How to Join Member's Area Private Library Search Today's Topics p Login
Main Forums Discussion Tech Talk Mature Content Archives
   Nav Win
 Discussion
 The Alley
 Bush bashing & warmongering   [ Page: 1  2  3  4  ]
 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74
Follow us on Facebook

 Moderated by: Ron   (Admins )

 
User Options
Format for Better Printing EMail to a Friend Not Available
Admin Print Send ECard
Passions in Poetry

Bush bashing & warmongering

 Post A Reply Post New Topic   Go to the Next Oldest/Previous Topic Return to Topic Page Go to the Next Newest Topic 
hush
Senior Member
since 05-27-2001
Posts 1693
Ohio, USA


50 posted 03-11-2003 12:59 AM       View Profile for hush   Email hush   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for hush

Balladeer-

I'm not a particularly religous person, and the word evil has particularly religious connotations. In my opinion, calling Saddam evil is akin to Osama bin Laden calling Bush an infidel.

Aside from that, though, I have other problems with the word. First of all, it polarizes completely. I'm not going to beat a dead horse, Ron made the point I wanted to make, and more clearly. Second of all, it's being touted as a catch-all justification for hatred of the "evildoers." Am I the only one who's noticed Bush basically admitting (bragging?) to our nation killing "suspected" terrorists in his recent speeches? The most notable one was at a Floriday naval base a few weeks ago, in fact I was going to start a thread about it but I couldn't find a transcript to quote from. Anyway, we have "arrested, or otherwise taken care of" them. Let him put it this way, "they won't be bothering us anymore."

But, they're evil. They don't deserve trials to prove whether or not they are actual terrorists, our suspicion is enough.

Can I explain a child molester's mind? A serial killer's? No... but it's something I'd like to try to do. I think most people are afraid to try to understand someone who is "evil." I think something you said supports my point:

'Other than that, it would be like my trying to discover how the mind of a child molestor works. How could I, not being able to relate to that type of mind? How could anyone? You want to find someone who can understand Hussein? Try Caligula or Stalin or Mao Tse Tung or someone who has walked in those shoes. They would understand him perfectly.'

We cannot understand the evil mind. They (fellow evildoers) can.

You're splitting people up into two groups (good and bad) and I think that's dangerous. The problem with that type of dualism is that we can never be different side by side... someone will always come out on top... look at these groups and think, historically, who has come out on top:

Men and Women
White and Colored
Wealthy and Poor
Educated and Uneducated

Good and Evil

We aren't two different species... believew it or not, you have something in common with Saddam, just as I have something in common with you. Everyone has a favorite food, a favorite color, movies, songs, and books that they like... it's part of what makes us human. I'm sure Saddam doesn't just sit in a dark room, tapping his fingers together Montgomery Burns style, diabolocally planning his next evil move... I read somewhere that he likes to swim. Hey, you know what? I like to swim too. There you go... I can relate to Saddam. I'm not ashamed, or afraid, to say that.

However, I think there's a pretty rampant fear right now of being called unAmerican, and my point of view is not a popular one at family functions.

I feel like I'm digressing, it's late and I'm tired, so I'm leaving it at that.

Winston- go back, read my post. I said what I meant, and actually, you'll notice that your use of quotation marks was much more copious than mine. I got your message... what's good for the goose ain't good for the gander?

Other people argued the second part of your strange approximation to a syllogism. I am arguing the foundation you are using. Your argument doesn't work- if your first argument is incorrect, your scond one is irrelevant.

By the way, I'm guessing by your quote and your point of viwe that you've been reading Micheal Moore? Correct me if I'm wrong.. but I really does sound like you're kind of parroting him. While I like the guy, I really do, and his argument about the Florida polls is very convincing... I don't necessarily consider it totally valid. Now, I also don't have time to check up on the references he listed... I think it's a definite possibility, based both upon the information he gives and my recognition of his personal, extremely liberal agenda...
Local Rebel
Member Ascendant
since 12-21-1999
Posts 5742
Southern Abstentia


51 posted 03-11-2003 12:58 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

There is a Confucian parable that goes something like this:

"Master, what does it say of a man that all men like him?" the student asked.

The master said, "That does not say enough.  It says enough that the good people like him, and the bad do not."

This kind of dualism is very important to civilization  -- try to de-religion it.  

Good is what edifies culture and civilization -- ultimately peace and prosperity.

