How to Join Member's Area Private Library Search Today's Topics p Login
Main Forums Discussion Tech Talk Mature Content Archives
   Nav Win
 Discussion
 The Alley
 PIP is not perfect   [ Page: 1  2  3  4  5  ]
 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49
Follow us on Facebook

 Moderated by: Ron   (Admins )

 
User Options
Format for Better Printing EMail to a Friend Not Available
Admin Print Send ECard
Passions in Poetry

PIP is not perfect

 Post A Reply Post New Topic   Go to the Next Oldest/Previous Topic Return to Topic Page Go to the Next Newest Topic 
S Arthur Grey
Senior Member
since 03-19-2001
Posts 727
woven by a poet's loom


25 posted 08-25-2003 11:14 PM       View Profile for S Arthur Grey   Email S Arthur Grey   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for S Arthur Grey

Serenity,
Never mind.
You meant "Volvo"?

s.a.g.  

[This message has been edited by S Arthur Grey (08-26-2003 01:37 AM).]

Aenimal
Member Rara Avis
since 11-18-2002
Posts 7451
the ass-end of space


26 posted 08-25-2003 11:19 PM       View Profile for Aenimal   Email Aenimal   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Aenimal

No no sir arthur not their real names you misunderstood. We all use screen names but often we know the person behind the write. I'm Raphael my screen name is aenimal..if i write something you know who i am..now if i write under a new screen name or a dozen and you don't know who i am that's what you should be wary or have a problem with
serenity blaze
Member Empyrean
since 02-02-2000
Posts 28839


27 posted 08-25-2003 11:26 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

HUH?

I used the word "volga"

my rendition of the word "volvo"--an automobile.

The befuddlement deepens.

I didn't mention anatomy.

????
Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 05-19-99
Posts 9708
Michigan, US


28 posted 08-25-2003 11:33 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
I'm not trying to achieve perfection I'm trying to achieve a place where people can comment or point out imperfections without getting slagged, a place where opinions can be expressed without fear or having to hide behind names. and where people and mods alike can be as honest in the forums as they are to me in private discussions

People can be just as honest in the forums as in private, Raph. What's more, I rather strongly suspect they are just as honest in the forums as they are in your private discussions. Or perhaps, more accurately, just as "not entirely honest" in both venues?

It's human nature. By and large, people want others to agree with them. What you call honesty, in most cases, stems in large from common ground. How many men tell you they beat their wives? How many women complain to you that their children are burdens? You probably don't hear very much of that, because everything I've seen you post suggests you would be less than receptive. If people are discussing things with you in private that they would not be willing to do in public, it's because they feel one audience will agree with them (mostly) and the other will not (again, mostly). I can practically guarantee, 99 people out of a hundred will NOT tell you something they know you'll strongly disagree with. And the remaining one percent is probably just trying to pick a fight.

That raises, I think, three related issues.

Part of that has to be our fault. Or, rather, my fault. Our rules preclude personal attacks, but any really good writer (of which we obviously have a few) can usually skirt that rule at least temporarily (later, they'll likely discover such things are accumulative and will come back to haunt them). Rules don't really cut it. They never have in any community, and I doubt they ever will. Rules can't make people get along with each other. Rules can't enforce tolerance. We've tried to build a small little world where things like respect and tolerance are engendered by attitude, not by rules. Obviously, we haven't been a hundred percent successful. That's my fault.

But the blame, I think, has to be shared, too. We can give people a place as free from personal attacks as is possible to develop, but we can't ever give anyone the courage they need to face inevitable disagreements. Opinions are cheap because, again, they are usually shared amongst those who already agree. Convictions, on the other hand, cost us, often dearly. Two or three or five people of like mind can avoid contention. But if you want to make a change within a group much larger than that, you have to be willing to face disagreement. Because disagreement, after all, is what often happens when you let the other guy speak as forcibly as you just did.

The third issue, in my opinion, is the most important.

