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What am I?

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Christopher
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Member Rara Avis
since 08-02-99
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Purgatorial Incarceration


25 posted 12-24-2002 04:37 PM       View Profile for Christopher   Email Christopher   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Christopher

isn't it just as shallow (if not more) to call someone shallow for their own interests?

why isn't it shallow for you to be interested in poetry instead of the label on the back of your jeans?

CloudedDreams
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since 11-23-2002
Posts 210
My Fantasy Realm


26 posted 12-24-2002 08:14 PM       View Profile for CloudedDreams   Email CloudedDreams   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit CloudedDreams's Home Page   View IP for CloudedDreams

I am not saying that they are shallow 'cause of their interests I am saying they are shallow because they wanto to be perfect, which is humanly impossible, and further, they want everyone else to be perfect.

(has anyone noticed the subject has changed around??? ^.^)
Christopher
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Member Rara Avis
since 08-02-99
Posts 9130
Purgatorial Incarceration


27 posted 12-24-2002 08:39 PM       View Profile for Christopher   Email Christopher   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Christopher

aren't you shallow for not wanting to be perfect?

all i'm saying is that it seems people are trying to judge others by stereotyping them and placing assumptions not only on their motivations, but their beliefs as well. there is no possible way for you to look at a person and know that they believe everyone else should try to be perfect. perhaps you're falling victim to that own mindset by suggesting that they should expect less for themselves.
Brad
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since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


28 posted 12-24-2002 10:16 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

I agree with what Christopher said -- almost.

The subject hasn't turned around at all, the only difference is that you made a claim about 'them' and many have tried to point out that you are doing the same thing as 'them'.

Some say that people don't judge you by the way you look.

I say they do.

I say you judge others by the way they look.

Regarding perfection, I don't understand what that means here.

Christopher
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Member Rara Avis
since 08-02-99
Posts 9130
Purgatorial Incarceration


29 posted 12-24-2002 10:58 PM       View Profile for Christopher   Email Christopher   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Christopher

Of course we judge a person based on what we see.

What we judge, though, is different one to the next.
Ron
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since 05-19-99
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Michigan, US


30 posted 12-25-2002 12:50 AM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

How many of you are good at remembering names? When ever I face a new classroom, especially a large one, I really have to struggle to remember everyone's names. I try to repeat the name several times during the few minutes I allocate to introductions, try to associate it with something easier to remember, and still I struggle. I think its important enough to continue trying, but should that person take another class from me, say two or three months hence, there isn't a snowball's chance I'm going to remember their name.

Anyone good at remembering faces? I have a slight (and somewhat strange) hearing impairment and apparently got into the habit as a kid of watching people's mouths when they talk. It's not quite reading lips, but it does better help me attach meaning to their words. Unfortunately, it makes me really bad at remembering faces. I can have a waitress take my order and two minutes later I have no idea who to flag down should I want to change it. In one eye and out the other.

Do you remember the color of a stranger's skin or hair or eyes? Do you remember what they were wearing? What they carried? If you bumped into someone on the street, what would you remember? If you were eyewitness to a crime, what would you see?

Surprisingly, there is one specific thing that virtually everyone remembers. The answer is only obvious, I think, when you hear it. We all seem to be very unequivocal about gender. You can forget everything else about a person ten seconds after you meet them, but you'll always remember whether they were male or female. It's the first thing we see and the last thing we forget.

In this very simple thing, I think there's something very important revealed about the human condition. Do we judge others based on what we see? You bet your sweet petunias we do. On about a thousand different levels.
CloudedDreams
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since 11-23-2002
Posts 210
My Fantasy Realm


31 posted 12-25-2002 04:11 PM       View Profile for CloudedDreams   Email CloudedDreams   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit CloudedDreams's Home Page   View IP for CloudedDreams

I don't look at a person and assume these things. I have KNOWN people like this. they are everywhere. At school , at church, I mean, I don't judge by simply looking. I judge after I know them. But I am wrong anyway, because whose right is it for ME to judge, or any of you perhaps??
Brad
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since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


32 posted 12-25-2002 04:52 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

quote:
I look at some people, and all I see is repitition. I believe that some ppl do dress the way they do is so they don't fall into the category "Just like everyone else" that is me.


Not only is this judgement of the way others look, it's a nice way to feel better about yourself because of the way you look.

But what's interesting here is your use of 'know'. This is the second time in two days that someone has used that word as an emphasis, a way of asserting knowledge, but what is it really to say that one knows another except the ability to judge them, to predict what they are going to do next, and to decide whether they are worth your time or not.