If you think of it in those terms instead of a bearded omniscient God and a horny devil it will become clearer.
Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


52 posted 03-11-2003 02:26 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Sorry, hush, I cannot accept your examples at all...which is ok because we are both entitled to our own way of thinking but I can see it will do no good to go on beating around (or on top of the head of) the Bush.

You feel it is dangerous to classify as good and evil. I say it is more dangerous not to recognize evil. So be it....
JP
Senior Member
since 05-25-99
Posts 1391
Loomis, CA


53 posted 03-11-2003 09:14 PM       View Profile for JP   Email JP   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit JP's Home Page   View IP for JP

Brad, well said.

Facts are facts, or they would be called 'maybe a fact'.  What seems to be the true topic is our interpretation of the facts, our POV when considering or ignoring the facts, our wishes of what the facts really should be, and our absolute confusion when trying to decide the best course of action when considering the facts.

War sucks.  Killing people really sucks, getting killed sucks almost as much as killing someone else. The whole mess is reprehensible and a terrible, terrible burdon to bear.  But the fact is:  Something is going to happen, most likely something horrid and soulcrushing.  THAT is the fact we need to concern ourselves with.  What do we do when events go where they will go?  How do we love and support each other, our nation, our neighbors, our leaders, ourselves when the insanity of man bares is frightening head?

Will we sleep better at night when our sons, daughters, brothers, sisters, fathers and mothers are embroiled in combat, if we blame someone for that combat?  Will it help our hearts to curse the name of President Bush, or Saddam Hussein?

I know it will not help me feel better.  I do not like what I believe in my heart will and should happen.  I will have to deal with that within myself, as will we all.  Mr. Bush will have to deal with his demons as well (as I am sure he is doing nightly already), but he has my support, as my President, as a man whom I believe is doing what he thinks is right.  He knows he will not get reelected, he knows he will not 'get free oil', he knows that this war will damage him politically, so I cannot believe he is being a warmonger (warmongers live for the battle and the gain from war - he will not fight and the only gain is security from a madman).  The way I 'know' these things is because I am a man, a human being, and a citizen of the United States.  If I recognize the politcal suicide in this affair then surely he and his many aides recognize it as well.

Okay, I've run out of steam, my heart hurts, my head hurts, and my spirit is crying for what will and must come to pass.

Yesterday is ash, tomorrow is smoke; only today does the fire burn.
Nil Desperandum, Fata viem invenient

Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


54 posted 03-11-2003 09:49 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Very well said, JP. I salute your love of country and dedication. Here is a letter from another soldier which voices many feelings I have, also...


I sat in a movie theater watching "Schindler's List," asked myself, "Why didn't the Jews fight back?"

Now I know why.

I sat in a movie theater, watching "Pearl Harbor" and asked myself, "Why weren't we prepared?"

Now I know why.

Civilized people cannot fathom, much less predict, the actions of evil people.

On September 11, dozens of capable airplane passengers allowed themselves to be overpowered by a handful of poorly armed terrorists because they did not comprehend the depth of hatred that motivated their captors.

On September 11, thousands of innocent people were murdered because too many Americans naively reject the reality that some nations are dedicated to the dominance of others. Many political pundits, pacifists and media personnel want us to forget the carnage. They say we must focus on the bravery of the rescuers and ignore the cowardice of the killers. They implore us to understand the motivation of the perpetrators. Major television stations have announced they will assist the healing process by not replaying devastating footage of the planes crashing into the Twin Towers.

I will not be manipulated.

I will not pretend to understand.

I will not forget.

I will not forget the liberal media who abused freedom of the press to kick our country when it was vulnerable and hurting.

I will not forget that CBS anchor Dan Rather preceded President Bush's address to the nation with the snide remark, "No matter how you feel about him, he is still our president."

I will not forget that ABC TV anchor Peter Jennings questioned President Bush's motives for not returning immediately to Washington, DC and commented, "We're all pretty skeptical and cynical about Washington."

And I will not forget that ABC's Mark Halperin warned if reporters weren't informed of every little detail of this war, they aren't "likely -- nor should they be expected -- to show deference."

I will not isolate myself from my fellow Americans by pretending an attack on the USS Cole in Yemen was not an attack on the United States of America.

I will not forget the Clinton administration equipped Islamic terrorists and their supporters with the world's most sophisticated telecommunications equipment and encryption technology, thereby compromising America's ability to trace terrorist radio, cell phone, land lines, faxes and modem communications.