Pointing out imperfections, here or anywhere, is utterly futile unless you are also willing to offer solutions. I tend to complain frequently about Michigan winters, and though I try to do it with a little humor, I nonetheless know that's all it really is. Complaining. Whining. There's absolutely nothing wrong with a little complaining, of course, but taken too far, it stops being complaining and simply becomes a bad attitude. And those tend to be contagious. At some point, if I don't watch my step, my family is going to tell me to just shut up about the snow and get my butt back to California.

Pointing out problems is fine. Solutions are a hell of a lot better, though.

So, are there any solutions? Or are the imperfections you mention, Raph, like my Michigan winters, just something we have to accept or avoid?


Aenimal
Member Rara Avis
since 11-18-2002
Posts 7451
the ass-end of space


29 posted 08-26-2003 12:00 AM       View Profile for Aenimal   Email Aenimal   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Aenimal

Ron I agree with you but isnt pointing the problem out a way to get to the solutions..thats why its a discussion forum. But how can we find the solutions alone and how can we find them if they're being attacked? And as for people being as honest behind the psuedonyms or in private it's not the case for some. I say some again because this is not and never was a blanket attack those what I speak of know who they are Ron.
I'm not going to name names but don't think that some of those mods and users who smile and agree with you haven't expressed different views to me.

And again not all comments are nice either..there are hostile complaints that desreve an equally hostile response

[This message has been edited by Aenimal (08-26-2003 12:02 AM).]

Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 05-19-99
Posts 9708
Michigan, US


30 posted 08-26-2003 01:03 AM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

The first step, it seems to me, is to agree what is and isn't a problem.

I do not agree, for example, that aliases are commonly assumed so "they can make more honest or controversial stances." Indeed, I would expect that to be the exception rather than the rule. But even if it were true, would it really matter? First, if that's the crutch someone needs to be honest, it would be prudent of us to provide it. And, second, if our discussions turn more on WHO says something instead of WHAT someone says, we've got much bigger problems than any you've listed.

Are cliques a problem or, as Mike contends, simply inevitable? In my opinion, a clique is just another name for friendship, and I think both terms are far too broad to label them good or bad. A small group of like-minded friends is usually considered a good thing. If that group becomes preclusive and divisive, it's a bad thing. What do we do if it becomes a bad thing? Refuse to participate. Alone, I know that will accomplish very little, but alone, nothing we do will accomplish much. One person refusing to participate is the first step towards everyone refusing to participate.

The only problem I agree is a problem (among those you listed) is that an open exchange of ideas and poetry can suffer when the environment becomes more about socializing than about writing. That doesn't mean that socializing isn't an important part of the process, because it is, but I also think it should be subservient to a deeper understanding of people and of ourselves. Yes, it should be about the poetry, but even that is a double-edged sword, because it is inevitably about the poetry and NOT about the poem. We judge others, I think, not just by the few lines they post today, but also by their entire body of work. Should that include their actions, too? If you know they lie, cheat, steal and beat their kids twice a week, should you really feel comfortable telling them how beautiful their butterfly poem is? I honestly don't know the right answer to that. But I can, I think, empathize with just about any answer one might give.

I also recognize another problem, one you didn't list, Raph, though one you certainly identified. Those you cite who smile and agree in public, then express different views to you in private, are very likely lying to all of us. Values are part of a person, not part of a relationship. If a person steals for me, someday they will steal from me. If a woman cheats with me, someday she will cheat on me. And when I see a person openly lie, I have to assume nothing they tell me is the truth.
Aenimal
Member Rara Avis
since 11-18-2002
Posts 7451
the ass-end of space


31 posted 08-26-2003 02:44 AM       View Profile for Aenimal   Email Aenimal   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Aenimal

I do not agree, for example, that aliases are commonly assumed so "they can make more honest or controversial stances." Indeed, I would expect that to be the exception rather than the rule. But even if it were true, would it really matter? First, if that's the crutch someone needs to be honest, it would be prudent of us to provide it. And, second, if our discussions turn more on WHO says something instead of WHAT someone says, we've got much bigger problems than any you've listed.

