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Passions in Poetry

The Dixie Chicks

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Local Rebel
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25 posted 04-29-2003 12:28 AM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

Um.. Richard?  You want to get run over by a steam roller??  
WhiteRose
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26 posted 04-29-2003 09:23 AM       View Profile for WhiteRose   Email WhiteRose   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for WhiteRose

I'm glad to see that the other side of the issue didn't get lost in this argument. I participate in a current events forum, and you can't seem to make those people see that expressing distaste for the Dixie Chicks after their remark, boycotting and not buying their CD's, or buying them and then steam rolling them, is NO DIFFERENT than what they themselves did. It's all expressing an opinion, and we aren't being cowardly about it by waiting until we are on foreign shores to do so.

These people must afford us the same rights they so brazenly took advantage of, and I find it insulting that they now take offense at the backlash.

I'm not sure what getting naked was supposed to do for the Dixie Chicks. I suppose it will garner some of the male support back, but I'm not sure what effect it was supposed to have on the female audience who didn't wish to listen to them anymore (with their clothes on).

This issue has been debated to death all over the internet, and the general consensus is always, "They had the right to say what they did". Yes, they did, and now, they also have the right to put up with the backlash, and they ought to just grin and bear it. Life goes on.

That's my 2 cents.

[This message has been edited by WhiteRose (04-29-2003 10:06 AM).]

Opeth
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27 posted 04-29-2003 10:28 AM       View Profile for Opeth   Email Opeth   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Opeth

Whiterose, I see you your two cents and add my own 2 cents.

Well put.

But as Stephen Wright once asked, "How come it's a penny for your thoughts, but you put your two cents in?  Someone is making a penny."

WhiteRose
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28 posted 04-29-2003 11:10 AM       View Profile for WhiteRose   Email WhiteRose   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for WhiteRose

Thank you Opeth. And that's a good question, where does that other penny go?

Maybe we are just being vain in saying "our 2 cents", since a penny is really all our opinion is really worth.

On another note -- if I was dubya I'd invite the Chicks to the White House, have them put on a show and shake their hands afterwards for a big photo op and have the First Lady smiling and telling Natalie how much she loves their music.

I wanted to answer to this comment. Cause I enjoy putting my penny in from time to time.

Perhaps if the Dixie Chicks do get invited to the White House, when the photo op arises, Bush should shed his clothes and have the Dixie Chick remark spray painted on his body. Hey, what's good for one is good for another, right?

Somehow I don't expect to see this happening anytime soon.
Not A Poet
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29 posted 04-29-2003 12:38 PM       View Profile for Not A Poet   Email Not A Poet   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Not A Poet's Home Page   View IP for Not A Poet

Sorry but I don't see the "big powerful president" opposing those poor little girls. Instead I see the big powerful public exercising its own right to free speach.

And all I can say about Tim Robbins' babbling is, an empty wagon always rattles.

morefiah
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30 posted 04-29-2003 01:42 PM       View Profile for morefiah   Email morefiah   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for morefiah

Balladeere, please do not patronize me. It is insulting. I have read the Patriot Act, all 300 odd pages of it. Have you? I have also read a number of analyses of it from respected people in America. Have you? Maybe I should tell you: I try never to talk about something without researching it. The Patriot Act is quite a fearsome document. Maybe YOU should take the time to read it.

I am willing to concede that Robins, actor that he is, might have employed a bit of drama in his speech, but tell me who doesn't. He (actor that he is) may do it more than the average speaker. My opinion of him remains the same. No one has given me sufficient reason to change that. Even empty carts have an important role to play in life: they sometimes carry very important items which otherwise, could not carry themselves. The point is that the cart/wagon is not only of importance when it is being used as a transport.

[This message has been edited by morefiah (04-29-2003 01:45 PM).]

