Let’s start from the top…
My original statement that made caused you to err in a retort
“If I were The Creator, I surely would not have a need to be praised by those whom I created. There would be no purpose for it, except for a sheer craving for attention.
“Any parent who says they don't want their children to love them is either lying or in need of serious psychological help. Such a desire is not selfish or egotistical, but is born instead of the unconditional love any good parent feels for their children.
~ And so, I ask how does one go on a rebuttal about “parents who say they don’t want their children to love them” out of my original statement about a Creator needing praise? You have yet to successfully answer that question. Your rebuttal just doesn’t make sense with regards to my original statement, unless one mistakenly reads “praise” as “love.”
You further stated)
”A parent should very much want their child to love them, not because it bolsters parental ego, but because it is the most important thing a mom or dad will ever teach their kid.”
~ You make a definite link between the phrase “bolsters parental ego” and my “sheer craving for attention.” And by doing so you have mistakenly equated praise to love.
”Really Ron. I do believe you should refrain from discussing issues with me because doing so clogs your sense of perception. Which "any parent" are you talking about? Certainly not me.
Since when does praise = love?
I don't need my children to praise my name. I don't need my children to play harps at my feet. I don't need my children to give me glory. That has nothing...listen Ron...nothing to do with expressing and teaching about giving LOVE.”
(To which you replied)
“Where in my post do I mention praise, harps, or glory? Those are presumably your concepts of divine love, not mine.”
~ Talk about twisting words, you lost track of what was said. It is not my concept of divine love, it is most likely yours and other Christians. You equated praise to learning how to love God…remember?
“Learning how to love God isn't for His benefit. It's for ours.
~ I believe a Creator wouldn’t want his creations to go around praising Him (or Her), just like I wouldn’t want my children praising me.
“Praise and love are not equivalent terms, Opeth, but neither are they necessarily separate and unrelated.”
~ True. However, you took a statement of mine that dealt with “praise” and immediately retorted by this…
“Any parent who says they don't want their children to love them is either lying or in need of serious psychological help.”
~ Again, I ask you…how do you relate “Any parent who says…” to my original statement? To say I am being defensive is ridiculous. Two people are in a room, one says that god doesn’t need to be praised, the other person immediately says to that person, “Any parent…” What is the other person to think? P-lease. Your answers may fool others, but certainly not me.
“You have repeatedly used phrases alluding to praise, playing harps, giving glory, and singing at the feet of Jesus. Your tone seems to be one of mockery, but maybe that really is your interpretation of the Bible. Doesn't matter.”
~ It is out of common sense. A Creator so powerful to create the universe would want people to play harps at his/her feet? This Creator would want people to sing and praise his/her name…for eternity? I don’t know about you, but I would be sick and tired of praising the Creator in about a week.
”You claimed that the only purpose behind praise was a "sheer craving for attention." I used a close analogy to show that wanting something from others, in the example I gave, love, wasn't necessarily as selfishly motivated as you concluded. That one went over your head,”
~ Your analogy doesn’t work, Ron. It doesn’t work with my original statement. What went over your head was your common sense when you allowed your personal bias towards me enable you to “jump the gun” when retorting. The subject of your analogy was about “love.” The subject of my original statement was about “praise.”
Result, bad analogy, concocted out of a personal bias. Try again.
and I didn't even sigh.
[This message has been edited by Opeth (04-29-2003 01:03 PM).]