I will not be appeased with pointless, quick retaliatory strikes like those perfected by the previous administration.

I will not be comforted by "feel-good, do nothing" regulations like the silly "Have your bags been under your control?" question at the airport.

I will not be influenced by so-called, "antiwar demonstrators" who exploit the right of _expression to chant anti-American obscenities.

I will not forget the moral victory handed the North Vietnamese by American war protesters who reviled and spat upon the returning soldiers, airmen, sailors and Marines.

I will not be softened by the wishful thinking of pacifists who chose reassurance over reality.

I will embrace the wise words of Prime Minister Tony Blair who told Labor Party conference, "They have no moral inhibition on the slaughter of the innocent. If they could have murdered not 7,000 but 70,000, does anyone doubt they would have done so and rejoiced in it?"

There is no compromise possible with such people, no meeting of minds, no point of understanding with such terror. Just a choice: defeat it or be defeated by it. And defeat it we must!

I will force myself to:
                                 -hear the weeping
             -feel the helplessness
                             -imagine the terror
                                 -sense the panic
                                 -smell the burning flesh
-experience the loss
                                 -remember the hatred.

I sat in a movie theater, watching "Private Ryan" and asked myself, "Where did they find the courage?"

Now I know.

We have no choice. Living without liberty is not living.

-- Ed Evans, MGySgt., USMC (Ret.)
Not as lean, Not as mean, But still a Marine.
Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 05-19-99
Posts 9708
Michigan, US


55 posted 03-11-2003 10:33 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

I'm reluctant to disagree with someone not here to defend themselves, which is just one of the reasons we prefer to post our own words and not those of others, but frankly, a letter like that makes me ashamed to be a former Marine. Have people completely stopped thinking?

Forget the histrionics and oh-so-emotional drama. I can ignore rhetoric with the best of them. But the contradictions in this letter just befuddle me.

If someone disagrees with Bush, they are liberals disabusing their freedoms or just being snide. The inference is that *real* Americans would never do such a thing.

But the very same writer turns around and accuses another President of treason. And then, "I will not be appeased with pointless, quick retaliatory strikes like those perfected by the previous administration."

I guess consistency is a little too much to expect. Either good, patriotic Americans are allowed to criticize their politicians -- ALL their politicians -- or they're not. You don't get to have it both ways.

Seriously. Have people completely stopped thinking?
Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


56 posted 03-11-2003 11:08 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

I think they have, Ron. Emotions take over and logic and rationality seem to be the first casualities....
Opeth
Member Elite
since 12-13-2001
Posts 2224
The Ravines


57 posted 03-12-2003 08:26 AM       View Profile for Opeth   Email Opeth   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Opeth

"If someone disagrees with Bush, they are liberals disabusing their freedoms or just being snide. The inference is that *real* Americans would never do such a thing.

But the very same writer turns around and accuses another President of treason. And then, "I will not be appeased with pointless, quick retaliatory strikes like those perfected by the previous administration."


~ Non-sequitur. You are mixing two issue together. Clinton did sell various technologies to our enemies, but the writer didn't "bash" him with idiotic and pure emotional dribble derived from unfounded half-cocked opinions appearing as concrete facts, such as many liberals who oppose the war have "bashed" the president.

And the media quips qouted are also facts.

If you can't see the difference, then it is because your mind prevents you from seeing.

[This message has been edited by Opeth (03-12-2003 09:20 AM).]

Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 05-19-99
Posts 9708
Michigan, US


58 posted 03-12-2003 08:44 AM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

There's nothing wrong with emotion. It's who we are. Our passions, more than any other thing, define the uniqueness of our lives. But reason should be what we are and serve to separate us from the animals.

Name-calling is usually a sign of frustration. It's really tough right now to argue that Bush is wrong, and without a crystal ball it's impossible to prove he's wrong, but it takes very little effort to call him a warmongering idiot. Those who attack their opponents are pretty much admitting they can no longer argue the issues. They may not recognize their defeat, but they've already lost the battle.

But that has to work both ways. Implications that people are somehow unpatriotic because they question the policies of their government simply constitute a different kind of name-calling. It's emotional blackmail. "If you don't agree with us, you must be a lousy American."