Ok so 'common use' was a generalization on my part see im not perfect either gasp lol
But i disagree i don't think any honest person should use that crutch or should be given that crutch..especially a mod. The purpose of moderators beyond editing is to help contribute to the growth of pip and if you have to hide behind a name to contribute i think its wrong


Those you cite who smile and agree in public, then express different views to you in private, are very likely lying to all of us

Ron its those people I'm calling on in this thread not everybody, those are the people who are hostile, who abuse the psuedonyms and whose cliques and attitudes ruin the forums. NOT ALL people. sigh I wish that would get through?

As for those cliques:
My problem with the cliques is not that they exist i've said from the beginning its bound to happen. But when it comes to the poetry portions of this site like Open..it should be about POETRY not simply friendships. As i said when youre not responding to someone's poetry simply because you can't get along or you're friend cant get along with theres a problem. It's no longer a poetry board.
Sunshine
Administrator
Member Caelestus
since 06-25-99
Posts 67715
Listening to every heart


32 posted 08-26-2003 07:10 AM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine

quote:
My problem with the cliques is not that they exist i've said from the beginning its bound to happen. But when it comes to the poetry portions of this site like Open..it should be about POETRY not simply friendships. As i said when youre not responding to someone's poetry simply because you can't get along or you're friend cant get along with theres a problem. It's no longer a poetry board.


I think I understand your position with this comment, Raph.  But, as in all areas of life, as was pointed out before, people don't necessarily show "all of their true colors" in a BB area, even as they hide their faults/dislikes in real life, until they reach a certain point.  Then, as can happen, their true colors DO come out, and folks are seen for who they truly are.  Some, in deference to any raised eyebrows, may say "oops, just had a bad day," or "oops, I didn't mean that," or "wow, did I really say that?"  Or some merely say, "This is what I said and this is how I feel and you can like it or lump it."  Most times, that is when a line seems suddenly to be drawn in the sand.  Outside of a valued friendship, most folks would just say, "well, there you go, have a good life" and leave that person alone with their values and outlook.  Inside of that valued friendship, folks would try to continue along with communication to find out why someone they thought they knew had suddenly veered sharply left or right.

As for psuedonyms, I know several poets who adopted a new name simply because they wanted to make sure that their poetry stood on its own.  Simply because friendships had been made, they didn't want people to read them just because it was morning and at 6:07 a.m. people get up, grab a cup of coffee, and begin reading poetry and or the NY Times.  A different paper with a different slant on news; a different name and a different slant on rhyme...would it be read with the same pleasure?  The same sharp eye?  The same bit of poetic understanding?

For a lot of people, adopting a new name for their poetry, [as do several well-published authors, simply to see if they would still be read as avidly as under their successful name] is because they want to make sure that their work can stand the test of time, and the eye of the reader.

But in the discussion areas, what I have seen, normally and for the most part, is that the person you know in the persona you've come to know them, will answer for themselves.

But you talk of private conversations, and, for the sake of argument I will assume, revelations of things you never knew before.  Until all of us can have the facts you have, this imperfection of PiP will remain imperfect to you - because we are not all holding cards from the same deck.

Thank you for sharing your concerns.  


[This message has been edited by Sunshine (08-26-2003 02:50 PM).]

gemjop
Member Elite
since 11-18-2002
Posts 2663
Pencilveinia, USA


33 posted 08-26-2003 07:30 AM       View Profile for gemjop   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for gemjop


I understand completely what raph means when he uses the word Clique.

Sometimes in here, it's like going back to school, people 'ganging up' against people through personal issues, and not so personal, petty issues, using their clique of friends to make people feel unwelcome? it's childish. like bullies. I know I use the word clique in the negative way, as do many people when describing when 'friendships' are used to exclude and upset others. Once again using power in numbers. and oh, it is pathetic, and seen more and more often. I wish I could ever think of the word clique in a positive way, in representing a group of good friends. But no, in some cases, it doesn't stop there.


