Vaudeville. (But actually, who cares?)

But television was supposed to kill the film industry. Then the VCR was supposed to do that as well. I'm old enough to remember the cassette replacing the 8 track--and album hours where DJ's would actually tell you when to hit record before they played an entire album--we all knew the purpose was to RECORD. And now file sharing is supposed to kill the record industry. I'm waiting to see the facts back this up.

A fact that is not disputed is that Britney Spears "One More Time" was available on Napster in entirety the first week of its release. "One More Time" also went Double Platinum. Britney doesn't appear to be hurting to me.

I am not sure what the solution is here, but I think the recording industry needs to accept the fact that this technology is here to stay--and they need to find a way to embrace that. I personally have no problem with watching the pimp master record executives go the way of the dinosaur. But I do believe that artists own their work, and should be compensated for that as well as have the legal right to protect the integrity of that work.

Perhaps file sharing CAN be legislated in such a way to benefit everybody.

But the industry is dealing with a savvy new customer. The recording industry has been raping artists for years. I find it extremely ironic that the rapist is now crying "Rape."



Miah
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6 posted 09-27-2003 04:02 PM       View Profile for Miah   Email Miah   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Miah

Okay, I can remeber growing up and saving my money to buy a tape, a friend comes over and says, "Hey I love that, let me copy it"  For years, even before the internet and file sharing people have been borrowing songs and sharing them with their friends.  I was more likely to buy a tape/cd that I have borrowed or tasted a bit of their music.  I like to know what I am getting before i perchuse something.  

So where can I get that sorce from?  MTV? Ha only if you have MTV 2 which I don't, VH1 only if I click at the right time.  How about the radio?  yeah they play one song of a artist over and over and over again.  No, from my friends, telling me how good it is or letting me borrow the tape/cd.

I would love a huge site that you can download music for a respectable price. Or even letting you sample a few songs to see if you like it.


by the way I read somewhere, dont know where, but I will try and find it later, that one artist said that file sharing actually helped her music, she saw a rise in the number of bought CDs since file sharing came out.  

[This message has been edited by Miah (09-27-2003 04:08 PM).]

Ringo
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7 posted 09-27-2003 06:47 PM       View Profile for Ringo   Email Ringo   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Ringo

Actually, Miah, there are several places to get music for a price, and for a decent price at that. Some of them you pay by the song others, you pay by the minute.
Some places are:
Liquid Audio
MP3.com
itunes
soundbuzz.com
Hope It Helps

We are all equal but we’re individually different
and able to reach the impossible if we try.

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8 posted 09-27-2003 09:08 PM       View Profile for Wind   Email Wind   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Wind

This whole thing is stupid. perhaps I am the only one who has done this..but everything I listen to is a result of randomly downloaded artists. And now I have their cds. I just bought a cd today by an artist I would have never heared of if it weren't for file shareing. And they happen to be my favorite band now. This is not stopping me from buying cds, I actualy didn't even start buying cds until I started downloading.  

And the angel said unto me, "These are the cries of the carrots, the cries of the carrots!"
-Tool

Local Rebel
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9 posted 09-27-2003 09:59 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

I have no file sharing software on my computer and I have never downloaded any music -- I do have mp3 players and writers/converters though and do use the media for other purposes.

I buy CD's though.  Not only for the reasons Ringo mentioned but because I like them.  They aren't overpriced in my opinion.  You get quite a bit in that little package.

However -- I think I know why downloading music has become more popular than buying the CD -- it's because that darn little package is so friggin hard to open...!  

Once owned though I think it is appropriate to load it on your computer if desired for your own use -- make backup copies -- mp3s for your RIO etc....