In a country that was founded on political dissidence, bashing government figures is as American as apple pie and baseball, and far more important than either. Those who would have us follow our leaders blindly, without thinking for ourselves, are the ones who should probably question their patriotism. Because what they suggest sure isn't the America I love and honor.
winston
Member
since 12-19-2002
Posts 213
NW of Eden


59 posted 03-12-2003 09:10 AM       View Profile for winston   Email winston   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for winston

darling Denise, honestly, you haven't asked a straight question. There are some people, in various parts of America, who would rather use "roach" instead of "cockroach." Are we to speak of the latter party's impudicity just because they enounce the entire word? If you wish to discuss this at length, over a cup of ice coffee, here's my address, 123 West 44th Street, I also live in 2387 Mountain Highway, Vancouver.  


The current political situation in our nation reminds me of what certain people went thro' during McCarthy's time in office.

As a very concerned tax payer I don't think I should answer to anybody where my nationality is brought to doubt.

hush has a point in saying that critical and individualistic thinking is considered "unAmerican" or "anti-American". Since when? The America that I know, and the America my father and grandfather fought for, the America that my cousin died for in the last Gulf war, was founded on critical and individualistic thinking that got us our independence from Europe and in particular the British Empire.

Balladeer, thank you for thinking that am sincere and dignified. Your political views, as it is peacefully expressed here, shouldn't deter us from mutual respect.

Big Brother Ron, as I have got prone to calling you, I do like the way you think, not least because of your Iowa remark. Now I ask you, what did the folks of Iowa do to you?

It's amazing I won. I was running against peace, prosperity, & incumbency.
--G. "DUBYA" BUSH. June 14, 2001. Unaware of rolling TV camera.

Opeth
Member Elite
since 12-13-2001
Posts 2224
The Ravines


60 posted 03-12-2003 09:21 AM       View Profile for Opeth   Email Opeth   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Opeth

"The current political situation in our nation reminds me of what certain people went thro' during McCarthy's time in office."

~ Not even close for many reasons which are so obvious, I won't even bother to list them.
Opeth
Member Elite
since 12-13-2001
Posts 2224
The Ravines


61 posted 03-12-2003 09:31 AM       View Profile for Opeth   Email Opeth   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Opeth

"There's nothing wrong with emotion. It's who we are. Our passions, more than any other thing, define the uniqueness of our lives. But reason should be what we are and serve to separate us from the animals."

~ We should refrain from reasoning when the reasoning is based on emotion and not logic. Otherwise, I agree.

"Name-calling is usually a sign of frustration. It's really tough right now to argue that Bush is wrong, and without a crystal ball it's impossible to prove he's wrong, but it takes very little effort to call him a warmongering idiot. Those who attack their opponents are pretty much admitting they can no longer argue the issues. They may not recognize their defeat, but they've already lost the battle."

~ I agree 100%  Ad hominem pseudoreasoning in its many forms is the recognition of defeat by those who use it. And from all that I have witnessed in dealing with the isssue of war with Iraq, I must say, that those who are opposed to war have utilized this fallacy the most...and by far.

"But that has to work both ways. Implications that people are somehow unpatriotic because they question the policies of their government simply constitute a different kind of name-calling. It's emotional blackmail. "If you don't agree with us, you must be a lousy American."

~ I believe every American has the right to protest, in a peaceful manner of course, however, I can still say that they are wrong when their reasons for protest are based on ad hominem attacks and not rational thoughts of why they believe in what they believe.

However, those Americans who leave this country to protest against our country on foreign soil ~ that to me is a slap in the face to all who fought and died for this country and should not be a "right." Those protesters should be either prosecuted or expelled from this country.

"In a country that was founded on political dissidence, bashing government figures is as American as apple pie and baseball, and far more important than either. Those who would have us follow our leaders blindly, without thinking for ourselves, are the ones who should probably question their patriotism. Because what they suggest sure isn't the America I love and honor."

~ I agree 100%
Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


62 posted 03-12-2003 10:08 AM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

quote:
However, those Americans who leave this country to protest against our country on foreign soil ~ that to me is a slap in the face to all who fought and died for this country and should not be a "right." Those protesters should be either prosecuted or expelled from this country.


What does that mean? I am allowed the freedom to speak in South Korea but not America?

What world do you live in?
Opeth
Member Elite
since 12-13-2001
Posts 2224
The Ravines


63 posted 03-12-2003 10:25 AM       View Profile for Opeth   Email Opeth   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Opeth

"What world do you live in?"