That, to me is something people should get a grip of. A lot of us here are adults, and some of the younger members behave in a more mature manner than the adults.

and I know, this behaviour is rife all over the world, lol, always the places you least expect. Once, working for a religious charitable organisation, I have never experienced so much cattiness and bitching. Behind backs, always. Don't ge me wrong, those people were so lovely, but to eachother, they couldn't have been more vile. Trying to involve others in thier own personal indifferences. And it was so sad to see. and no, I'm not saying that just because they were religious, they shouldn't have been making these mistakes, and that it was worse. But because it was a loving environment, with no need for such behaviour. Like pip.  Like many people, I suppose i expect more of pip. But in the end, we can say PIP isn't perfect  til our eyeballs turn blue, there can never be enough rules to keep everything peaceful, our entire earth is the perfect example don't you think? lol. But when we say US, I think , it may make more sense, then, we may be getting somewhere. It is so true, when we are seen at fault, we go nnoooooo not ME! For a long long time, we hide from our own faults, and why? Even when we SAY we are admitting to something, who goes and takes a look at themselves and does something about it.

to quote lennon, people say, that I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one.

he he. thanks john. R.I.P xx

I know its asking something that people have asked for millions of times before, but pip is, a one in a million kind of place, with people here, that I'd never have met before. and I'm becoming saddened more often, watching the boards of late. Though there is a whooooole lot of love going on in this place, there is so much unneccessary 'attitude'
also.

I KNOW, we can't all get along. It's impossible. Raph knows that, and don't we all. I know I don't get along with some people, but I don't go out of my way to make others dislike them. Nor make that person feel uncomfortable. But I think maybe Raph wanted to make people look at some of their behaviour, SOME of the time. to step back and look at how easily we all fall under one of those categories.

perhaps the way to DO something about it, should be seen as a personal goal. To look at how we push people away, and never give them chances. To say what we really mean to eachother, without having to bicker, talk behind closed doors. Agreeing with things/people, when we hold a completely different view in reality.

Because it is true, when someone complains, we all act as if this whole place is perfect, and the answers given are that to leave, and do they know how hard ron works.

Most of us do, and appreciate, and always will.

But again, when those arrows are fired, we duck, and let them hit PIP, and not ourselves. I myself am witnessing, not problems with rules, but problems with peoples attitudes towards eachother.

We all make mistakes, why not everybody look at them, or even recognise them, and do something about them. it never hurts to ask. does it? and maybe out of a 1000 who reads this, one person may look at themselves and their behaviour and think, huh, yep guilty, and make a change.

Me, a pathetic dreamer? YES! and proud.


Instant karma's gonna get you.

[This message has been edited by gemjop (08-28-2003 12:02 AM).]

Titia Geertman
Member Ascendant
since 05-07-2001
Posts 5297
Netherlands


34 posted 08-26-2003 09:01 AM       View Profile for Titia Geertman   Email Titia Geertman   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Titia Geertman's Home Page   View IP for Titia Geertman



Er....Um....wrote this before I saw and read page 2
________________________________________
The point is then, a common purpose for these name changes is to hide behind them instead of being honest and up front with their opinions.
balladeer no I dont believe it is as an open exchange as it could be. how open can it be if people are often afraid to speak out or have to hide behind pseudonyms to do so?
_________________________________________

I wonder, why does it bother you so much that people use different names to vent their opinions on the internet?
Look around you in real life and tell me how many people speak their true mind right in your face (or anyone elses for that matter). Most people wear masks one time or other.

How much you want to, you can't change human's nature, wich is for one thing to protect and hide oneself.

Who on earth wants PIP to be perfect
Perfection is an utopia and besides that it's rather subjective and therefore impossible (thank God).

And if someone is so unhappy being here for whatever reason, why can't we just tell that person to look elsewhere to find a more suitable place.

Most of those 'unhappy' people seem to forget they're just visiting someone's home. They claim to have rights, but actually they don't have any rights whatsoever.

If you're attending a birthday party and one of the guests is saying or yelling 'I don't like this party''I don't like the drinks or the food, or the company''I can't do here what I want to do, because the host won't let me'....then give me one reason why this person shoudn't be asked kindly to move his but to somewhere else and if he/she is still going on yelling, be thrown out of the house?