JP
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31 posted 04-29-2003 07:03 PM       View Profile for JP   Email JP   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit JP's Home Page   View IP for JP

Hi.  I'm an American and I am about to exercise my right to free speech:

I support our President.
I support our Nation's decision to go to war with Iraq.
I support our military and our government and feel they did the right thing, at the right time, for the right reasons.

Okay, I'm done - Now you guys who applauded the Chick, Tim Robbins, et al for exercising their right to free speech had darn well better stand up and applaud me for doing it as well.

Yesterday is ash, tomorrow is smoke; only today does the fire burn.
Nil Desperandum, Fata viem invenient

WhiteRose
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32 posted 04-29-2003 08:24 PM       View Profile for WhiteRose   Email WhiteRose   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for WhiteRose



I didn't applaud them, but I will applaud you.

[This message has been edited by WhiteRose (04-29-2003 08:24 PM).]

Balladeer
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33 posted 04-29-2003 08:39 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Morefiah, I have no desire or even time to waste patronizing or insulting you. It's regrettable you took it that way. Yes, I am familiar with Patriot Act....and there is no Patriot Act II or Patriot: The Sequel, which is what I said. There IS a Domestic Security Enhancement Act of 2003 which is still being drafted but at this point it is nothing more than a proposal. Your research should verify that..

...and no, I don't think anyone will be able to give you sufficient reason to change your mind because those are your views, which is of course your right. I, for one, would not think of calling them "shameful".
Local Rebel
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34 posted 04-30-2003 01:02 AM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

I suspect they took their clothes off because they look good naked.
Balladeer
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35 posted 04-30-2003 01:50 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

...not to mention how much they probably got paid for doing so.

Is that Hef on the line?
Local Rebel
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36 posted 04-30-2003 01:03 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

Well hey, I'm with Richard.  And I wouldn't mind being Susan Sarandoned either!

Opeth
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37 posted 05-01-2003 01:42 PM       View Profile for Opeth   Email Opeth   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Opeth

"I suspect they took their clothes off because they look good naked."

~ They don't do nothing for me.
Local Rebel
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38 posted 05-01-2003 02:17 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

Well since you put that in the double negative I'll assume that your DNA is functioning normally.

I just bought every one of their CD's.... heh..
http://www.ew.com/ew/covergallery/0,12924,326612,00.html
Brad
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39 posted 05-04-2003 02:39 AM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

I really hadn't paid much attention to this issue, I don't really known the Dixie chicks and what I did know then and do know now doesn't strike me as my glass of mint julip.

But the BBC ran a quick excerpt from, I don't know, one of those faceless morning American shows (can't tell which is which since Bryan left the Today show), but the excerpt was, not about free speech, but about an apology and not just about an apology, but about the sincerity of the apology.

I think it's very clear that for many "media citizens" a certain responsibility is in order and that has been made very clear here. Say what you want about Michael Moore, but his publicity stunt made the headlines and most likely will make him more money. The Dixie Chicks were doing the same thing.

But, if the damage is done, why worry so much about an apology, or the sincerity of an apology, why push the issue like that except to show (it was Diane or one of those Marie Stewart look alikes) . . .what, that the president shouldn't be criticized, that it was a mistake to criticize the president, that it was an aberrant statement and now the Dixie Chicks are on the path of righteousness?

Without attempting or alluding to any type of moral equivalence here (though no doubt I'll be chastized for doing just that), there is a logic behind Stalinist show trials, Chinese confessions, and Mel Gibson's torture at the end of Braveheart. If one believes they are following the true path, if doubt by it's very nature is not permissible, it becomes absolutely necessary to stamp out all doubt, it must be shown that your enemies see the light as well as you do. It is the ultimate power trip for O'Brian to see Winston finally feel the words, "I love Big Brother."

Okay, so protest away, crush the CD's, talk about responsibility, but don't push someone and question their sincerity. There's just something dirty about that.