This is intellectual property we're talking about here folks.  I would think that a bunch of writers would be the first to realize how important that is.
Miah
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10 posted 09-27-2003 11:24 PM       View Profile for Miah   Email Miah   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Miah

Ringo,
your very right there are pay sites.  But I think instead of sueing 12 year olds and grandparents they should invest there time and money in shutting down illegal sites.  I think edcuating people and working with them in a compromise is a better solution.
Local Rebel
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11 posted 09-27-2003 11:31 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

But Miah -- with file sharing software that 12-year-old's computer IS the illegal site!

[This message has been edited by Local Rebel (09-27-2003 11:31 PM).]

Miah
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12 posted 09-27-2003 11:40 PM       View Profile for Miah   Email Miah   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Miah

So we should punish the druggie and not the drug dealer?  maybe your right, but who is to say she knew it was wrong, or how wrong, i suppose giving her the benifit of the doubt is out of the  question.  What about the grandmother who was charged for something should could not have done since she owned a computer which did not suppoert file sharing.  I guess we aim the gun and shoot and ask questions later.
Local Rebel
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13 posted 09-28-2003 12:19 AM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

Does a 12-year-old know that it's illegal to shoplift?  That's a better analogy than drug dealers and users here.

The difference though -- is that Wal-Mart can't and won't prosecute the parent of the 12-year-old -- only the perpetrator.

In the instance of the music industry vs. offenders thogh -- no one is being arrested (even though a prosecutable offense has been committed) only sued -- and only to make the point that they want the behaviour stopped.

Their strategy seems to be to send the message that they will go after whoever does this big or small -- which I will agree is unfortunate.  The prospects of catching every offender is about as likely as State Troopers catching every single speeder on the highway.

But if a 12-year-old takes grandma's car out on the highway and speeds, and gets caught he'll get a ticket.  And, if he does damage with her vehicle grandma is finiancially obligated.

The same theory holds with her computer.
Miah
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14 posted 09-28-2003 12:37 AM       View Profile for Miah   Email Miah   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Miah

I agree with you, but I hardly find shoplifting a cd and sharing music online the same.  As children it is in stilled in us that stealing is wrong not to take things that don't belong to you.  It is thrown in our face when we go shopping, signs that say "shop lifters will be Prosecuted to the full extent of the law"  

But when it comes to computers, our parents don't tells us that its wrong to file share and pretty much its hard to find those good old signs you see in the store, especially if your like me and don't always read the fine print/user agreements.lol

Well, as for the RIAA they may be sueing now but jail for some may not be out of the question yet.  What is a person to do? either pay 150,000 per song you download, make a deal, or go to jail.  Of course there going to make a deal, not many 12 year olds or their parents have 150,000 to throw around.  Personally, I know from my college days I was lucky to have 10 bucks to throw around.  


It's a very high price to pay for a lesson.

I doubt very highly if that 12 year old shoplfted a cd or two he/she would not be fined for that much money.  He/she would most likely return the cd and pay a small fine. etc.. if repeted maybe a higher price.  I find that no different than file sharing, its the same as stealing a cd.  However, I admit I never shoplifted before so I wouldn't know the penalty.
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15 posted 09-28-2003 01:45 AM       View Profile for Ringo   Email Ringo   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Ringo

I do tend to agree that $150,000 is a bit much unless there was some under the table selling going on... which could never be proven.
A more appropriate fine would be definately in order, though, with ALL of the money going to the musicians on the miscreant's computer... but you know how our "wonderful" legal system works...

We are all equal but we’re individually different
and able to reach the impossible if we try.

serenity blaze
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16 posted 09-28-2003 05:55 AM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

I AM invisable.

Except for THIS little jockey strap...

(I just thought it was cute...)

shrug.

KristieSue
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17 posted 09-28-2003 09:35 AM       View Profile for KristieSue   Email KristieSue   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit KristieSue's Home Page   View IP for KristieSue

and it should be just as illegal to steal a song that hasn't been formally put onto a CD of songs by a certain artist as it is to steal a song that has been.  As soon as we start saying "This is ok, but this is not" chaos will begin.  Either it's WRONG or it's not.