It's often the way in wich their complaints/opinions are phrased that gets out hostile answers. They're full of 'I want', 'I will', 'You should', 'You must' in stead of 'hey listen, I have this problem and want to talk about it and hear different opinions, because I don't know if my mind is set right about this'...

That would ring a totally other bell in people's mind I think.

Oh well, that's worth my two dimes and I think I'm broke now

Titia



Like scattered leaves...my words will flow

[This message has been edited by Titia Geertman (08-26-2003 09:06 AM).]

Janet Marie
Member Laureate
since 01-22-2000
Posts 18986


35 posted 08-26-2003 09:46 AM       View Profile for Janet Marie   Email Janet Marie   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Janet Marie

OK...so how do we create a place where its all about poetry and honesty?
A place where all replies are sincerely about the poem and not about friendships with who wrote the poem..or about racking up numbers or only replying to them cause they did you?

That would encompass near total anonymity wouldn't it? As both the Author and the replier...

So lets make a forum that way.....( as if I know how)  LOL

No screen names and personas...just a poem posted by a random number given to the post by the forum software.
No email addys posted.. so we cant contact each other and make friends outside the replies....
No pictures up to create familiarity or attractions
No ICQ or chat screen
No flirting or joking around
No cyber affairs, dating and etc....
No posting cyber love( or hate) poetry to a fellow member
Reply to the poem as a constructive critique only...no consoling or comforting over the emotions expressed or so on.
No replies of affection or familiarity or friendship.....
No cute smiley icons or cut and paste unspecific replies...

would that make it be all about poetry only and would we know then its about the poem and not the poet or cliques?

Could this environment even be created and work?

How many would still be here if it was only about poetry and not the social aspects that come along in time?

I recall reading a discussion about this where Ron said something about trying to create an anonymous forum at some point.
Is this something that is even possible?

Would be very interesting to see how it all played out.

[This message has been edited by Janet Marie (08-26-2003 10:07 AM).]

suthern
Deputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Seraphic
since 07-29-99
Posts 20770
on the threshold of a dream


36 posted 08-26-2003 09:49 AM       View Profile for suthern   Email suthern   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for suthern

Aenimal: I pretty much agree with everything you said... except for one thing. *S* You argue quite well. *S*

I don't do much besides peek into the discussion forums... but I've seen several poems on open that are thinly disguised potshots. They don't cross any guidelines... but the snickers and giggles don't leave much to the imagination.

But there seems to be a rock and a hard spot here... you either name the names or no one wants to hear... subtlety doesn't seem to work. *S* And like so many infractions in sports, when the initial fouls aren't seen, it's those who are pushed too far too long and eventually retaliate that suffer the consequences.

I love PIP... even when some of the members aren't too lovable. *G* But yes... I wish. *S*
suthern
Deputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Seraphic
since 07-29-99
Posts 20770
on the threshold of a dream


37 posted 08-26-2003 09:51 AM       View Profile for suthern   Email suthern   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for suthern

JM: I didn't read your post until after finishing mine... but NO joking or flirting or friendships?? LOL Count me OUT! *G*

I just wanna disarm some of those that sling arrows. *S*
Janet Marie
Member Laureate
since 01-22-2000
Posts 18986


38 posted 08-26-2003 10:26 AM       View Profile for Janet Marie   Email Janet Marie   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Janet Marie

quote:
but I've seen several poems on open that are thinly disguised potshots. They don't cross any guidelines... but the snickers and giggles don't leave much to the imagination.


Thank you Ruth for bringing this point up as well.....because this kind of thing is more damaging to the forums than honest voicing of opinion that might meet with disagreement
And its been more than several posts and its been going on for months now...the poems are personal attacks on members and policies here and the replies from the blind followers are just as disrespectful and destructive.

Its divided the forums...cost friendships and has nothing to do with poetry.