Ha, that was fun to write.
Balladeer
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40 posted 05-04-2003 08:56 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

"there is a logic behind Stalinist show trials, Chinese confessions, and Mel Gibson's torture at the end of Braveheart. If one believes they are following the true path, if doubt by it's very nature is not permissible, it becomes absolutely necessary to stamp out all doubt, it must be shown that your enemies see the light as well as you do. "

Yep, I think what you are referring to is what your good friend Ayn Rand refers to as a "moral sanction". It's why captors torture prisoners of war to get them to sign phoney confessions to be shown to people who should know that they were phoney and  signed under torture. The procedure is stupid - and very effective.
Tim
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41 posted 05-04-2003 06:31 PM       View Profile for Tim   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Tim

I doubt the Dixie Chicks would know a political statement if it were painted on their...whooops.. been there, done that..

Mistletoe Angel
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42 posted 05-21-2003 03:19 AM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

I noticed this topic and thought I could add my two cents and also introduce a whole different facet of this discussion as this is something I feel strongly about, being a friend of freedom of speech!

First of all, I highly respect Natalie Maines for what she said, and doing so in London doesn't change a thing. Let's take a look at some of the comments she made with the Chicks on Primetime, shall we?

"At that moment, on the eve of war, I had a lot of questions that I felt were unanswered. I think the way I said it was disrespectful. The wording I used, the way I said it, that was disrespectful. I feel regret for, you know, the choice of words. Am I sorry that I asked questions and that I donít just follow? No."

For many, it would be ridiculous to not have questions before this war. Even if her comment was incoherent or ineffective, there is simply so much speechlessness on the eve of chaos. If you can't have someone who asks all the questions, there certainly isn't enough time to answer all those millions of questions, but if this is how we tolerate the criticisms, that certainly isn't freedom.

"No, Iím not truly embarrassed that, you know, President Bush is from my state, thatís not really what I care about. I felt like there was a lack of compassion every time I saw Bush talking about this. I honestly felt a lack of compassion for people that are questioning this (war), for the people that are about to die for this on both sides."

First of all, let me just say I was heavily against this war from the start, as I fear war will only create more balkanization and unrest in the world in every circumstance, and yes, as inconceivable as it may seem to many, I believe in peace and will stick firmly to that belief as irrational as it may sound to some. And to be honest, I too felt Bush was being quite insensitive to both those who didn't value war and to the troops who possibly would have died in battle, and to their families, many of whom didn't want this war either. Indeed Bush could say the same thing about the Dixie Chicks, ashamed they come from his state, and as ignorant as that remark may sound to some people, it is utterly harmless. It's just like a child's frustration, when an older brother gives a younger brother a hard time growing up and the young brother says to himself, "I wish he was never born!" only to later regret it. And we have witnessed the same effect with Natalie, she regrets how she said what she said but still won't back down in following and being ashamed of what has been done, like a younger and older brother will always disagree with each other on some ters but will settle differences unviolently.

Then you have bandmate Martie Maguire who said she understood why some fans would be upset by the remark but found much of the reaction to be ridiculous:

"Itís the people who have gone overboard, and done such irrational things that take you back to the days of book burning, that is a concern for me. We know some of our fans were shocked and ... upset. I totally understand it. My problem is, when does it cross the line? When is trashing Emilyís property OK? When is writing a threatening letter OK?"

Voltaire used to say "Stand upright, speak thy thoughts, declare The truth thou hast, that all may share; Be bold, proclaim it everywhere: They only live who dare." So many believed once in America that there were never be any such book burnings in the land of freedom and opportunity, and, well, look what we got here. Reminds me of something Eddie Vedder said in the Pearl Jam concert that opened up the Riot Act tour, "We have something called freedom of speech here. Seems we haven't evolved at all in the last 20 years."

I think the Dixie Chicks are true American heroes, and I'll tell you why. It seems so many forgot of exactly how valuable freedom of speech is and they have reminded us all, regardless of who thinks it is dangerous. Take for instance what Bruce Springsteen said in defense.