I also don't see how they can take a 12 yr old and make an example of her, when we have thousands of other people copying quite a bit more than she was and selling copies.  I agree with Miah in saying that if the companies (Napster, etc) weren't available, people wouldn't make use of them.

Serenity~I see you very clearly, you're hardly invisible :-p

Rebel~Kudos to you for actually standing behind what you say.  You are the first person I've met that can say that.  I buy CD's.  I have 200 or so of them, but if I bought EVERY CD I wanted, well, I can't.  I'm not saying that the way people have abused these sites is right.  But, I don't think they should go around fining (that word doesn't look right) people.  Get rid of the sites.  Make them pay sites if that's a must and give the money to the musicians.  Making that girl or her grandmother pay $150K (lmao) isn't going to stop Joe down the street for the simple reason most people sit around thinking "It'll never happen to me".




"Vision without action is a daydream.  Action without vision is a nightmare." -Japanese Proverb
~ KS

[This message has been edited by KristieSue (09-28-2003 09:40 AM).]

Miah
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18 posted 09-28-2003 10:59 AM       View Profile for Miah   Email Miah   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Miah

serenity,  what color is your jocky strap? LOL


KristieSue,

I agree with you.  

To me it's not a question that p2p is wrong.  It's a question on how it is handled.  

"Oh lookey here I got a law passed where I can go subpoena the hell out of everyones ISPs."  

Okay, I have a problem with that, a lot of people share ISP #'s. by doing so you are going to get a great deal of mix ups as in the case of that grandmother.
Local Rebel
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19 posted 09-28-2003 11:31 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

OH Serentity -- that was YOU sitting over there in the jock strap... ? HUH?  JOCK STRAP?

ah -- but what I was going to remind you of was the copy protection that was built into VCR's that saved the motion picture industry a bundle of time and money -- it was entierly necessary -- not to mention that FBI warning at the begining of the tape -- that really scared the heck out of people huh???

but there is a vast difference between the medias of moovies and music... how many times does one realistically replay a movie?  (if they don't have a 2 year old re-watching Disney flicks over and over and over and over?) vs. how many times do people replay a CD or an MP3.... the habits are entirely different

KS... yes -- if we could all just afford everything we want eh?  I wonder how boring that would be though? :shrug:

just do it the old fashioned way --- record off the radio... which I suspect will be the next big problem with XM and other satelite systems -- I look for an audio version of Macrovision to come around soon

[This message has been edited by Local Rebel (09-28-2003 11:33 PM).]

Miah
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20 posted 09-28-2003 11:52 PM       View Profile for Miah   Email Miah   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Miah

hahaha... When I was a kid I use to record off the radio, I had a whole tape full of broken songs and the announcers voice.  You had to time it just right.  However, I don't see the music and movie industry hurting for money, but it's not about that.  It's about what is right and wrong, what is yours and what is theirs.  

Nothing in life is free, I'm surprised there is not a tax on air. lol
Magicmystery
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21 posted 10-01-2003 03:19 AM       View Profile for Magicmystery   Email Magicmystery   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Magicmystery's Home Page   View IP for Magicmystery

I look for older stuff... the rareties that I just cannot seem to find in a music store... and there are other times I download. In my early 20's (that would be the 80's) I spent alot of money on tapes... because I owned a tape player with my sterio.... Cd Players were just too expensive new technology always is.  Now I want to compile and enjoy those same songs on my new cd/mp3 player.  Some of these tapes are old, warped and some are just goo.... the 8 track tapes of John Denver didn't survive.  These are the tunes I am trying to recapture... an extensive collection.   Does that mean that I should have to pay again for the things that I already own... just so I can hear them properly.  The music industry has already made its money off of me... and sometimes twice.... I bought Enya's Watermark on Tape and lost it when my car was stollen... and was actually desperate to by the only copy (on vinyl) the record store had of it because I wanted it again.  