~ There is only one possible world in which humans can live, if you know of another, please do tell.

"What does that mean? I am allowed the freedom to speak in South Korea but not America?"

~ It means this - if Americans go over seas, to other countries, and organize demonstrations that are anti-U.S. government, especially if those Americans are in Iraq at this time organizing these types of demonstrations, then they should either be jailed or deported. Now, do you understand?

What world do you live in?
Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


64 posted 03-12-2003 11:28 AM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Opeth,
Given your statements, I no longer believe in the American military. My family is my family and I will kill anyone, North or South Korean, American or Russian, who dare touch what I hold dear.

If Obeth is right, then America is wrong.

Opeth
Member Elite
since 12-13-2001
Posts 2224
The Ravines


65 posted 03-12-2003 11:34 AM       View Profile for Opeth   Email Opeth   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Opeth

I have no idea what you mean by what you just posted.
Sudhir Iyer
Member Rara Avis
since 04-26-2000
Posts 7206
Mumbai, India : now in Belgium


66 posted 03-12-2003 11:55 AM       View Profile for Sudhir Iyer   Email Sudhir Iyer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Sudhir Iyer

Maybe this is off-topic... but then...

---------
Opeth says:

However, those Americans who leave this country to protest against our country on foreign soil ~ that to me is a slap in the face to all who fought and died for this country and should not be a "right." Those protesters should be either prosecuted or expelled from this country.

And this is how I read it:

However, those Americans who leave this country (USA) to protest against our (the ones living in USA) country on foreign (NOT USA) soil ~ that to me is a slap in the face to all who fought and died for this country(USA) and should not be a "right." Those protesters should be either prosecuted or expelled from this country(USA).

This could mean in Opeth’s stated opinion is that these Americans (who gave up USA for protesting), should be expelled (thus made non-Americans) or be prosecuted (under American laws?)


Then I read the next response of Opeth:

It means this - if Americans go over seas, to other countries(not USA), and organize demonstrations that are anti-U.S. government, especially if those Americans are in Iraq at this time organizing these types of demonstrations, then they should either be jailed or deported. Now, do you understand?

---------

Now who should jail them? Or where should they be deported to?
Jailed in Iraq; or Deported to USA OR Jailed in USA, or Deported to Iraq


I see the two statements being quite contradictory… I hope my point is clear...

---------

Moreover, I do not think that "protesting against a government (and hence directed to the political party in power) is a protest against the country."

---------

I also wonder why would Americans need to go out of America to protest against the US govt. so that their voices are heard by the US govt....

Does the US govt. prefer not to hear these voices from within the country except during election preparations etc.

Or are these voices being persecuted; that is definitely not the USA that I have heard about.

But then I am not American; but I will most definitely be affected very adversely by the war.

I am not here to debate the morality or legality of this or any other war; just to say that I did not understand the text.

And just for the sake of mentioning: Long before the most unfortunate 11 september tragedy; around the time when the elections results of Bush being the president came out; most Europeans had openly begun counting down the days when the Bush led US govt. would try to find a reason to attack Iraq.

It would have happened earlier; but most unfortunately 9/11 tragedy happened; that was a personal setback for Bush too, since he had a new issue at hand and couldn't yet look towards Iraq. However, once the Afghan operation sort of petered off (Captured bin laden or not, destroyed terror bases across the planet or not), he has now regained the focus over Iraq. With that all the goodwill generated has eroded.

Thanks for letting me interrupt...
Regards,
Sudhir

[This message has been edited by Sudhir Iyer (03-12-2003 11:56 AM).]

Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


67 posted 03-12-2003 12:15 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

No idea?

If you touch my family, I will kill you, you little wanna be.

I'm an American. You are a wannabe.
Grow up!
Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


68 posted 03-12-2003 12:24 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Sorry,

I believe in America.
Opeth
Member Elite
since 12-13-2001
Posts 2224
The Ravines


69 posted 03-12-2003 12:27 PM       View Profile for Opeth   Email Opeth   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Opeth

"Now who should jail them? Or where should they be deported to?
Jailed in Iraq; or Deported to USA OR Jailed in USA, or Deported to Iraq"


~ Of course I am speaking on the terms that these protesters return to U.S. soil, whereupon they should either be prosecuted or deported...and if they were in Iraq while protesting against the government, especially in a war time situation, which we in the U.S. are, howebeit a new kind of war - where the enemy is or may no longer be a nation and its government, but a network of terrorists who are aided and abetted by numerous nations, then they should be deported to that country.