"The Dixie Chicks have taken a big hit lately for exercising their basic right to express themselves. To me, they're terrific American artists expressing American values by using their American right to free speech. For them to be banished wholesale from radio stations, and even entire radio networks, for speaking out is un-American.

The pressure coming from the government and big business to enforce conformity of thought concerning the war and politics goes against everything that this country is about - namely freedom. Right now, we are supposedly fighting to create freedom in Iraq, at the same time that some are trying to intimidate and punish people for using that same freedom here at home."


If you ask me, there may be huge success in Iraq right now, but here, it is a whole different war altogether.

----------------------------------------------------

Ohhhhhhhhhh...by the way, there is one other facet of this discussion not yet presented, regarding connections to the radio. More specifically...Clear Channel Communications

As some of you may have heard, it was Louisiana's KRMT-FM that organized the public destruction of the Dixie Chicks CD by a 33,000 lb. tractor, one of 42 stations owned by Cumulus Media. Cumulus Media is also known for organizing "Rally For America", fighting against what they believe is "un-American" and pushing away journalists who question their concerns.

Then Clear Channel Communications was questioned, and at first they denied they made word of any massive campaign in stopping the Chicks. But Clear Channel has long been hated for its dominance and in this article, there is mighty curious connections, as said by Paul Krugman from his article:

Clear Channel Has Ties to Bush

Paul Krugman: Behind pro-war protests, a company with ties to Bush Wednesday, March 26, 2003

Channels of influence

NEW YORK: By and large, recent pro-war rallies haven't drawn nearly as many people as anti-war rallies, but they have certainly been vehement.

One of the most striking took place after Natalie Maines, lead singer for the Dixie Chicks, criticized President George W. Bush: A crowd gathered in Louisiana to watch a tractor smash Dixie Chicks CDs, tapes and other paraphernalia. To those familiar with 20th-century history it seemed eerily reminiscent of ... But as Sinclair Lewis said, it can't happen here.

Who has been organizing those pro-war rallies? The answer, it turns out, is that they are being promoted by key players in the radio industry - with close links to the Bush administration.

The CD-smashing rally was organized by KRMD, part of Cumulus Media, a radio chain that has banned the Dixie Chicks from its playlists. Most of the pro-war demonstrations around the United States have, however, been organized by stations owned by Clear Channel Communications, a behemoth based in Texas that controls more than 1,200 stations and increasingly dominates the airwaves.

The company says the demonstrations, which go under the name Rally for America, reflect the initiative of individual stations. But this is unlikely: According to Eric Boehlert, who has written revelatory articles about Clear Channel in the online magazine Salon, the company is notorious - and widely hated - for its iron-fisted centralized control.

Until now, complaints about Clear Channel have focused on its business practices. Critics say it uses its power to squeeze recording companies and artists and contributes to the growing blandness of broadcast music. But now the company appears to be using its clout to help one side in a political dispute that deeply divides the United States.

Why would a media company insert itself into politics this way? It could simply be a matter of personal conviction on the part of management. But there are also good reasons for Clear Channel - which became a giant only in the last few years, after the Telecommunications Act of 1996 removed many restrictions on media ownership - to curry favor with the governing party.

On one side, Clear Channel is feeling some heat: It is being sued over allegations that it threatens to curtail the airplay of artists who don't tour with its concert division, and there are even some politicians who want to roll back the deregulation that made the company's growth possible. On the other side, the Federal Communications Commission is considering further deregulation that would allow Clear Channel to expand even further, particularly into television.

Or perhaps the quid pro quo is more narrowly focused. Experienced Bushologists let out a collective "Aha!" when Clear Channel was revealed to be behind the pro-war rallies, because the company's top management has a history with George W. Bush. The vice chairman of Clear Channel is Tom Hicks. When Bush was governor of Texas, Hicks was chairman of the University of Texas Investment Management Co., called Utimco, and Clear Channel's chairman, Lowry Mays, was on its board. Under Hicks, Utimco placed much of the university's endowment under the management of companies with strong Republican Party or Bush family ties. In 1998 Hicks purchased the Texas Rangers in a deal that made Bush a multimillionaire.