Add that to the "kiss and tell" revenge mentality poetry when a cyber fling goes down in flames and it all makes for bitter reading.


I dont know Raph...how much honesty is too much?  Can we each handle the responsiblity of total honesty?
And some just like to fight...plain and simple..they like confrontation and stirring up trouble. They feed off the drama and ego of the behavior.

Its already on this thread--"We" cant even seem to agree to disagree with out someone taking it personal and then the insults start.

[This message has been edited by Janet Marie (08-26-2003 10:26 AM).]

Miah
Senior Member
since 08-26-2002
Posts 1092
Pennsylvania


39 posted 08-26-2003 10:42 AM       View Profile for Miah   Email Miah   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Miah

Okay a bit confused.  But am I right in saying that Aenimal is upset or concerened because people are posting replies that are like "Oh this place is great, if you don't like it get out" Then in private they are going "well, that person did have some good points"  

As for cliques is he not saying that people seem to reply to poetry to only their friends and leaving some people out in the dust? That we tend to huddle together rather than expand and try to make new friends?

Am I wrong in this assumption?  I just want to make sure I am on the same page.
timothysangel1973
Deputy Moderator 5 Tours
Senior Member
since 12-03-2001
Posts 1749
Never close enough


40 posted 08-26-2003 12:05 PM       View Profile for timothysangel1973   Email timothysangel1973   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit timothysangel1973's Home Page   View IP for timothysangel1973

Can't we all just love each other and get along....hehe

)))hugs(((

Tima
Opeth
Member Elite
since 12-13-2001
Posts 2224
The Ravines


41 posted 08-26-2003 02:05 PM       View Profile for Opeth   Email Opeth   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Opeth

I don't get this...

Dramatics 101?

For Pete's sake (I wish you well, Mr. Sampras), this is only, and I mean only a Poetry Website.
Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


42 posted 08-26-2003 02:27 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Ralph, I've always been a believer in the glass houses and nasty little rock theory so I thought I'd doo a little checking on the sincerity of your complaints...

One wouldn't think so because one of the other problems with pip is the cliques.
" i don't respond to her because she doesn't respond to mine"
" I used to read him but then he broke up with so and so"
Hmmm and here i was thinking it was about the poetry?


Nan I agree with you we have to choose our friends, at the same time it's a poetry site and friend or not certain poets should be recognized by talent not by cliques

The clique is a major problem and one that shouldn't affect a poetry board. Here's why its one thing to have cliques in a discussion argument forum. But with poetry where the writing should be key its a sad thing.

My problem with the cliques is not that they exist i've said from the beginning its bound to happen. But when it comes to the poetry portions of this site like Open..it should be about POETRY not simply friendships. As i said when youre not responding to someone's poetry simply because you can't get along or you're friend cant get along with theres a problem. It's no longer a poetry board.

Balladeer I respect you as a poet


Ralph, if you respect me as a poet then I would assume you respect my work...and yet a small search on your replies to my work reveals....zilch. LOL! Believe me, I'm not one to keep track of who responds to my poetry at all....I appreciate them all but I don't keep a scorecard and your not responding doesn't bother me in the slightest. You could easily shoot me down by simply saying you don't like my stuff but then, since you have stated here that you DO respect my poetic ability, that wouldn't fly. So it appears to me you are also engaged in the very thing that you are criticizing....and that's not even a criticism of you. It's a part of human nature. You and I have had disagreements in the past, you respect me as a poet, you do not comment on my work. Life works that way. Personalities affect our actions. To say that there must be no personality-induced responses (or lack of) in a place like this is not being realistic....and to fault the site for having that is not really a fair assessment of the quality of the PIP. The only way to overcome it is to practice what we preach...and that's always a toughie....