It is not American, for Americans to go to foreign soil to protest against the American government, which to the foreigner's eye and in reality, against America itself. To say that it is not, is to say that oral sex isn't sex, it is to say that being alone with someone in the same room isn't being alone because there are people outside of the room...in other words, it is illogical and playing on semantics.

I am all for Americans protesting the American government HERE on our soil...that is a constitutional right, but to leave this country and SIDE with a nation, especially a nation that is an enemy to our country is reprehensible...and it makes me sick.

Opeth
Member Elite
since 12-13-2001
Posts 2224
The Ravines


70 posted 03-12-2003 12:29 PM       View Profile for Opeth   Email Opeth   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Opeth

"If you touch my family, I will kill you, you little wanna be."

~ Say what? Why are bringing "family" into this matter? Me thinks you are about to have an emotional breakdown, like HAL told Dave, "Take a stress pill."

"I'm an American. You are a wannabe.
Grow up!"


~ Resorting to name calling? And you are telling me to grow up?  Laughable!
Opeth
Member Elite
since 12-13-2001
Posts 2224
The Ravines


71 posted 03-12-2003 12:32 PM       View Profile for Opeth   Email Opeth   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Opeth

"...you little wanna be."

~ I bet I'm bigger than you. So, there [insert raspberry].

Local Rebel
Member Ascendant
since 12-21-1999
Posts 5742
Southern Abstentia


72 posted 03-12-2003 02:11 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

Time out!

Aiding and abetting the enemy is treason and should be prosecuted.

Standing in the way (ie. voluntary human shields) of U.S. action by U.S. citizens is certainly a good case for treason.

Is this what you're referring to Opeth?  If it is.. I agree.

On the other hand -- Brad is an expatriate -- that doesn't abrogate his right to free speech.

On the third hand -- if a U.S. citizen protests to the point of shutting down U.S. Military operations or bases here in the U.S. -- that's also a breach and is possibly aiding and abbetting.

[This message has been edited by Local Rebel (03-13-2003 01:04 AM).]

Denise
Moderator
Member Seraphic
since 08-22-99
Posts 23002


73 posted 03-12-2003 02:20 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Winston, I wasn't calling your nationality into question. I believed you when you said you were American, although surprised at the time due to your style of spelling of certain words, (I was just using favour as a "for instance", I never said that you had ever actually used that particular word)which is decidedly not the American style (totally unrelated, I might add, to typos and regional bug name preference, but then I'm sure you really do realize that already) and was just wondering if you had been educated abroad, that's all. Is that not a straight question?

I like coffee but not enough to travel that far just for a cup. Thanks anyway.

Balladeer
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


74 posted 03-12-2003 04:09 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Sudhir, I have always respected you and still do and I can only imagine what the prospect of war means to you and your family. My thoughts are with you.

Having said that, however, I must say that your statement is one of the most irresponsible pieces of writing I have seen.

"And just for the sake of mentioning: Long before the most unfortunate 11 september tragedy; around the time when the elections results of Bush being the president came out; most Europeans had openly begun counting down the days when the Bush led US govt. would try to find a reason to attack Iraq. "

"It would have happened earlier; but most unfortunately 9/11 tragedy happened; that was a personal setback for Bush too, since he had a new issue at hand and couldn't yet look towards Iraq"

MOST Europeans??? How many did you talk to out of the millions that are there? I doubt there would have been much news like that in the major newspapers or our news services would have gladly picked it up. This is certainly the first I've heard of that opinion and I would really like to know if you have a basis for that statement....
 
 Post A Reply Post New Topic   Go to the Next Oldest/Previous Topic Return to Topic Page Go to the Next Newest Topic 
All times are ET (US) Top
  User Options
>> Discussion >> The Alley >> Bush bashing & warmongering   [ Page: 1  2  3  4  ] Format for Better Printing EMail to a Friend Not Available
Print Send ECard

 

pipTalk Home Page | Main Poetry Forums

How to Join | Member's Area / Help | Private Library | Search | Contact Us | Today's Topics | Login
Discussion | Tech Talk | Archives | Sanctuary



© Passions in Poetry and netpoets.com 1998-2013
All Poetry and Prose is copyrighted by the individual authors