There's something happening here. What it is ain't exactly clear, but a good guess is that we're now seeing the next stage in the evolution of a new American oligarchy. As Jonathan Chait has written in The New Republic, in the Bush administration "government and business have melded into one big 'us.'" On almost every aspect of domestic policy, business interests rule: "Scores of midlevel appointees ... now oversee industries for which they once worked." We should have realized that this is a two-way street: If politicians are busy doing favors for businesses that support them, why shouldn't we expect businesses to reciprocate by doing favors for those politicians - by, for example, organizing "grass roots" rallies on their behalf?

What makes it all possible, of course, is the absence of effective watchdogs. In the Clinton years the merest hint of impropriety quickly blew up into a huge scandal; these days, the scandalmongers are more likely to go after journalists who raise questions. Anyway, don't you know there's a war on?


I'd also like to add that it is a fact that Clear Channel, on September 20, 2001 after 9/11, composed a list of 150 songs they wished not to be played on any of their stations, which many are still not getting played, including John Lennon's "Imagine" and Cat Stevens "Peace Train"

Drowning Pool "Bodies"
Mudvayne "Death Blooms"
Megadeth "Dread and the Fugitive"
Megadeth "Sweating Bullets"
Saliva "Click Click Boom"
P.O.D. "Boom"
Metallica "Seek and Destroy"
Metallica "Harvester or Sorrow"
Metallica "Enter Sandman"
Metallica "Fade to Black"
All Rage Against The Machine songs
Nine Inch Nails "Head Like a Hole"
Godsmack "Bad Religion"
Tool "Intolerance"
Soundgarden "Blow Up the Outside World"
AC/DC "Shot Down in Flames"
AC/DC "Shoot to Thrill"
AC/DC "Dirty Deeds"
AC/DC "Highway to Hell"
AC/DC "Safe in New York City"
AC/DC "TNT"
AC/DC "Hell's Bells"
Black Sabbath "War Pigs"
Black Sabbath "Sabbath Bloody Sabbath"
Black Sabbath "Suicide Solution"
Dio "Holy Diver"
Steve Miller "Jet Airliner"
Van Halen "Jump"
Queen "Another One Bites the Dust"
Queen "Killer Queen"
Pat Benatar "Hit Me with Your Best Shot"
Pat Benatar "Love is a Battlefield"
Oingo Boingo "Dead Man's Party"
REM "It's the End of the World as We Know It"
Talking Heads "Burning Down the House"
Judas Priest "Some Heads Are Gonna Roll"
Pink Floyd "Run Like Hell"
Pink Floyd "Mother"
Savage Garden "Crash and Burn"
Dave Matthews Band "Crash Into Me"
Bangles "Walk Like an Egyptian"
Pretenders "My City Was Gone"
Alanis Morissette "Ironic"
Barenaked Ladies "Falling for the First Time"
Fuel "Bad Day"
John Parr "St. Elmo's Fire"
Peter Gabriel "When You're Falling"
Kansas "Dust in the Wind"
Led Zeppelin "Stairway to Heaven"
The Beatles "A Day in the Life"
The Beatles "Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds"
The Beatles "Ticket To Ride"
The Beatles "Obla Di, Obla Da"
Bob Dylan/Guns N Roses "Knockin' on Heaven's Door"
Arthur Brown "Fire"
Blue Oyster Cult "Burnin' For You"
Paul McCartney and Wings "Live and Let Die"
Jimmy Hendrix "Hey Joe"
Jackson Brown "Doctor My Eyes"
John Mellencamp "Crumbling Down"
John Mellencamp "I'm On Fire"
U2 "Sunday Bloody Sunday"
Boston "Smokin"
Billy Joel "Only the Good Die Young"
Barry McGuire "Eve of Destruction"
Steam "Na Na Na Na Hey Hey"
Drifters "On Broadway"
Shelly Fabares "Johnny Angel"