Judging isn't a right, it's a necessity, and there are good ways to do it and bad ways to do it.

CloudedDreams
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since 11-23-2002
Posts 210
My Fantasy Realm


33 posted 12-25-2002 06:15 PM       View Profile for CloudedDreams   Email CloudedDreams   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit CloudedDreams's Home Page   View IP for CloudedDreams

::Cries:: OK OK YOU WIN!!

::crawls into corner:: just leave me alone....

LOL
thanx for the debate, but I am gracefully (I think) accepting defeat

::bows head::
HAve a nice day!!
Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


34 posted 12-25-2002 06:35 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Ah, c'mon, I was just getting started.

My real target is the individual/society myth.

Can I go after that?

Please, pretty please?



CloudedDreams
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since 11-23-2002
Posts 210
My Fantasy Realm


35 posted 12-26-2002 10:39 AM       View Profile for CloudedDreams   Email CloudedDreams   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit CloudedDreams's Home Page   View IP for CloudedDreams

ok....but don't kill me in the process...lol
hush
Senior Member
since 05-27-2001
Posts 1693
Ohio, USA


36 posted 12-27-2002 03:00 AM       View Profile for hush   Email hush   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for hush

'I mean who wants to hang around with someone that talks about just how long it took them to do their hair or where they got their lastest set of nails done.'

Do you know how many people I've heard go ON and ON and ON!!! about some stupid $60 skirt they just bought at Hot Topics, or a SWEET!!! new [insert popular rebellius band] t-shirt at The Shed (local outlet for 'kewl' counter-culture stuff) for 25 bucks? How many hair-bleach-and-sye-neon-color stories I've heard? Just because it's your style doesn't make it any less shallow- or manybe we could re-reverse roles, and say that just because their style is different yours, it isn't any more shallow.
CloudedDreams
Member
since 11-23-2002
Posts 210
My Fantasy Realm


37 posted 12-27-2002 10:20 AM       View Profile for CloudedDreams   Email CloudedDreams   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit CloudedDreams's Home Page   View IP for CloudedDreams

it's not the style, it's the way the people act. Whether their punk or preps, if all they care about is how 'cool' they look in that certain group and how much $$ they spent or places they got it at, that is shallow, even more when they look over ppl who say, shop at walmart and have no tatoos, or no makeup.
hush
Senior Member
since 05-27-2001
Posts 1693
Ohio, USA


38 posted 12-27-2002 11:25 AM       View Profile for hush   Email hush   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for hush

WHat about the people who are proud to ahve purchased their wares at WlaMart or Salvation Army?

"Look at the sweet punk stuff I found at this unlikely place..."

or

"Wearing secondhand vintage makes me cooler than you... I ahven't fallen to the corporate machine..."

On and on...

The point is that no one is impervious to the "shallow" condition you describe. Because, you know what? When I find an awesome three dollar skirt at a secondhand store, do you know what I do? Wear it to my best friend's house and say "Check it out! It only cost me three bucks!"

Shallow's an easy name to toss out at someone, but it's hard to duck when it comes flying back.
CloudedDreams
Member
since 11-23-2002
Posts 210
My Fantasy Realm


39 posted 12-27-2002 08:23 PM       View Profile for CloudedDreams   Email CloudedDreams   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit CloudedDreams's Home Page   View IP for CloudedDreams

okay......well what if you would tell someone that you can't stand them because they have cheap clothes, or they son't like your brand? I've seen it happen.....

Yes there will be tommorrow, but will you be there to greet it?

hush
Senior Member
since 05-27-2001
Posts 1693
Ohio, USA


40 posted 12-28-2002 01:56 PM       View Profile for hush   Email hush   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for hush

Yeah, me too.

"Oh my god, look at that stupid Aeropostle shirt. That's just another Abercrombie and Fitch. People who wear that crap are so stupid."

You think it only goes one way? My point is that you can't stereotype without falling into a stereotypical category yourself. The best way (IMO) to handle these situations is on an individual basis- not everyone who wears expensive name brand clotes is critical of those who don't. Not everyone who shops at Hot Topic is critical of those who don't.

We learn to expect a certain behavior based on what someone looks like, or a rudimentary first-impression of their behaviors. We also attribute causes to their behavior. Sometimes we attribute situational causes (I bet her family puts a lot of emphasis on appearances [or, depending on which group we're talking about here] I bet her family prides fitting in/standing out.)