OK I'm ranting... I just dont' think what I am doing is criminal.  I do buy CDs... I enjoy new music and support those artists... I just don't want to shell out thousands of bucks ... again... for songs I already own... just so I can play them in my new cd/dvd/mp3 player (my tape player broke 3 years ago) and the belt on my record player broke last year)

Sherry

PS... I did try to record from my walkman into the pc's sound recorder and convert wave to mp3 but the volume control was tricky and the quality sucked.., but I tried
serenity blaze
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22 posted 10-01-2003 04:22 AM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

It is a MAGICK jock strap.



Obviously.

It made me VISABLE.

And Reb?

I beg to argue a bit more on yer point.


"but there is a vast difference between the medias of moovies and music."

Yaw, but not really. And we have sites now, that are taking the liberty of editing in movies--damn I'll find the link and show you---but it's similar to the concept of colorizing a black and white flick, but now with ramifications of artistic "license" taken AWAY with written word. (Nobody thought that the green version of "It's A Wonderful Life" mattered THEN, either--BUT--Can you imagine a "G" version of Pulp Fiction?)

As for the copyright protected VCR? sigh.

Who CARES? It's all about the disc now. And just saying "no no, you mustn't" doesn't stop the propagation of offspring of industry. Just ask the Smith Family. They are practicing CATHOLICS...all 547 of them, counting their first cousins only.

And they feared GOD, but "did it" anyway.

Naw.

This has gone beyond a bit of control by the gov't. And yanno? I USED to be a happy pirate, downloading music quite contendedly from the various providers of such services.

I don't do that anymore. I simply ask m'friends when they stop by, "HEY??? What ya got in the stash?" and if there's something I like? It takes a grand total of 4.36 minutes for me to have a copy of such. I honestly don't see how this is much different than the dual cassette recorder.

I still buy original CD's. I still attend concerts. I simply refuse to pay 20+ $$ for a CD that I haven't HEARD.

And obviously, I agree with the Artist here. But I do see this technological revolution as a benefit to some--some with the intitiative to utilize the internet have PROSPERED.

Just ask Widespread Panic.

If you can FIND them.

Not hard to do, they are more than likely ON TOUR. Coming soon to a city near YOU.

And I CAN go on and on, (oh LARS of Metallica? COMPARING HIS LIFE TO THAT OF A MECHANIC? PUH------lease.) I'd like to see him after six months on his back, wrenching lugs and doing oil changes. (grin..kinda turns me on...shrug)

smile.

I's kinda kinky dat way.

"smooches" says I.


Ringo
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23 posted 10-01-2003 10:21 AM       View Profile for Ringo   Email Ringo   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Ringo

Widespread Panic absolutely Rule.... (Geez, I sound like my son!!!)
I'm not, as a rule, one for jam bands, yet these guys are awesome.

We are all equal but we’re individually different
and able to reach the impossible if we try.

Miah
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Posts 1092
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24 posted 10-03-2003 11:38 AM       View Profile for Miah   Email Miah   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Miah

http://www.eff.org/news/breaking/archives/2003_10.php#000487


quote:
October 01, 2003
EFF Commentary on Coleman hearings
At Congressional hearings yesterday, the RIAA announced that it was ceasing its campaign of "sue first and ask questions later" in its crusade against American filesharers and would begin to write letters first before launching litigation.

"It's too bad that it took episodes like the mistaken lawsuit against the 65-year-old grandmother Sarah Ward and a Congressional inquiry to bring the RIAA to follow the basic practice of contacting a potential defendant and attempting to resolve matters informally before suing," noted EFF Legal Director Cindy Cohn. "Now that they've taken this first step, the RIAA should take a second and more important one that could end this entire matter tomorrow -- offer all Americans the opportunity to continue filesharing by paying a monthly fee."

Posted at 11:18 AM


HA!! little too late if you ask me
 
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