Los Bravos "Black is Black"
Peter and Gordon "I Go To Pieces"
Peter and Gordon "A World Without Love"
Elvis "(You're the) Devil in Disguise"
Zombies "She's Not There"
Elton John "Benny & The Jets"
Elton John "Daniel"
Elton John "Rocket Man"
Jerry Lee Lewis "Great Balls of Fire"
Santana "Evil Ways"
Louis Armstrong "What A Wonderful World"
Youngbloods "Get Together"
Ad Libs "The Boy from New York City"
Peter Paul and Mary "Blowin' in the Wind"
Peter Paul and Mary "Leavin' on a Jet Plane"
Rolling Stones "Ruby Tuesday"
Simon And Garfunkel "Bridge Over Troubled Water"
Happenings "See You in Septemeber"
Carole King "I Feel the Earth Move"
Yager and Evans "In the Year 2525"
Norman Greenbaum "Spirit in the Sky"
Brooklyn Bridge "Worst That Could Happen"
Three Degrees "When Will I See You Again"
Cat Stevens "Peace Train"
Cat Stevens "Morning Has Broken"
Jan and Dean "Dead Man's Curve"
Martha & the Vandellas "Nowhere to Run"
Martha and the Vandellas/Van Halen "Dancing in the Streets"
Hollies "He Ain't Heavy, He's My Brother"
San Cooke Herman Hermits, "Wonder World"
Petula Clark "A Sign of the Times"
Don McLean "American Pie"
J. Frank Wilson "Last Kiss"
Buddy Holly and the Crickets "That'll Be the Day"
John Lennon "Imagine"
Bobby Darin "Mack the Knife"
The Clash "Rock the Casbah"
Surfaris "Wipeout"
Blood Sweat and Tears "And When I Die"
Dave Clark Five "Bits and Pieces"
Tramps "Disco Inferno"
Paper Lace "The Night Chicago Died"
Frank Sinatra "New York, New York"
Creedence Clearwater Revival "Travelin' Band"
The Gap Band "You Dropped a Bomb On Me"
Alien Ant Farm "Smooth Criminal"
3 Doors Down "Duck and Run"
The Doors "The End"
Third Eye Blind "Jumper"
Neil Diamond "America"
Lenny Kravitz "Fly Away"
Tom Petty "Free Fallin'"
Bruce Springsteen "I'm On Fire"
Bruce Springsteen "Goin' Down"
Phil Collins "In the Air Tonight"
Alice in Chains "Rooster"
Alice in Chains "Sea of Sorrow"
Alice in Chains "Down in a Hole"
Alice in Chains "Them Bone"
Beastie Boys "Sure Shot"
Beastie Boys "Sabotage"
The Cult "Fire Woman"
Everclear "Santa Monica"
Filter "Hey Man, Nice Shot"
Foo Fighters "Learn to Fly"
Korn "Falling Away From Me"
Red Hot Chili Peppers "Aeroplane"
Red Hot Chili Peppers "Under the Bridge"
Smashing Pumpkins "Bullet With Butterfly Wings"
System of a Down "Chop Suey!"
Skeeter Davis "End of the World"
Rickey Nelson "Travelin' Man"
Chi-Lites "Have You Seen Her"
Animals "We Gotta Get Out of This Place"
Fontella Bass "Rescue Me"
Mitch Ryder and the Detroit Wheels "Devil with the Blue Dress"
James Taylor "Fire and Rain"
Edwin Starr/Bruce Springstein "War"
Lynyrd Skynyrd "Tuesday's Gone"
Limp Bizkit "Break Stuff"
Green Day "Brain Stew"
Temple of the Dog "Say Hello to Heaven"
Sugar Ray "Fly"
Local H "Bound for the Floor"
Slipknot "Left Behind, Wait and Bleed"
Bush "Speed Kills"
311 "Down"
Stone Temple Pilots "Big Bang Baby," Dead and Bloated"
Soundgarden "Fell on Black Days," Black Hole Sun"
Nina "99 Luft Balloons/99 Red Balloons"


That just makes me angry seeing this burgeoning list! How about that, a radio free of "Imagine" but songs like "The Thong Song" and "Hot in Herre" being favorites! Makes me want to scream! And here we have Tom petty, Jackson Browne, and many more trying to stop the FCC from further deregulating radio but it is all going the opposite direction, and before you know it, we are all one...huge...oligarchy!