And sometimes, as we see in this thread, we attribute behaviors to personality (She's like that because she's shallow.) This fundamental attribution error puts  us somewhere higher than the person we're judging- it's easy to make calls about someone that make them somehow less than we are.

Instead of writing them off, why not try to understand where they are coming from? Explain where you are coming from to them? The favor might be returned.
Opeth
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since 12-13-2001
Posts 2224
The Ravines


41 posted 12-28-2002 02:18 PM       View Profile for Opeth   Email Opeth   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Opeth

Well said, Hush. Take myself for example, I am a navy veteran of over 21 years, I keep my hair within regulations, wear a uniform practically 5 days a week, yet I listen to music that is considered too radical even to the young sailors that I work with, and my faovoite show is The Simpsons of which I own a t-shirt depicting Ralph picking his nose, not to mention I have Ralph, The Comic Book Guy, Mr. Burns and Homer decals on the back of my car.

I am not this way to impress or for that matter not to impress. I do not try to fit in or not fit in.

I am just being myself.

[This message has been edited by Opeth (12-28-2002 02:57 PM).]

CloudedDreams
Member
since 11-23-2002
Posts 210
My Fantasy Realm


42 posted 12-28-2002 02:55 PM       View Profile for CloudedDreams   Email CloudedDreams   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit CloudedDreams's Home Page   View IP for CloudedDreams

I guess it is human nature at times to jump to conclusions. We all need to work on what we think when we see someone. We all can't assume things when we see them, but many of us do anyway. Maybe we should think ahead and really know the person before we say they are too 'preppy" or "punky" or "poor"
When we do that, maybe the opinions other people have about us will change...

Yes there will be tommorrow, but will you be there to greet it?

Opeth
Member Elite
since 12-13-2001
Posts 2224
The Ravines


43 posted 12-28-2002 02:58 PM       View Profile for Opeth   Email Opeth   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Opeth

But remember, first impressions make a difference when one interviews for a quality job.
CloudedDreams
Member
since 11-23-2002
Posts 210
My Fantasy Realm


44 posted 12-28-2002 03:28 PM       View Profile for CloudedDreams   Email CloudedDreams   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit CloudedDreams's Home Page   View IP for CloudedDreams

i never said anything againstjob interviews. Yes, that is one important thing that we need to put aside our stubbornness and meet guidelines
hush
Senior Member
since 05-27-2001
Posts 1693
Ohio, USA


45 posted 12-29-2002 09:35 PM       View Profile for hush   Email hush   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for hush

'We all can't assume things when we see them, but many of us do anyway.'

Do you assume the sky will be blue in the morning?

Do you assume that gravity will hold you to the ground?

Do you assume that your family will be in the house when you get up?

We naturally chunk information to keep things from getting too confusing. Can you imagine what life would be like if you were surprised everytime you turned a faucet handle and water came out of it?

With people, it's just that there's more options than on and off. It doesn't change the tendancy. The point is coming to terms with that, allowing yourself a certain leeway with stereotyping, and leaving room to accept that those stereotypes aren't always necessarily true.
CloudedDreams
Member
since 11-23-2002
Posts 210
My Fantasy Realm


46 posted 12-30-2002 01:05 PM       View Profile for CloudedDreams   Email CloudedDreams   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit CloudedDreams's Home Page   View IP for CloudedDreams

::sobs:: OK!!! ok.... ::sniffs:; you can stop killing me now! lol  
This is somewhat fun... but Iknow I am not getting anywhere...
Opeth
Member Elite
since 12-13-2001
Posts 2224
The Ravines


47 posted 12-30-2002 01:12 PM       View Profile for Opeth   Email Opeth   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Opeth

Clouded one, just be yourself and treat others as you would have them treat you.

Don't sweat how others behave. You can't change the hearts of others anyway, unless they want to change.

have a great new years
CloudedDreams
Member
since 11-23-2002
Posts 210
My Fantasy Realm


48 posted 12-30-2002 01:50 PM       View Profile for CloudedDreams   Email CloudedDreams   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit CloudedDreams's Home Page   View IP for CloudedDreams

thanx.. you all have been great....I guess it's finally over... I am saving this for some reason.. maybe because this is the most I 've gotten out of a post. Lol. HAve a great new year!

Yes there will be tommorrow, but will you be there to greet it?

hush
Senior Member
since 05-27-2001
Posts 1693
Ohio, USA


49 posted 12-31-2002 02:31 PM       View Profile for hush   Email hush   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for hush

You too.
 
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