Aenimal
Member Rara Avis
since 11-18-2002
Posts 7451
the ass-end of space


43 posted 08-26-2003 03:38 PM       View Profile for Aenimal   Email Aenimal   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Aenimal

Yes Janet thats it exactly, i need perfection..yeeeesh  

sighhhhhh

First of all Opeth if that Sampras comment was towards me:
A) i'm not leaving
B) i'm not being dramatic
C) I'll see you in hell (with all due respect)

Balladeer is it about quantity then? Have I not replied to some of your work and were you not gone for a month or two at one point? Did i not welcome you back, don't make me go into the archives because i did say it was nice to see you when you did return (though im regretting it now   kidding)

[This message has been edited by Aenimal (08-26-2003 04:37 PM).]

Miah
Senior Member
since 08-26-2002
Posts 1092
Pennsylvania


44 posted 08-26-2003 03:48 PM       View Profile for Miah   Email Miah   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Miah

I must be one of "those" people.
Aenimal
Member Rara Avis
since 11-18-2002
Posts 7451
the ass-end of space


45 posted 08-26-2003 04:35 PM       View Profile for Aenimal   Email Aenimal   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Aenimal

nevermind i bow out, absolute futility
QjQ
Member Elite
since 04-18-2003
Posts 3938
U.S.A.


46 posted 08-26-2003 04:40 PM       View Profile for QjQ   Email QjQ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for QjQ

oh my what interesting thoughts have been expressed,, My Knowledge is now better enriched about PiP,,

     

Miah
Senior Member
since 08-26-2002
Posts 1092
Pennsylvania


47 posted 08-26-2003 04:40 PM       View Profile for Miah   Email Miah   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Miah

I was Jokeing Aenimal.  I guess you misunderstood what I was saying.  Anhoo, I still respect your ideas your opinions and your concerens, I hope you find the answers you are looking for.



arrrrgh, and don't delete your posts!!! I hate that.

[This message has been edited by Miah (08-26-2003 04:47 PM).]

Janet Marie
Member Laureate
since 01-22-2000
Posts 18986


48 posted 08-26-2003 04:59 PM       View Profile for Janet Marie   Email Janet Marie   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Janet Marie

Yes Janet thats it exactly, i need perfection..yeeeesh  
=======================

Raph...where on either one of my posts to this did I say you did?
Turn off the attitude and read the replies to this with out being so defensive ...
not everyone on here is arguing with you...
I was trying to get discussion to the idea of how we could acheive what so many say they want here..
sincere honest replies based on the poem not the poet.
Ron has actually discussed an anonymous posting forum.

You brought it up... you can bow out.

free speech aint always free is it?

what ever....

Legion
Member
since 07-20-2003
Posts 82


49 posted 08-26-2003 06:21 PM       View Profile for Legion   Email Legion   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Legion

Janet,

quote:
How many would still be here if it was only about poetry and not the social aspects that come along in time?


I would.  

Thereís a real danger that the social interaction can produce a counterproductive effect when it comes to the poetry being produced and an individualís perception of their poetic abilities. Friends and family (or a family of friends) arenít always the best people to offer frank and honest opinions, their remarks can at times be tainted by the ubiquitous rose coloured spectacles.

An anonymous area where the poets name is hidden until you get to the poem itself wouldnít, in my view, remove the potential for the above danger but it would at least give the poems for poems sake among us a place to call home.

I think what Iím trying to say is that removing the cliques and the cut and paste replies and the banter and all the other stuff from these forums isnít going to work, after all many people may come here because of those things. However that doesnít mean that we canít have a small corner for those like me who donít.

Craig

[This message has been edited by Legion (08-26-2003 06:41 PM).]

 
 Post A Reply Post New Topic   Go to the Next Oldest/Previous Topic Return to Topic Page Go to the Next Newest Topic 
All times are ET (US) Top
  User Options
>> Discussion >> The Alley >> PIP is not perfect   [ Page: 1  2  3  4  5  ] Format for Better Printing EMail to a Friend Not Available
Print Send ECard

 

pipTalk Home Page | Main Poetry Forums

How to Join | Member's Area / Help | Private Library | Search | Contact Us | Today's Topics | Login
Discussion | Tech Talk | Archives | Sanctuary



© Passions in Poetry and netpoets.com 1998-2013
All Poetry and Prose is copyrighted by the individual authors