I'll leave now by quoting Edward R. Murrow: "No one can terrorize a whole nation, unless we are all his accomplices."

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton


Underneath your clothes, there's an endless story

***Shakira***


[This message has been edited by Mistletoe Angel (05-21-2003 03:27 AM).]

JP
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since 05-25-99
Posts 1391
Loomis, CA


43 posted 05-21-2003 03:56 AM       View Profile for JP   Email JP   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit JP's Home Page   View IP for JP

So the Chicks are hero's for exercising thier right to free speech, but those who disagree with what they said are wrong for expressing thier displeasure?  Does not the right to free speech apply to them or Clear Channel Comm?  They own the radio stations, their right to free speech should include their right to ban whatever they want to on their stations shouldn't it?

I'm getting so confused these days.  Who has a right to say what they want to say?  Who should be ashamed for what they say?  Who should be supported and who should be condemned for saying what they want to say?  Somebody clue me in becasue this is way to deep for me...

Yesterday is ash, tomorrow is smoke; only today does the fire burn.
Nil Desperandum, Fata viem invenient

Opeth
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The Ravines


44 posted 05-21-2003 07:35 AM       View Profile for Opeth   Email Opeth   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Opeth

The KISS philosophy works well here...

1. A Dixie Chick makes derogatory comments about her president while overseas during a wartime environment.

2. The people who purchase Dixie Chick music and some of the radio stations (owned by people who can also express their freedom) decide to boycott the chicks.

3. In an attempt to boister their suddenly half-full money pockets....The Chicks scramble for publicity and try to "untarnish" their image as viewed by their fan-base.


Now, I ask....

What the hell does all this have to do with not having the right to freedom of speech?

Not a damn thing.

KISS.

[This message has been edited by Opeth (05-21-2003 07:36 AM).]

Mistletoe Angel
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45 posted 05-21-2003 12:00 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

Yes, the detractors too have a right to say what they say, but there is one huge noticeable contrast: Natalie Maines was able to get a hold of herself and only state her opinion as harsh as it may have sounded to some, and those who detracted her got violent and smashed her property, threatened to tie Natalie to a rocket and drop her over Baghdad, threw trash on Emily's property who didn't even say anything, etc. Unless I am unaware that "freedom of action" is also written in the constitution, this is very depressing, and if we do have freedom that is capable of such violence, then no one will ever be safe.

And I think you are failing to understand Clear Channel is not owned by a whole bunch of people, it is operated by a few people, such as Tom Hicks and Lowry Mays, who have long been incorporated with the Bush administration.

Sure, if Clear Channel's individual station owners got to decide what they wanted to play, that is fine with me and I wouldn't be bothered if they didn't play the Chicks, John Lennon, Cat Stevens, etc. But the fact is, Clear Channel's homebase in Austin, Texas decides what it wants all 1,200 of its stations to play, and they penalize stations they own who do not follow the guidelines. Tell me, is that freedom?

And you call Natalie Maine's choice of words derogatory? Tell me, if what she said was disparaging to you then why did the controversy spread like brushfire? When all a sudden is the standard or expectation the uniform way to go? That's a question I have!

As for the Chicks attempting to "untarnish" their image, I think that is the only mistake they have made. I wouldn't care less about their cover of Entertainment Weekly or their promoting to improve sales dips, but I didn't think they had any reason for apologize! That has nothing to do with freedom of speech there, but the issue is tattooed at the heart of the matter!

Oh, by the way, let me say long before the controversy, I owned the Marshall Tucker Band's greatest hits CD. When I heard they were headlining the anti-Chicks concert in Athens, Georgia, I did a humane thing and instead of crushing their CD I sold it and with the money bought a Dixie Chicks CD in return!

Sincerely,
Noah Eaton


Underneath your clothes, there's an endless story

***Shakira***


[This message has been edited by Mistletoe Angel (05-21-2003 12:08 PM).]

Opeth
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The Ravines


46 posted 05-21-2003 12:31 PM       View Profile for Opeth   Email Opeth   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Opeth

"Yes, the detractors too have a right to say what they say, but there is one huge noticeable contrast: Natalie Maines was able to get a hold of herself and only state her opinion as harsh as it may have sounded to some, and those who detracted her got violent and smashed her property, threatened to tie Natalie to a rocket and drop her over Baghdad, threw trash on Emily's property who didn't even say anything, etc."

~ An all too common mistake - mixing of issues. I don't believe every person who disagreed with Natalie smashed her property and threatened her, which of course is a different issue and is, of course, wrong.

But if you are to "take this path" I could easily provide examples of smashing and threatening of others by those who are anti-Bush.

" And I think you are failing to understand Clear Channel is not owned by a whole bunch of people, it is operated by a few people, such as Tom Hicks and Lowry Mays, who have long been incorporated with the Bush administration."

~ Those people who own Clear Channel have every right not to play what they don't want to play. If the people who owned Clear Channel were pro-Clinton and ant-war - they could choose not to play the opposite song listing of what you gave.

This is America. This is an example of exercising freedom.

If you had the money to start your own Radio Broadcasting company, then you would have every right to play or not play what you desire.

So, to answer your question - Yes, it is freedom.

" And you call Natalie Maine's choice of words derogatory?"

~ No. I don't. Her fan-base and others who believe differently call what she has said, "derogatory."

"Tell me, if what she said was disparaging to you then why did the controversy spread like brushfire? When all a sudden is the standard or expectation the uniform way to go? That's a question I have!"

~ I have no idea what you mean here.

"...but I didn't think they had any reason for apologize!"

~ Obviously, they did. I believe is it called, knowing who puts money in your pockets.

"Oh, by the way, let me say long before the controversy, I owned the Marshall Tucker Band's greatest hits CD. When I heard they were headlining the anti-Chicks concert in Athens, Georgia, I did a humane thing and instead of crushing their CD I sold it and with the money bought a Dixie Chicks CD in return!"

~ Well...there you go, Noah. You exercised your freedom with that action, just as others have also exercised...be it small or large.


[This message has been edited by Opeth (05-21-2003 12:32 PM).]

Mistletoe Angel
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47 posted 05-21-2003 12:37 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel



Thanks for your response Opeth, I appreciate your feedback!

This is indeed a very interesting discussion and I certainly others respond too!



Love,
Noah Eaton

Underneath your clothes, there's an endless story

***Shakira***

morefiah
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since 03-26-2003
Posts 156
Spanish Town, Jamaica


48 posted 05-22-2003 09:40 AM       View Profile for morefiah   Email morefiah   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for morefiah

All I have to say is: The world is getting real scary.... bad grammar I know but it works. I have been having a sense of impending doom since 9/11 and all that has happened since then has only served to heighten it. These days, I just watch world/US events with a growing sense of horror at the slide that we all seem to be on, into a pit of chaos. Regardless of which side one is on, there needs to be some cool heads who have an interest in turning away from what we seem to be becoming. Unfortunately, there does not seem to be enough of those around with the clout required.

God, it is depressing!
Opeth
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since 12-13-2001
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The Ravines


49 posted 05-22-2003 10:02 AM       View Profile for Opeth   Email Opeth   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Opeth

"Regardless of which side one is on, there needs to be some cool heads who have an interest in turning away from what we seem to be becoming."

~ What do you think we are becoming?
 
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